What Rakdos needs is a way to not immediately lose to its own lack of resilience "late" game. Late game is post wrath of god for this deck, or after another game swinging effect that is similar. Contrary to previous assurances, topdeck mode does suck very hard for rakdos, pretty much almost as bad as it is for Zoo or a control deck.
Cards like Giant solifuge could help this issue, giving the deck more ability to dictate the pace of the game, and allowing excellent pressure after board sweeping. However, the agro version must also run dark confidant, and it really sucks to rip a solifuge or two off of Bob, especially with zero lifegain. Splashing for white was considered, but ultimately we just found that version to randomly scrub out in a similar fashion. Bad sign. There may be a Disruption-style deck in rakdos somewhere, but that is another thread for another day.
My version is pretty good im just testing it...any help would be nice
I think if you actually tested your deck, you would find your first assertion incorrect.
Post testing results instead of not posting the list in DFC would be my immediate advice, as just posting your list filled with fairly obvious holes that could be filled from RTFT'ing isn't going to benefit progress outside of your personal benefit. And when we don't even have a true "standard" to judge from (you could take littlewood and my list as "standard", but it's clear this base is flawed), talking about your deck from a DFC standpoint is not productive for anyone.
Or just read my last post ITT.
Quote from Lanky »
What Rakdos needs is a way to not immediately lose to its own lack of resilience "late" game. Late game is post wrath of god for this deck, or after another game swinging effect that is similar. Contrary to previous assurances, topdeck mode does suck very hard for rakdos, pretty much almost as bad as it is for Zoo or a control deck.
Cards like Giant solifuge could help this issue, giving the deck more ability to dictate the pace of the game, and allowing excellent pressure after board sweeping. However, the agro version must also run dark confidant, and it really sucks to rip a solifuge or two off of Bob, especially with zero lifegain. Splashing for white was considered, but ultimately we just found that version to randomly scrub out in a similar fashion. Bad sign. There may be a Disruption-style deck in rakdos somewhere, but that is another thread for another day.
We're quite past realizing the former.
The latter has been actualized but not to a competitive degree.
I think to make progress, it'd be better to actually address the problems rather than restate them.
Has anyone thought of playing Nezumi Graverobber in their builds? I find that playing him turn 2 and removing something turn 3 then attacking for 4-5 is pretty good.
Has anyone thought of playing Nezumi Graverobber in their builds? I find that playing him turn 2 and removing something turn 3 then attacking for 4-5 is pretty good.
How is Nezumi Graverobber progressive towards the aggro-control strategy?
he can remove opponents graveyard threats such as recurring yosei or firemane angel. And is a 2 drop that is a potential turn 3 4/2 on the attack which can later be used as creature steal from graves.
he can remove opponents graveyard threats such as recurring yosei or firemane angel. And is a 2 drop that is a potential turn 3 4/2 on the attack which can later be used as creature steal from graves.
Because it's good against a total of two decks, neither of which are played often. Right
I think to make progress, it'd be better to actually address the problems rather than restate them.
I don't see anyone even posting why they took losses, and what did work.
What are the problems of the deck? Lack of speed, disruption, not enough removal, not enough beefy creatures?
We have lots of people posting on this thread that have lots to say (about other people's posts) but nothing to say about improving the deck.
So not to be hypocritial: here is my 2 cents taken from my testing. I believe that Hand of Cruelty is a must with all the white in the format. it has been winning me games.
Frenzied Goblin worked well pushing though damage.
The deck does not race well and is poor when topdecking and dies after wrath. What to do about that I am stumped, maybe more disruption?. Any thoughts out there?
I hate flipping char with Bob, bad investment but need a way to kill heirarch and other 4 butts. I am still working on this one. char is so good this has been a hang up for me....should we lean twards Rend Flesh or seal of Doom or even ditch Bob for Arena and add Hit/Run?
On another note: I don't think Graverobber is a bad idea, we could certainly could use its ablities (moldervine, Angle, heartbeat stuff recollectied back, Greater good, gifts) but I don't see what to cut to fit it in, Maybe sideboard.
I have an idea, why not go 3 colors with this deck? There are two other possible aggro colors (White and Green), which gives you access to more and more aggro creatures as well as the guild creatures that comes with it. That might solve your pyroclasm problem. The only drawback is that you can't really play Lyzola anymore.
I don't see anyone even posting why they took losses, and what did work.
What are the problems of the deck? Lack of speed, disruption, not enough removal, not enough beefy creatures?
