I liked the idea of the deck so I gave it a try last night. I only had time to get in one match though (against a sort of Mardu Control deck). Luckily, I ended up winning. Here's a few thoughts I had:
Too many lands? -- At times I felt like I was getting flooded in my draws and seeing that the most mana-expensive card in the list is 3cmc, I'm not sure you need 24 lands. I think I cut a Plains while sideboarding and I think its possible to cut a few more. Like I said, I only got in one match so it could very well just have been "luck of the draw".
Fragile/weak creatures -- Yes, I get the point of the deck is to turn Lone Rider into a 4/4 Trampler, but a few times I was stuck with it just as a 1/1. The First Strike helps but my opponent would sometimes just hold up a Shambling Vent or keep their 3/2 back to block so I couldn't even ping them for a tiny bit of damage. Anything 1/2 or stronger can just sit back and play defense against most our creatures and a Languish or Radiant Flames can undo everything. I was able to get Ayli onto the battlefield and even use her Exile ability once but she was easily Fiery Tempered shortly after. I think I only saw one Serene Steward and I think she would've helped a lot in pumping my guys a bit bigger if I could've gotten her going -- which leads me to..
More instant-speed lifegain? -- At one point in the game I was sitting in a board stall where I couldn't really attack favorably unless I could get my Serene Steward to buff my 4/4. Unfortunately, the only type of lifegain I had was through my lifelink attacker -- but my opponent also had 4 first strike damage that would connect before I could get the buff. At times I was hoping that I had some sort of combat trick like Tandem Tactics in my hand. Maybe a good addition?
More Madness -- I was very satisfied with Peace of Mind but I was hoping I could get more use out of it. I did include a Voldaren Pariah in my sideboard that I brought in. I think she is a good addition to the deck even though I didn't have a chance to transform her (she still holds that threat)
Still, I really liked the direction of the deck and I know its still WIP. Here are a few cards that I used for sideboarding or I think could fit well in the deck going forward:
Anguished Unmaking -- the life loss here doesn't really worry us too much. Grasp of Darkness -- Hopefully an obvious inclusion. The "go-to black removal" nowadays. For stuff we can't attack through Drana's Emissary -- Evasion and Lifegain Tandem Tactics -- Combat trick and lifegain Voldaren Pariah -- Evasion and a potential finisher Grotesque Mutation -- The Mardu deck played it against me. I think this could be a good combat trick with Lone Rider both before and after it flips Malakir Familiar -- Evasion and deathtouch if you need to really stop an attacker. Lone Rider's First Strike Lifelink can pump the Familiar every time they swing in together. If you add a Tandem Tactics on top, it'll hit as a 5/5 flying deathtouch-er
Thanks for testing!
Tandem Tactics seems like an auto include due to just how many amazing plays you can make with it (and how it gives you a better chance vs beaters).
Anguished Unmaking could definitely help, although I'm thinking it might be better in the sideboard.
Grasp is good, but double black is a bit iffy consistency-wise, and Pariah runs into the same problem.
Malakir is essentially a worse version of Steward... but it might be worth it if the deck can't consistently get life-plus.
Grotesque is definitely something to think about, especially with Sanitarium Skeleton...
Drana's Emissary just looks underwhelming for its CMC.
I'm actually pretty sure the land count is fine seeing as manlands are pricy to cast, so is the Sanitarium Skeleton looping (you can also pitch useless lands for Falkenrath/PoM), and, along with that, with these modifications, the deck will have a higher curve.
I'll go with these changes for now:
-2 Swamp.
+2 Plains.
+4 Tandem Tactics.
-4 Shambling Goblin.
+1 Anguished Unmaking.
-1 Alms of the Vein.
EDIT: for the low Madness count, there really isn't much I can do about it without turning this deck into Midrange (almost all Madness cards for Black have a CMC of 3+, and white has none to begin with). It's currently an aggro deck.
So this has been a deck I have been working on for a few weeks. When I saw your post, it forced me to register and post my first post here on Salvation.
The deck started out as a way to best abuse Lone Rider. After a lot of testing, the deck ended up becoming almost a draw go madness control.
