Yeah these decks do hold up well against Bant Company as they only really have Dromoka's Command and Declaration in stone for removal which Declaration is a problem, but that card is honestly just a good spot removal. But Reflector mage and Queller are just easy to avoid.
Spirits is a little more annoying, but side in some Advanced Stitchwing to block super well, but with most of these decks the removal we carry mostly can wipe them out of the air. Maybe bring in Kozilek's Return to surprise clear their board or maybe Savage Alliance since most of their team have 1 toughness also the ability to give our zombie trample only makes them better.
The mono-white weenie decks are super painful matches. Remove those first strikers ASAP. Also good to side in Advanced Stitchwing for its big toughness and some kind of board wipe to clear the board.
Tokens well I really haven't seen much of it since EMN so I'm not sure if it is going to return as a major arch type, but honestly Displacement Wave and counters should do it in.
Please do let me know how that deck does work out. Thank you.
Timeos, I am currently running 2 Elder Deep-Fiend, they're pretty great. It doesn't come up often, but this deck is the only one that can get him into play on turn 3, provided you can get a turn 1 discard and turn 2 Stichwing Skaab. It's not always useful, but it can slow down human's attack on the life total. His biggest contribution in my list is as a way to use Kozilek's Return.
On Geralf's Masterpiece. Aside from late game top deck, I rarely ever hard cast. My goal is always to dump it to the GY and cast it for 4. The 3 discards ensures he enters play as at least a 4/4 (typically a 6/6, though). I also like that I can attack with him when he's a lower power/toughness and revive a zombie as a "combat trick" to boost his damage. I really like how these zombies play together.
I like PB's list too, but as is well known, I'm not a big fan of Tormenting Voice. I'd much rather have Catalog instead since this deck allows you to do so much on your opponent's turn. I also like that Catalog doesn't require you to have an extra card in hand to cast it. You can top deck it with an empty hand and cast it on the spot (and by 'on the spot' i mean on your opponent's EOT lol). In that list, I'd run 4 main deck catalog and 2 sideboard Artificer's Epiphany.
GB Emerge/Zulaport Cutthroat deck -- Foul Emissary, Catacomb Sifter, Distended Mindbender, & various Scion producers. First game I just played 2 Stitchwings and kept attacking in the air. He couldn't draw any removal (used an earlier Ultimate Price on my Infiltrator) and they went unblocked the rest of the game. He was able to cast one Mindbender but all I had in hand was an Amalgam and a land. Game 2 I sided in a few more Galvanic Blasts and was able to keep his Zulaports and Emissaries off the board with burn and just kept swinging in with an Eldrazi Horror (I was able to get one hit in with Infiltrator before he was Ultimate Priced again) until he scooped.
GB Delirium -- First game he conceded on turn three because he accidentally skipped through his first two turns Game two I was able to burn his Grim Flayer and Tireless Tracker. He played a Liliana and before he passed to his end step, I brought back a Stitchwing and Amalgam to the battlefield and take her out. He Grasp of Darknessed and Dead Weight-ed both of them, played another Liliana and I just recurred my zombies once again. He ended up scooping. Not sure what was going on with my opponent, honestly.
Mono R Burn -- I got a slow start Game 1 then I took a few burn spells to the face, 2 'bolts' from casting Lightning Axes on 2 Thunderbreaks, a couple other random damage, and an Exquisite Firecraft finisher. Game 2 I burned his first Thermo-Alchemist and Weaver of Lightning. He got stuck on 3 lands and I powered out a Chandra (sided in) and tried to race him. He scooped. Game 3 I burned his Neonate and Alchemist. He passed a few turns and played slow - wasn't sure if he flooded out or just was trying to think what to do next. He eventually played a Thunderbreak, I axed it and brought back a Stitchwing bringing 2 Amalgams back. He scooped and said "I'm too high for this".
