Hi guys,
I really want to use this deck but I am not sure how to successfully pilot it.
My friend wants me to use the Bridge Dredge deck but I think that deck will be hated after regionals.
Anyways, what are the best tips on using this deck?
Well, one thing that I just found out yesterday is that this deck can wipe the floor with NarcoBridge. I don't know if it was created with that in mind, but it's a very good idea. Your transmute tutors Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations will do some damage to them, most particularly the former. It lets you take out their reanimation options, dredgers, and more importantly, this thing. Machinations is less effective, though I have taken out a couple of Bridge from Belows with it.
It's pretty hard to pilot when you start, but I just thought of it as some sort of Dragonstorm minus the U, and more tutors to get what you need. After a couple of solitaire games (most of them doing 18 on turn 4, sad :-/), I finally figured out how to play it.
As for the manabase issue, I think I'll stick with the basic land thing for now UNTIL we get a glimpse of Xth. The Terramorphic Expanse s pretty good, it lets you get whatever color you're lacking in your hand, or just simply whatever the hell you want. Deck-thinning, too, which means a bit higher chance to draw what you want. Even if you have the tutors necessary to win, a better chance to draw stuff makes it really, really sweet.
Persecute is a pretty hard pain in the neck in Game 1s. If it hits you, you're dead. Ignorant Bliss boarded in should take care of that, as well as stuff like Lost Hours.
Just make sure you in NO WAY WHATSOEVER board in bottled cloister if there is any sign that they might be able to destroy it during their turn. Cuz then you're F*^%ed, and have no hand.
You should probably Accellerate into one of those as soon as possible. Also, helps you dig through your deck since it lets you draw an extra card each turn. So yeah, definately would help your MBrack game a lot.
Hey Extarbags, i've been having trouble comboing before the 5th turn with this deck recently, for like the last 10+ games. Is this just coincidence or have you found that the deck slows itself down too (ie mediocre hands)?
I may just be playing it wrong, but i dont think so... anyway you're the most experienced pilot of this deck (i assume) so i was just wondering if you could give some examples of good, mediocre, and poor hands that you've had and how they played out.
Also, how often do you mulligan?
Sure. First off, I mulligan very rarely; the hand has to be a ton of land or like all tutors for me to ditch it, usually. So, here's a hand worth mulliganing:
This kind is the most common type of bad hand this deck gets. You can still play it, because you have a Grapeshot already, but you have no Pyromancer's Swath in sight. Still, keep this hand, and hope to draw one of the eight Swaths in the deck as soon as possible. As soon as you do, your fortunes will change, and it really shouldn't take that long to get one. In the meantime, you can grab a second Grapeshot and turn Infernal Tutor into another Rite of Flame.
This is a winning hand, but it's a slow hand. You need two transmutes if you don't draw a combo piece naturally, which lines you up for a turn five win. However, turn five isn't that slow in the scheme of things, and you do at least have the means to procure everything you need.
Note that I didn't go overboard, and you still need to tutor for Pyromancer's Swath with this hand, but the Lotus Bloom lines you up for a decisive fourth turn win nearly always. Also note that this hand gets even better with multiple Lotus Blooms
Of course the most of times you can make 8 mana (2 Swaths on Shot), you have already played enough songs or rites (maybe if lotus bloom was played last turn and now you draw shot)
Also I've found myself needing more mana, how many lands should I run, right now I'm at 19?
Of course the most of times you can make 8 mana (2 Swaths on Shot), you have already played enough songs or rites (maybe if lotus bloom was played last turn and now you draw shot)
That's how it would usually be, a situation where you already have a bloom or a pile of land on the board but not enough cards in hand for whatever reason.
Also I've found myself needing more mana, how many lands should I run, right now I'm at 19?
Twenty.
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I run twenty as well.
My current record in the tourney with this deck is 3-1-1, so hoping to take it to T8.
Only loss was to gruul.
Anyways, i RARELY mulligan with this deck. Usually, it gets a workable hand and goes off quickly.
However, Im worried what will happen after Xth comes in. Will we get seething? If not, im thinking were pretty much dead.
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Quote from Zombiemachine »
Treefolk most probably eat dwarves, hence their absence.
:D:D:D
Quote from MajoraX »
So 9th Edition just stuck its middle finger up at Christianity.
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
I run twenty as well.
My current record in the tourney with this deck is 3-1-1, so hoping to take it to T8.
Only loss was to gruul.
