Confiscate was also very good for me, it was only a one of in the board, and was actually only there because I didnt have time to borrow the cards that were supposed to be in the sideboard. The cool thing is that it won me the 2nd game of my 7th, 8th, and quarterfinal matches. In all of those games, my opponent played a cop:red early and I ended up either confiscating an urza factory, or an Akroma, and keeping the confiscate in play was never a problem for me.
I have to say, it could have been a fluke, and the game I stole urza's factory the confiscate could have just as well been an annex, I just happened to not have one in hand at the time.
It seems to me that someone should at least test the card. It can be annex 5-6 (2 seems like the right number) or can actually win you the game. So i'm going to test it as a 2 of, but I don't know when that testing will actually happen.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
But from my experience, Tron decks don't run Annex in the first place.
I do agree with swish, they have run it in the Sideboard for a long time, and they won't be taking it out any time soon, and can I ask you all one question? Why did you cut out all green and the Simic Sky Swallower when it is a cheaper winning conditiion than Bogardan Hellkite. Although you have all cut it out for Rune Snags or Mana Leaks into the deck, will only stall for you until you get the right cards, and when you do, it may be too late because if you think about it:
Re-animators and/or many control decks (GOOD PLAYERS ONLY) will be able reanimate their Akromas before you can even get a Hellkite to swing once....
Zoos and/or aggros will beat you before turn 5(and usually you woldn't even have tron by then)
thus leaving you with a bunch of uncommon decks which you MAY be able to beat eg.Dragonstorm.
You may think what I just said makes no entire sense, but with more creatures in you deck, your bound to draw once of them in you first hand, and I can almost guarentee it. If you think is screws with your mana base, then think again. Isn't that why we have the tron in the first place?. to provide us with the expensiveness(if thats a word) of this deck, and being able to drop a signet early on, it almost guarentees us(well thats what I've experienced) the game. I know this contradicts my post earlier above, but I have done over 200 matches of testing during the last 2 days(I am preparing this deck for November the 26th, I have a tournament then) and it has proved itself worth with a splash of green, but can do with some adjustments. I do ask for help, BUT DO NOT TELL ME TO TAKE OUT GREEN,
here is the link if your willing to help me http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=57163
Confiscate seems like a good 2-of in the sb. It answers a resolved Akroma, doubles as Annex and deals with other difficult threats we're sure to encounter (like Knell).
Annex was run, is run and probably should be run against the Control matchup to seal the deal with Wildfire, as Swish said.
I don't like the inclusion of G, I find that with 12 tron taking up so many nonU-R slots that the manabase is shaky enough. I don't want to add to that by including a third colour in a deck that can already have issues drawing coloured mana. Also, many situations can be thought of in which hellkite is better or worse than SSS. But with Flash, hellkite can come down against permission if they tap-out on your EoT. SSS would probably never resolve.
Also too everyone who is playing sulferous blast over cheaper removal isn't it too slow? When I don't have spot removal early against like zoo and such i tend to lose around turn 5-6, and a card thats not wrath turn 3-4 seems too slow. Also everyone seems to have at least a few erratic SB choices, care to explain them? The MD differences seem to be pretty superficial right now, but the random Confiscates and stuff in the board and such don't seem to be anygood.
Heres a recap of my board and what stuff is there for:
4 Annex- Eats karoos, opposing tron, and punishes unstable mana bases
3 Imaginary pet- Is bigger than any 2-3 drop that comes at you, eats burn will usually give you 1-2 more turns vs aggro, and sometimes lot more(I've won a single game with 2 of them swinging)
3 Weight of Spires- Destroy target creature is good yeah?
3 Muse Vessel- Against blue based control, you can usually eat their hand, and in the mirror you will really get crucial cards. Seriously can most decks really take losing a card every turn? I usually win if my vessel sticks.
2 Reiterate- This is really for only 3 matchups, U/x control, Solar Flare, and the mirror. It allows for lower point lethal demonfires, makes stuff uncounterable sometimes, and can fork a lethal demofire back at the opponent.
Stuff I don't have in:
Shadow of doubt/trickbind/fortune thief: Against any decent opponent playing dragon storm they'll gigadrowse you EOT and you lose anyway unless you have 2 trickbind. Its not a good matchup and I don't feel its worth wasting the slot on to slightly improve it.