We have lots of people posting on this thread that have lots to say (about other people's posts) but nothing to say about improving the deck.
So not to be hypocritial: here is my 2 cents taken from my testing. I believe that Hand of Cruelty is a must with all the white in the format. it has been winning me games.
Frenzied Goblin worked well pushing though damage.
The deck does not race well and is poor when topdecking and dies after wrath. What to do about that I am stumped, maybe more disruption?. Any thoughts out there?
I hate flipping char with Bob, bad investment but need a way to kill heirarch and other 4 butts. I am still working on this one. char is so good this has been a hang up for me....should we lean twards Rend Flesh or seal of Doom or even ditch Bob for Arena and add Hit/Run?
On another note: I don't think Graverobber is a bad idea, we could certainly could use its ablities (moldervine, Angle, heartbeat stuff recollectied back, Greater good, gifts) but I don't see what to cut to fit it in, Maybe sideboard.
i suggest more recursion. remove bob and add in mortivore. since all of our creatures end up dying we should drop in mortivore and also drop in
golgari thug. also add in hit // run.
the issue with the deck is there are no come into play effects. everything has to be activated. if there were more triggered effects or come into play effects with the deck then i think rakdos will do well.
and obviously red/black has NO enchantment removal so all decks that run cop:red or black or ghostly prison or searing mediatation will own this deck. however against creature match-ups like ghost dad, zoo, or gruul, this deck does very well.
Concerning comes into play abilities: I use 2 copies of Crypt Champion which works wonders as our 2-3 drop (Lyzolda + Rakdos Augermage + Rakdos Guildmage + Dark Confidant) are among the best available.
I am working on a build without Bob using Arena. I don't have it ready yet but my thoughts are....Blackmail, fall, Rav Rats, Hit, and tutor. I any going to give poppet another shot too. I am going to get some good testing done tonight at FNM so I should have some results soon.
Aside burning-tree shaman both paladin and kira are generally sideboard cards. Consequently you should have sided out the crypt champion at that time! For me it has done wonders against "Izzet Machinegun" (pre-SB) as I've finished at 4-0 against him.
blue/white fliers run kira main. paladin is run in hand-in-hand main. i can definitely see rakdos smashing weak decks like izzet machinegun, but rakdos has very little chance versuses U/W and G/U/W right now. G/U/W is very very strong currently. coiling oracle, hierarch, spellsnare, herald and all major rakdos enemies.... not to mention faith's fetters and wrath of god.
The great news is that the version of the deck that I was tinkering with for the past few days WRECKS U/W control and Hand in Hand. I'm not exagerating. But I have come to aknowledge a few things:
1) Rakdos Guildmage is AWESOME! Drop this post Wrath and they are in a hole. God forbid you have 8 mana at the time. He is just great in so many ways I can't even begin to count.
2) Gobhobbler Rats are also very good and I played them over Hand of Cruelty. The logic behind this was that aginst B/W the evasion effect was minor and is quite underwealming vs. Grull. Of course is still great against Zoo, but then agian so are the Hellbent Rats. Also, it was very easy to get Hellbent with a Guildmage/Augermage on the board, and the rats can be dumped to a greater effect with Lyzolda.
3) My inital hypothesis was that the Fork was to slow for this deck and that it should probably be left in the SB. The only really good deck that uses jitte in main at the moment is Hand in Hand and you just own them guys. They NEVER got counters on it, not once thanks to Guildmage, Lyzolda and, of course, Seal of Fire.
The not so great news is that the burn heavy version I tested did very poorly aginst Greater Good, mostly due to lack of Disruption maindeck.
Anyways, if I was adamant, which I'm not, on playing this tomorow, which I won't (Regionals here isn't untill the begining of July from what I heard) I would go with this list:
sideboard:
1 Rise//Fall
4 Last Gasp
3 Pithing Needle
3 Hand of Cruelty
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Cranial Extraction
That's about it for me. Another thing: THIS DECK ROCKS!!!
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I have an idea, why not go 3 colors with this deck? There are two other possible aggro colors (White and Green), which gives you access to more and more aggro creatures as well as the guild creatures that comes with it. That might solve your pyroclasm problem. The only drawback is that you can't really play Lyzola anymore.
Actually you want to add blue to the deck of all things. It brings in ninja of the deep hours and dimir cutpurse, and with all the burn and frenzied goblins, they actually get through consistantly. Between them and confidant you have 12 creatures that draw you more cards. Control can not leave any of them in play or they will lose. You just slow roll them and burn them out. Since the only nonred nonblack creature in the deck is ninja of the deep hours the witch is still very effective.
