mire boa is good... but he can easily cost me more mana than i can afford vs a 2/2... but i dont know, the boa would be AMAZING vs black... but the simian spirit guide only accels my first turn... the elves accel me for the rest of the game...
and yes... i am putting in the ledgewalker... so you can all stop bugging me about it
What made Stompy a bit viable in Legacy is the ability to generate mana without reliance on creatures (Elvish Spirit Guide, Land Grant), put threats into play for free (e.g. Vine Dryad), overcosted beaters (e.g. Rogue Elephant), and efficient pump (e.g. Rancor, Berserk).
As it stands, this deck has nothing of the above. 11 land and 12 mana critters (16 if you count the Rangers) might as well just be Forests, since you won't be attacking with them as you'll be casting spells with them. And it's bad when your opponent's ***/Damnation/Pyroclasm becomes mass LD as well.
I like the effort put into this, but basing it on a Legacy deck which has a *much* wider cardpool is wrong.
It's true that the legacy deck has many more options, however I feel that this deck has a really good chance of being competitive. Most of the decks in standard as of now would struggle to keep tempo with this deck. As for ***/Damnation/Pyroclasm, these are things that can be played around. Play enough creatures to put pressure on the opponent to force them to use *** or whatever and then simply drop out your creatures again...you have the pump spells to out race most decks that will be using mass removal anyways. Good work on the build
You know what? I'd actually use Utopia Sprawl instead of one of the mana creatures. It gives you back the mana it costs if you don't play it first turn, and it survives mass creature removal.
Edit: also the logic behind my recommendation for Simian Spirit Guide was that the Legacy deck works because, like Vintage, Legacy has access to a suite of broken sources of free mana (Land Grant, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, etc), so the inclusion of SSG over mana creatures that don't accel the turn they come out would make it closer to the Legacy deck.
utopia sprawl is not good in this deck... not only can it not swing... but it has awful synergy with scryb ranger... ie it dies and its not a creature i can untap...
and im not trying to make the same deck as in legacy... that deck was merely the inspiration for this deck
mire boa is good... but he can easily cost me more mana than i can afford vs a 2/2... but i dont know, the boa would be AMAZING vs black... but the simian spirit guide only accels my first turn... the elves accel me for the rest of the game...
and yes... i am putting in the ledgewalker... so you can all stop bugging me about it
The Kavu Predator might be a little better than boreal centaur, just because it's great against stuff like helix (you could pump it if they try to kill it), martyr, hierarch, firemane, etc. Maybe a sideboard card. Also, you might want to take out pitskulks for 3 mire boa + 1 yawgmoth's tomb... not necessarily better but the combo is really funny and the pit skulk seems like the worst card in your deck if you don't have a cloak, and if you do you want to put it on ledgewalker or sophisticate or ranger. These are not definite inclusions, just alternate possibilities.
Edit: also, concerning the pit-skulk, it's only good if your opponent has creatures and you have pump, and you probably need to be in the early game as well. Since there aren't too many decks that have creatures in the early game apart from the mirror, boros aggro, and occasionally court hussar, I think the pit-skulk could be sideboarded.
Edit again: Would gemstone caverns screw up your mana base too much? Because if you are going second it just says "win" sometimes.
utopia sprawl is not good in this deck... not only can it not swing... but it has awful synergy with scryb ranger... ie it dies and its not a creature i can untap...
But I heard there are afewcards that get played as creature removal that will decimate your entire mana base if you use all elves.
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The Kavu Predator might be a little better than boreal centaur, just because it's great against stuff like helix (you could pump it if they try to kill it)
if they helix a 2/2 Kavu Predator it stays a 2/2 and takes 3 it doesnt get +3/3 and survive
Yeah it does. Before it is checked for lethal damage, the other player with gain the life and he'll become a 5/5. It's like way If I was at 2 and you were at four, and I charred you, we'd tie.
if they helix a 2/2 Kavu Predator it stays a 2/2 and takes 3 it doesnt get +3/3 and survive
That is correct. This was actually ruled upon by judges over in the Rulings Forum. What happens is the Helix goes off. Kavu Predator takes three damage, opponent gains 3 life. Kavu Predator's +1/+1 counter ability triggers and goes on the stack. Active player gains priority, SBEs are checked. Kavu Predator dies as a 2/2 creature that has received lethal damage. Now that may not be the exact "rules" wording, but it's how it works...
With Char, the reason it's a tie is that SBEs aren't checked in the middle of the resolution of a spell. The two halves of Char effectively happen simultaneously.