Confiscate: It dies every time I play it. Seriously It never does anything, and is a worse win condition than whatever you have maindeck. Pass.
I have the same concerns about Sulfurous Blast. It does help against Ape/Ohran/Watchwolf, but as you say, waiting until turn 3-4 (assuming you have RR might not work, especially when it also deals damage to you. That being said, its the best mass removal we have that isnt Wildfire, as pyroclasm is good against weenies but not much else.
I think you might be right about the Dragonstorm matchup, too. Its not a good matchup for us, just move on and try your best and dont devote cards to the slots if they will only marginally improve our matchup.
Something that bears consideration: Serrated Arrows. Its in a few lists but probably deserves more discussion. It can handle Paladin en-Vec and Soltari Priest, whereas a lot of our removal cant touch them.
I have the same concerns about Sulfurous Blast. It does help against Ape/Ohran/Watchwolf, but as you say, waiting until turn 3-4 (assuming you have RR might not work, especially when it also deals damage to you. That being said, its the best mass removal we have that isnt Wildfire, as pyroclasm is good against weenies but not much else.
Thats the really the problem, if you resolve sulfurous blast on the draw turn 4, you are probably already at like ~10 life or so against zoo, and possibly lower, depending on how many counters/repeals you've cast so far. That blast puts you in a very very burnable range. Sadly though it is the best we have outside of Wildfire, and depending on your meta, it might actually be the correct choice.
I think you might be right about the Dragonstorm matchup, too. Its not a good matchup for us, just move on and try your best and dont devote cards to the slots if they will only marginally improve our matchup.
Thats what I was trying to get across, if your opponent lets you trickbind the storm on their dragon storm, because they let you have blue open, not only are they bad at playing the deck, they are probably playing a bad build. My dragon storm configuration out of the board is +3 muse vessel +4 annex. If you can get a vessel or two down fast you should be able to pull it out as they need basically a full hand to combo off.
Something that bears consideration: Serrated Arrows. Its in a few lists but probably deserves more discussion. It can handle Paladin en-Vec and Soltari Priest, whereas a lot of our removal cant touch them.[/card]
Maybe its just me, but I'm really not having problems with the decks that run either the priest or the paladin. These decks tend to have a slower clock than zoo/GR beats/MGA aand they don't play pump. Its essentially keep pro-red guy off the field, wildfire, rinse repeat. Boros/WW seems to really kill around turn 6-7 with a decent draw, and they don't play disruption MD, and the only pump they might play is griffin guide. That really seems to set up nice easy games for me.
I really think the arrows would be awesome against Glare, or GU aggro to kill all of their x/1's, but it seems to be too slow. I'll test it though, I'm seeing a lot less of zoo and the like, so I can squeeze them into my imaginary pet spot.
Also to everyone having success with confiscate, do people not play disenchant/seed spark/naturalize out of the board against you? They know you are going to board in annex in anytype of control matchup, and they can really disrupt your sigs with cheap effective artifact desruction. Not to mention Solar Flare(which always has disenchant against me) plays Angel of Despair, which can kill confiscate nicely. Seriously I'm confused, I regularly get disenchant effects boarded in against me, or is artifact/enchantment removal not even in peoples boards where you guys play?
@Swishandamiss:
Triskelavus is better than Triskelion, simply because of the synergy with academy ruins. Plus, you can play him, then on their turn block a flying creature, resp remove his counters, then recur him with ruins at EOT. Next turn, repeat--you will soon have a lot of tokens.
He is RETARDED with ruins in play. Check out the article on SCG by Evan Erwin where he gets curbstomped by it.
Utter facemeltage.
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"Your mom is so fat she can block as though she had flying." -Random FNM quote
no at regionals i ran serrated arrows and if u want to see my list here:
look at 3rd palce
serrated arrows is very good against glare and UG http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/champs06/standardmn
the reason triskellion is better because of no cost and can be easier to hardcast, there actually is a diff between 6 and 7
the reason triskellion is better because of no cost and can be easier to hardcast, there actually is a diff between 6 and 7
They are different cards... Since when is Grizzly Bears better than Trained Armadon? One costs less but dies to pyroclasm... the other is double-costed but kills most X/3 creatures in the format... but that's not the reason one is better than the other. Same thing with Trike/Triskelavus... but anyway, it's very irrelevant to compare the two in a vacuum, especially when only 1 of them is T2 legal.