Anyways, i RARELY mulligan with this deck. Usually, it gets a workable hand and goes off quickly.
However, Im worried what will happen after Xth comes in. Will we get seething? If not, im thinking were pretty much dead.
I think Seething Song will be returning, but meh, I'm not too worried about it. This deck is dead as disco when Ravnica leaves anyway (unless it somehow becomes good in Extended, which seems unlikely to say the least), and that's only a few months after Tenth comes in.
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Hey, there's over 5 months until Ravnica rotates. You can still win many tourneys with it. :]
But anyway, I've been playing this deck for a while with MWS, and I'm winning most of the time. I run 22 lands, because when I ran 20, I always mana screwed. :/
Btw, is Confidant worth considering in this deck, or should I sell them now while I get a good price of them?
PS. I'm only lacking 1 Swath and 2 Tutors (and 3 Darknesses, meh).
I just found out that against Vore or any other deck with land disruption, I get raped.
I just played an MWS Mini, and faced U/R Vore // Emminent Domain (dunno how you call it) Game 1. I won G1 thanks to him not drawing enough lands early on, and by the time he got enough for an Annex, I had exactly enough mana and combo ftw.
This time, I boarded in the Nightcreep, I was under the impression that he had alot of counters.
G2 is a much, much different story. This time, he does get the lands early on, and I get raped. T2 Boomerang, T3 Stone Rain slowed me to hell, and by the time my Lotus Bloom got of suspension, Remand. Ouch. The only resistance I got out was a hardcasted Shred Memory to shrink his Magnivore, but some turns later get stomped on by Magnivore.
SB, I bring in Darkness to hopefully buy me sometime once the Magnivores come rolling.
G3 is a much better story. I get slowed down once more, but it's not as bad as G2 since I had decent draws. I had 2x Rite, 2x Grapeshot and a Seething Song in hand plus a Rite in the GY, so all I needed was a Dimir Machinations to win one turn later, or Swath itself to win outright.
For some darned reason, I couldn't draw 1 of the eight, and he's pecking away at my life with a couple Bottle Gnomes. Drops down a 7/7 Magnivore, puts me down to 7 or so life. I use Shred Memory again to shrink it down to 3/3, but next turn he drops down another Vore and swings ftw.
Seemed like the deck goes slow when faced against such. I know it's not that popular, but I'm still wary over this. Is there any way I can deal with Land disruption?
Hey guys, i'm COMPLETELY new here. I often speak with Spencer (SRdude) on AIM, and I also frequented this site before I made an account, and I noticed how he hated your deck so much. And no offense, but I really doubt that it can pull off turn four wins so much. I decided to test, so I proxied it up and got my friend to play. He plays Solar Flare, so that is the only matchup I tested. Here they are:
Match 1
Game 1 I go second, spend the game shaping my hand, he Castigates a Swath then hardcasts Akroma, the turn before I go off (around turn eight).
Game 2: He lays down an early Cop: Red, then promptly Persecutes me for all but an Infernal Tutor and a Pact of Negation. I lose shortly thereafter.
Game 3: He castigates early for a Rite of Flame, then persecutes for my all-black hand, and starts swinging with Phyrexian Totem. I start to shape my hand again, he Persecutes again, but I use Ignorant Bliss. It doesn't matter, before I can correctly shape my hand he lays down an AoD to destroy my Lotus Bloom, and I lose.
Match 2
Game 1 I go first, and get the infamous turn three kill. Nothing to see here.
Game 2: I get a really good opener (don't remember) and I have the cards to kill turn four. He Persecutes turn three taking all but an Infernal Tutor. I lose a few turns later.
Game 3: He lays down a CoP Red turn two, I have a good opener, but he Castigates a few rituals away and beats with a Totem.
Match 3
Game 1 I get a VERY slow hand, after mulling to five. I draw plenty of cards and he doesn't get a Persecute or any Castigates, but I couldn't draw into a Shred Memory or Grapeshot. I lose to a hardcasted Akroma.
Game 2: Castigate turn 2 for my Infernal Tutor followed by a Persecute for the rest of my cards except a Machinations seals the game.
Then I decided to goldfish, twenty-five games:
Win turn 3-4: 3
Win turns 5-6: 8
Win turns 7+: 14
I usually do VERY well with combo, I take to it like a duck to water. But no offense, the deck is NOT as fast as you claim it to be. I honestly couldn't see the deck racing D-storm consistently. I fail to see how playing it better could change the fact that just about every opener is utterly terrible. And also, I don't see how it could race faster aggro like Gruul, which WILL be prevalent at Regionals. And I can see slower decks like Dralnu also winning alot of the games because of its high density of counterspells for your Swaths, etc.
