Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth adds the subtype of swamp to all lands, and according to rule 212.6e does not change the lands supertype, which include it's basicness
Edit: I think we are thinking of different things, I am saying that your Desert and Urborg will not create extra mana with gauntlet, since they will be "Land-Desert Swamp", rather than "Basic Land- Desert Swamp". Basic lands will stay basic, so "basic land-plains" will become "basic land-plains swamp"
I've decided to man up and get a playset of the pulses. Hopefully they are the reason why this deck can consistently win 1 out of three games but just cannot finish the match off
"When all is said and done Goblins will be all that remain."
-Common Sense
When fixing up my sideboard today I ran into a problem, I don't know wether or not I like Withered Wretch or Tormod's Crypt better! Each has their pros and cons but I cannot decide which one I like more than the other. Any thoughts on which is better for a tutorable graveyard hate card?
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
Withered Wretch by far. In nearly any situation you can think of it's simply better.
Vs. Martyr: They sac martyr/children of korlis. Proclamation. You spend an entire card to rfg their grave, and they simply play another martyr/children next turn. Wouldn't happen with wretch.
Vs. Dralnu: Same thing; instead of disabling their teachings/think twice for a turn, why not forever? Plus it swings for 2.
Vs. GB Dredge: Okay, Tormod's crypt wipes their grave in one swoop but wretch is functionally the same, and gives you a greater control of the grave. They activate svogthos? Rfg 7 creatures and see how strong it is. They dread return akroma. Tap 1 mana to counter that spell. They play Grave troll? Rfg creatures in response and watch it come in as a 1/1.
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"Mind over muscle"
- Unknown
"Slow and steady wins the race"
- The Tortoise and the Hare
"A [deck] that is slightly slower and slightly more control-minded than the opposing deck has an edge.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth adds the subtype of swamp to all lands, and according to rule 212.6e does not change the lands supertype, which include it's basicness
Edit: I think we are thinking of different things, I am saying that your Desert and Urborg will not create extra mana with gauntlet, since they will be "Land-Desert Swamp", rather than "Basic Land- Desert Swamp". Basic lands will stay basic, so "basic land-plains" will become "basic land-plains swamp"
Wrong - Urborg creates the Supertype - Swamp, as stated above by mtg17 (who will not be chastised as he should for his hilarious statement claiming gauntlet to be better than coffers). So yes, your nonbasics produce BB if you want; but bear in mind gauntlets+Urborg is a TERRIBLE combo as you are also giving your opponent (you know, the guy on the other side of the table trying to beat you?) a buttload of free mana for no investment on his part...
---------------------------------------
and ...
B. Tomb vs Wretch. Well personally I choose Wretch; but thats because the decks in my meta game that I would side it in against have a tougher time killing it. swining for 2 (or 3) is a bonus, as is the repeatable, colorless activation. though if you fear mucho-creature kill stick to the free to use, and activate (though trickbind-able) tormod's.
Next time you post popular opinions, please word them in such a way that they're not infractable. Someone may be widely thought to be the dullest tool in the shed, but you can't publicly call him that, which as a mod I can neither confirm nor deny that I fervently believe he's a tool.
have there been any testing results from the guys who suggested defense grid and hide//seek a while back?
about the urborg+gauntlet: has anybody bothered to ask at the rulings forum?
edit:only basic swamps will be affected with urborg and gauntlet in play. also, added defense grid to sb,taking out jester's cap. dunno if its the right choice but whatever. i havent gotten a chance to try the grid though,havent faced a blue-based control deck all day. i ll post back when ive tested it out
It totaly depends on the MBC build you are running and what your metagame looks like. Tormod's Crypt obviously does it best. It costs zero so good luck countering it, and it does not cost to activate so no matter what, it's bad news bears for a graveyard deck. Withered Wretch is good because it is a win condition (or gets you closer to your goal in winning) and it can serve as a blocker. Not only that, but it can target over and over which means after stripping your opponent of a yard, it can save your ass from Extirpate. How this works is just remove cards from your own yard that you know you cannot get back. It has no harm and protects your deck. Just a thought.
I've decided to man up and get a playset of the pulses. Hopefully they are the reason why this deck can consistently win 1 out of three games but just cannot finish the match off
"When all is said and done Goblins will be all that remain."