I really like Govern the Guildless over Confiscate here. It can't be hit with Disenchant, Wipe Away, Mortify, Naturalize, Boomerang, Repeal, etc.
Besides, almost all of the cards that would be hit with Confiscate can also be hit with GtG, except Angel of Despair of course.
Too bad GtG doesn't hit Debtor's Knell, Phyrexian Arena, Izzet Signet, Azorius Chancery, or anything like that...
And what, does Angel of Despair have Protection from Blue or something? I don't see where you're coming from... It's not like you can use forecast or anything...
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They are different cards... Since when is Grizzly Bears better than Trained Armadon? One costs less but dies to pyroclasm... the other is double-costed but kills most X/3 creatures in the format... but that's not the reason one is better than the other. Same thing with Trike/Triskelavus... but anyway, it's very irrelevant to compare the two in a vacuum, especially when only 1 of them is T2 legal.
Too bad GtG doesn't hit Debtor's Knell, Phyrexian Arena, Izzet Signet, Azorius Chancery, or anything like that...
And what, does Angel of Despair have Protection from Blue or something? I don't see where you're coming from... It's not like you can use forecast or anything...
Oh, I thought Confiscate was an enchant creature!
I was like "wtf.." looking at all of these lists. And forecasting the GtG on the Angel was the only disadvantage I found, which is why I pointed it out.
Anyone heard of the new Blue, Red, White Tron?
I heard it's a really new deck, and in most places, no-one knows what the decklists are, and I know about this from a friend who came back from states.
All I know is that it runs Akroma, Wrath of Gods and Draining Whelks and alsoDemonfire as win conditions, and I think it also runs Firemane Angels (not too sure)
edit-Also runs demonfires
Anyone heard of the new Blue, Red, White Tron?
I heard it's a really new deck, and in most places, no-one knows what the decklists are, and I know about this from a friend who came back from states.
All I know is that it runs Akroma, Wrath of Gods and Draining Whelks and alsoDemonfire as win conditions, and I think it also runs Firemane Angels (not too sure)
edit-Also runs demonfires
My friend made a deck like that pre-rotation and it was EXTREMLY greedy. It won a FNM or 2 so its prob pretty good.
Has anyone tested my 26 land build yet? I still think its really consistant and you almost ALWAYS hit your land drops which is extremly important.
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I said I'm not sure. I mean, I want to have children, but I could change my mind down the road, or simply have my testicles cut off in some kind of freak accident. It's just too early for me to tell.
Anyone heard of the new Blue, Red, White Tron?
I heard it's a really new deck, and in most places, no-one knows what the decklists are, and I know about this from a friend who came back from states.
All I know is that it runs Akroma, Wrath of Gods and Draining Whelks and alsoDemonfire as win conditions, and I think it also runs Firemane Angels (not too sure)
edit-Also runs demonfires
Actually, I saw a version like that, except that it was mainly a UW Tron deck with a R splash. Something like 1 Akroma, Wraths, Firemanes, and Demonfires, kind of like you said. It just seems like regular old UWR Firemane control with Tron for the Demonfire "oops I win" factor... well, and the Spell Burst "oops I don't lose" thing...
EDIT: I think it ran prismatic lenses along with 4-5 signets, to make sure you hit the WW and WWW for Wrath/Akroma, and I guess to make sure you can recur Firemane when you need to...
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Actually, I saw a version like that, except that it was mainly a UW Tron deck with a R splash. Something like 1 Akroma, Wraths, Firemanes, and Demonfires, kind of like you said. It just seems like regular old UWR Firemane control with Tron for the Demonfire "oops I win" factor... well, and the Spell Burst "oops I don't lose" thing...
EDIT: I think it ran prismatic lenses along with 4-5 signets, to make sure you hit the WW and WWW for Wrath/Akroma, and I guess to make sure you can recur Firemane when you need to...
Do you have a decklist or something??
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Have any of you guys seen the Mono-blue tron deck thats in the japanese champs? I was skimming the top-8 decklists, and it caught me by surprize and looked very interesting. It ran 4 bottle Gnomes, 3 triskelavus, academy ruins, and a few other artifacts with sac effects. For those of you that have seen it, what do you think about it?
