Yeah, you run plenty of cards that need to be countered, and they can't counter everything! As well, last time I checked, Scrying Sheets is a better uncounterable card drawing machine then the Aeon Chronicler against control. For one, you don't have to expose yourself by tapping out, and that is very critical in control matchups. Second, sure, it will only draw you mana sources, but last time I checked, in a control matchup, the player with the most mana and cards tended to be in control. Anyway, Aeon Chronicler is a good card, in a control matchup, but as I'm playing a pure MBC decklist, Scrying Sheets works fine for me in playtesting. The only way to deal with it is to destroy it or Trickbind it, and last time I checked Trickbind wasn't played in any Tier 1/1.5 decklist. Sure, against any land control deck, it might be vulnerable, but I'd rather them targeting that then my Snow-Covered Swamps. And if one is sticks around for a few turns, along with my Phyrexian Arena, I'll quickly recover from thier Wildfire. That is also why I'm running three Phyrexian Totems in the maindeck and Coldsteel Heart as a four-of in the sideboard for those land control strageties, as MBC needs to have mana available to burn your opponent out or swarm them with Bats. Control decks need their mana, and land control is looking like a strong candidate for aggro decks to run at the very least in thier sideboard, if not thier maindeck. And don't forget about U/R Magnivore decks, these decks are still stong, just not heavly played at the moment. A 'Vore deck won our FNM (it's about 18 people weekly, but everyone plays either Tier 1 or Rogue decks that can be suprisingly good) two weeks in a row.
Anyway, now that I have that rant aside, back on Topic. My decklist is on the last page if anyone cares to check it out. I'm going to play that decklist this Friday, and I'll let you know how it works out. I'm really liking the Snow route to be honest, because it will get you past a topdeck land most of the time during your turn. I just wish that there was more playable Snow stuff. I was thinking of playing with the Phyrexian Ironfoot, it's cheap, almost has vinglance, and is Snow. The reason I'm not going to play it at the moment is because of Sudden Death. I will not play a win condition (I'm not really saying that I'm going to rely on it as a win condition, but you never know) that dies to Sudden Death. That is why no Sengir Nosferatu will ever be in my deck maindeck. Maybe as a one of some time down the road, but not right now. That is another reason that I'm leaning towards going with Plague Sliver as my primary win condition, because he is undercosted fat (with a minor drawback) in a color that is great at keeping the path cleared for their win condition. That is another topic I want to debate at the moment, is our win conditions. These I consider our playable win conditions (because Consume Spirit is going to be used as removal in some matchups and is never going to resolve against a counter-control deck if it is lethal), and I'm going to rate them, and I want to know how you guys feel about them:
So, in my opinion, we have 7 decent finishers. The best being Skeletal Vampire because he is evasive, is "multiple" threats in one, can stop an aggro deck in its heels, and is extreemly tough to kill. The second best is Stonghold Overseer because he is very much like Batman except he is only one threat, and if you tap out for him, you are very vulnerable to an attack. The third best is Plague Sliver because he is undercosted fat and randomly hoses decks. His major drawback is his lack of evasion, with a minor drawback of life drain, but that is easily dealt with in Black. For my fourth option, I would run Sengir Nosferatu because he is evasive and dodges everything short of mass removal, Sudden Death, and sacrifice effects (Cruel Edict type cards). After him would come Helldozer (which is sad because I have a playset of him, but can't find a use for him!) because if you untap with him, he will slowly eat away someone's mana base (who runs basics anyway?) and is fat, but he has no evasion and can't dodge removal. If desperate, I would run Avatar of Woe. In the right matchup, this card could be devasting, but it is to narrow for me. She has evasion, can kill creatures all day long, and is fat, but lacks the dodge factor (I really like evasive, nigh unkillable things, lol) and is usually to slow to get out effectively. Last, but not least, is my sleeper. I like the Rolling Horror for it's art work (had to make a note about that, it's sweet art work) and drain effect. It also could end the game the turn it comes into play as you get a free fattie with haste, allowing you to clear the path to swing for the victory. He seems like a potential excellent finisher (that is why I'm going to run two in my sideboard to side in against control) against control decks that don't allow you resolve/keep a threat long enough to make it matter. Plus, late game, he is like drawing cards for free because he would offset your Phyrexian Arena, and with two or three suspended, could be a control decks worst nightmare. Well, those are my thoughts about the finishers we have. I don't like the current artifacts available (save the Power Glove) in Standard as well for finishers. If we had a good man-land, it could be different, but that is not available at the moment.
