HiveNode tell me how it works out because I really want to run nightcreep sb but the fact that I HAVE to have a bloom in play for it to really do its thing scared me away from it, also what are you taking out for the stars.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2 BRBurning WineBR
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
let me explain: Scenario 1. You play the creep in upkeep and when you get to main phase you dont have any lands that can produce red mana...you need bloom. Scenario 2. You play the creep in first main. here you need to float at least one red mana to be able to start the combo. Besides the fact that this requires one more mana then the combo really needs we havent solved anything if the opponent floats mana too. Since you cant just wait untill second main to go off because then you dont have any lands that give red mana...You need bloom.
because of this i intend to use chromatic star (in addition to the blooms). It fixes colors for transmutes, it gives you red mana the turn you go off and if you get multiples just use them for carddraw.
Edit: clarified that the star is to be used togeather with bloom, not instead of.
for the 2nd time...just play a mountain after casting nightcreep.
seriously, if you're gonna come in here and knock a part of the deck, at least read the appropriate parts of the thread. the decklist has no blooms or stars, and everyone else seems to have nightcreep working out pretty well for them.
I know TEPS runs chromatic star in extended as a color-fixer and a card-drawing engine. It's also easy to plop out with extra mana during combo in order to jack the storm count.
On another point, does this deck have particular weaknesses against other top decks in the format that we need to deal with? Leyline of the Void and Darkness are good against NarcoBridge and MGA/MGH respectively. Any other weaknesses we should be prepared to deal with?
well abviously discard, ignorant bliss is good but having that as our only protection against hand disruption that gives us a very big weak spot.
Edit: Oh wait lost hours can help a (very) little against discard. but that is kind of weak
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2 BRBurning WineBR
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
I don't think Chromatic Star is needed to deal with Nightcreep, and I know it's not worth running otherwise. I tested it early on. It suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Founding member of Team Kris Kross. Would you like to join?
Im personally not running nightcreep. ANy deck with lots of counters probably is running siggys, so they will just go hey, ill just use these to counter all of my opps key spells:/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Quote from Zombiemachine »
Treefolk most probably eat dwarves, hence their absence.
:D:D:D
Quote from MajoraX »
So 9th Edition just stuck its middle finger up at Christianity.
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
Nice list, Hive, and I think most of your changes come down to preference. We aren't going to to reach consensus on Slagheap vs. Mine or Nightcreep vs. Pact regardless of what's said, so I won't address those choices (and I don't think they make a huge difference anyway).
What I do want to talk about is Howling Mine. I haven't yet had a chance to test it, and I promise I will, but I'm just not sure about it. I do think it's better than Dark Confidant because it's less easily removed, but it has the same problem: if you don't play it second turn exactly, and you're trying to win fourth turn, you get at best one card (in which case the slot would have been better as Street Wraith), and at worst one dead card in your hand on your combo turn. In other words, isn't it only good at salvaging bad games?
All the same, I will try it out.
Edit: also re: Lost Hours, I no longer see the point of them in this deck. I've personally removed them for the Mines in my latest test build, but in your build, I'd probably drop them for more maindeck Nightcreep or Darkness. This card originally seemed very promising but has been extremely underwhelming as of late.
Just out of curiousity, if you guys played nightcreep before you combo'd out, you wouldn't have your stuff countered would you? Or is that even a problem here?
Just so everybody knows, I suggested the whole nightcreep idea...
Can I get some "What-a-noob is frickin' awesome!" type stuff on that so I can quote it in my sig, letting everyone know how awesome I am?
Or send me your foil lotus blooms... that works too...
Oh yeah, Like roorFTW suggested in the first place, don't be an idiot!
Save your mountain and play it after you play nightcreep, simple as that.
(PSSST! If you don't want your opponent playing anything on their turn, nightcreep also doubles as a psuedo timewalk.[well, more like Oriss' chant w/o the kicker, or the ability to work against black decks... or decks with artifacts.. yeeeeaaaahh...])
Can I get some "What-a-noob is frickin' awesome!" type stuff on that so I can quote it in my sig, letting everyone know how awesome I am?
What-A-Noob is pretty awesome, because not only did he discover some really awesome secret tech, which I admire anyway, but it's cheap secret tech that might actually let me afford to take this deck to Regionals. Thanks, What-A-Noob. The nation owes you a debt of gratitude.
Will that work?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Founding member of Team Kris Kross. Would you like to join?
What-A-Noob is pretty awesome, because not only did he discover some really awesome secret tech, which I admire anyway, but it's cheap secret tech that might actually let me afford to take this deck to Regionals. Thanks, What-A-Noob. The nation owes you a debt of gratitude.
Will that work?
Mmmmmmmm...
My ego is very, very pleased.