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"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"
Have any of you guys seen the Mono-blue tron deck thats in the japanese champs? I was skimming the top-8 decklists, and it caught me by surprize and looked very interesting. It ran 4 bottle Gnomes, 3 triskelavus, academy ruins, and a few other artifacts with sac effects. For those of you that have seen it, what do you think about it?
I like it, it harkens back too the original version, which I ran.
I'll play that one.
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I have to say, it could have been a fluke, and the game I stole urza's factory the confiscate could have just as well been an annex, I just happened to not have one in hand at the time.
It seems to me that someone should at least test the card. It can be annex 5-6 (2 seems like the right number) or can actually win you the game. So i'm going to test it as a 2 of, but I don't know when that testing will actually happen.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Currently losing with:
W Midrange White (Standard)
UB Faeries (Block)
have you checked every sb in tron history?
tron always runs annex in control mirrors so it can keep more tron in the wildfire
I do agree with swish, they have run it in the Sideboard for a long time, and they won't be taking it out any time soon, and can I ask you all one question? Why did you cut out all green and the Simic Sky Swallower when it is a cheaper winning conditiion than Bogardan Hellkite. Although you have all cut it out for Rune Snags or Mana Leaks into the deck, will only stall for you until you get the right cards, and when you do, it may be too late because if you think about it:
Re-animators and/or many control decks (GOOD PLAYERS ONLY) will be able reanimate their Akromas before you can even get a Hellkite to swing once....
Zoos and/or aggros will beat you before turn 5(and usually you woldn't even have tron by then)
thus leaving you with a bunch of uncommon decks which you MAY be able to beat eg.Dragonstorm.
You may think what I just said makes no entire sense, but with more creatures in you deck, your bound to draw once of them in you first hand, and I can almost guarentee it. If you think is screws with your mana base, then think again. Isn't that why we have the tron in the first place?. to provide us with the expensiveness(if thats a word) of this deck, and being able to drop a signet early on, it almost guarentees us(well thats what I've experienced) the game. I know this contradicts my post earlier above, but I have done over 200 matches of testing during the last 2 days(I am preparing this deck for November the 26th, I have a tournament then) and it has proved itself worth with a splash of green, but can do with some adjustments. I do ask for help, BUT DO NOT TELL ME TO TAKE OUT GREEN,
here is the link if your willing to help me
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=57163
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
Annex was run, is run and probably should be run against the Control matchup to seal the deal with Wildfire, as Swish said.
I don't like the inclusion of G, I find that with 12 tron taking up so many nonU-R slots that the manabase is shaky enough. I don't want to add to that by including a third colour in a deck that can already have issues drawing coloured mana. Also, many situations can be thought of in which hellkite is better or worse than SSS. But with Flash, hellkite can come down against permission if they tap-out on your EoT. SSS would probably never resolve.
I have the same concerns about Sulfurous Blast. It does help against Ape/Ohran/Watchwolf, but as you say, waiting until turn 3-4 (assuming you have RR might not work, especially when it also deals damage to you. That being said, its the best mass removal we have that isnt Wildfire, as pyroclasm is good against weenies but not much else.
I think you might be right about the Dragonstorm matchup, too. Its not a good matchup for us, just move on and try your best and dont devote cards to the slots if they will only marginally improve our matchup.
Something that bears consideration: Serrated Arrows. Its in a few lists but probably deserves more discussion. It can handle Paladin en-Vec and Soltari Priest, whereas a lot of our removal cant touch them.
Thats the really the problem, if you resolve sulfurous blast on the draw turn 4, you are probably already at like ~10 life or so against zoo, and possibly lower, depending on how many counters/repeals you've cast so far. That blast puts you in a very very burnable range. Sadly though it is the best we have outside of Wildfire, and depending on your meta, it might actually be the correct choice.
Thats what I was trying to get across, if your opponent lets you trickbind the storm on their dragon storm, because they let you have blue open, not only are they bad at playing the deck, they are probably playing a bad build. My dragon storm configuration out of the board is +3 muse vessel +4 annex. If you can get a vessel or two down fast you should be able to pull it out as they need basically a full hand to combo off.