I'm sorry to point out any flaws with the deck, I just felt that my playtesting results may help.
Well, like many people have said in this threrad: Its an extremely hard deck to play. Even im not an expert and ive been playing it for around a month:p
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Quote from Zombiemachine »
Treefolk most probably eat dwarves, hence their absence.
:D:D:D
Quote from MajoraX »
So 9th Edition just stuck its middle finger up at Christianity.
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
I usually do VERY well with combo, I take to it like a duck to water. But no offense, the deck is NOT as fast as you claim it to be. I honestly couldn't see the deck racing D-storm consistently. I fail to see how playing it better could change the fact that just about every opener is utterly terrible. And also, I don't see how it could race faster aggro like Gruul, which WILL be prevalent at Regionals. And I can see slower decks like Dralnu also winning alot of the games because of its high density of counterspells for your Swaths, etc.
I'm sorry to point out any flaws with the deck, I just felt that my playtesting results may help.
well, besides online testing, this past fnm was the first showing of the deck for me.
i went 2-2, both losses were directly based off of my player error. in the 3rd game as well.
re: gruul. i lost 2-1 vs gruul. it's a race that is winnable. all 3 games he started with either ape then mauler, or back to back apes. and he was unloading his hand because it was clear i wasn't running damnations. like i said, a player error on my part cost me that win. and that's a pretty hard matchup. these were games were i took some bob damage too.
**i'm also running bobs. imo he makes the deck a lot better. and i'm gonna run chromatic stars, possibly now. not for the colour, just because of the storm count and cantrip. i also wanna add rift bolts but i gotta find room
Well, like many people have said in this threrad: Its an extremely hard deck to play. Even im not an expert and ive been playing it for around a month
I'm just wondering how "playing it better" can change the fact that I get terrible draws. Even though I have personally played with it in over 20 games (to get a feel for how it works, I did it before I did the testing against my friend so I was at least slightly experienced with the deck), could somebody, Extarbags maybe, detail me how an average game would go?
EDIT: gah, I have your wierd type. How do I not do that?
Just to let you know, you played a deck with discard. Discard is the one thing that royally hands you your buttocks on a silver platter. It's the only deck I've lost to so far.
I had no problems with land destruction on Friday and I played a very well-tuned LD deck in the fifth round. I went off on turn 4 both games.
Did you use a version with Howling Mine in it? If not, I suggest trying out that version. You may not like giving your opponent cards but trust me, you shouldn't have to worry about it if they aren't discard.
This deck takes hours of practicing with even more testing. it also takes a really good player. The only reason I'm not testing it right now is that I have 3 other decks to test also with the amount of time it takes to get the hang of this deck I just can't fit in enough time to get use to it. Anyway I had to maindeck darkness the first time I played this deck.(Three Gruul in a ten man is scary). On Storm Entity I don't know seems really like a winmore.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Well, ive dropped the ignus's for mines in y version. Works well.
Played about 10 games at my card shop todasy against both UW control and mono-red agrro. Only lost one games:D
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Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Quote from Zombiemachine »
Treefolk most probably eat dwarves, hence their absence.
:D:D:D
Quote from MajoraX »
So 9th Edition just stuck its middle finger up at Christianity.
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
I really want to use this deck but I am not sure how to successfully pilot it.
My friend wants me to use the Bridge Dredge deck but I think that deck will be hated after regionals.
Anyways, what are the best tips on using this deck?
It's pretty hard to pilot when you start, but I just thought of it as some sort of Dragonstorm minus the U, and more tutors to get what you need. After a couple of solitaire games (most of them doing 18 on turn 4, sad :-/), I finally figured out how to play it.
As for the manabase issue, I think I'll stick with the basic land thing for now UNTIL we get a glimpse of Xth. The Terramorphic Expanse s pretty good, it lets you get whatever color you're lacking in your hand, or just simply whatever the hell you want. Deck-thinning, too, which means a bit higher chance to draw what you want. Even if you have the tutors necessary to win, a better chance to draw stuff makes it really, really sweet.
Persecute is a pretty hard pain in the neck in Game 1s. If it hits you, you're dead. Ignorant Bliss boarded in should take care of that, as well as stuff like Lost Hours.
Black has no way to deal with bottled cloister that I know of. (Other than Funeral Charm...)
