Stevie, your build has A LOT of Legends. I really don't like it much at all, it seems like it would have so many dead draws, and a lot of the cards are slow and have bad synergy with each other (Kataki and Jitte for example). I think the build with the lock creatures is a lot more consistant and can beat things better. Tolsimir might not be a bad choice though, I might throw one in since he's such a house when he comes down.
BG Control is kind of an ugly matchup, but it's also winnable. The mass removal stuff really hurts this deck though, and there isn't a ton that we can do about it outside of Promise of Bunrei or something else. I think Glare is really good in the deck though, and making it GW Beats would hurt a lot of it's otherwise good matchups. Even with just one creature out Glare is really nice, and it can win games on its own. Removing it seems like a bad idea, at least to me.
umm juice stain, i'm assuming you haven't read the comprehensive rules for a couple of years now, because the unwritten static ability of tapped artifacts being inoperative is archaic and no longer exists.(except when specifically stated on certain cards such as static orb)
umm juice stain, i'm assuming you haven't read the comprehensive rules for a couple of years now, because the unwritten static ability of tapped artifacts being inoperative is archaic and no longer exists.(except when specifically stated on certain cards such as static orb)
It would be a neat little trick, but I don't think it's one that would be very useful a lot of the time. I also don't like how it relies on Glare to be effective. I would rather be tapping my creature to tap their creatures instead of wasting one on Howling Mine.
storage matrix might be an option. that you can tap with glare since it says as long is it is untapped. That way they have to make a choice of what to untap and you won't. if they choose creatures, their lands stay tapped and you can tap their creatures with subdual. if they choose lands, their creature's stay tapped and you don't have to tap your creatures to tap them.
excuse this noob question acvar, but what deck would that be?
I wouldn't call it a noob question. The deck is Token.dec. Actually it should just be called a concept at this point since there are several builds running around and it is still unclear which is the best. Some version run Glare themselves, while others rely on Hour of Reckoning as thier big spell. How many non token cards you use depends on which "big" spell you chose. Its a midrange deck that is rediculously difficult to control since it recovers from removal so easily. Truth be told the most effective way to attack the deck is to kill its enchantments instead of its creatures, but large amounts of enchantment removal is not very strong vs you average metagame. I have tried version based on both glare and reckoning, and they both have been a reckingball. The glare version is a bit faster, but the reckoning version has more staying power. The best way to beat the deck is big fast evasive creatures. Glare or reckoning can easily counter this tactic however.
I wouldn't call it a noob question. The deck is Token.dec. Actually it should just be called a concept at this point since there are several builds running around and it is still unclear which is the best. Some version run Glare themselves, while others rely on Hour of Reckoning as thier big spell. How many non token cards you use depends on which "big" spell you chose. Its a midrange deck that is rediculously difficult to control since it recovers from removal so easily. Truth be told the most effective way to attack the deck is to kill its enchantments instead of its creatures, but large amounts of enchantment removal is not very strong vs you average metagame. I have tried version based on both glare and reckoning, and they both have been a reckingball. The glare version is a bit faster, but the reckoning version has more staying power. The best way to beat the deck is big fast evasive creatures. Glare or reckoning can easily counter this tactic however.
I've faced your "wreckingball" a few times myself, not with this deck most of the time, but with W/R Weenie, and it really wasn't much. Truthfully I ran into far more problems with this deck because its creatures are especially sizable. I faced it once with my build of this deck in a 2/3, and only one of the games it was able to pull off a Reckoning, and it still lost (Tolsimir Wolfblood saw to that). I hardly think it will break the environment with all the Wildfire/RW Control/MBC out there.
Now, on to Tolsimir, I tested him out a bit and the only time I really saw him benifit was in that random token match. I don't think he should earn a specific slot in the maindeck, maybe in the board. Now I know how much this deck doesn't like non-creature spells in its build, but I'm going to test out Moldervine Cloak, because it was an absolute HOUSE in a G/R/W Three Deuce deck that I faced earlier, and I think it could work to a similar effect here (except it won't be powering up Boros Swiftblades, making Kird Ape into a 5/6, or getting Skyknight Legionarre into that "ridiculous flying guy" range).