This is the real RB aggro that's incredibly consistant, fast, and hard to stop. I've bee tweaking it since Guildpact came out (without seal and dual) and now it is unstoppable. (You should be soiling your pants out of fear if you're playing in San Jose/Central California Regionals)
The land count is good because everything in the deck has a low CMC. Frostling really helps against aggro and it's early beats. Bile Urchin is really good; it early beats and it can do some small damage (it all adds up)
Bob+Burn=Combo... kinda Scorched Rusalka is really good against Heartbeat and gets the last points of damage Pithing Needle: cheap, disruptive, and always good Lava Spike: cheapest burn to dome, which is where it all goes anyways
Rest: no comment, just a given.
I'm glad to see this thread last minute pre-regionals content was filled without any regard to the progress made from playtesting that has been done and without any actual playtesting results with more DFC posted drivel I worked so hard to stop from ****ting all over this thread.
Bile Urchin, Lava Spike, 1x Pithing Needle, Blackmail, 2 of some of the best creatures in the entire deck, and a continued return to the absolute drek that is Gnobgobbler rats deficated all over any progress this thread had made. I wish you the best of luck at regionals, because you're going to have to rely heavily on it with these new counter-productive builds.
This is the real RB aggro that's incredibly consistant, fast, and hard to stop. I've bee tweaking it since Guildpact came out (without seal and dual) and now it is unstoppable. (You should be soiling your pants out of fear if you're playing in San Jose/Central California Regionals)
The land count is good because everything in the deck has a low CMC. Frostling really helps against aggro and it's early beats. Bile Urchin is really good; it early beats and it can do some small damage (it all adds up)
Bob+Burn=Combo... kinda Scorched Rusalka is really good against Heartbeat and gets the last points of damage Pithing Needle: cheap, disruptive, and always good Lava Spike: cheapest burn to dome, which is where it all goes anyways
Rest: no comment, just a given.
I'm not affraid, and I don't think any one playing ghazi-chord or any competetive deck is either. It's all self sacing stuff and bob, how long after you chump block do you win the game with your burn? Probably after you lost. And no sideboard, also a plus.
The rats are not good, they will never sac the paladin, and squealing devil vs. paladin still ends in paladin winning (pro red). Wreaking ball? and no pains? All of it just seems to look at where the deck has gone and takes a step back.
None of this looks efficient or very fast, which is what makes aggro good. Don't look at cards that weren't playable before and think it will work now. Spot removal kills us, our creatures are not very efficient, and no matter what you say your results are I'm willing to bet if my buddy plays his ghazi-chord deck you will lose as quickly as I did when my R/B deck was together.
Quote from Kijin »
I'm sorry, I've done all I can do.
I feel for ya, all your testing and it seems no one looked it it but a very select few who seem to have left this thread.
Aside from all of this I'm testing tuesday, the list of decks so far is:
Ghost dad
Hand 'n' Hand
Vore
Heartbeat
Gruul beats
Zoo
U/W control
Ideal
I think it is open enough that it will cover all available deck options and after regionals though is when I think we will know what performs and what has potential. I have high hopes for this deck, I hope it can take top 8 in a few areas.
I would like that too. In fact I think we will all be very suprised with the results.
I still think you should try and test aginst Husk. Flores made a good argument about it in his latest artickle.
In my last post I was a bit stingie on the details about the Hand in Hand and U/W control metchups. Here is where I elaborate on the matter.
Hand in Hand:
1) It's important who goes first.
2) Whoever menages to keep Bob on the table wins. That's why Rusalkas and Seals are so important. You have to kill Bob on sight before they menage to swarm you. You, in general, have more removal at your disposal at any one time then they do but killing Bob should always be top priority, even if you have nothing other then Char to do it with.
3) Jitte isn't a real problem (reminder: the version I tested didn't run jitte). Between Rusalka's, Guildmages and all the burn you can kill just about EVERY creature that goes with it into the red zone. Their best bet is to try to fly over with it on a Grotesque or Specter, but both of those are a minor problem. Needles to say if they get the fork online you're doomed.
4) You recover from mana screw quicker then they do.
5) The only real problem COULD be en-Vec, if he were played, but as Kijin said, I don't expect him to show up in such large numbers as is hyped.