Ojutai's Command is like the super combo piece recurring Lone Rider and gaining life at the end of the opponents turn, then swinging with a 4/4 lifelinker the following turn. At first I didn't know where to go with the deck since it fell behind if it didn't draw either a discard engine or a 2 drop creature. THEN it hit me!!!! There is a 2 drop creature that IS a discard engine. However, both Lone Rider and Jace are not the endgame of the deck. From Under the Floorboards ends the game everytime when it is madnessed out at the end of the opponents turn.
Alas, I have stopped working on the deck since I do not own any Jace VP's and I cannot seem to invest in them when they rotate soon. Jace truly is the key to the deck.
Wow... You did pretty much the exact opposite I did XD.
You basically went full control, using all the draw power to keep the deck consistent despite Lone Rider being the only wincon.
This definitely looks like something that could work, though ;).
Nice idea, really too bad Origins is rotating out; So many decks are going to be killed/severely weakened when this happens and I can only hope Kaladesh will be at least be able to replace some of the amazing cards that were in that set.
So you can see, it's not just Lone Rider (flip) rocking life link for the deck, but a ton of creatures in the deck. I typically don't put combat tricks in my decks, but something has to keep creatures alive in the early turn long enough to get a Loan Rider transform as well as facilitating that transformation.
A large portion of the rest of the deck seeks to take advantage of gaining life or having a high life total. Defiant Bloodlord practically lets you combo out if the game is still going on that long. Damnable Pact lets you completely refill your hand and not have to worry about the life loss thanks to how high your life total will be.
I like madness in this deck as a way to make it more efficient, but not being completely reliant on it. If I have to hard cast a Voldaren Pariah, it's not the end of the world.
Your midrange list seems pretty nice, but although you can VERY consistently gain life, you don't get a whole lot out of doing so.
Something like Serene Steward (which I play) could be really useful here.
Otherwise, yes this totally seems viable, and more so than my original list (it's aggro, but isn't playing enough 1drop/OP cards to actually make it worthwhile/competitive, essentially making it a crappy version of MW Humans).
Pariah, despite being quite good, is a little iffy simply because it requires A LOT of black to make it consistent.
Unnatural is a great addition to keep the power cards alive.
Damnable Pact gives this deck very good lategame (along with lots of lifegain to survive aggro).
Nice list ;).
I look at Voldaren Pariah (flip) as less of a madness aggro card and a midgame card that breaks late game stalemate. If it happens to come down on turn 3, great. if not, no big deal.
In the current standard, just gaining a ton of life is normally enough to turn off your opponents. I don't know if you've seen the mono-blue prison deck being played with Prism Ring, but just the fast rise of the life total can show the opponent they brought the wrong deck. I'm not sure Serene Steward is the right card to take advantage of all the life. I don't know what is, though. There are a lot of Vamp allies that trigger a drain from life gain triggers. They could be a possibility. I dunno.
Kind of sticking to the theme of the thread (with just a tad bit of Madness, Turbo, and Lifegain):
I've always been a fan of Defiant Bloodlord (in the decklist you posted above) and was thinking of how to "turbo" him out (since he costs so much - 7 mana ). The best combo I could come up with is with Madnessing out Twins of Maurer Estate, then Eldritch Evolution on them to 'cheat' out the Bloodlord. Once he's out then we can use the Retreats' Landfall abilities as well as Nissa's Renewal for lots of drain. Heres a VERY rough list I put together:
Again, it is a very rough draft of a possible Bloodlord list that I put together in a few minutes. It could potentially cheat out Bloodlord as quickly as turn 4 but contains other ways to get to him out fast with Explosive Vegetations. If worst comes to worst, then we can just use the Retreats to pump our smaller guys and use the lifegain to stay alive. I think the 'combo' is a bit weak if we can't find all the pieces -- Eldritch Evolution only really gets value if you can cast it on the Twins or a vampire token so I'd imagine it'd be a 'dead card' most of the time or you could discard it to the Heir or Call the Bloodline
8 Swamp
8 Plains
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Shambling Vent
4 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
4 Asylum Visitor
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Lone Rider
4 Serene Steward
4 Sanitarium Skeleton
1 Anguished Unmaking
3 Alms of the Vein
4 Tandem Tactics
4 Peace of Mind
Ratios:
7 Madness.
8 Discard.
8 Life-Plus.
11 (+4 Shambling Vent) Lifegain.