But I believe, anyway, that the original mention of the Predator was that you could Giant Growth it in response to the Helix, to keep it alive... THEN it would gain the counters and live.
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Absolutely. My version DOES run 4x Brute Force, but I thought that I would rather have Invocation than Frenzy. But it's still a work in progress. Maybe after a little testing, I will switch some things around.
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They love and hate to see me walk through the door. I'm the man with the box, one to carry all his Standard cards with him. I've got the commons and uncommons they need. But I've also got my decks. If I walk into FNM, I came to play. And they never know what I'm gonna pull out of my hat next. I may lose more than I win, but it just might be THIS deck that has all the answers that they don't have answers for. They fear the unknown. They fear me. And they never see me coming!
Quite honestly the closest parallels you can run to Legacy stompy is by playing it in red. It's got the Spirit Guides, the Berserk, the Giant Growth, and other efficient mana accel in cards like Rites of Flame, and whatnot. Radha is probably the key to doing this, as others have stated. Are there any other instant speed creatures in green or red aside from Ashcoat Bears, because she could really be abused for that. Attack with radha, Giant Growth + Bears. Just my thoughts on the matter. Also Kird Ape = good times. With a suite of creatures like: Kird Ape, Pit-Skulk, Scryb Ranger, Mire Boa, Sylhana Ledgewalker and the like you are getting close to a Legacy style line-up. The problem is really in the back up spells, and the overall tempo, because try as you might you will never get the same tempo as 9land has. Then again this is Standard, so you just might not need it.
Edit: Some card idea's: Dust Corona; It's a pseudo Rancor, nowhere near as good, but it is a constant pump and it makes Ledgewalker unblockable. Not that it wasn't already. Taste for Mayhem; same idea, hellbent fits pretty well.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Quite honestly the closest parallels you can run to Legacy stompy is by playing it in red. It's got the Spirit Guides, the Berserk, the Giant Growth, and other efficient mana accel in cards like Rites of Flame, and whatnot. Radha is probably the key to doing this, as others have stated. Are there any other instant speed creatures in green or red aside from Ashcoat Bears, because she could really be abused for that. Attack with radha, Giant Growth + Bears. Just my thoughts on the matter. Also Kird Ape = good times. With a suite of creatures like: Kird Ape, Pit-Skulk, Scryb Ranger, Mire Boa, Sylhana Ledgewalker and the like you are getting close to a Legacy style line-up. The problem is really in the back up spells, and the overall tempo, because try as you might you will never get the same tempo as 9land has. Then again this is Standard, so you just might not need it.
Since the Scrybs are included anyway, and the Bear is just a bear... both of the red creatures have possibilities. Having said that, I would consider placing them in SB only. Sulfur is anti-White, and Bladescout's giving First Strike is situational.
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They love and hate to see me walk through the door. I'm the man with the box, one to carry all his Standard cards with him. I've got the commons and uncommons they need. But I've also got my decks. If I walk into FNM, I came to play. And they never know what I'm gonna pull out of my hat next. I may lose more than I win, but it just might be THIS deck that has all the answers that they don't have answers for. They fear the unknown. They fear me. And they never see me coming!
The deck isnt supposed to be the same as the legacy version... its just inspired by it
and if i were to add red... it would destroy the deck... the consistantcy would be screwed up
ok... so ive been playtesting it... it can beat any deck... but it can also lose to any deck... ive noticed that i need another groundbreaker... and to lose a stonewood invocation... i really need to test it against the full gauntlet tho
What's wrong with striving to reach the original. I realise the format requires an altered play strategy, but cards like Radha and Kird Ape are hard to overlook.
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Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I like the build a lot.
Not loving the Centaur, but I can sort of see the point.
What I'm not getting is why only 1 Pendelhaven... I know you can only have 1 in play, but wouldn't 9 forest 2 Pendelhaven increase your chances of having that one in play?
With all the 1x mana critters you playing tap pendelhaven-> attack with 2/3 mana critter is definately a strong play, sure it may as well say GG Target creature gets +1/+2 (when using a mana critter). But it's still a recurring pump.
and yes... i am putting in the ledgewalker... so you can all stop bugging me about it
so here is the decklist as it stands...
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Martyr of Spores
4 Boreal Centaur
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Dryad Sophisticate
4 Scryb Ranger
2 Groundbreaker
4 Stonewood Invocation
3 Moldervine Cloak
10 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Pendelhaven
figure of destiny = charmander
mulldrifter = counsel-man
profane command = pro manuver
As it stands, this deck has nothing of the above. 11 land and 12 mana critters (16 if you count the Rangers) might as well just be Forests, since you won't be attacking with them as you'll be casting spells with them. And it's bad when your opponent's ***/Damnation/Pyroclasm becomes mass LD as well.