P.S. Some of us run Urza's Factory (I do, I can't imagine running a deck without it now) and that as well is a great finisher for MBC.
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Szadek-your numbers are somewhat confusing. but i digress. Nosferatu is a little underrated i think, he only dies to split second and wrath of god, which says a lot.
Now i realize how good aeon chronicler is. get a gauntlet online, and put 8-10 counters on it, then get a big fatty or waste their counterspell.
IF you are so high on evasion, though, how can your 3rd favorite finisher be a smaller dude with no evasion, who makes you lose life? you would not play him turn 4 anyway, I don't see the sense in him being a 3rd option.
More to the point, if you refuse to play a win condition that dies to Sudden Death, why are you even considering Skeletal Vampire? He's smaller than Nosferatu!
I haven't tested this yet, but here's the build I'm working on.
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Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo, copy and paste this into your sig.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
I am back to the 4 Extirpate MD. Mainly because after I get rid of one big thread I love to feel that I won't see it anymore.
Also I also always use Jester's Cap in g2. Watch out. A couple of times have found CoP Black for g2. Play Jester cap as fast as you can.
How good is brain pry?? i see it in alot of lists but i dont know how good it is in execution. My list still needs a lot of tuning so i won't post it up but my main changes are no extirpate md and i splash white for castigate and i run stupor. I also tried twisted abomination and i find him really good. Early game, you find a land and late game you have a fat regenerator. I use him alongside skeletal vampire and phyrexian totem. Any other suggestions?
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I'm toolazy2stand on AIM and Magic Online (i just started)
At first, I thought Brain Pry was junk. But, in a deck like this, Brain Pry fits the deck's needs.
The 3-drop slot is choked up with Arena, transmuting House Guard, Totem, Sudden Death, Stupor... well you get the idea. So a 2nd turn Pry makes for nice curving.
Against white decks, you name the card that you hate the most (CoP Black, Mask, Mesa) and you might get rid of it. If not, you get a look at their hand and you card pop.
And especially against Dragonstorm, it's very useful to pluck the Dragonstorm out of their hand and also see if they have acceleration, counters, and/or draw.
For the most part it's a pretty standard MBC as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking at fitting in a Stuffy Doll or two SB and possibly another tutor mainboard, even though House Guard hits most of what I'll need. The signets are acctually just in there for mana accel, gives me something for a second turn as Brainpry wasn't really doing it for me. Signet also gives them something unimportant to counter early game as well as a bit of deception and I've had people persecute for my off color for some reason.
Currently the four empty slots in sideboard were going to be for Deathmarks, but honestly don't feel that I need them with all the other removal that I run. Very cheap but just too conditional. Looking for some advice and such.
And yes, I know I'm only running 3x Consume Spirits.
Persecute is an awesome card. But not for this deck. I mean is a great sb card.
Against aggro they empty their hands pretty fast and against control it rarely resolves. Played along with Imp´s mischief can be really good.
Wow, I lost agaisnt a Solar Flare 2-0 yesterday. I have no chance at all.
t1 land (me t1 land)
t2 signet and land (me t2 brain pry i named castigate because i have no idea what i am playing against and miss)
t3 compulsive research (discard angel of despair) (me tap for phyrexian arena)
t4 dread return (destroy my arena)
t5 6 and 7 i can find damnation and gg.
i know that is a explosive start for a solar flare but can it re-emerge from its ashes?
if you have md grave hate like extirpate you shouldnt have too much of a problem. post boarding we have withered wretch and we can up the extirpates to 4. also, am i the only one on this thread who uses edicts? i play two and its been great for me so far, stopping single-creature startegies in its tracks.
I just played against the dredge/reanimator deck, and it was a very tough matchup. I ended up losing the turn before I woulda consumed him out, because he ran a singleton Traitor's Clutch (go ahead, look it up...I had to) that he used to swing with a shadowy 16/16 Grave-Troll while I had Batman on blocking duty. Tough matchup.
Anyway, we didn't have time for games 2 and 3, but I asked him how much Extirpate hurt him,a nd he said "depends." The first target should always be Grave-Troll, and the second should either be Dread Return (if he is threatening a big reanimation, like Akroma), or Stinkweed Imp, if he is still in grave-yard filling mode.