4 Floaters.
Too many lands? -- At times I felt like I was getting flooded in my draws and seeing that the most mana-expensive card in the list is 3cmc, I'm not sure you need 24 lands. I think I cut a Plains while sideboarding and I think its possible to cut a few more. Like I said, I only got in one match so it could very well just have been "luck of the draw".
Fragile/weak creatures -- Yes, I get the point of the deck is to turn Lone Rider into a 4/4 Trampler, but a few times I was stuck with it just as a 1/1. The First Strike helps but my opponent would sometimes just hold up a Shambling Vent or keep their 3/2 back to block so I couldn't even ping them for a tiny bit of damage. Anything 1/2 or stronger can just sit back and play defense against most our creatures and a Languish or Radiant Flames can undo everything. I was able to get Ayli onto the battlefield and even use her Exile ability once but she was easily Fiery Tempered shortly after. I think I only saw one Serene Steward and I think she would've helped a lot in pumping my guys a bit bigger if I could've gotten her going -- which leads me to..
More instant-speed lifegain? -- At one point in the game I was sitting in a board stall where I couldn't really attack favorably unless I could get my Serene Steward to buff my 4/4. Unfortunately, the only type of lifegain I had was through my lifelink attacker -- but my opponent also had 4 first strike damage that would connect before I could get the buff. At times I was hoping that I had some sort of combat trick like Tandem Tactics in my hand. Maybe a good addition?
More Madness -- I was very satisfied with Peace of Mind but I was hoping I could get more use out of it. I did include a Voldaren Pariah in my sideboard that I brought in. I think she is a good addition to the deck even though I didn't have a chance to transform her (she still holds that threat)
Still, I really liked the direction of the deck and I know its still WIP. Here are a few cards that I used for sideboarding or I think could fit well in the deck going forward:
Anguished Unmaking -- the life loss here doesn't really worry us too much.
Grasp of Darkness -- Hopefully an obvious inclusion. The "go-to black removal" nowadays. For stuff we can't attack through
Drana's Emissary -- Evasion and Lifegain
Tandem Tactics -- Combat trick and lifegain
Voldaren Pariah -- Evasion and a potential finisher
Grotesque Mutation -- The Mardu deck played it against me. I think this could be a good combat trick with Lone Rider both before and after it flips
Malakir Familiar -- Evasion and deathtouch if you need to really stop an attacker. Lone Rider's First Strike Lifelink can pump the Familiar every time they swing in together. If you add a Tandem Tactics on top, it'll hit as a 5/5 flying deathtouch-er
Tandem Tactics seems like an auto include due to just how many amazing plays you can make with it (and how it gives you a better chance vs beaters).
Anguished Unmaking could definitely help, although I'm thinking it might be better in the sideboard.
Grasp is good, but double black is a bit iffy consistency-wise, and Pariah runs into the same problem.
Malakir is essentially a worse version of Steward... but it might be worth it if the deck can't consistently get life-plus.
Grotesque is definitely something to think about, especially with Sanitarium Skeleton...
Drana's Emissary just looks underwhelming for its CMC.
I'm actually pretty sure the land count is fine seeing as manlands are pricy to cast, so is the Sanitarium Skeleton looping (you can also pitch useless lands for Falkenrath/PoM), and, along with that, with these modifications, the deck will have a higher curve.
I'll go with these changes for now:
-2 Swamp.
+2 Plains.
+4 Tandem Tactics.
-4 Shambling Goblin.
+1 Anguished Unmaking.
-1 Alms of the Vein.
EDIT: for the low Madness count, there really isn't much I can do about it without turning this deck into Midrange (almost all Madness cards for Black have a CMC of 3+, and white has none to begin with). It's currently an aggro deck.
The deck started out as a way to best abuse Lone Rider. After a lot of testing, the deck ended up becoming almost a draw go madness control.
Here is my list:
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
2 Shambling Vent
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Prairie Stream
1 Choked Estuary
6 Swamp
4 Plains
1 Island
Creatures (11)
4 Lone Rider
2 Asylum Visitor
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Ojutai's Command
3 Peace of Mind
2 Collective Brutality
3 Murderous Compulsion
2 Alms of the Vein
2 From Under the Floorboards
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Planar Outburst
1 Read the Bones
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Ojutai's Command is like the super combo piece recurring Lone Rider and gaining life at the end of the opponents turn, then swinging with a 4/4 lifelinker the following turn. At first I didn't know where to go with the deck since it fell behind if it didn't draw either a discard engine or a 2 drop creature. THEN it hit me!!!! There is a 2 drop creature that IS a discard engine. However, both Lone Rider and Jace are not the endgame of the deck. From Under the Floorboards ends the game everytime when it is madnessed out at the end of the opponents turn.