-Common Sense
wretch is far better than tormods crypt because it can be used over and over. Crypt will hit the GY once, but usually there are only maybe 3 cards you really want out of there. Wretch will get rid of those three for 3 but if it sticks around, it can deal with future GY threats. Thats really important.
Also, any matches you play on mws don't count. Ya see, mws players are really really bad (even worse than mtgs users). Not to mention the fact that their lists are bad as well. Not having a decent opponent with a decent deck means that results are unreliable.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
I don't know if I still want to put Imp's Mischief as 4 - ofs in my sideboard.
..Or maybe ill put 3 Imp's Mischief and 1 Nightmare Void?
I don't want to put out Phyrexian Totem and put Prismatic Lens maindeck,
because the totems are incredibly useful here in my meta, so I decided not to put out those.
And what do you guys do when Worship is in play without the use of Disenchant?
Make them lose life? How? Circle of Affliction? ha ha ha . . .
Based on my observation, I think my metagame here is like 45% aggro, 35% control, and 20% other decks (combo, land destruction) so I'm not sure if my sideboard is OK with that kind of meta.
I now splash green for enchantment hate and land recursion. I replaced Slay with Deathmark because Boros is on the rise in my meta again and Deathmark is very effective against their cheap creatures. For splashing I tried Prismatic Lens and Chromatic Star and found the Star to be much more effective.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
i,ve tested defense grid. against control deck makes the win much more consistant. I bring in +4 Defense Grid and +3 Psychotic Episode vs control. At the worst is a cheap spell that forces a counterspell. At its best is only stopped by spell snare and when resolved makes the discard really painfull.
Probably its a win more card and to be useful needs to be in 4ofs in the SB. I really dont know if I want this. 4 slots in a SB should be used against really bad matches for you and control is not that bad.
I figured as much, our control matchup doesn't seem bad enough to warrant four Defense Grids in the sideboard. I'll leave Imp's Mischief in those slots because they help against control and our land destruction matchups.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
@yawg: wouldnt dredging be a little dangerous since we dont have that many win conditions?
also, hows the green splash working out? im opting to stick with the white splash since it already covers our vulnerability to enchantments(disenchant) and land destruction(sacred ground). ive cut the imp's mischief out completely, maybe because i never really liked them in the first place and also because i find them too narrow. if im going to use them to stop counterspells (like you say you do, primarily anyway), i might as well run defense grids, which is exactly what i did. in conclusion to my ranting , heres my sb:
Wrong - Urborg creates the Supertype - Swamp, as stated above by mtg17 (who will not be chastised as he should for his hilarious statement claiming gauntlet to be better than coffers). So yes, your nonbasics produce BB if you want...
Wrong; Urborg adds the Subtype Swamp, but does not change the Supertype to Basic. A Desert with Urborg in play will still be a Non-Basic land, Desert Swamp, and if tapped for black will only produce one black mana.
Quote from gonzalo_13 »
edit:eek:nly basic swamps will be affected with urborg and gauntlet in play.
Just to clarify, any other basic land type would also be affected with Urborg and a Gauntlet in play. So if you had a Basic Land - Forest in play, it would become a Basic Land - Forest Swamp, and if tapped for black would produce two black mana.
@gonzalo_13: I have yet to dredge away any of my win conditions because of how few I run. The green splash is working great, I like it more than the blue by far! As for Life from the Loam and Sacred Ground I really do not know which of the two I like better, once again a situation of pros and cons. Being that my splash is provided by Chromatic Star I really can play either if I choose to.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
Thanks for misquoting me asshat, I said it is better because it can generate slightly more mana. It is counterable, that is almost the only difference, just as easily removed from play.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
My environment is generally 60-70% good control and combo of some type, with the occasional new-player beatdown decks that run like, 30 creatures. I'd like to work Brain Pry in, but I can't think what would be safe to change up, although it may serve me better than Stupor. The sideboard has felt very hit-or-miss to me as well. Any thoughts or observations?
What do you feel like you are missing? I don't think you should run plague sliver or dimir house guard, they kind of clunkify the deck (tutors in general) and extirpate is not as great MD.