Thanks bags! Hope the deck goes far in regionals, IDK if the rogue aspect will work since this is on MTGsal competitive... But yeah, good luck regardless.
Me and my friends saw it when it first came out and we were like "there has to be some use for this..." and when I was thinking of a stall kinda card for your deck, it came to mind, lol.
But yeah, Nightcreep... Crept up on you... Get it it! Nightcreep!
Anyway, done bathing in my glory, discuss the deck.
Hi,
I've read the thread and want to say congratulations to all of you for building and testing a cool deck.
Anyways, I came across a post that said there were 2 versions, a UR and a BR one.
I only see the BR one (first post) but not the UR deck.
Can anyone post a UR list that's just as consistent as the BR one?
And what are the pros and cons of BR over UR (and vice versa)?
Can anyone post a UR list that's just as consistent as the BR one?
Nope, because it doesn't exist.
And what are the pros and cons of BR over UR (and vice versa)?
Pros of BR:
- Dramatically more consistent thanks to Infernal Tutor.
- Access to Nightcreep, probably the best tech against control.
- Access to Darkness, probably the best tech against aggro.
- Access to Lost Hours and Persecute against other combo.
Pros of UR:
- Ok let's say you don't have any money at all, and you play a lot of black decks so all of your swamps are already in decks, but you do have islands left over that you can play with, and there's no possible way you could get ahold of any more swamps, and you also lost all of your decks in a fire so you can't even take the swamps out of them. In that situation, I'd say go for UR.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Founding member of Team Kris Kross. Would you like to join?
Well, excellent find on the Nightcreep thing, What-A-Noob. Seems like you aren't a noob, get your name changed or something.
Anyhow, I've started making this deck last week, and sofar so good. The only things I'm missing would be the Lotus Bloom and Infernal Tutor.
As for the Nightcreep, I only have 2 in the SB right now. The deck I run doesn't have Lost Hours, in its place for now is Brain Pry. It hasn't worked out that badly, but we'll see.
Also, would the deck be fine if I ran a no-dual manabase? I'm thinking of doing that since I don't want to buy Painlands since 10th is too near - so there's the chance that it may rotate out soon. Something like:
Pros of UR:
- Ok let's say you don't have any money at all, and you play a lot of black decks so all of your swamps are already in decks, but you do have islands left over that you can play with, and there's no possible way you could get ahold of any more swamps, and you also lost all of your decks in a fire so you can't even take the swamps out of them. In that situation, I'd say go for UR.
Sigged that. So how does one use Nightcreep? Do you do it on your first main (or upkeep), then play a mountain and your further spells? Or do you float mana first... or does that not work.
Sigged that. So how does one use Nightcreep? Do you do it on your first main (or upkeep), then play a mountain and your further spells? Or do you float mana first... or does that not work.
You can't float your mana first because if you use Nightcreep at a time when you could, they can to. You cast it during your upkeep, then either play a red-producing land or pop a Lotus Bloom.
Quote from Archy »
Also, would the deck be fine if I ran a no-dual manabase?
Depends on how competitive you want it to be. If you're planning on taking it to Regionals, no, probably not, but I'm of the mind that just about any deck is fine without duals for FNM-level play.
You could also try using Tresserhorn Sinks. I haven't tested it and probably nobody else has either, because it's frankly not that good, but it does have the advantage of costing like fifty cents. That might be too many CIPT lands if you're also using Terramorphic Expanse, but you can give it a shot.
It's a shame if you end up buying two Graven Cairns for this rather than four Sulfurous Springs, because Sulfurous Springs is better in this deck in my experience, but I do understand your concern about rotation. My store is selling Springs for three bucks though, which is cheap enough that I'm going to pick them up, damn the torpedoes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Founding member of Team Kris Kross. Would you like to join?
Hey Extarbags, i've been having trouble comboing before the 5th turn with this deck recently, for like the last 10+ games. Is this just coincidence or have you found that the deck slows itself down too (ie mediocre hands)?
I may just be playing it wrong, but i dont think so... anyway you're the most experienced pilot of this deck (i assume) so i was just wondering if you could give some examples of good, mediocre, and poor hands that you've had and how they played out.
I played this deck tonight at FNM and went 4-1. I got 3rd place, but members of my team got 1 and 2. The only guy that beat me was the guy who got first and he was playing aggro-discard.
Overall, it was really consistent, though I sometimes had problems getting one of the combo pieces. Not a huge issue though.
I used Howling Mine and I think it works really well in the deck. Your opponent might get a good draw, but God knows that their deck isn't optimized to use 2 draws like this one is.
I played Narcobridge, and beat it clean... I think this is the best combo deck to come out of Future Sight.