RB Vampires -- Game 1 I just got overwhelmed with creatures. Game 2 turned into topdeck wars. He had a Haunted Dead that he kept recurring but I had more power bringing back my Stitchwing and 2 Amalgams. Game 3 I was able to burn away his madness enabling creatures and eventually powered out a Geralf's Masterpiece. He didn't really have anything big enough to handle it and I ended up winning.
I think that's it for now -- I may play a bit more later. All-in-all I think the deck does fairly well. I still don't really like Nahiri's Wrath - maybe I'm still using it wrong but I just find myself dumping my hand way too fast when I decide to play it.
Unfortunately I didn't to bring in the Bedlam Reveler for these games. I really think it would've done well in the instances where I was empty-handed too quickly.
Nahiri's Wrath (when I've used it) has been mostly good against taking out a big or well-defended Planeswalker or two 3,4,or 5 toughness creatures. Not sure if replacing it for Return would satisfy that need. I also haven't faced any match-ups (yet, at least) where I've needed/wanted a 2 damage sweeper. Hey, if it works for you then that's cool.
I did think about Fevered Visions at one point. Maybe I could sideboard the Wraths to make room.
I'd be curious to see how the original build fares against the top decks of the meta before I make too many changes. Its weird how I didn't play any Bant Company last night
I don't really think its a good idea to complicate the manabase just for 4 cards (we don't necessarily need black to play Amalgam). Using Karsten's Mana Guide you'd essentially need 12 black sources in the deck to reliably cast Prized Amalgams and/or Radiant Flames on turn 3.
I could see you wanting to cast it T3 against something like White Weenies. Even if you plan on waiting on T7 to cast it, Karsten's math suggest 9 black sources. I just think if your trying to jam 4 Sunken Hollow/Choked Estuary, 4 Smoldering Marsh/Foreboding Ruins, and 1-4 Swamps you run the risk of slowing your whole deck down and missing your T2 Infiltrator or not having double red for a Lightning Axe/Fiery Temper combo
You're more than welcome to try it out. I just think its a bit unnecessary since the deck is already fairly decent at controlling the board with burn.
If interested, here's some tourney footage of discard to revive zombies vs bant co. It doesn't show much, but there is definitely some fun getting Amalgams back. I like the use of Voldaren Pariah (card=Abolisher of Bloodlines]flip[/card]) in his list. I feel like Dark Salvation would've probably been a better card in his list than Ultimate Price. It does show just how overwhelming a game with zombies can be though.
I've been proxying PB's deck that I'm going to use at fnm this week. Have only played my friend's deck which is GW humans and he plays a cheaper alternative to the deck list so I can't really use that as an example. However I've found that I get rid of my hand pretty quickly even without Nahiri's wrath, so I now use Kozilek's Return instead of the wraths. Might side them in against bigger creatures, but a combination of Lightning Axes and other burn can usually deal with them. I have yet to try out the Wraths alongside Bedlam Revelers. Also just want to say that Tormenting Voice offers insane card advantage in this deck, with the added benefit to discard Prized Amalgam/Geralf's Masterpiece/Stitchwing Skaab/Fiery Temper.
I personally don't like cards like Tormenting Voice in this deck. The zombies will drain your hand quickly and you need something that's going to add cards to your hand. Tormenting Voice doesn't do that. You play it, you discard a card, and then you get 2 cards. Your hand size goes -2+2, so you don't get any extra cards in hand. Even if you discard a zombie, it's not going to change that you haven't gotten any closer to pulling a zombie back from the GY.
Cards like Take Inventory do much better. the first one does the same thing as Tormenting, but every one after the first add cards to the hand. If you're mid game with 1 in the yard and you top deck it with an empty hand, you get 2 cards which lets your bring back your Skaab/Haunted Dead. In the same scenario, if you top deck a Tormenting with an empty hand, you can't even play it. Even if you're using a card like Catalog (which I recommend over Tormenting because it's an instant, but I wouldn't play it either), you can still play it, but you still end up with the same amount of cards in hand as when you started. You STILL have to wait until next turn before you can bring a zombie back.