U/W control:
Haven't played as much games as aginst Hand in Hand. From the few games I played I can say only this:
1) The counters don't look so bad. Once you drop a guildmage with enough mana they will on a large scale be meaningless.
2) Augrmage is best played post Wrath. Most of the time they had to sweep the board on turn 4 in hope of having a safer turn 5. Boy were they wrong.
3) Be careful not to attack with Augermage or Guildmage if they have a hand (card I mean). Strip them of everything before you send them to smash face.
4) Genju CAN be raced.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Only time will tell what works and what doesn't. By the end of today we will know.
Also bad cards can be good; look at Heartbeat, most of the deck is made of crappy cards, but when put together, they make up one of the best decks in Standard.
I do have sideboard; I just don't like it.
I have play tested and I just love this deck; I'm too stuborn it's bad and I honestly don't care how good it is; I just want to play it.
I'm glad to see this thread last minute pre-regionals content was filled without any regard to the progress made from playtesting that has been done and without any actual playtesting results with more DFC posted drivel I worked so hard to stop from ****ting all over this thread.
Bile Urchin, Lava Spike, 1x Pithing Needle, Blackmail, 2 of some of the best creatures in the entire deck, and a continued return to the absolute drek that is Gnobgobbler rats deficated all over any progress this thread had made. I wish you the best of luck at regionals, because you're going to have to rely heavily on it with these new counter-productive builds.
I'm sorry, I've done all I can do.
You have repeatedly come off as saying the decks you've tested are not competitive, so there is still room for a lot of testing. I find it hard to believe that Wizards would make Rakdos completely uncompetitive.
Besides, you can't just look at individual cards and bash the deck. You have to see how the deck works as a whole.
Quote from Juggles_the_Mage »
The rats are not good, they will never sac the paladin, and squealing devil vs. paladin still ends in paladin winning (pro red). Wreaking ball? and no pains? All of it just seems to look at where the deck has gone and takes a step back.
The Rats, combined with Blackmail and Rise/Fall, provide a lot of disruption in the first 2-3 turns.
They'll have to sac the Paladin if you keep the board clear with your abundant discard and removal.
Devil has Fear, and walks right by the Paladin.
Wrecking Ball can be very useful against fatties with toughness > 4.
In my testing, i've found the pains to be unnecessary. Since this deck has no life gain, every little bit you can conserve is good.
Where, exactly, has "the deck gone?" We still apparently have no competitive build, so there's obviously still room for testing. Even cards that have been "dismissed" can still work if the configuration around them conforms better to a more-focused objective.
You have repeatedly come off as saying the decks you've tested are not competitive, so there is still room for a lot of testing. I find it hard to believe that Wizards would make Rakdos completely uncompetitive.
Besides, you can't just look at individual cards and bash the deck. You have to see how the deck works as a whole.
I was under the impression that when certain cards mesh with a deck and you don't play them and instead play cards that are less cohesive with the deck, the deck became bad. What the past few list-posters ITT have done is take a solid base, then take out a bunch of good cards from it and replace them with absolute crap. What competitive deck have you seen Bile Urchin in? Lava Spike? Blackmail?
I don't care about what you believe about a color combination; my testing alongside common sense has shown that Rakdos isn't a competitive guild. Neither is Golgari. Neither is Dimir. I don't see you lambasting Wizards over your inability to play Aquaducts into Glimpse the Unthinkable, though.
Quote from Shade »
so there is still room for a lot of testing.
None of the people who posted these lists have done any. So don't fill me up with that crock.
I was under the impression that when certain cards mesh with a deck and you don't play them and instead play cards that are less cohesive with the deck, the deck became bad. What the past few list-posters ITT have done is take a solid base, then take out a bunch of good cards from it and replace them with absolute crap. What competitive deck have you seen Bile Urchin in? Lava Spike? Blackmail?
I don't care about what you believe about a color combination; my testing alongside common sense has shown that Rakdos isn't a competitive guild. Neither is Golgari. Neither is Dimir. I don't see you lambasting Wizards over your inability to play Aquaducts into Glimpse the Unthinkable, though.
None of the people who posted these lists have done any. So don't fill me up with that crock.
If you found Rakdos to be uncompetitive with all of your extensive testing, why are you still here? The rest of us are trying to find a way to make it work, but since you've already written it off, then your playtesting results are meaningless. Why would we want to settle for your build, which you deemed to be insufficient?
shade: Kijins build was very close to an optimal rakdos build. Some cards here and there can be discussed and tested on but it was quite close to as much power as you can eek out of the guild. New ideas is good yes but most of your ideas is like kijin said is taking out playable cards for crap.