Too bad I can't go to Regionals, because I would run this in an instant. I plan on playing this until Lorwyn. (Or until its dead.)
I love the main deck and disagree how lost hours should NOT be in it. I have been testing this deck for at least 10 matches a day and it WINS ME GAMES against certain decks. Essentially I have deduced that the deck straight up gets boned by 3 cards; Persecute, Extirpate and Trickbind. So I think i have teched out the SB very well..
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Shadow of Doubt (D storm, mystical teachings, mainly d storm)
1 Defense Grid (trying it because i find control is leaving only one mana open the turn they KNOW ima go off...i think its a good surprise since you can tutor for it..but once you do they MAY play around it...if you ran more than one i suppose you could draw into it and shock some people)
2 Nightcreep (aggro meta for regionals..shouldnt need em main deck)
1 Molten Disaster
3-4 Ignorant Bliss
1 Open Slot maybe?
I also LOVE 4 blue pacts main...its more tech late game...i dont want to describe a scenario i was in because it was far too long, but lets just say having one in hand helped immensely.
I also dont like the concept of darkness in the board as it is not easily put in your hand.
I feel like im missing something i wanted to say but clearly i cannot remember it. im vowing to run this deck at regionals...i love extarbags.
PS I remember...Blood crypt over expanse and remove a mountain for a swamp, deck is too dependant on black mana
A SKILLED PLAYER WITH THIS DECK WILL BE ABSOLUTELY DEADLY.
i remember now...3 bliss in the board and 1 howling mine..xmute for it...dont need to put it main in an aggro meta because itll burn you...its good to xmute for it after a persecute naming red...lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
BRBurning WineBR
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
for the 2nd time...just play a mountain after casting nightcreep.
seriously, if you're gonna come in here and knock a part of the deck, at least read the appropriate parts of the thread. the decklist has no blooms or stars, and everyone else seems to have nightcreep working out pretty well for them.
what decklist isn't using blooms that is one of the key elements of the deck.
BRBurning WineBR
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
On another point, does this deck have particular weaknesses against other top decks in the format that we need to deal with? Leyline of the Void and Darkness are good against NarcoBridge and MGA/MGH respectively. Any other weaknesses we should be prepared to deal with?
[High~Light Studios]
Edit: Oh wait lost hours can help a (very) little against discard. but that is kind of weak
BRBurning WineBR
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
What I do want to talk about is Howling Mine. I haven't yet had a chance to test it, and I promise I will, but I'm just not sure about it. I do think it's better than Dark Confidant because it's less easily removed, but it has the same problem: if you don't play it second turn exactly, and you're trying to win fourth turn, you get at best one card (in which case the slot would have been better as Street Wraith), and at worst one dead card in your hand on your combo turn. In other words, isn't it only good at salvaging bad games?
All the same, I will try it out.
Edit: also re: Lost Hours, I no longer see the point of them in this deck. I've personally removed them for the Mines in my latest test build, but in your build, I'd probably drop them for more maindeck Nightcreep or Darkness. This card originally seemed very promising but has been extremely underwhelming as of late.
Just so everybody knows, I suggested the whole nightcreep idea...
Can I get some "What-a-noob is frickin' awesome!" type stuff on that so I can quote it in my sig, letting everyone know how awesome I am?
Or send me your foil lotus blooms... that works too...
Oh yeah, Like roorFTW suggested in the first place, don't be an idiot!
Save your mountain and play it after you play nightcreep, simple as that.
(PSSST! If you don't want your opponent playing anything on their turn, nightcreep also doubles as a psuedo timewalk.[well, more like Oriss' chant w/o the kicker, or the ability to work against black decks... or decks with artifacts.. yeeeeaaaahh...])
What-A-Noob is pretty awesome, because not only did he discover some really awesome secret tech, which I admire anyway, but it's cheap secret tech that might actually let me afford to take this deck to Regionals. Thanks, What-A-Noob. The nation owes you a debt of gratitude.
Will that work?
Mmmmmmmm...
My ego is very, very pleased.
Thanks bags! Hope the deck goes far in regionals, IDK if the rogue aspect will work since this is on MTGsal competitive... But yeah, good luck regardless.
I like this deck primarily because of its weird uniqueness, and it's rogueness. I wish you all luck at Regionals.
And also I swear I've never, ever heard of the card Nightcreep before until now. And I thought I knew Ravnica block pretty well. Sorta crept up on me.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Yeah, me too. To be honest, when I first clicked on the link, I expected it to be some card that wasn't even Standard legal.
Me and my friends saw it when it first came out and we were like "there has to be some use for this..." and when I was thinking of a stall kinda card for your deck, it came to mind, lol.
But yeah, Nightcreep... Crept up on you... Get it it! Nightcreep!
