I'm just going to come out and say that I am usually pretty bad at evaluating blue cards being that it's a color I rarely play. In going through the full spoiler list there are definitely a lot of really powerful cards IMO. The real question is will they find decks? Blue seems like it did not get any real all stars, but it got some very playable cards. Red though... red got kind of screwed. Collective defiance is not bad, but it's not what red needed. I think there are a few black cards though that will really improve existing madness decks. Anyways, what do you guys think? What are your top ten lists?
Everything after this is middling or worse. There's a ton of good cards to supplement previously existing strategies. The lower to the ground GB Delirium decks are hard to evaluate and don't turn on Delirium particularly efficiently.
@ Lugger
I think there are a lot of fairly powerful and unique cards in this set, but I think that some of them won't see play for a while due to the current format. I would agree about the delirium decks. I still think grim flayer is a great card though from a design stand point.
Happy to see Ishkanah in your list. I think it has a lot of potential.
Liliana's Elite reminds me of Tarmogoyf. It costs 1 mana more, though. If aggro/midrange black decks get off the basement floor it will be one of the top cards for sure.
Eldritch Evolution will likely replace CoCo post rotation as a way to 'cheat' creatures into play. Thank goodness it is not instant. CoCo shouldn't have been instant either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
i would have said gisela and maybe emrakul, but the existence of spell queller now pretty much removes tap out midrange/control decks from the meta when you've got a creature who can deny a wrath for a turn in addition to being evasive, having a relevant body and in colours where next turn you can just counter whatever your opponent does to try and remove the queller.
I forgot about Spell Queller hitting Languish. It also hits Collected Company. Since it's an ETB effect Essence Flux can re-trigger it for U (although they'd get the original spell back - so may not be worth it).
Very likely a metagame changer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Can't really come up with 10, but I think some love needs to be had for Dark Salvation. Its basically a 2/2 version of secure the wastes combined with removal, and I think it's making black look like a more attractive third color than red for Cryptotokens.
Can't really come up with 10, but I think some love needs to be had for Dark Salvation. Its basically a 2/2 version of secure the wastes combined with removal, and I think it's making black look like a more attractive third color than red for Cryptotokens.
Thought about including it, but I'm not sure whether it's efficient enough outside of the zombie deck (and I don't know how viable zombies actually are).
Spell queller seems good, but it also has the potential for complete blowouts. I mean say you snag a Languish, you then need to play the rest of your game around a sweeper that could be potentially played at instant speed on your own turn. Same thing with collected company. I think it is a very good card with a lot of potential, but I think the potential down side might be being overlooked a little. I mean people worry about getting blown out by a dromoka's command which is why many decks do not play silkwrap or stasis snare. This has the potential to be way worse in some situations. The only place I see this being really useful is if you are a turn away from finishing off an opponent and are able to snag something really critical. I think in control matchups though this card is kind of bad. This is my opinion though.
I do not think eldritch evolution is being overhyped by any means. Worse case scenario with this card you sacrifice a thraben inspector for a reflector mage. The tutor effect of this card is what makes it crazy powerful. You can tutor for a reflector mage when you need it, you can sac him for a goblin dark-dwellers if that is what you need. You can sac your sylvan advocate turn 3 for a though knot seer. There are a ton of possibilities with that card.
Spell queller seems good, but it also has the potential for complete blowouts. I mean say you snag a Languish, you then need to play the rest of your game around a sweeper that could be potentially played at instant speed on your own turn. Same thing with collected company. I think it is a very good card with a lot of potential, but I think the potential down side might be being overlooked a little. I mean people worry about getting blown out by a dromoka's command which is why many decks do not play silkwrap or stasis snare. This has the potential to be way worse in some situations. The only place I see this being really useful is if you are a turn away from finishing off an opponent and are able to snag something really critical. I think in control matchups though this card is kind of bad. This is my opinion though.
I do not think eldritch evolution is being overhyped by any means. Worse case scenario with this card you sacrifice a thraben inspector for a reflector mage. The tutor effect of this card is what makes it crazy powerful. You can tutor for a reflector mage when you need it, you can sac him for a goblin dark-dwellers if that is what you need. You can sac your sylvan advocate turn 3 for a though knot seer. There are a ton of possibilities with that card.
Remember that Spell Queller also plays exceedingly well with Eldrazi Displacer as well though.
i would have said gisela and maybe emrakul, but the existence of spell queller now pretty much removes tap out midrange/control decks from the meta when you've got a creature who can deny a wrath for a turn in addition to being evasive, having a relevant body and in colours where next turn you can just counter whatever your opponent does to try and remove the queller.
I forgot about Spell Queller hitting Languish. It also hits Collected Company. Since it's an ETB effect Essence Flux can re-trigger it for U (although they'd get the original spell back - so may not be worth it).
Very likely a metagame changer.
Spell queller's best targets are counter spells, since it would be rare you need a kill spell and counter spell at the same time, right next to each other on the stack.