@Buchannan: The only major changes I'd make would be to replace Dimir House Guard, Plague Sliver, and Orzhov Signet with four copies of Brain Pry and another Sudden Death. You also might want to replace the maindeck Extirpates with something else because they generally aren't very effective there.
On a side note; what do you guys think about Trade Routes as a splashable answer to Land Destruction? Not only does it protect your lands but it also allows you to put some extra ones you may have to good use.
I just realized. Mycoloth perfectly demonstrates the devour mechanic.
Mycoloth: NOMNOMNOM on Dragon Fodder.
One turn later, 1/1 turds come out.
Quote from kalkris »
btw i did it because i could. i was bored and decided to let my little med-free spree go ahead. I am bipolar, explaining all the drama that ensued after. I have problems.
Quote from ShadowWaveInc. »
Jon Finkel can simply walk into Mordor.
"When an artist dies the world loses two lives, that of the artist and that of his unfinished work."
About Defense Grid and Hide / Seek - I have unfortunately been unable to test for the last few days, so I haven't really had a chance to try these out yet. I'm gonna have the chance to do a bit of testing tonight, though, and I'll hopefully be able to do some more next week, so I'll post back when I get results.
trade routes seems counter-productive with our removal/win conditions ie tendrils and consume spirit.i think we already have enough card drawing with 4 arenas.but hey if youre testing it we'd love to hear from you.
btw has anybody tried using Shrouded Lore like someone suggested way back? against maybe rack discard or wrath-heavy decks where you cant save your vampires and your totems have all been condemned. i know thats like worst-case scenario but i thought it might be worth trying. it would be awesome to get double use out of your consume spirits wouldnt it
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Edit: I think we are thinking of different things, I am saying that your Desert and Urborg will not create extra mana with gauntlet, since they will be "Land-Desert Swamp", rather than "Basic Land- Desert Swamp". Basic lands will stay basic, so "basic land-plains" will become "basic land-plains swamp"
This is so bad it could be a sig:-/
"When all is said and done Goblins will be all that remain."
-Common Sense
Vs. Martyr: They sac martyr/children of korlis. Proclamation. You spend an entire card to rfg their grave, and they simply play another martyr/children next turn. Wouldn't happen with wretch.
Vs. Dralnu: Same thing; instead of disabling their teachings/think twice for a turn, why not forever? Plus it swings for 2.
Vs. GB Dredge: Okay, Tormod's crypt wipes their grave in one swoop but wretch is functionally the same, and gives you a greater control of the grave. They activate svogthos? Rfg 7 creatures and see how strong it is. They dread return akroma. Tap 1 mana to counter that spell. They play Grave troll? Rfg creatures in response and watch it come in as a 1/1.
- The Tortoise and the Hare
- Roel van Heeswijk
Control. Always. Wins.
A -
Wrong - Urborg creates the Supertype - Swamp, as stated above by mtg17 (who will not be chastised as he should for his hilarious statement claiming gauntlet to be better than coffers). So yes, your nonbasics produce BB if you want; but bear in mind gauntlets+Urborg is a TERRIBLE combo as you are also giving your opponent (you know, the guy on the other side of the table trying to beat you?) a buttload of free mana for no investment on his part...
---------------------------------------
and ...
B. Tomb vs Wretch. Well personally I choose Wretch; but thats because the decks in my meta game that I would side it in against have a tougher time killing it. swining for 2 (or 3) is a bonus, as is the repeatable, colorless activation. though if you fear mucho-creature kill stick to the free to use, and activate (though trickbind-able) tormod's.
decks:
EDH - Riku, Xiahou, Konda, Azusa
modern - Past in Flames, Onmi-show
vintage - Drains, Oath
coup de grace:
about the urborg+gauntlet: has anybody bothered to ask at the rulings forum?
edit:only basic swamps will be affected with urborg and gauntlet in play. also, added defense grid to sb,taking out jester's cap. dunno if its the right choice but whatever. i havent gotten a chance to try the grid though,havent faced a blue-based control deck all day. i ll post back when ive tested it out
"When all is said and done Goblins will be all that remain."
-Common Sense
T2
BGU Dredge
3 Slay
3 Prismatic Lens (or Chromatic Star)
2 Disenchant
2 Withered Wretch
1 Jester's Cap
I don't know if I still want to put Imp's Mischief as 4 - ofs in my sideboard.