I think the only way this deck is gonna have a chance to survive is by evolving towards another color, however it would have to loose cards like augermage and similar cards with an extreme manacost and we wouldnt be able to use some heavy color splashes. but It might survive like this with black for hand disruption and black for burn and some other color for some other thing and then some aggro to midgame beef to beat down with. I dont know how efficient it will turn out to be but such a deck concept is imo the only competitive way to use rakdos as it is now.
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Test your deck. Or post it in DFC.
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Cards like Giant solifuge could help this issue, giving the deck more ability to dictate the pace of the game, and allowing excellent pressure after board sweeping. However, the agro version must also run dark confidant, and it really sucks to rip a solifuge or two off of Bob, especially with zero lifegain. Splashing for white was considered, but ultimately we just found that version to randomly scrub out in a similar fashion. Bad sign. There may be a Disruption-style deck in rakdos somewhere, but that is another thread for another day.
Post testing results instead of not posting the list in DFC would be my immediate advice, as just posting your list filled with fairly obvious holes that could be filled from RTFT'ing isn't going to benefit progress outside of your personal benefit. And when we don't even have a true "standard" to judge from (you could take littlewood and my list as "standard", but it's clear this base is flawed), talking about your deck from a DFC standpoint is not productive for anyone.
Or just read my last post ITT.
We're quite past realizing the former.
The latter has been actualized but not to a competitive degree.
I think to make progress, it'd be better to actually address the problems rather than restate them.
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Because it's good against a total of two decks, neither of which are played often. Right
I don't see anyone even posting why they took losses, and what did work.
What are the problems of the deck? Lack of speed, disruption, not enough removal, not enough beefy creatures?
We have lots of people posting on this thread that have lots to say (about other people's posts) but nothing to say about improving the deck.
So not to be hypocritial: here is my 2 cents taken from my testing. I believe that Hand of Cruelty is a must with all the white in the format. it has been winning me games.
Frenzied Goblin worked well pushing though damage.
The deck does not race well and is poor when topdecking and dies after wrath. What to do about that I am stumped, maybe more disruption?. Any thoughts out there?
I hate flipping char with Bob, bad investment but need a way to kill heirarch and other 4 butts. I am still working on this one. char is so good this has been a hang up for me....should we lean twards Rend Flesh or seal of Doom or even ditch Bob for Arena and add Hit/Run?
On another note: I don't think Graverobber is a bad idea, we could certainly could use its ablities (moldervine, Angle, heartbeat stuff recollectied back, Greater good, gifts) but I don't see what to cut to fit it in, Maybe sideboard.
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i suggest more recursion. remove bob and add in mortivore. since all of our creatures end up dying we should drop in mortivore and also drop in
golgari thug. also add in hit // run.
the issue with the deck is there are no come into play effects. everything has to be activated. if there were more triggered effects or come into play effects with the deck then i think rakdos will do well.
and obviously red/black has NO enchantment removal so all decks that run cop:red or black or ghostly prison or searing mediatation will own this deck. however against creature match-ups like ghost dad, zoo, or gruul, this deck does very well.
too bad they can bring back a beastly paladin en-vec, burning-tree shaman, or worse.... kira, great glass-spinner!
anyone going there w/this rig?
I am working on a build without Bob using Arena. I don't have it ready yet but my thoughts are....Blackmail, fall, Rav Rats, Hit, and tutor. I any going to give poppet another shot too. I am going to get some good testing done tonight at FNM so I should have some results soon.
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blue/white fliers run kira main. paladin is run in hand-in-hand main. i can definitely see rakdos smashing weak decks like izzet machinegun, but rakdos has very little chance versuses U/W and G/U/W right now. G/U/W is very very strong currently. coiling oracle, hierarch, spellsnare, herald and all major rakdos enemies.... not to mention faith's fetters and wrath of god.
The great news is that the version of the deck that I was tinkering with for the past few days WRECKS U/W control and Hand in Hand. I'm not exagerating. But I have come to aknowledge a few things:
1) Rakdos Guildmage is AWESOME! Drop this post Wrath and they are in a hole. God forbid you have 8 mana at the time. He is just great in so many ways I can't even begin to count.
2) Gobhobbler Rats are also very good and I played them over Hand of Cruelty. The logic behind this was that aginst B/W the evasion effect was minor and is quite underwealming vs. Grull. Of course is still great against Zoo, but then agian so are the Hellbent Rats. Also, it was very easy to get Hellbent with a Guildmage/Augermage on the board, and the rats can be dumped to a greater effect with Lyzolda.