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Now, on to Tolsimir, I tested him out a bit and the only time I really saw him benifit was in that random token match. I don't think he should earn a specific slot in the maindeck, maybe in the board. Now I know how much this deck doesn't like non-creature spells in its build, but I'm going to test out Moldervine Cloak, because it was an absolute HOUSE in a G/R/W Three Deuce deck that I faced earlier, and I think it could work to a similar effect here (except it won't be powering up Boros Swiftblades, making Kird Ape into a 5/6, or getting Skyknight Legionarre into that "ridiculous flying guy" range).
I have tested Tolsimir and I think that he is better in a more aggro deck. Through my testing I have discovered that the control aspect of the deck is the way to go. One of the problems that earlier versions of this deck had during my testing is that it could not decide whether it wanted to be an aggro deck or control. I have gone with the more control variant, and have discovered that Tolsmir does not work too well in this type of deck.
Here is my decklist to anyone that is curious.
SB Explanations: Needle storm is for the huge flying metagame in my area.... weird huh. Promise of Bunrei is for the board sweepers and things of that nature. Naturalize and Viridian Shamans for artifacts obviously. Pithing Needle is anti, like everything.
MMMM... Me likes me likes
My comment: -1 glare... +1 ghostly? (or maybe another thing)... What bout Nature's Will? (combos with him and Hokori are kinda game, though diff to get... Paladin en-vec could help since hes almost unblockable, but thats probably too many slots). Or Privileged Position?
I would also consider some more good instants, Seedborn Muse allows u to play them so nicely (combat triks like otherwordly journey, maybe one of the G/W creature tutors...who knows)
Thanks
Glare of Subdual is the backbone of the deck. As there are no enchantment tutors in t2, 4 is really the only way I can make sure that I get it every time.
Nature's Will is a good idea, I might have to test that.
I dont like Paladin En-Vec, as I said earlier, I feel he is too aggro, and doesn't help the deck in its mission of locking down the opponent.
Combat tricks take away from the lockdown.
YAY LOCKDOWN
hokori... + nature's will means that the opponent cannot have more than 2 lands untapped (1 that he untaps every turn.. and 1 he plays) u tap his lands every time u attack him.
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Stevie, your build has A LOT of Legends. I really don't like it much at all, it seems like it would have so many dead draws, and a lot of the cards are slow and have bad synergy with each other (Kataki and Jitte for example). I think the build with the lock creatures is a lot more consistant and can beat things better. Tolsimir might not be a bad choice though, I might throw one in since he's such a house when he comes down.
BG Control is kind of an ugly matchup, but it's also winnable. The mass removal stuff really hurts this deck though, and there isn't a ton that we can do about it outside of Promise of Bunrei or something else. I think Glare is really good in the deck though, and making it GW Beats would hurt a lot of it's otherwise good matchups. Even with just one creature out Glare is really nice, and it can win games on its own. Removing it seems like a bad idea, at least to me.
See Deck X from block season. The jittes pay for themselves when you have a paddle. Hokori + Glare is great synergy, plus the beforementioned combos. Glare and Paddle provide use for your creatures. Yojimbo stalls. The wolfblood is for the pump also for the fact that it creates 2 legends.
I really dont like Kataki or Yojimbo in the deck. Personally I dont think they accomplish anything useful. Kataki and the jitte dont work at all together, and I personally think that yojimbo is just a horrible card.
I really dont like Kataki or Yojimbo in the deck. Personally I dont think they accomplish anything useful. Kataki and the jitte dont work at all together, and I personally think that yojimbo is just a horrible card.
while he may not be ideal for this deck, i woudln't go as far as to say yojimbo is a horrible card.
he is a pretty decent stall card. coming down turn 3, or turn 2 if you had a birds or elf, he will block at 2/5 and stop basically anything out there at that time. he can pay to prevent more damage if the creature happens to have power 6 or more. he can block one creature. then tap to prevent damage from another.
he can take a shock, or a helix for you.
I'd say that is a lot for 3 mana.
while he may not be ideal for this deck, i woudln't go as far as to say yojimbo is a horrible card.
he is a pretty decent stall card. coming down turn 3, or turn 2 if you had a birds or elf, he will block at 2/5 and stop basically anything out there at that time. he can pay to prevent more damage if the creature happens to have power 6 or more. he can block one creature. then tap to prevent damage from another.
he can take a shock, or a helix for you.