Maybe its just me, but I'm really not having problems with the decks that run either the priest or the paladin. These decks tend to have a slower clock than zoo/GR beats/MGA aand they don't play pump. Its essentially keep pro-red guy off the field, wildfire, rinse repeat. Boros/WW seems to really kill around turn 6-7 with a decent draw, and they don't play disruption MD, and the only pump they might play is griffin guide. That really seems to set up nice easy games for me.
I really think the arrows would be awesome against Glare, or GU aggro to kill all of their x/1's, but it seems to be too slow. I'll test it though, I'm seeing a lot less of zoo and the like, so I can squeeze them into my imaginary pet spot.
Also to everyone having success with confiscate, do people not play disenchant/seed spark/naturalize out of the board against you? They know you are going to board in annex in anytype of control matchup, and they can really disrupt your sigs with cheap effective artifact desruction. Not to mention Solar Flare(which always has disenchant against me) plays Angel of Despair, which can kill confiscate nicely. Seriously I'm confused, I regularly get disenchant effects boarded in against me, or is artifact/enchantment removal not even in peoples boards where you guys play?
Triskelavus is better than Triskelion, simply because of the synergy with academy ruins. Plus, you can play him, then on their turn block a flying creature, resp remove his counters, then recur him with ruins at EOT. Next turn, repeat--you will soon have a lot of tokens.
He is RETARDED with ruins in play. Check out the article on SCG by Evan Erwin where he gets curbstomped by it.
Utter facemeltage.
-Random FNM quote
look at 3rd palce
serrated arrows is very good against glare and UG
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/champs06/standardmn
the reason triskellion is better because of no cost and can be easier to hardcast, there actually is a diff between 6 and 7
Besides, almost all of the cards that would be hit with Confiscate can also be hit with GtG, except Angel of Despair of course.
Also, why am I not seeing any Simic Sky Swallower anymore? Personally I run 3 SSS and 2 Hellkite.
Random AIM convo:
Xsaber57 (7:31:18 PM): Listen!
RedFalcon912 (7:31:26 PM): stfu Navi
They are different cards... Since when is Grizzly Bears better than Trained Armadon? One costs less but dies to pyroclasm... the other is double-costed but kills most X/3 creatures in the format... but that's not the reason one is better than the other. Same thing with Trike/Triskelavus... but anyway, it's very irrelevant to compare the two in a vacuum, especially when only 1 of them is T2 legal.
Too bad GtG doesn't hit Debtor's Knell, Phyrexian Arena, Izzet Signet, Azorius Chancery, or anything like that...
And what, does Angel of Despair have Protection from Blue or something? I don't see where you're coming from... It's not like you can use forecast or anything...
Oh, I thought Confiscate was an enchant creature!
I was like "wtf.." looking at all of these lists. And forecasting the GtG on the Angel was the only disadvantage I found, which is why I pointed it out.
Random AIM convo:
Xsaber57 (7:31:18 PM): Listen!
RedFalcon912 (7:31:26 PM): stfu Navi
I heard it's a really new deck, and in most places, no-one knows what the decklists are, and I know about this from a friend who came back from states.
All I know is that it runs Akroma, Wrath of Gods and Draining Whelks and alsoDemonfire as win conditions, and I think it also runs Firemane Angels (not too sure)
edit-Also runs demonfires
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
My friend made a deck like that pre-rotation and it was EXTREMLY greedy. It won a FNM or 2 so its prob pretty good.
Has anyone tested my 26 land build yet? I still think its really consistant and you almost ALWAYS hit your land drops which is extremly important.
Actually, I saw a version like that, except that it was mainly a UW Tron deck with a R splash. Something like 1 Akroma, Wraths, Firemanes, and Demonfires, kind of like you said. It just seems like regular old UWR Firemane control with Tron for the Demonfire "oops I win" factor... well, and the Spell Burst "oops I don't lose" thing...
EDIT: I think it ran prismatic lenses along with 4-5 signets, to make sure you hit the WW and WWW for Wrath/Akroma, and I guess to make sure you can recur Firemane when you need to...
Do you have a decklist or something??
98% of the internet population has a MySpace. If you are part of the 2% that isn't emo, put this in your sig.
I have something I like, but I wanna see other lists first.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...s06/standardmn
thats me
i would cut the whipsers of the muse for a 3rd hellkite
I like it, it harkens back too the original version, which I ran.
I'll play that one.