Anyway, done bathing in my glory, discuss the deck.
Wow I totally did not notice my own pun either. *Shudders* Is Teferi a good card?
[Note to all people reading my post: That final bit is sarcasm. Just in case.]
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
I've read the thread and want to say congratulations to all of you for building and testing a cool deck.
Anyways, I came across a post that said there were 2 versions, a UR and a BR one.
I only see the BR one (first post) but not the UR deck.
Can anyone post a UR list that's just as consistent as the BR one?
And what are the pros and cons of BR over UR (and vice versa)?
Thanks
Nope, because it doesn't exist.
Pros of BR:
- Dramatically more consistent thanks to Infernal Tutor.
- Access to Nightcreep, probably the best tech against control.
- Access to Darkness, probably the best tech against aggro.
- Access to Lost Hours and Persecute against other combo.
Pros of UR:
- Ok let's say you don't have any money at all, and you play a lot of black decks so all of your swamps are already in decks, but you do have islands left over that you can play with, and there's no possible way you could get ahold of any more swamps, and you also lost all of your decks in a fire so you can't even take the swamps out of them. In that situation, I'd say go for UR.
Anyhow, I've started making this deck last week, and sofar so good. The only things I'm missing would be the Lotus Bloom and Infernal Tutor.
As for the Nightcreep, I only have 2 in the SB right now. The deck I run doesn't have Lost Hours, in its place for now is Brain Pry. It hasn't worked out that badly, but we'll see.
Also, would the deck be fine if I ran a no-dual manabase? I'm thinking of doing that since I don't want to buy Painlands since 10th is too near - so there's the chance that it may rotate out soon. Something like:
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Molten Slagheap
1 Gemstone Caverns
7 Swamp
5 Mountain
Total: 20 lands
If that doesn't work out, I may just end up buying 2 Graven Cairns to take off 1 Mountain, 1 Swamp, though.
Sigged that. So how does one use Nightcreep? Do you do it on your first main (or upkeep), then play a mountain and your further spells? Or do you float mana first... or does that not work.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
You can't float your mana first because if you use Nightcreep at a time when you could, they can to. You cast it during your upkeep, then either play a red-producing land or pop a Lotus Bloom.
Depends on how competitive you want it to be. If you're planning on taking it to Regionals, no, probably not, but I'm of the mind that just about any deck is fine without duals for FNM-level play.
You could also try using Tresserhorn Sinks. I haven't tested it and probably nobody else has either, because it's frankly not that good, but it does have the advantage of costing like fifty cents. That might be too many CIPT lands if you're also using Terramorphic Expanse, but you can give it a shot.
It's a shame if you end up buying two Graven Cairns for this rather than four Sulfurous Springs, because Sulfurous Springs is better in this deck in my experience, but I do understand your concern about rotation. My store is selling Springs for three bucks though, which is cheap enough that I'm going to pick them up, damn the torpedoes.
I may just be playing it wrong, but i dont think so... anyway you're the most experienced pilot of this deck (i assume) so i was just wondering if you could give some examples of good, mediocre, and poor hands that you've had and how they played out.
Also, how often do you mulligan?
Overall, it was really consistent, though I sometimes had problems getting one of the combo pieces. Not a huge issue though.
I used Howling Mine and I think it works really well in the deck. Your opponent might get a good draw, but God knows that their deck isn't optimized to use 2 draws like this one is.
I played Narcobridge, and beat it clean... I think this is the best combo deck to come out of Future Sight.
Too bad I can't go to Regionals, because I would run this in an instant. I plan on playing this until Lorwyn. (Or until its dead.)
Sig and Avvy by Mr. Stuff
Looking for people to test T2 with me on MWS, Pacific or Mountain time preffered
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Shadow of Doubt (D storm, mystical teachings, mainly d storm)
1 Defense Grid (trying it because i find control is leaving only one mana open the turn they KNOW ima go off...i think its a good surprise since you can tutor for it..but once you do they MAY play around it...if you ran more than one i suppose you could draw into it and shock some people)
2 Nightcreep (aggro meta for regionals..shouldnt need em main deck)
1 Molten Disaster
3-4 Ignorant Bliss
1 Open Slot maybe?
I also LOVE 4 blue pacts main...its more tech late game...i dont want to describe a scenario i was in because it was far too long, but lets just say having one in hand helped immensely.
I also dont like the concept of darkness in the board as it is not easily put in your hand.
I feel like im missing something i wanted to say but clearly i cannot remember it. im vowing to run this deck at regionals...i love extarbags.
PS I remember...Blood crypt over expanse and remove a mountain for a swamp, deck is too dependant on black mana
A SKILLED PLAYER WITH THIS DECK WILL BE ABSOLUTELY DEADLY.