I'd say that is a lot for 3 mana.
Stalling can't win the game for you though, in constructed I do not think that Yojimbo is an even decent card.
Stalling can't win the game for you though, in constructed I do not think that Yojimbo is an even decent card.
did I say stalling wins the game for you? no I did not. stalling HELPS you to win the game. just like ghostly prison, pulse of the fields, hokori, orb of dreams, loxodon gatekeeper, kismet. white likes to slow down the opponent, and make things tougher for him. and yojimbo definately does that. I find it rather funny how you dismiss opal eye because "stalling cards cant win the game for you" yet your build has ghostly prison, carven caryatid, hokori, and loxodon gatekeeper:tongue2:
i never said opal eye was a super great 4 star card, but it is FAR from horrible.
If you're looking for stalling, instead of using Yojimbo, use Carven Caryatid. It's pretty much better than Yojimbo on its own, and it isn't dead in multiples.
I cannot wait for Ravnica to be released. I still need to get playtesting in, it's hard to do without resorting to beating up scrubs on MWS. :slant:
Ghostly Prison is definatley awesome. I love the synergy between seedborn muse, hokori, loxodon gatekeeper and such.
Hokori taps out their lands, gatekeeper makes it so that when they play new lands they cant use them, and seedborn muse allows me to untap everything during their upkeep. Also glare of sudual and seedborn muse is an amazing pair.
The reason why he's saying that Sickening Shoal kills Hikori is because being only able to untap one land a turn means that it is difficult to cast removal for Hikori. These things need to be considered before posting.
I don't like that idea. The decklist is tight, and, unlike every other green deck in the history of the universe, Sakura is really bad in here. Elves and Birds are almost infinitely better for the deck, and provide more than enough acceleration. Summons doesn't seem good enough to waste that many slots for, especially considering it's basically a bad Scatter the Seeds.
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BG Control is kind of an ugly matchup, but it's also winnable. The mass removal stuff really hurts this deck though, and there isn't a ton that we can do about it outside of Promise of Bunrei or something else. I think Glare is really good in the deck though, and making it GW Beats would hurt a lot of it's otherwise good matchups. Even with just one creature out Glare is really nice, and it can win games on its own. Removing it seems like a bad idea, at least to me.
Read the oracle text for Howling Mine.
It would be a neat little trick, but I don't think it's one that would be very useful a lot of the time. I also don't like how it relies on Glare to be effective. I would rather be tapping my creature to tap their creatures instead of wasting one on Howling Mine.
...
I wouldn't call it a noob question. The deck is Token.dec. Actually it should just be called a concept at this point since there are several builds running around and it is still unclear which is the best. Some version run Glare themselves, while others rely on Hour of Reckoning as thier big spell. How many non token cards you use depends on which "big" spell you chose. Its a midrange deck that is rediculously difficult to control since it recovers from removal so easily. Truth be told the most effective way to attack the deck is to kill its enchantments instead of its creatures, but large amounts of enchantment removal is not very strong vs you average metagame. I have tried version based on both glare and reckoning, and they both have been a reckingball. The glare version is a bit faster, but the reckoning version has more staying power. The best way to beat the deck is big fast evasive creatures. Glare or reckoning can easily counter this tactic however.
I've faced your "wreckingball" a few times myself, not with this deck most of the time, but with W/R Weenie, and it really wasn't much. Truthfully I ran into far more problems with this deck because its creatures are especially sizable. I faced it once with my build of this deck in a 2/3, and only one of the games it was able to pull off a Reckoning, and it still lost (Tolsimir Wolfblood saw to that). I hardly think it will break the environment with all the Wildfire/RW Control/MBC out there.
Now, on to Tolsimir, I tested him out a bit and the only time I really saw him benifit was in that random token match. I don't think he should earn a specific slot in the maindeck, maybe in the board. Now I know how much this deck doesn't like non-creature spells in its build, but I'm going to test out Moldervine Cloak, because it was an absolute HOUSE in a G/R/W Three Deuce deck that I faced earlier, and I think it could work to a similar effect here (except it won't be powering up Boros Swiftblades, making Kird Ape into a 5/6, or getting Skyknight Legionarre into that "ridiculous flying guy" range).