I like the effort put into this, but basing it on a Legacy deck which has a *much* wider cardpool is wrong.
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Edit: also the logic behind my recommendation for Simian Spirit Guide was that the Legacy deck works because, like Vintage, Legacy has access to a suite of broken sources of free mana (Land Grant, Elvish Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, etc), so the inclusion of SSG over mana creatures that don't accel the turn they come out would make it closer to the Legacy deck.
and im not trying to make the same deck as in legacy... that deck was merely the inspiration for this deck
figure of destiny = charmander
mulldrifter = counsel-man
profane command = pro manuver
The Kavu Predator might be a little better than boreal centaur, just because it's great against stuff like helix (you could pump it if they try to kill it), martyr, hierarch, firemane, etc. Maybe a sideboard card. Also, you might want to take out pitskulks for 3 mire boa + 1 yawgmoth's tomb... not necessarily better but the combo is really funny and the pit skulk seems like the worst card in your deck if you don't have a cloak, and if you do you want to put it on ledgewalker or sophisticate or ranger. These are not definite inclusions, just alternate possibilities.
Edit: also, concerning the pit-skulk, it's only good if your opponent has creatures and you have pump, and you probably need to be in the early game as well. Since there aren't too many decks that have creatures in the early game apart from the mirror, boros aggro, and occasionally court hussar, I think the pit-skulk could be sideboarded.
Edit again: Would gemstone caverns screw up your mana base too much? Because if you are going second it just says "win" sometimes.
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But I heard there are a few cards that get played as creature removal that will decimate your entire mana base if you use all elves.
if they helix a 2/2 Kavu Predator it stays a 2/2 and takes 3 it doesnt get +3/3 and survive
What? You might want to check your math, mate; last I heard, 4 - 4 = 0.
That is correct. This was actually ruled upon by judges over in the Rulings Forum. What happens is the Helix goes off. Kavu Predator takes three damage, opponent gains 3 life. Kavu Predator's +1/+1 counter ability triggers and goes on the stack. Active player gains priority, SBEs are checked. Kavu Predator dies as a 2/2 creature that has received lethal damage. Now that may not be the exact "rules" wording, but it's how it works...
With Char, the reason it's a tie is that SBEs aren't checked in the middle of the resolution of a spell. The two halves of Char effectively happen simultaneously.
But I believe, anyway, that the original mention of the Predator was that you could Giant Growth it in response to the Helix, to keep it alive... THEN it would gain the counters and live.
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Absolutely. My version DOES run 4x Brute Force, but I thought that I would rather have Invocation than Frenzy. But it's still a work in progress. Maybe after a little testing, I will switch some things around.
Edit: Some card idea's:
Dust Corona; It's a pseudo Rancor, nowhere near as good, but it is a constant pump and it makes Ledgewalker unblockable. Not that it wasn't already.
Taste for Mayhem; same idea, hellbent fits pretty well.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Possible flash creatures for green are only Ashcoat Bear and Scryb Ranger (2cc each).
Possible flash creatures for red are only Sulfur Elemental and Viashino Bladescout (3cc each).
Since the Scrybs are included anyway, and the Bear is just a bear... both of the red creatures have possibilities. Having said that, I would consider placing them in SB only. Sulfur is anti-White, and Bladescout's giving First Strike is situational.
and if i were to add red... it would destroy the deck... the consistantcy would be screwed up
ok... so ive been playtesting it... it can beat any deck... but it can also lose to any deck... ive noticed that i need another groundbreaker... and to lose a stonewood invocation... i really need to test it against the full gauntlet tho
figure of destiny = charmander
mulldrifter = counsel-man
profane command = pro manuver
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Not loving the Centaur, but I can sort of see the point.
What I'm not getting is why only 1 Pendelhaven... I know you can only have 1 in play, but wouldn't 9 forest 2 Pendelhaven increase your chances of having that one in play?
With all the 1x mana critters you playing tap pendelhaven-> attack with 2/3 mana critter is definately a strong play, sure it may as well say GG Target creature gets +1/+2 (when using a mana critter). But it's still a recurring pump.
add a SC forest... bump it up to 4 groundbreakers... and add the 4th cloak... and that seems to be working well...
also... SB vs wrath affects... fecundity also seems to be working
figure of destiny = charmander
mulldrifter = counsel-man
profane command = pro manuver