The downside to queller is real though. It's like remand on a stick. Remand is never meant to deny the spell forever, but play a tempo game. If you think of queller like that, I think you'll play with it better. In modern, you have cards like mana leak, spell pierce, and spell snare to back up remand. Standard I would imagine it would be negate or clash of wills. mausoleum wanderer is a conditional counter for removal or sweeper.
Essence flux I would imagine be used more on rattlechains to give things hexproof unless you absolutely needed to counter something and it would be worth it to allow the original spell Spell Queller countered to be played instead of the new spell.
While Spell Queller gets more options in conjunction with Eldrazi Displacer, I don't think it's as insane as I've heard many mentioning. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but with the template, you need to bounce (not flicker) Spell Queller with its trigger on the stack in order to perma-exile a targeted spell. If your opponent plays a <=4CC spell, you play Queller with Displacer in play, then flicker in response to the ETB, you will succeed in fizzling the original triggers, but the original spell on the stack will still be around and re-gobbled up by the second instance of ETB Queller brought in by the flicker. So while Displacer can give you an instant speed way to swap out what's under the Queller for a new spell, it can't offer 3CUW-buyback-kicked-Prohibits. Now Spectral Shepherd, on the other hand...
Anyway, my top 10. I'm a little biased after seeing my friend's UW Spirits.
Distended Mindbender and Elder Deep-Fiend are going to shut out a lot of games. Get your Matter Reshaper now. Casting either of these off a reshaper turn 4 is a blow out.
Distended Mindbender and Elder Deep-Fiend are going to shut out a lot of games. Get your Matter Reshaper now. Casting either of these off a reshaper turn 4 is a blow out.
Having Murder back in the format is going to help a lot with these instances as well.
Distended Mindbender and Elder Deep-Fiend are going to shut out a lot of games. Get your Matter Reshaper now. Casting either of these off a reshaper turn 4 is a blow out.
Having Murder back in the format is going to help a lot with these instances as well.
Cast triggers. Your target will not be in play before you lands get tapped or murder discarded. You can float mana to cast murder after Elder Deep-Fiend. It still forces a 1 for 1 and your turn tempo.
Bedlam Reveler and Collective Defiance haven't been mentioned because they have RR in their costs and red is generally terrible in this format. I've tried to make red control work and concluded it's an Anger of the Gods away from being a deck.
Anyway, my list:
1. Spell Queller
2. Selfless Spirit
3. Mausoleum Wanderer
4. Gisela, the Broken Blade
5. Tamiyo, Field Researcher
6. Thalia, Heretic Cathar
7. Eldritch Evolution
8. Liliana, the Last Hope
9. Collective Brutality
10. Distended Mindbender
The last two spots are close calls with Ishkanah, Nebelgast Herald, Murder, and Emrakul all being contenders.
Mirrrowing Dragon - tells languish, Gisela, incendiary flow to outright shove off. Oh yea. Unflipped Avacyn doesn't trade. Oh, well you want to murder it? Say goodbye to your team. Turns Titans strength into a blowout with any weenies you have.
I have very nasty plans in modern for this as well, but man, why people are sleeping on this card is beyond me. A creatureless deck in standard seems very unlikely you will not benefit from an attempted murder on your dragon.
And Bedlam Reveler will be nuts in a red based Aggro shell with any of the red removal now available.
Both cards are busted. If Kaladesh brings some decent red cards, they'll see crazy amounts of play. But red aggro's main weakness right now is that it doesn't have creatures that match up with the ones in the big three decks right now (Bant Company, GW Tokens, and white weenie) combined with the fact that Dromoka's Command is legal in Standard, and red control's main weakness is the lack of a sweeper. Neither of these were addressed in EMN. The only exception I could see happening is if Vampires become a thing, in which case Reveler could see play as a curve-topper.
I think Splendid Reclamation may get broken and jump in importance and price, it seems like a card with a huge potential. But in the other hand it may never consolidate as a staple and just remain a cute card.
For Standard i think Spell Queller and EDF will have the most impact, along with Blessed Alliance.
I am fairly confident splendid reclamation will be broken or at least find a solid place in standard or modern. I see it being played in some kind of delirium/ramp in standard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What do you guys predict will be the top ten best cards from Eldritch Moon in the upcoming standard. Post your lists and discuss. Here is mine.
1. Splendid Reclamation
2. Eldritch Evolution
3. Emrakul, the promised end
4. Thalia, Heretic Cathar
5. Sigarda's Aid
6. CryptBreaker
7. Collective Brutality
8. Grim Flayer
9. Deploy the gatewatch
10.Spell Queller
Honorable mentions
incendiary flow
Oath of Liliana
Scour the Laboratory
Mausoleum Wanderer
Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Collective defiance
I'm just going to come out and say that I am usually pretty bad at evaluating blue cards being that it's a color I rarely play. In going through the full spoiler list there are definitely a lot of really powerful cards IMO. The real question is will they find decks? Blue seems like it did not get any real all stars, but it got some very playable cards. Red though... red got kind of screwed. Collective defiance is not bad, but it's not what red needed. I think there are a few black cards though that will really improve existing madness decks. Anyways, what do you guys think? What are your top ten lists?