"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
"I love you guys, thanks for comin' to my special."
- Mitch Hedburg (1968-2005)
We love you too Mitch, we love you too.
"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
I have tested Tolsimir and I think that he is better in a more aggro deck. Through my testing I have discovered that the control aspect of the deck is the way to go. One of the problems that earlier versions of this deck had during my testing is that it could not decide whether it wanted to be an aggro deck or control. I have gone with the more control variant, and have discovered that Tolsmir does not work too well in this type of deck.
Here is my decklist to anyone that is curious.
// Lands
7 [ON] Forest
4 [RAV] Temple Garden
4 [AT] Brushland
7 [B] Plains
// Creatures
4 [B] Birds of Paradise
4 [7E] Llanowar Elves
3 [LE] Seedborn Muse
3 [RAV] Watchwolf
3 [RAV] Loxodon Gatekeeper
2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
3 [BOK] Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 [RAV] Carven Caryatid
// Spells
4 [RAV] Devouring Light
4 [RAV] Glare of Subdual
2 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
3 [CHK] Kodama’s Reach
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [9E] Needle Storm
SB: 3 [SOK] Promise of Bunrei
SB: 3 [9E] Viridian Shaman
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [9E] Naturalize
SB Explanations: Needle storm is for the huge flying metagame in my area.... weird huh. Promise of Bunrei is for the board sweepers and things of that nature. Naturalize and Viridian Shamans for artifacts obviously. Pithing Needle is anti, like everything.
Thanks
Glare of Subdual is the backbone of the deck. As there are no enchantment tutors in t2, 4 is really the only way I can make sure that I get it every time.
Nature's Will is a good idea, I might have to test that.
I dont like Paladin En-Vec, as I said earlier, I feel he is too aggro, and doesn't help the deck in its mission of locking down the opponent.
Combat tricks take away from the lockdown.
YAY LOCKDOWN
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i didnt say it was a GOOD enchantment tutor...lol
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See Deck X from block season. The jittes pay for themselves when you have a paddle. Hokori + Glare is great synergy, plus the beforementioned combos. Glare and Paddle provide use for your creatures. Yojimbo stalls. The wolfblood is for the pump also for the fact that it creates 2 legends.
while he may not be ideal for this deck, i woudln't go as far as to say yojimbo is a horrible card.
he is a pretty decent stall card. coming down turn 3, or turn 2 if you had a birds or elf, he will block at 2/5 and stop basically anything out there at that time. he can pay to prevent more damage if the creature happens to have power 6 or more. he can block one creature. then tap to prevent damage from another.
he can take a shock, or a helix for you.
I'd say that is a lot for 3 mana.
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3 Yosei, the Morning Star
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Opal-Eye, Konda’s Yojimbo
4 Seedborn Muse
3 Tolsimir Wolfblood
4 Loxodon Gatekeeper
4 Honor-Worn Shaku
4 Glare of Subdual
4 Temple Garden
4 Brushland
9 Forest
7 Plains
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Naturalize
4 Pithing Needle
3 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
That can get some pretty broken locks going, and has multiple locks, so if glare is destryed, we are not wrecked. Thought?
Stalling can't win the game for you though, in constructed I do not think that Yojimbo is an even decent card.
did I say stalling wins the game for you? no I did not. stalling HELPS you to win the game. just like ghostly prison, pulse of the fields, hokori, orb of dreams, loxodon gatekeeper, kismet. white likes to slow down the opponent, and make things tougher for him. and yojimbo definately does that. I find it rather funny how you dismiss opal eye because "stalling cards cant win the game for you" yet your build has ghostly prison, carven caryatid, hokori, and loxodon gatekeeper:tongue2:
i never said opal eye was a super great 4 star card, but it is FAR from horrible.
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I cannot wait for Ravnica to be released. I still need to get playtesting in, it's hard to do without resorting to beating up scrubs on MWS. :slant:
Hokori taps out their lands, gatekeeper makes it so that when they play new lands they cant use them, and seedborn muse allows me to untap everything during their upkeep. Also glare of sudual and seedborn muse is an amazing pair.
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