@Toolazy2Stand -
I too splash white for Castigate. Here's my list, which has been playing really, really well (I've added a good 30 points to my magic-league.com rating with this deck so far):
Persecute imo is okay for md because there is really nothing better. I run 3 of stupor, brain pry, and persecute...and it works.
Solar flare will always have that explosive start but it has not changed for the better since states. It does not have the power to stay around. Unlike dragonstorm, it is not powerful enough.
Today I crashed UW Tron. everytime he tap out for an assembly worker i play tendrils in response and avoid the buybacked spellburst. This, save me from dying because of two arenas in play.
He let me resolve a tutor, expecting to counter what i tutor for. I tutored ghost quarter and vanish his only defence (factory) against my totem that was resolved in t3; were he decided to dig with compulsive research). Right before, he rune snaged my brain pry because we was afraid of me naming one of the two remanding tron pieces that he had in hand
I wil cut 1 desert for 1 ghost quarter since aggro is pretty well controlled. i never found myself praying to draw a desert.
I just played against the dredge/reanimator deck, and it was a very tough matchup. I ended up losing the turn before I woulda consumed him out, because he ran a singleton Traitor's Clutch (go ahead, look it up...I had to) that he used to swing with a shadowy 16/16 Grave-Troll while I had Batman on blocking duty. Tough matchup.
wow. it sounds teachy.
if we have this as a tough matchup and with dralnu around (and also this resilent solar flare) should we go back to tormod's crypt in SB??? or Wretch is enough????(actually both are different) Are the threads strong enough to spend always slots of graveyard hate in the sb????
The thing about the Dredge deck is that it will be constantly fluctuating int he metagame. If not enough people are playing graveyard hate in theri SB, then it will start to get stronger. However, once that happens, people will start packing Tormod's Crypt, and that pretty much shuts down the dredge deck. Then, it will start to go away, so people won't sideboard grave hate as much, and the cycle will begin again.
I think that our deck is good enough against the graveyard based decks with just Extirpate, and we should devote our sideboard to more problematic matchups, like Dralnu and such. Wretch and Tormod's Crypt aren't that good agianst Dralnu, and Solar Flare itself isn't gonna be that hard for us unless they get their God draw, and even then, if we have the Extirpate then we can beat that, too.
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Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
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Anyway, now that I have that rant aside, back on Topic. My decklist is on the last page if anyone cares to check it out. I'm going to play that decklist this Friday, and I'll let you know how it works out. I'm really liking the Snow route to be honest, because it will get you past a topdeck land most of the time during your turn. I just wish that there was more playable Snow stuff. I was thinking of playing with the Phyrexian Ironfoot, it's cheap, almost has vinglance, and is Snow. The reason I'm not going to play it at the moment is because of Sudden Death. I will not play a win condition (I'm not really saying that I'm going to rely on it as a win condition, but you never know) that dies to Sudden Death. That is why no Sengir Nosferatu will ever be in my deck maindeck. Maybe as a one of some time down the road, but not right now. That is another reason that I'm leaning towards going with Plague Sliver as my primary win condition, because he is undercosted fat (with a minor drawback) in a color that is great at keeping the path cleared for their win condition. That is another topic I want to debate at the moment, is our win conditions. These I consider our playable win conditions (because Consume Spirit is going to be used as removal in some matchups and is never going to resolve against a counter-control deck if it is lethal), and I'm going to rate them, and I want to know how you guys feel about them:
Avatar of Woe-2
Stronghold Overseer-6
Helldozer-3
Skeletal Vampire-7
Sengir Nosferatu-4
Rolling Horror-1
Plague Sliver-5
So, in my opinion, we have 7 decent finishers. The best being Skeletal Vampire because he is evasive, is "multiple" threats in one, can stop an aggro deck in its heels, and is extreemly tough to kill. The second best is Stonghold Overseer because he is very much like Batman except he is only one threat, and if you tap out for him, you are very vulnerable to an attack. The third best is Plague Sliver because he is undercosted fat and randomly hoses decks. His major drawback is his lack of evasion, with a minor drawback of life drain, but that is easily dealt with in Black. For my fourth option, I would run Sengir Nosferatu because he is evasive and dodges everything short of mass removal, Sudden Death, and sacrifice effects (Cruel Edict type cards). After him would come Helldozer (which is sad because I have a playset of him, but