My only advice when it comes to building with these zombies is you have to play with card draw that is going to add cards to your hand. I play UR, so I play Fevered Visions with Take Inventory. If you're not playing UR, I'd recommend cards like Read the Bones or Altar's Reap, to a lesser extent Merciless Resolve. I particually like Altar's Reap because zombies come back. Merciless Resolve works well in a zombie deck especially if you have Drownyard Temple.
I personally don't like cards like Tormenting Voice in this deck. The zombies will drain your hand quickly and you need something that's going to add cards to your hand. Tormenting Voice doesn't do that. You play it, you discard a card, and then you get 2 cards. Your hand size goes -2+2, so you don't get any extra cards in hand. Even if you discard a zombie, it's not going to change that you haven't gotten any closer to pulling a zombie back from the GY.
Cards like Take Inventory do much better. the first one does the same thing as Tormenting, but every one after the first add cards to the hand. If you're mid game with 1 in the yard and you top deck it with an empty hand, you get 2 cards which lets your bring back your Skaab/Haunted Dead. In the same scenario, if you top deck a Tormenting with an empty hand, you can't even play it. Even if you're using a card like Catalog (which I recommend over Tormenting because it's an instant, but I wouldn't play it either), you can still play it, but you still end up with the same amount of cards in hand as when you started. You STILL have to wait until next turn before you can bring a zombie back.
My only advice when it comes to building with these zombies is you have to play with card draw that is going to add cards to your hand. I play UR, so I play Fevered Visions with Take Inventory. If you're not playing UR, I'd recommend cards like Read the Bones or Altar's Reap, to a lesser extent Merciless Resolve. I particually like Altar's Reap because zombies come back. Merciless Resolve works well in a zombie deck especially if you have Drownyard Temple.
You are right about Tormenting Voice. My deck rn does run out of a hand pretty quickly and Tormenting Voice is only neutrally drawing me cards. Are you running Nahiri's Wrath as well? If I take away Tormenting Voice then the only way to start getting zombies into the graveyard would be by either using a Lightning Axe or by having a Wharf Infiltrator out and attacking (which isn't always reliable). If I try out Take Inventory I will need to bring in the Nahiri's Wraths which actually sounds like a better option thinking it over.
Take Inventory and Fevered Visions both seem like very great CA to me. Could you please post your UR list, I am curious and eager to try this out?
Timeos is nice enough to keep my list updated on the first page, you can check it out there or my post on the 2nd page that has it.
In the list, I'm using Kozilek's Return and Elder Deep-Fiend as sweepers. I like K's Return because it's graveyard abuse like the rest of the deck. It also allows me to discard it early to revive a zombie without much impact to my overall gameplan since I can cast EDF to get an even bigger sweep out of it. I also like that EDF's flash lets me sweep at instant speed. That's helpful against the Avacyns and Selfless Spirits that are out there.
I use Insolent Neonate or Lightning Axe to get my first zombie into the GY. After that, they do enough discarding by themselves to keep it going.
You're right, Fevered Visions and Take Inventory really help to keep the hand full of gas. What I like best about Take Inventory is there's little reason to cast the 1st copy. You definitely can use it as discard fodder for your first zombie. Then it's sitting the GY waiting for your 2nd copy to come along. That's incredibly useful. I feel really good about where my deck is at right now. It seems as if I have the right number of zombies, early discard, early discard fodder and card drawing. One thing I'm likely to do is drop out the black mana completely and just rely on dumping Prized Amalgams from my hand.
My list is built to be a sort of flash deck. Since you can return the zombies on your opponent's turn. you should. You should do everything possible on opponent's turns. Leaving your mana open on your turn gives you the option of casting counterspells on your opponent or at least threatening it. Then if nothing big comes down, get your zombie back and improve your board position.