Just make sure you in NO WAY WHATSOEVER board in bottled cloister if there is any sign that they might be able to destroy it during their turn. Cuz then you're F*^%ed, and have no hand.
You should probably Accellerate into one of those as soon as possible. Also, helps you dig through your deck since it lets you draw an extra card each turn. So yeah, definately would help your MBrack game a lot.
Sure. First off, I mulligan very rarely; the hand has to be a ton of land or like all tutors for me to ditch it, usually. So, here's a hand worth mulliganing:
Infernal Tutor
Swamp
Mountain
Shred Memory
Shred Memory
Shred Memory
Dimir Machinations
Obviously godawful and unkeepable. More commonly, here's a bad hand that you can keep and work with:
Swamp
Terramorphic Expanse
Grapeshot
Shred Memory
Infernal Tutor
Rite of Flame
Lost Hours
This kind is the most common type of bad hand this deck gets. You can still play it, because you have a Grapeshot already, but you have no Pyromancer's Swath in sight. Still, keep this hand, and hope to draw one of the eight Swaths in the deck as soon as possible. As soon as you do, your fortunes will change, and it really shouldn't take that long to get one. In the meantime, you can grab a second Grapeshot and turn Infernal Tutor into another Rite of Flame.
Here's a mediocre hand:
Mountain
Swamp
Swamp
Shred Memory
Dimir Machinations
Infernal Tutor
Seething Song
This is a winning hand, but it's a slow hand. You need two transmutes if you don't draw a combo piece naturally, which lines you up for a turn five win. However, turn five isn't that slow in the scheme of things, and you do at least have the means to procure everything you need.
This is what a really solid hand looks like:
Lotus Bloom
Seething Song
Grapeshot
Dimir Machinations
Infernal Tutor
Swamp
Terramorphic Expanse
Note that I didn't go overboard, and you still need to tutor for Pyromancer's Swath with this hand, but the Lotus Bloom lines you up for a decisive fourth turn win nearly always. Also note that this hand gets even better with multiple Lotus Blooms
Finally, here's an amazing hand:
Mountain
Rite of Flame
Rite of Flame
Seething Song
Grapeshot
Pyromancer's Swath
Grapeshot
You're one mana short of a first-turn win with this hand, which means you win as soon as you draw another mana source that isn't Lotus Bloom.
It does indeed. This is actually an important thing to keep in mind, because it lets you go off with a very low storm count.
Also I've found myself needing more mana, how many lands should I run, right now I'm at 19?
Thank you Feste
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That's how it would usually be, a situation where you already have a bloom or a pile of land on the board but not enough cards in hand for whatever reason.
Twenty.
My current record in the tourney with this deck is 3-1-1, so hoping to take it to T8.
Only loss was to gruul.
Anyways, i RARELY mulligan with this deck. Usually, it gets a workable hand and goes off quickly.
However, Im worried what will happen after Xth comes in. Will we get seething? If not, im thinking were pretty much dead.
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
I think Seething Song will be returning, but meh, I'm not too worried about it. This deck is dead as disco when Ravnica leaves anyway (unless it somehow becomes good in Extended, which seems unlikely to say the least), and that's only a few months after Tenth comes in.
But anyway, I've been playing this deck for a while with MWS, and I'm winning most of the time. I run 22 lands, because when I ran 20, I always mana screwed. :/
Btw, is Confidant worth considering in this deck, or should I sell them now while I get a good price of them?
PS. I'm only lacking 1 Swath and 2 Tutors (and 3 Darknesses, meh).
I just played an MWS Mini, and faced U/R Vore // Emminent Domain (dunno how you call it) Game 1. I won G1 thanks to him not drawing enough lands early on, and by the time he got enough for an Annex, I had exactly enough mana and combo ftw.
This time, I boarded in the Nightcreep, I was under the impression that he had alot of counters.
G2 is a much, much different story. This time, he does get the lands early on, and I get raped. T2 Boomerang, T3 Stone Rain slowed me to hell, and by the time my Lotus Bloom got of suspension, Remand. Ouch. The only resistance I got out was a hardcasted Shred Memory to shrink his Magnivore, but some turns later get stomped on by Magnivore.
SB, I bring in Darkness to hopefully buy me sometime once the Magnivores come rolling.
G3 is a much better story. I get slowed down once more, but it's not as bad as G2 since I had decent draws. I had 2x Rite, 2x Grapeshot and a Seething Song in hand plus a Rite in the GY, so all I needed was a Dimir Machinations to win one turn later, or Swath itself to win outright.