..Or maybe ill put 3 Imp's Mischief and 1 Nightmare Void?
I don't want to put out Phyrexian Totem and put Prismatic Lens maindeck,
because the totems are incredibly useful here in my meta, so I decided not to put out those.
And what do you guys do when Worship is in play without the use of Disenchant?
Make them lose life? How? Circle of Affliction? ha ha ha . . .
Based on my observation, I think my metagame here is like 45% aggro, 35% control, and 20% other decks (combo, land destruction) so I'm not sure if my sideboard is OK with that kind of meta.
Help me with this. Thanks.
2x Nightmare Void
1x Life from the Loam
2x Seal of Primordium
3x Deathmark
4x Imp's Mischief
2x Extirpate
I now splash green for enchantment hate and land recursion. I replaced Slay with Deathmark because Boros is on the rise in my meta again and Deathmark is very effective against their cheap creatures. For splashing I tried Prismatic Lens and Chromatic Star and found the Star to be much more effective.
Probably its a win more card and to be useful needs to be in 4ofs in the SB. I really dont know if I want this. 4 slots in a SB should be used against really bad matches for you and control is not that bad.
also, hows the green splash working out? im opting to stick with the white splash since it already covers our vulnerability to enchantments(disenchant) and land destruction(sacred ground). ive cut the imp's mischief out completely, maybe because i never really liked them in the first place and also because i find them too narrow. if im going to use them to stop counterspells (like you say you do, primarily anyway), i might as well run defense grids, which is exactly what i did. in conclusion to my ranting , heres my sb:
1x Extirpate
2x Withered wrectch
2x Dimir Guildmage
3x Disenchant
3x Defense Grid
3x Sacred Ground
Wrong; Urborg adds the Subtype Swamp, but does not change the Supertype to Basic. A Desert with Urborg in play will still be a Non-Basic land, Desert Swamp, and if tapped for black will only produce one black mana.
Just to clarify, any other basic land type would also be affected with Urborg and a Gauntlet in play. So if you had a Basic Land - Forest in play, it would become a Basic Land - Forest Swamp, and if tapped for black would produce two black mana.
it doesnt work against avalanche rider =/
RGRG Big ManaRG
UB Classical Faeries UB
//Creatures (2)
2 Skeletal Vampire
//Spells (34)
4 Brain Pry
2 Consume Spirit
4 Damnation
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Dimir House Guard
1 Dread Return
1 Nightmare Void
2 Persecute
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Phyrexian Totem
3 Sudden Death
3 Stupor
3 Tendrils of Agony //Lands (24)
2 Desert
3 Ghost Quarter
16 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Urza's Factory
//Sideboard (15)
4 Extirpate
4 Funeral Charm
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Jester's Cap
3 Slay
@JohnVeds: List looks nice, the only major change I'd make would be to replace the Dimir House Guards, and Dread Return with another copy of Consume Spirit, Phyrexian Arena, and Sudden Death.
2 Dimir House Guard
1 Plague Sliver
2 Phyrexian Totem
4 Funeral Charm
3 Stupor
2 Persecute
1 Nightmare Void
2 Extirpate
3 Damnation
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Sudden Death
1 Last Gasp
2 Consume Spirit
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Mouth of Ronom
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Extirpate
2 Persecute
4 Imp's Mischief
3 Shadow of Doubt
1 Nightmare Void
1 Jester's Cap
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Sudden Death
My environment is generally 60-70% good control and combo of some type, with the occasional new-player beatdown decks that run like, 30 creatures. I'd like to work Brain Pry in, but I can't think what would be safe to change up, although it may serve me better than Stupor. The sideboard has felt very hit-or-miss to me as well. Any thoughts or observations?
On a side note; what do you guys think about Trade Routes as a splashable answer to Land Destruction? Not only does it protect your lands but it also allows you to put some extra ones you may have to good use.
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
btw has anybody tried using Shrouded Lore like someone suggested way back? against maybe rack discard or wrath-heavy decks where you cant save your vampires and your totems have all been condemned. i know thats like worst-case scenario but i thought it might be worth trying. it would be awesome to get double use out of your consume spirits wouldnt it