Don't forget that Broken Concentration has madness, so if you have enough mana, in response to your opponent's spell, you can return a zombie, discard Broken Concentration as part of the cost, and then counterspell for the madness cost. It's also important to note that reviving Geralf's Masterpiece and madness casting Broken Concentration is the highest mana cost play in the whole deck, so don't be afraid to discard lands to pay for zombies. Especially after you hit 8 mana.
I haven't been able to get a lot of testing in the last month, but I have gotten some in. In my testing, I'm finding removal to be far less useful. We either run into situations where it doesn't work, like against cards like Emrakul, or it's too late against because the ETB or When Cast effect has already happened, like with Ishkanah, Grafwidow or Decimator of the Provinces. I've played games with heavy removal, heavy bounce and heavy counters. I've also played with different combinations of the 3. Counterspells seem to be the most effective. The deck is also slow enough that hard counters matter more than soft ones. Also as Emrakul and the other Eldrazi start becoming more and more of the meta, Summary Dismissal is going to become much more important. I especially like how it can stop the eldrazi, stop the when cast effect and stop the K's Return trigger in the GY.
We also need to be prepared for some possibly splash damage from the GY hate that's coming since Emrakul and Delirium are becoming more attractive options. Counterspells help us address this too.
Welcome to the thread. Love new people, new ideas and new perspectives.
I particularly don't care for Lupine Prototype all that much. I feel it's best used in concert with cards that care about high creature power and/or toughness.
I feel like, in this archtype, I feel like my list is probably able to empty it's hand fastest, since I can bring zombies back zombies starting on Turn 2. I can only empty mine on turn 4 at the earliest, and that's only if I'm bringing a zombie back on turns 2, 3 and 4. That wouldn't leave me a chance to cast the Lupine. But IF I was able to cast him on turn 4 and have an empty hand on turn 5, he'd be a easily chump blocked creature.
The bigger problem is, to bring the zombies back, i need cards in hand. For the artifact wolf to attack or block, i need to be hellbent. So, I'd either have to commit to the Prototype or commit to the the zombies. They don't really work together. At least that's how I see it.
For my 2nd time in a row, we drafted for FNM, so I still don't have much in the way of results. I only make it to every other FNM, thanks to my work schedule, so that's a whole month of no standard. I did draft Emrakul, the Promised End in my first pack, so I'm not too upset though.
I did manage a couple of casual games of standard last night though.
Game 1 - Deck DID NOT work as intended. No early discard... I had to wait until turn 4 before I could cast my first, non-Take Inventory spell. So turn 4, I cast Stitchwing Skaab. Void Shattered. The exile hurt. Turn 5 another Skaab. Void Shattered again... Turn 6 Geralf's Masterpiece, countered, but not exiled, but it didn't matter because I died on the Turn 7 combat step.
Games 2 - Deck DOES work as intended. His counterspells are dead in hand as I cast only 2 spells during the game (Turn 2 Insolent Neonate, Turn 4 Lightning Axe killing Rattlechains in response to a flashed in Selfless Spirit, and spent the rest of the game bringing zombies back from the GY and keeping mana open for counter magic.
There was no game 3 since the draft was about to start. A teenager who was observing fell in love with the deck while watching. He likes my Izzet version, but says he wants to go Grixis. If he puts something together, I'll see if he'll let me copy his decklist so I can post it. (It was early Neonate, getting Skaab and discarding Amalgam to pay for it, and getting all of them back that piqued his interest.)
Game 1 - Deck worked as intended. 2nd turn Neonate lead to 3rd turn Advanced Stitchwing. Next turn my K's-Return took out his Cutthroat and Impetuous Devils at instant speed. Then Turn 6 on my opponents upkeep, I emerged EDF tapping down his lands, hitting K's Return in the GY and sweeping the board. Brought my Stitchwing that same turn and swung for lethal on my turn.
This happened after the draft; it was late, so we only played 1 game. Hopefully we'll have a stronger showing in the next FNM I'm able to attend, and I'll get more testing in.
The inconsistency of my deck has been bugging me lately. When I get a turn 1 discard followed up with an EoTurn2 Skaab, the deck is hard to beat. In generally, getting zombies to revive before turn 4 feels strong against a lot of decks. The problem comes when I either don't get early discard or don't get an early zombie. No early discard means hardcasting a 3/1 on turn 4.... not really exciting. And no early zombies makes the game nearly unwinnable.
I actually went through a couple of iterations before I settled on my reluctant solution.
First, I looked into adding more turn 1 discard. Slim pickens in that dept. The only other card I could find that offered discard for a turn 2 Stitchwing Skaab (other than Neonate and Lightning Axe, which I already run), was Stern Constable. It would mean that I'd have to go Jeskai, which I'm not entirely opposed to, but other white cards didn't seem like a strong fit. The Constable didn't feel like a strong choice either.
I also considered going back to Grixis and possibly dropping red altogether and running Dimir. That would mean giving up turn 1 discard and leaning more on the "3 drop" geralf's zombies (Advanced Stitchwing and Ghoulsteed), or maybe going to something using like Haunted Ghoul and Voldaren Pariah (flip). It's not bad, but I had to cut too many cards I really liked and didn't really have good replacements for them, like Fevered Visions.
So, where I settled, really didn't make me all that happy, but it does fix both problems.
I'm such a sellout, lol. There are plenty of posts of me saying how I don't like this card because it doesn't keep the zombie engine going (because it doesn't add cards to the hand), and how it's a sorcery when the deck loves instants, but barring a nugget from Kaladesh (and I'm starting to lose hope), it's the best I've got. It's early discard, which the deck needs more of, and it digs down to find an early zombie if I don't have one.
I've also felt Geralf's Masterpiece to be less useful than the other 2 blue zombies. Don't get me wrong, he typically comes down as a 6/6 flying, which is great, but the flying 3/x zombies seem to finish out games just as well. (Flying feels so strong right now). I took the 2 copies out of the main, and moved them to the side. Stitchwing Skaab really hurts against Liliana, the Last Hope.
Anyway, here's the new list. Timeos, if you could be so kind to update me on the first page. Thanks.
I've played a few games and goldfished a lot more, and the deck seems a lot more consistant. Voice still feels underwhelming though. Most of the time after the early game, it seems I'm just using it as discard fodder. Sometimes it helps me dig through some land topdecks. I'm really hoping Kaladesh gives us something good.
Yeah, I saw that too. Not being a big fan of Tormenting Voice, I'm not a huge fan of that either, but considering the role Tormenting is going to play (early discard, early digging, late game zombie discard fodder), that is probably a better card for what I want since it digs deeper. I'll probably use that instead of Tormenting when Kaladesh drops.
And of course I'll be going into fastlands too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Spirits is a little more annoying, but side in some Advanced Stitchwing to block super well, but with most of these decks the removal we carry mostly can wipe them out of the air. Maybe bring in Kozilek's Return to surprise clear their board or maybe Savage Alliance since most of their team have 1 toughness also the ability to give our zombie trample only makes them better.
The mono-white weenie decks are super painful matches. Remove those first strikers ASAP. Also good to side in Advanced Stitchwing for its big toughness and some kind of board wipe to clear the board.
Tokens well I really haven't seen much of it since EMN so I'm not sure if it is going to return as a major arch type, but honestly Displacement Wave and counters should do it in.
Please do let me know how that deck does work out. Thank you.
On Geralf's Masterpiece. Aside from late game top deck, I rarely ever hard cast. My goal is always to dump it to the GY and cast it for 4. The 3 discards ensures he enters play as at least a 4/4 (typically a 6/6, though). I also like that I can attack with him when he's a lower power/toughness and revive a zombie as a "combat trick" to boost his damage. I really like how these zombies play together.
I like PB's list too, but as is well known, I'm not a big fan of Tormenting Voice. I'd much rather have Catalog instead since this deck allows you to do so much on your opponent's turn. I also like that Catalog doesn't require you to have an extra card in hand to cast it. You can top deck it with an empty hand and cast it on the spot (and by 'on the spot' i mean on your opponent's EOT lol). In that list, I'd run 4 main deck catalog and 2 sideboard Artificer's Epiphany.
GB Emerge/Zulaport Cutthroat deck -- Foul Emissary, Catacomb Sifter, Distended Mindbender, & various Scion producers. First game I just played 2 Stitchwings and kept attacking in the air. He couldn't draw any removal (used an earlier Ultimate Price on my Infiltrator) and they went unblocked the rest of the game. He was able to cast one Mindbender but all I had in hand was an Amalgam and a land. Game 2 I sided in a few more Galvanic Blasts and was able to keep his Zulaports and Emissaries off the board with burn and just kept swinging in with an Eldrazi Horror (I was able to get one hit in with Infiltrator before he was Ultimate Priced again) until he scooped.
GB Delirium -- First game he conceded on turn three because he accidentally skipped through his first two turns Game two I was able to burn his Grim Flayer and Tireless Tracker. He played a Liliana and before he passed to his end step, I brought back a Stitchwing and Amalgam to the battlefield and take her out. He Grasp of Darknessed and Dead Weight-ed both of them, played another Liliana and I just recurred my zombies once again. He ended up scooping. Not sure what was going on with my opponent, honestly.
Mono R Burn -- I got a slow start Game 1 then I took a few burn spells to the face, 2 'bolts' from casting Lightning Axes on 2 Thunderbreaks, a couple other random damage, and an Exquisite Firecraft finisher. Game 2 I burned his first Thermo-Alchemist and Weaver of Lightning. He got stuck on 3 lands and I powered out a Chandra (sided in) and tried to race him. He scooped. Game 3 I burned his Neonate and Alchemist. He passed a few turns and played slow - wasn't sure if he flooded out or just was trying to think what to do next. He eventually played a Thunderbreak, I axed it and brought back a Stitchwing bringing 2 Amalgams back. He scooped and said "I'm too high for this".
RB Vampires -- Game 1 I just got overwhelmed with creatures. Game 2 turned into topdeck wars. He had a Haunted Dead that he kept recurring but I had more power bringing back my Stitchwing and 2 Amalgams. Game 3 I was able to burn away his madness enabling creatures and eventually powered out a Geralf's Masterpiece. He didn't really have anything big enough to handle it and I ended up winning.
I think that's it for now -- I may play a bit more later. All-in-all I think the deck does fairly well. I still don't really like Nahiri's Wrath - maybe I'm still using it wrong but I just find myself dumping my hand way too fast when I decide to play it.
Unfortunately I didn't to bring in the Bedlam Reveler for these games. I really think it would've done well in the instances where I was empty-handed too quickly.
I agree with Nahiri's Wrath. It dumps the hand really fast. It's why I play with Kolizek's Return instead.
I like Bedlam Reveler, I'm not sold on it for this deck. Have you considered Fevered Visions. It really helps get cards in hand.
Nahiri's Wrath (when I've used it) has been mostly good against taking out a big or well-defended Planeswalker or two 3,4,or 5 toughness creatures. Not sure if replacing it for Return would satisfy that need. I also haven't faced any match-ups (yet, at least) where I've needed/wanted a 2 damage sweeper. Hey, if it works for you then that's cool.
I did think about Fevered Visions at one point. Maybe I could sideboard the Wraths to make room.
I'd be curious to see how the original build fares against the top decks of the meta before I make too many changes. Its weird how I didn't play any Bant Company last night
You're more than welcome to try it out. I just think its a bit unnecessary since the deck is already fairly decent at controlling the board with burn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDg-RVUuXrQ
Zombies around the 27 min mark.
Cards like Take Inventory do much better. the first one does the same thing as Tormenting, but every one after the first add cards to the hand. If you're mid game with 1 in the yard and you top deck it with an empty hand, you get 2 cards which lets your bring back your Skaab/Haunted Dead. In the same scenario, if you top deck a Tormenting with an empty hand, you can't even play it. Even if you're using a card like Catalog (which I recommend over Tormenting because it's an instant, but I wouldn't play it either), you can still play it, but you still end up with the same amount of cards in hand as when you started. You STILL have to wait until next turn before you can bring a zombie back.
My only advice when it comes to building with these zombies is you have to play with card draw that is going to add cards to your hand. I play UR, so I play Fevered Visions with Take Inventory. If you're not playing UR, I'd recommend cards like Read the Bones or Altar's Reap, to a lesser extent Merciless Resolve. I particually like Altar's Reap because zombies come back. Merciless Resolve works well in a zombie deck especially if you have Drownyard Temple.
You are right about Tormenting Voice. My deck rn does run out of a hand pretty quickly and Tormenting Voice is only neutrally drawing me cards. Are you running Nahiri's Wrath as well? If I take away Tormenting Voice then the only way to start getting zombies into the graveyard would be by either using a Lightning Axe or by having a Wharf Infiltrator out and attacking (which isn't always reliable). If I try out Take Inventory I will need to bring in the Nahiri's Wraths which actually sounds like a better option thinking it over.
Take Inventory and Fevered Visions both seem like very great CA to me. Could you please post your UR list, I am curious and eager to try this out?
In the list, I'm using Kozilek's Return and Elder Deep-Fiend as sweepers. I like K's Return because it's graveyard abuse like the rest of the deck. It also allows me to discard it early to revive a zombie without much impact to my overall gameplan since I can cast EDF to get an even bigger sweep out of it. I also like that EDF's flash lets me sweep at instant speed. That's helpful against the Avacyns and Selfless Spirits that are out there.
I use Insolent Neonate or Lightning Axe to get my first zombie into the GY. After that, they do enough discarding by themselves to keep it going.
You're right, Fevered Visions and Take Inventory really help to keep the hand full of gas. What I like best about Take Inventory is there's little reason to cast the 1st copy. You definitely can use it as discard fodder for your first zombie. Then it's sitting the GY waiting for your 2nd copy to come along. That's incredibly useful. I feel really good about where my deck is at right now. It seems as if I have the right number of zombies, early discard, early discard fodder and card drawing. One thing I'm likely to do is drop out the black mana completely and just rely on dumping Prized Amalgams from my hand.
My list is built to be a sort of flash deck. Since you can return the zombies on your opponent's turn. you should. You should do everything possible on opponent's turns. Leaving your mana open on your turn gives you the option of casting counterspells on your opponent or at least threatening it. Then if nothing big comes down, get your zombie back and improve your board position.
Don't forget that Broken Concentration has madness, so if you have enough mana, in response to your opponent's spell, you can return a zombie, discard Broken Concentration as part of the cost, and then counterspell for the madness cost. It's also important to note that reviving Geralf's Masterpiece and madness casting Broken Concentration is the highest mana cost play in the whole deck, so don't be afraid to discard lands to pay for zombies. Especially after you hit 8 mana.
I haven't been able to get a lot of testing in the last month, but I have gotten some in. In my testing, I'm finding removal to be far less useful. We either run into situations where it doesn't work, like against cards like Emrakul, or it's too late against because the ETB or When Cast effect has already happened, like with Ishkanah, Grafwidow or Decimator of the Provinces. I've played games with heavy removal, heavy bounce and heavy counters. I've also played with different combinations of the 3. Counterspells seem to be the most effective. The deck is also slow enough that hard counters matter more than soft ones. Also as Emrakul and the other Eldrazi start becoming more and more of the meta, Summary Dismissal is going to become much more important. I especially like how it can stop the eldrazi, stop the when cast effect and stop the K's Return trigger in the GY.
We also need to be prepared for some possibly splash damage from the GY hate that's coming since Emrakul and Delirium are becoming more attractive options. Counterspells help us address this too.
I particularly don't care for Lupine Prototype all that much. I feel it's best used in concert with cards that care about high creature power and/or toughness.