For some darned reason, I couldn't draw 1 of the eight, and he's pecking away at my life with a couple Bottle Gnomes. Drops down a 7/7 Magnivore, puts me down to 7 or so life. I use Shred Memory again to shrink it down to 3/3, but next turn he drops down another Vore and swings ftw.
Seemed like the deck goes slow when faced against such. I know it's not that popular, but I'm still wary over this. Is there any way I can deal with Land disruption?
Match 1
Game 1 I go second, spend the game shaping my hand, he Castigates a Swath then hardcasts Akroma, the turn before I go off (around turn eight).
Game 2: He lays down an early Cop: Red, then promptly Persecutes me for all but an Infernal Tutor and a Pact of Negation. I lose shortly thereafter.
Game 3: He castigates early for a Rite of Flame, then persecutes for my all-black hand, and starts swinging with Phyrexian Totem. I start to shape my hand again, he Persecutes again, but I use Ignorant Bliss. It doesn't matter, before I can correctly shape my hand he lays down an AoD to destroy my Lotus Bloom, and I lose.
Match 2
Game 1 I go first, and get the infamous turn three kill. Nothing to see here.
Game 2: I get a really good opener (don't remember) and I have the cards to kill turn four. He Persecutes turn three taking all but an Infernal Tutor. I lose a few turns later.
Game 3: He lays down a CoP Red turn two, I have a good opener, but he Castigates a few rituals away and beats with a Totem.
Match 3
Game 1 I get a VERY slow hand, after mulling to five. I draw plenty of cards and he doesn't get a Persecute or any Castigates, but I couldn't draw into a Shred Memory or Grapeshot. I lose to a hardcasted Akroma.
Game 2: Castigate turn 2 for my Infernal Tutor followed by a Persecute for the rest of my cards except a Machinations seals the game.
Then I decided to goldfish, twenty-five games:
Win turn 3-4: 3
Win turns 5-6: 8
Win turns 7+: 14
I usually do VERY well with combo, I take to it like a duck to water. But no offense, the deck is NOT as fast as you claim it to be. I honestly couldn't see the deck racing D-storm consistently. I fail to see how playing it better could change the fact that just about every opener is utterly terrible. And also, I don't see how it could race faster aggro like Gruul, which WILL be prevalent at Regionals. And I can see slower decks like Dralnu also winning alot of the games because of its high density of counterspells for your Swaths, etc.
I'm sorry to point out any flaws with the deck, I just felt that my playtesting results may help.
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
well, besides online testing, this past fnm was the first showing of the deck for me.
i went 2-2, both losses were directly based off of my player error. in the 3rd game as well.
re: gruul. i lost 2-1 vs gruul. it's a race that is winnable. all 3 games he started with either ape then mauler, or back to back apes. and he was unloading his hand because it was clear i wasn't running damnations. like i said, a player error on my part cost me that win. and that's a pretty hard matchup. these were games were i took some bob damage too.
**i'm also running bobs. imo he makes the deck a lot better. and i'm gonna run chromatic stars, possibly now. not for the colour, just because of the storm count and cantrip. i also wanna add rift bolts but i gotta find room
I'm just wondering how "playing it better" can change the fact that I get terrible draws. Even though I have personally played with it in over 20 games (to get a feel for how it works, I did it before I did the testing against my friend so I was at least slightly experienced with the deck), could somebody, Extarbags maybe, detail me how an average game would go?
EDIT: gah, I have your wierd type. How do I not do that?
I had no problems with land destruction on Friday and I played a very well-tuned LD deck in the fifth round. I went off on turn 4 both games.
Did you use a version with Howling Mine in it? If not, I suggest trying out that version. You may not like giving your opponent cards but trust me, you shouldn't have to worry about it if they aren't discard.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Played about 10 games at my card shop todasy against both UW control and mono-red agrro. Only lost one games:D
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
I've got it ready to test now.
5 Swamp
5 Mountain
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Blood Crypt
2 Terramorphic Expanse
Spells-38
4 Pact of negation
4 Grapeshot
4 Pyromancers Swath
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
3 Shred Memory
3 Howling Mine
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Dimir Machinations
2 Dark Confidant
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Darkness
2 Persecute
3 Ignorant Bliss
3 Empty the Warrens
Warrens is in there for decks who have a lot of creature kill- they side out kill, we side in warrens
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered