So here's a core build using the whole Brooding Saurian + Sky Swallower Combo. It's worked alright so far. I haven't Played any games really so far. It seems alright in theory, but I might need some sort of removal, which makes me wanna splash red or black or something, but I might just need some bounce so I can swing in for the win. It seems like it would do ok against aggro, but might not be able to handle the amount of creatures it sends out.
I didn't even know something like brooding saurion existed.........
Cool combo. if you need more removal then make your lands snow and add mmouth of ronom. great removal i say and its being used everywhere(well not everywhere but a lot of places).
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I hate to say this but this is a very difficult combo. nine mana to pull it off an your opponent gets your lands so you have to pull two forests and two other lands and the lizard before your opponent kill you with all of his increadible mana advantage. Think about it. when have you ever pulled this combo off?
While I do agree that the combo is fragile, I like to point out it doesn't take 9 mana. Play Saurian turn 4 and SS turn 5. Saurian works the same for both players.
How about Plaxcaster Frogling? Not only is he a 3/3 for 3, but by grafting counters onto your combo, he invalidates every single piece of spot removal in T2. That's pretty damn powerful.
While I do agree that the combo is fragile, I like to point out it doesn't take 9 mana. Play Saurian turn 4 and SS turn 5. Saurian works the same for both players.
that involves playing saurian on turn four, not protecting him because you just tapped out for him. then doing the same thing for another turn. This is a bad combo and should be left alone.
that involves playing saurian on turn four, not protecting him because you just tapped out for him. then doing the same thing for another turn. This is a bad combo and should be left alone.
Ok. What combos aren't bad? And I mean real Johnny Combos. Like Izzet Guildmage, Lava Spike, Desperate Ritual, not Heartbeat. I don't consider that combo at all. It's fun, and there is Removal, so how about Sheilding Plax for the Brooding Saurian? Besides, with the excel in this deck, you could easily play him and protect him turn 4.
The only Problem would really be protecting Sky Swallower after the Permanents switch, but maybe I could just tap 2 mana and take the burn if they don't play anything, or what? I could get seven mana out by turn 5, turn 6 if things are going that bad.
Mouth of Ronom sounds like a good idea, but I was looking for something that could get rid of stuff faster, like some of the 3/3's that zoo pops out of it's butt in no time flat.
I thought about Plaxcaster Frogling, and I like him a lot, but idk if I'll ever see myself being able to use his ability when I really need it. But I am considering Sheilding Plax... Anymore thoughts?
well, plaxcaster froggling is key to protecting both your Brooding Surian as well as your Sky Swallower. It's definitely a 4-of. A lot of decks like this run 3-4 bronze bombshell, which I feel is the best win condition for this deck.
What about just using the Plaxmanta? one less which makes it more possible since you only need it for one turn and doubles as a creature if you have UG, which you should.
About Plaxcaster Frogling, I love him and all, but I want to be able to protect Brooding Saurian while I lose all my stuff... And I Just realized that Shielding Plax wouldn't help because I would be the opponent... But anyway, I guess I would just have to risk taking mana burn.
I like Plaxmanta, but does it's effect not help Brooding Saurian when they switch control? Because I don't control it anymore, but does the effect last because I controlled him when I played Plaxmanta? Then it would be a good add in. But I also want to be able to stop Wrath of God. That sucks a lot.
Um the second you add Bombshells, you do realise what happens right? Your deck RELYS on the Swallower. He can be countered, the Saurien killed or bounced, I mean all zoo has to do is save a Char and boom, your gameplan is ruined. Bombshells with Swallower is a mediocre combo at best. Unless you have 3, odds are it won't do you any good in the end, since your opponent will control all your stuff. If you want Saurien, well now you're using a 3 card CREATURE combo, and don't tell me that you're trying to pull that off every game.
It's a nice idea, but I mean what decks currently played do not use counters or cheap spot removal? What decks can't be rid of a 4/4 on turn 4? Right now, th whole premise of the combo is flawed because the format demands that every deck has an answer to BETTER then this. You're putting all you eggs into one basket, the hope that Saurien will not be stopped by turn 5 when Swallower hits.
One Rusalka, GG. Husk, GG. Ghost Counsil, GG. Are you going to tell me that these creatures are rarely played?
I'm very curious as to how this deck has play tested. How do your matches go the second game, when they know exactly how to stop you? Are there any decks that this deck smashes in particular?
Idk, I've only been able to play a couple games against jank decks on MWS, so no real results, even though it won most of the games it played.
Anyway, I'm geussing no Bombshell then...
And Saurian usually hits 3rd turn with accelleration, and I usually don't play Swallower unless I have counter mana open. I'm going to test now and get some results.
Anyone who says a deck is bad because card X can be burned/bounced generally shouldn't be listened to. Most creatures that see play can be burned/bounced/etc. You will win some games on surprise factor, and it is no doubt this is more of a casual deck. But not because Saurian is burn bait.
Don't play Jitte, people have naturalize, fetters, vir shaman, etc.
Honestly, this simply means he needs to find ways to protect it. Counter is an idea.
If the Sword of Fire and Ice is killed by Oxidize, you traded 1 for 1. If Jitte is Faith Fettered, 1 for 1. If Tog was Smothered, 1 for 1:
If the Saurien is bounced, you traded 1 for 1, but gained all of their permanents. We'll say you stole 4 lands, a signet, and a bird. That's 6 lost for them and 6 gained for you, you traded 1 for 13 essentially. Do you see what I'm getting at? ANY kill spell is going to be about 10 for 1 card advantage at worst. When your Sword of Fire/Ice is Naturalized, you don't discard your hand and sac 3 lands, there is no game breaking consequences that cause you to be put in a horrible situation, you just lost 1 card to their 1 card. I don't see how this comparison is relevant.
There is a fine line between creatures dying to removal, and you losing to removal. This is the forums where people are trying to make competitive decks, but the problem is that this deck has poor matchups vs all the "Decks to Beat" because they all have bounce or kill, and this deck loses to one bounce/kill card.
It also loses to some of the most popular creatures of the set, who can just sac the Saurien.
Now if we're saving the Swallower for when we can play and counter spells, well then what are we doing? Relying on a 4/4 on turn 4 to fend off aggro or control?
You also have to realise that Swallower is basically useless without the Saurien, and your deck is far from fantastic without the 8/8 evasion beater, so all they have to do is control 1 card to shut you down. With no tutors and no draw, you may not see both in the same game. You can't expect to see both in your opening hand either.
it's not like this deck is trying to fight the metagame, its just for fun.
The point is the deck has a very obvious flaw, my critique on the deck is that this flaw is far too easy for anything to abuse, and so my critique is that this deck needs to find a way around it.
Add Plaxmanta or Plaxcaster Frogling, and you can bypass the deck's one major weakness. What I'm trying to prove is that any removal creates far too much disadvanatge to make this deck worth playing. Prevent instant speed removal, and maybe you have something you can work with.
fetters on jitte is not one for one. They need either 2 more jittes to remove it (i remove, 1 replay), or enchantent removal. The former is often mor likely.
Yeah, So I'd need to play Frogling, then Saurian, then Swallower with 2 mana open? So why not just play a deck with SSS? The deck basically is fun, if it can win a few games that's awesome, but if not, oh well. Does Plaxmanta work for the whole turn if I play it before Swallower? Because I won't control Saurian anymore so I didn't know if you could still target it or not?
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4x Sky Swallower
4x Brooding Saurian
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Simic Sky Swallower
Spells
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Compulsive Research
4x Rune Snag
4x Remand
4x Mana Leak
4x Farseek
4x Breeding Pool
4x Yavimaya Coast
8x Forest
6x Island
4x Spell Snare
4x Trygon Predator
3x Life from the Loam
4x Boomerang
So here's a core build using the whole Brooding Saurian + Sky Swallower Combo. It's worked alright so far. I haven't Played any games really so far. It seems alright in theory, but I might need some sort of removal, which makes me wanna splash red or black or something, but I might just need some bounce so I can swing in for the win. It seems like it would do ok against aggro, but might not be able to handle the amount of creatures it sends out.
Cool combo. if you need more removal then make your lands snow and add mmouth of ronom. great removal i say and its being used everywhere(well not everywhere but a lot of places).
bad combo? Yes. Fun? I think so
The only Problem would really be protecting Sky Swallower after the Permanents switch, but maybe I could just tap 2 mana and take the burn if they don't play anything, or what? I could get seven mana out by turn 5, turn 6 if things are going that bad.
Mouth of Ronom sounds like a good idea, but I was looking for something that could get rid of stuff faster, like some of the 3/3's that zoo pops out of it's butt in no time flat.
I thought about Plaxcaster Frogling, and I like him a lot, but idk if I'll ever see myself being able to use his ability when I really need it. But I am considering Sheilding Plax... Anymore thoughts?
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About Plaxcaster Frogling, I love him and all, but I want to be able to protect Brooding Saurian while I lose all my stuff... And I Just realized that Shielding Plax wouldn't help because I would be the opponent... But anyway, I guess I would just have to risk taking mana burn.
I like Plaxmanta, but does it's effect not help Brooding Saurian when they switch control? Because I don't control it anymore, but does the effect last because I controlled him when I played Plaxmanta? Then it would be a good add in. But I also want to be able to stop Wrath of God. That sucks a lot.
What should I take out for Bronze Bombshell?
Saurian says Non-Token. They did this obv because it would be in the same rotation as the Hunted creatures.
It's a nice idea, but I mean what decks currently played do not use counters or cheap spot removal? What decks can't be rid of a 4/4 on turn 4? Right now, th whole premise of the combo is flawed because the format demands that every deck has an answer to BETTER then this. You're putting all you eggs into one basket, the hope that Saurien will not be stopped by turn 5 when Swallower hits.
One Rusalka, GG. Husk, GG. Ghost Counsil, GG. Are you going to tell me that these creatures are rarely played?
I'm very curious as to how this deck has play tested. How do your matches go the second game, when they know exactly how to stop you? Are there any decks that this deck smashes in particular?
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Anyway, I'm geussing no Bombshell then...
And Saurian usually hits 3rd turn with accelleration, and I usually don't play Swallower unless I have counter mana open. I'm going to test now and get some results.
I was playing U/W Husk. It wasn't pretty.
Don't play Jitte, people have naturalize, fetters, vir shaman, etc.
Honestly, this simply means he needs to find ways to protect it. Counter is an idea.
If someone wants to debate against this theory/statement, bring it on.
Was 'Tog bad because it could die to Smother?
sarcasm Sword of Fire and Ice was bad! It died to Needle, Oxidize, Virdian Shaman, Detonate, and so on. It must have been bad! /sarcasm
Is Debtors' Knell a bad card because Seed Spark, KoAL/Unicorn, and Mortify could destroy it?
I feel that there needs to be a Plan B in case the combo goes foul. Since we're in G/U, we have Vinelasher Kudzu, Plaxcaster Frogling, Giant Solifuge, Simic Sky Swallower, and even the Saurian itself is a nice 4/4 beater for 4.
If the Saurien is bounced, you traded 1 for 1, but gained all of their permanents. We'll say you stole 4 lands, a signet, and a bird. That's 6 lost for them and 6 gained for you, you traded 1 for 13 essentially. Do you see what I'm getting at? ANY kill spell is going to be about 10 for 1 card advantage at worst. When your Sword of Fire/Ice is Naturalized, you don't discard your hand and sac 3 lands, there is no game breaking consequences that cause you to be put in a horrible situation, you just lost 1 card to their 1 card. I don't see how this comparison is relevant.
There is a fine line between creatures dying to removal, and you losing to removal. This is the forums where people are trying to make competitive decks, but the problem is that this deck has poor matchups vs all the "Decks to Beat" because they all have bounce or kill, and this deck loses to one bounce/kill card.
It also loses to some of the most popular creatures of the set, who can just sac the Saurien.
Now if we're saving the Swallower for when we can play and counter spells, well then what are we doing? Relying on a 4/4 on turn 4 to fend off aggro or control?
You also have to realise that Swallower is basically useless without the Saurien, and your deck is far from fantastic without the 8/8 evasion beater, so all they have to do is control 1 card to shut you down. With no tutors and no draw, you may not see both in the same game. You can't expect to see both in your opening hand either.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
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The point is the deck has a very obvious flaw, my critique on the deck is that this flaw is far too easy for anything to abuse, and so my critique is that this deck needs to find a way around it.
Add Plaxmanta or Plaxcaster Frogling, and you can bypass the deck's one major weakness. What I'm trying to prove is that any removal creates far too much disadvanatge to make this deck worth playing. Prevent instant speed removal, and maybe you have something you can work with.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yeah, So I'd need to play Frogling, then Saurian, then Swallower with 2 mana open? So why not just play a deck with SSS? The deck basically is fun, if it can win a few games that's awesome, but if not, oh well. Does Plaxmanta work for the whole turn if I play it before Swallower? Because I won't control Saurian anymore so I didn't know if you could still target it or not?