I feel like, in this archtype, I feel like my list is probably able to empty it's hand fastest, since I can bring zombies back zombies starting on Turn 2. I can only empty mine on turn 4 at the earliest, and that's only if I'm bringing a zombie back on turns 2, 3 and 4. That wouldn't leave me a chance to cast the Lupine. But IF I was able to cast him on turn 4 and have an empty hand on turn 5, he'd be a easily chump blocked creature.
The bigger problem is, to bring the zombies back, i need cards in hand. For the artifact wolf to attack or block, i need to be hellbent. So, I'd either have to commit to the Prototype or commit to the the zombies. They don't really work together. At least that's how I see it.
I did manage a couple of casual games of standard last night though.
3 Advanced Stitchwing
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
2 Geralf's Masterpiece
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stitchwing Skaab
Sorceries 4
4 Take Inventory
Instants 12
4 Broken Concentration
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Lightning Axe
3 Negate
4 Fevered Visions
Lands 21
4 Highland Lake
4 Island
9 Mountain
4 Wandering Fumarole
2 Blessed Reincarnation
4 Compelling Deterrence
2 Fiery Temper
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Learn from the Past
3 Summary Dismissal
Match 1 - UW Spirits, heavy counterspell package.
Match 2 - RB Zulaport Cutthroat/Impact Tremors combo. This deck used those cards plus cards like Dance with Devils. It was a fun list. Hardly competitive, though.
I actually went through a couple of iterations before I settled on my reluctant solution.
First, I looked into adding more turn 1 discard. Slim pickens in that dept. The only other card I could find that offered discard for a turn 2 Stitchwing Skaab (other than Neonate and Lightning Axe, which I already run), was Stern Constable. It would mean that I'd have to go Jeskai, which I'm not entirely opposed to, but other white cards didn't seem like a strong fit. The Constable didn't feel like a strong choice either.
I also considered going back to Grixis and possibly dropping red altogether and running Dimir. That would mean giving up turn 1 discard and leaning more on the "3 drop" geralf's zombies (Advanced Stitchwing and Ghoulsteed), or maybe going to something using like Haunted Ghoul and Voldaren Pariah (flip). It's not bad, but I had to cut too many cards I really liked and didn't really have good replacements for them, like Fevered Visions.
So, where I settled, really didn't make me all that happy, but it does fix both problems.
I'm such a sellout, lol. There are plenty of posts of me saying how I don't like this card because it doesn't keep the zombie engine going (because it doesn't add cards to the hand), and how it's a sorcery when the deck loves instants, but barring a nugget from Kaladesh (and I'm starting to lose hope), it's the best I've got. It's early discard, which the deck needs more of, and it digs down to find an early zombie if I don't have one.
I've also felt Geralf's Masterpiece to be less useful than the other 2 blue zombies. Don't get me wrong, he typically comes down as a 6/6 flying, which is great, but the flying 3/x zombies seem to finish out games just as well. (Flying feels so strong right now). I took the 2 copies out of the main, and moved them to the side. Stitchwing Skaab really hurts against Liliana, the Last Hope.
Anyway, here's the new list. Timeos, if you could be so kind to update me on the first page. Thanks.
4 Advanced Stitchwing
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stitchwing Skaab
Sorceries 8
4 Take Inventory
4 Tormenting Voice
Instants 11
3 Broken Concentration
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Lightning Axe
3 Negate
3 Fevered Visions
Lands 21
2 Highland Lake
8 Island
7 Mountain
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Compelling Deterrence
2 Fiery Temper
2 Geralf's Masterpiece
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Learn from the Past
3 Summary Dismissal
I've played a few games and goldfished a lot more, and the deck seems a lot more consistant. Voice still feels underwhelming though. Most of the time after the early game, it seems I'm just using it as discard fodder. Sometimes it helps me dig through some land topdecks. I'm really hoping Kaladesh gives us something good.
And of course I'll be going into fastlands too.