Everything after this is middling or worse. There's a ton of good cards to supplement previously existing strategies. The lower to the ground GB Delirium decks are hard to evaluate and don't turn on Delirium particularly efficiently.
I think there are a lot of fairly powerful and unique cards in this set, but I think that some of them won't see play for a while due to the current format. I would agree about the delirium decks. I still think grim flayer is a great card though from a design stand point.
Happy to see Ishkanah in your list. I think it has a lot of potential.
Eldritch Evolution will likely replace CoCo post rotation as a way to 'cheat' creatures into play. Thank goodness it is not instant. CoCo shouldn't have been instant either.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
1. Spell Queller
2. Elder Deep-Fiend
3. Emrakul, the Promised End
4. Thalia, Heretic Cathar
5. Ishkanah, Grafwidow
6. Liliana, the Last Hope
7. Murder
8. Gisela, the Broken Blade
9. Nebelgast Herald
10. Grim Flayer
I think Splendid Reclamation is very good, but I'm not sure how much work it'll do in standard (same can be said about Bedlam Reveler).
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I forgot about Spell Queller hitting Languish. It also hits Collected Company. Since it's an ETB effect Essence Flux can re-trigger it for U (although they'd get the original spell back - so may not be worth it).
Very likely a metagame changer.
Overhyped, Tamiyo, field Researcher and Eldritch Evolution
Also excited for Tamiyo, Field Researcher and Emrakul, The Promised End.
Thought about including it, but I'm not sure whether it's efficient enough outside of the zombie deck (and I don't know how viable zombies actually are).
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
I do not think eldritch evolution is being overhyped by any means. Worse case scenario with this card you sacrifice a thraben inspector for a reflector mage. The tutor effect of this card is what makes it crazy powerful. You can tutor for a reflector mage when you need it, you can sac him for a goblin dark-dwellers if that is what you need. You can sac your sylvan advocate turn 3 for a though knot seer. There are a ton of possibilities with that card.
Remember that Spell Queller also plays exceedingly well with Eldrazi Displacer as well though.
Spell queller's best targets are counter spells, since it would be rare you need a kill spell and counter spell at the same time, right next to each other on the stack.
The downside to queller is real though. It's like remand on a stick. Remand is never meant to deny the spell forever, but play a tempo game. If you think of queller like that, I think you'll play with it better. In modern, you have cards like mana leak, spell pierce, and spell snare to back up remand. Standard I would imagine it would be negate or clash of wills. mausoleum wanderer is a conditional counter for removal or sweeper.
Essence flux I would imagine be used more on rattlechains to give things hexproof unless you absolutely needed to counter something and it would be worth it to allow the original spell Spell Queller countered to be played instead of the new spell.
Anyway, my top 10. I'm a little biased after seeing my friend's UW Spirits.
1. Spell Queller
2. Mausoleum Wanderer
3. Nebelgast Herald
4. Selfless Spirit
5. Unsubstantiate
5. Tamiyo, Field Researcher
6. Gisela, the Broken Blade
7. Thalia, Heretic Cathar
8. Liliana, the Last Hope
9. Collective Brutality
10. Sigarda's Aid <-- very speculative for Kaladesh
Having Murder back in the format is going to help a lot with these instances as well.
Cast triggers. Your target will not be in play before you lands get tapped or murder discarded. You can float mana to cast murder after Elder Deep-Fiend. It still forces a 1 for 1 and your turn tempo.
1. Bedlam Reveler
2. Splendid Reclamation
3. Tamiyo, field researcher
4. Spell Queller
5. thalia, heretic cathar
6. eldritch evolution
7. Emrakul, the promised end
8. collective defiance (again, criminally underrated)
9. elder deep fiend
10. decimator of provinces
Anyway, my list:
1. Spell Queller
2. Selfless Spirit
3. Mausoleum Wanderer
4. Gisela, the Broken Blade
5. Tamiyo, Field Researcher
6. Thalia, Heretic Cathar
7. Eldritch Evolution
8. Liliana, the Last Hope
9. Collective Brutality
10. Distended Mindbender
The last two spots are close calls with Ishkanah, Nebelgast Herald, Murder, and Emrakul all being contenders.
I have very nasty plans in modern for this as well, but man, why people are sleeping on this card is beyond me. A creatureless deck in standard seems very unlikely you will not benefit from an attempted murder on your dragon.
And Bedlam Reveler will be nuts in a red based Aggro shell with any of the red removal now available.
For Standard i think Spell Queller and EDF will have the most impact, along with Blessed Alliance.