One of my favorite plays have been:
Discard Lone Rider to Peace of Mind and gain 3 life, then cast Ojutai's Command countering opponents creature and returning Lone Rider and transforming him.
Alas, I have stopped working on the deck since I do not own any Jace VP's and I cannot seem to invest in them when they rotate soon. Jace truly is the key to the deck.
You basically went full control, using all the draw power to keep the deck consistent despite Lone Rider being the only wincon.
This definitely looks like something that could work, though ;).
Nice idea, really too bad Origins is rotating out; So many decks are going to be killed/severely weakened when this happens and I can only hope Kaladesh will be at least be able to replace some of the amazing cards that were in that set.
2 Defiant Bloodlord
4 Indulgent Aristocrat
3 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Lone Rider
4 Vampire Cutthroat
2 Voldaren Pariah
4 Alms of the Vein
2 Damnable Pact
2 From Under the Floorboards
Instants 6
3 Coat with Venom
3 Unnatural Endurance
2 Peace of Mind
Lands 25
25 Lands
So you can see, it's not just Lone Rider (flip) rocking life link for the deck, but a ton of creatures in the deck. I typically don't put combat tricks in my decks, but something has to keep creatures alive in the early turn long enough to get a Loan Rider transform as well as facilitating that transformation.
A large portion of the rest of the deck seeks to take advantage of gaining life or having a high life total. Defiant Bloodlord practically lets you combo out if the game is still going on that long. Damnable Pact lets you completely refill your hand and not have to worry about the life loss thanks to how high your life total will be.
I like madness in this deck as a way to make it more efficient, but not being completely reliant on it. If I have to hard cast a Voldaren Pariah, it's not the end of the world.
Something like Serene Steward (which I play) could be really useful here.
Otherwise, yes this totally seems viable, and more so than my original list (it's aggro, but isn't playing enough 1drop/OP cards to actually make it worthwhile/competitive, essentially making it a crappy version of MW Humans).
Pariah, despite being quite good, is a little iffy simply because it requires A LOT of black to make it consistent.
Unnatural is a great addition to keep the power cards alive.
Damnable Pact gives this deck very good lategame (along with lots of lifegain to survive aggro).
Nice list ;).
In the current standard, just gaining a ton of life is normally enough to turn off your opponents. I don't know if you've seen the mono-blue prison deck being played with Prism Ring, but just the fast rise of the life total can show the opponent they brought the wrong deck. I'm not sure Serene Steward is the right card to take advantage of all the life. I don't know what is, though. There are a lot of Vamp allies that trigger a drain from life gain triggers. They could be a possibility. I dunno.
I've always been a fan of Defiant Bloodlord (in the decklist you posted above) and was thinking of how to "turbo" him out (since he costs so much - 7 mana ). The best combo I could come up with is with Madnessing out Twins of Maurer Estate, then Eldritch Evolution on them to 'cheat' out the Bloodlord. Once he's out then we can use the Retreats' Landfall abilities as well as Nissa's Renewal for lots of drain. Heres a VERY rough list I put together:
4 Heir of Falkenrath
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Twins of Maurer Estate
2 Defiant Bloodlord
1 Call the Bloodline
4 Eldritch Evolution
3 Retreat to Hagra
3 Retreat to Kazandu
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Nissa's Renewal
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Llanowar Wastes
11 Forest
6 Swamp
Again, it is a very rough draft of a possible Bloodlord list that I put together in a few minutes. It could potentially cheat out Bloodlord as quickly as turn 4 but contains other ways to get to him out fast with Explosive Vegetations. If worst comes to worst, then we can just use the Retreats to pump our smaller guys and use the lifegain to stay alive. I think the 'combo' is a bit weak if we can't find all the pieces -- Eldritch Evolution only really gets value if you can cast it on the Twins or a vampire token so I'd imagine it'd be a 'dead card' most of the time or you could discard it to the Heir or Call the Bloodline