can't find a use for him!) because if you untap with him, he will slowly eat away someone's mana base (who runs basics anyway?) and is fat, but he has no evasion and can't dodge removal. If desperate, I would run Avatar of Woe. In the right matchup, this card could be devasting, but it is to narrow for me. She has evasion, can kill creatures all day long, and is fat, but lacks the dodge factor (I really like evasive, nigh unkillable things, lol) and is usually to slow to get out effectively. Last, but not least, is my sleeper. I like the Rolling Horror for it's art work (had to make a note about that, it's sweet art work) and drain effect. It also could end the game the turn it comes into play as you get a free fattie with haste, allowing you to clear the path to swing for the victory. He seems like a potential excellent finisher (that is why I'm going to run two in my sideboard to side in against control) against control decks that don't allow you resolve/keep a threat long enough to make it matter. Plus, late game, he is like drawing cards for free because he would offset your Phyrexian Arena, and with two or three suspended, could be a control decks worst nightmare. Well, those are my thoughts about the finishers we have. I don't like the current artifacts available (save the Power Glove) in Standard as well for finishers. If we had a good man-land, it could be different, but that is not available at the moment.
P.S. Some of us run Urza's Factory (I do, I can't imagine running a deck without it now) and that as well is a great finisher for MBC.
—Szadek
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
Arguing over the Internet is like winning the special olympics.
Now i realize how good aeon chronicler is. get a gauntlet online, and put 8-10 counters on it, then get a big fatty or waste their counterspell.
IF you are so high on evasion, though, how can your 3rd favorite finisher be a smaller dude with no evasion, who makes you lose life? you would not play him turn 4 anyway, I don't see the sense in him being a 3rd option.
I haven't tested this yet, but here's the build I'm working on.
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Urza's Factory
1 Dreadship Reef
4 Damnation
4 Brain Pry
4 Consume Spirit
4 Extirpate (very good in my FNM metagame)
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Sudden Death
3 Phyrexian Totem
3 Persecute
2 Soul Spike
2 Dimir House Guard
1 Nightmare Void
1 Jester's Cap
1 Seize the Soul
4 Mindstab
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Defense Grid
2 Jester's Cap
1 Persecute
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Hey, you. Yes, you reading this sig. Get off your computer, go find a copy of Skies of Arcadia: Legends and play it. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.
Also I also always use Jester's Cap in g2. Watch out. A couple of times have found CoP Black for g2. Play Jester cap as fast as you can.
2 Skeletal Vampire
Artifacts
3 Phyrexian Totem
Enchantments
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Debtor's Knell
Instants
4 Funeral Charm
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Sudden Death
4 Extirpate
Sorceries
4 Damnation
4 Brain Pry
3 Consume Spirit
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Urza's Factory
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Desert
2 Dreadship Reef
16 Swamp
1 Sudden Death
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Jester's Cap
1 Repeal
4 Imp's Mischief
2 Stuffy Doll
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Persecute
3 Blackmail
At its best, it's Cabal Therapy.
The 3-drop slot is choked up with Arena, transmuting House Guard, Totem, Sudden Death, Stupor... well you get the idea. So a 2nd turn Pry makes for nice curving.
Against white decks, you name the card that you hate the most (CoP Black, Mask, Mesa) and you might get rid of it. If not, you get a look at their hand and you card pop.
And especially against Dragonstorm, it's very useful to pluck the Dragonstorm out of their hand and also see if they have acceleration, counters, and/or draw.
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Desert
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Skeletal Vampire
3 Phyrexian Totem
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Consume Spirit
2 Gauntlet of Power
3 Blackmail
4 Funeral Charm
4 Damnation
4 Brain Pry
3 Sudden Death
comments, please?
edit: btw, what's imp mischief and stuffy doll used against in your sideboard?
RGRG Big ManaRG
UB Classical Faeries UB
Imp's Mischief is best used vs LD. Nothing says "Screw you" then redirecting a Stone Rain at thier own lands.
RGRG Big ManaRG
UB Classical Faeries UB
Radha, Heir to Keld, Vorel of the Hull Clade, Kemba, Kha Regent, Vela the Night-Clad, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Barrin, Master Wizard, Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer, Patron of the Orochi, Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Thraximundar, Roon of the Hidden Realm, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Marath, Will of the Wild, Teneb, the Harvester
If you did this, tell me and I'll credit you!
T2:
Dralnu du Louvre
:snow::symg:Snowy Scryb & Force:symg::snow:
thanks to Craven for this banner!!!
15x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Molten Slagheap
Creatures
2x Dimir House Guard
3x Skeletal Vampire
Artifacts
2x Phyrexian Totem
4x Rakdos Signet
4x Damnation
2x Persecute
3x Extirpate
2x Sudden Death
4x Phyrexian Arena
3x Blackmail
3x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Consume Spirit
3x Soul Spike
2x Persecute
1x Extirpate
2x Sudden Death
1x Blackmail
3x Jester's Cap
2x Seize the Soul
4x ???
For the most part it's a pretty standard MBC as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking at fitting in a Stuffy Doll or two SB and possibly another tutor mainboard, even though House Guard hits most of what I'll need. The signets are acctually just in there for mana accel, gives me something for a second turn as Brainpry wasn't really doing it for me. Signet also gives them something unimportant to counter early game as well as a bit of deception and I've had people persecute for my off color for some reason.
Currently the four empty slots in sideboard were going to be for Deathmarks, but honestly don't feel that I need them with all the other removal that I run. Very cheap but just too conditional. Looking for some advice and such.
And yes, I know I'm only running 3x Consume Spirits.
edit: do we have any sideboard cards VS martyrtron?
RGRG Big ManaRG
UB Classical Faeries UB
T2:
Dralnu du Louvre
:snow::symg:Snowy Scryb & Force:symg::snow:
thanks to Craven for this banner!!!
Against aggro they empty their hands pretty fast and against control it rarely resolves. Played along with Imp´s mischief can be really good.
t1 land (me t1 land)
t2 signet and land (me t2 brain pry i named castigate because i have no idea what i am playing against and miss)
t3 compulsive research (discard angel of despair) (me tap for phyrexian arena)
t4 dread return (destroy my arena)
t5 6 and 7 i can find damnation and gg.
i know that is a explosive start for a solar flare but can it re-emerge from its ashes?
Anyway, we didn't have time for games 2 and 3, but I asked him how much Extirpate hurt him,a nd he said "depends." The first target should always be Grave-Troll, and the second should either be Dread Return (if he is threatening a big reanimation, like Akroma), or Stinkweed Imp, if he is still in grave-yard filling mode.
@Toolazy2Stand -
I too splash white for Castigate. Here's my list, which has been playing really, really well (I've added a good 30 points to my magic-league.com rating with this deck so far):
4 Godless Shrine
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Urza's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Damnation
4 Faith's Fetters
4 Sudden Death
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Castigate
3 Stupor
4 Consume Spirit
3 Phyrexian Totem
3 Skeletal Vampire
4 Extirpate
3 Persecute
3 Disenchant
3 Last Gasp
2 Wrath of God
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!
Persecute imo is okay for md because there is really nothing better. I run 3 of stupor, brain pry, and persecute...and it works.
Solar flare will always have that explosive start but it has not changed for the better since states. It does not have the power to stay around. Unlike dragonstorm, it is not powerful enough.
He let me resolve a tutor, expecting to counter what i tutor for. I tutored ghost quarter and vanish his only defence (factory) against my totem that was resolved in t3; were he decided to dig with compulsive research). Right before, he rune snaged my brain pry because we was afraid of me naming one of the two remanding tron pieces that he had in hand
I wil cut 1 desert for 1 ghost quarter since aggro is pretty well controlled. i never found myself praying to draw a desert.
wow. it sounds teachy.
if we have this as a tough matchup and with dralnu around (and also this resilent solar flare) should we go back to tormod's crypt in SB??? or Wretch is enough????(actually both are different) Are the threads strong enough to spend always slots of graveyard hate in the sb????
I think that our deck is good enough against the graveyard based decks with just Extirpate, and we should devote our sideboard to more problematic matchups, like Dralnu and such. Wretch and Tormod's Crypt aren't that good agianst Dralnu, and Solar Flare itself isn't gonna be that hard for us unless they get their God draw, and even then, if we have the Extirpate then we can beat that, too.
Thanks to Avatar for the rockin' Sig and Avvy!