3) My inital hypothesis was that the Fork was to slow for this deck and that it should probably be left in the SB. The only really good deck that uses jitte in main at the moment is Hand in Hand and you just own them guys. They NEVER got counters on it, not once thanks to Guildmage, Lyzolda and, of course, Seal of Fire.
The not so great news is that the burn heavy version I tested did very poorly aginst Greater Good, mostly due to lack of Disruption maindeck.
Anyways, if I was adamant, which I'm not, on playing this tomorow, which I won't (Regionals here isn't untill the begining of July from what I heard) I would go with this list:
4 Plagued Rusalka
3 Frenzied Goblin
--------------------
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gobhobbler Rats
4 Rakdos Guildmage
--------------------
3 Rakdos Augermage
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
====================
24 creatures
4 Char
3 Rise//Fall
4 Seal of Fire
3 Flames of the Blood Hand
====================
14 other spells
5 Swamp
5 Mountain
--------------------
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulforous Springs
--------------------
2 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
====================
22 land
sideboard:
1 Rise//Fall
4 Last Gasp
3 Pithing Needle
3 Hand of Cruelty
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Cranial Extraction
That's about it for me. Another thing: THIS DECK ROCKS!!!
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Actually you want to add blue to the deck of all things. It brings in ninja of the deep hours and dimir cutpurse, and with all the burn and frenzied goblins, they actually get through consistantly. Between them and confidant you have 12 creatures that draw you more cards. Control can not leave any of them in play or they will lose. You just slow roll them and burn them out. Since the only nonred nonblack creature in the deck is ninja of the deep hours the witch is still very effective.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Swamp
4 Frostling
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bile Urchin
3 Scorched Rusalka
4 Lava Spike
4 Char
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
4 Volcanic Hammer
The land count is good because everything in the deck has a low CMC.
Frostling really helps against aggro and it's early beats.
Bile Urchin is really good; it early beats and it can do some small damage (it all adds up)
Bob+Burn=Combo... kinda
Scorched Rusalka is really good against Heartbeat and gets the last points of damage
Pithing Needle: cheap, disruptive, and always good
Lava Spike: cheapest burn to dome, which is where it all goes anyways
Rest: no comment, just a given.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
Bile Urchin, Lava Spike, 1x Pithing Needle, Blackmail, 2 of some of the best creatures in the entire deck, and a continued return to the absolute drek that is Gnobgobbler rats deficated all over any progress this thread had made. I wish you the best of luck at regionals, because you're going to have to rely heavily on it with these new counter-productive builds.
I'm sorry, I've done all I can do.
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I'm not affraid, and I don't think any one playing ghazi-chord or any competetive deck is either. It's all self sacing stuff and bob, how long after you chump block do you win the game with your burn? Probably after you lost. And no sideboard, also a plus.
The rats are not good, they will never sac the paladin, and squealing devil vs. paladin still ends in paladin winning (pro red). Wreaking ball? and no pains? All of it just seems to look at where the deck has gone and takes a step back.
None of this looks efficient or very fast, which is what makes aggro good. Don't look at cards that weren't playable before and think it will work now. Spot removal kills us, our creatures are not very efficient, and no matter what you say your results are I'm willing to bet if my buddy plays his ghazi-chord deck you will lose as quickly as I did when my R/B deck was together.
I feel for ya, all your testing and it seems no one looked it it but a very select few who seem to have left this thread.
Aside from all of this I'm testing tuesday, the list of decks so far is:
Ghost dad
Hand 'n' Hand
Vore
Heartbeat
Gruul beats
Zoo
U/W control
Ideal
I think it is open enough that it will cover all available deck options and after regionals though is when I think we will know what performs and what has potential. I have high hopes for this deck, I hope it can take top 8 in a few areas.
I would like that too. In fact I think we will all be very suprised with the results.
I still think you should try and test aginst Husk. Flores made a good argument about it in his latest artickle.
In my last post I was a bit stingie on the details about the Hand in Hand and U/W control metchups. Here is where I elaborate on the matter.
Hand in Hand:
1) It's important who goes first.
2) Whoever menages to keep Bob on the table wins. That's why Rusalkas and Seals are so important. You have to kill Bob on sight before they menage to swarm you. You, in general, have more removal at your disposal at any one time then they do but killing Bob should always be top priority, even if you have nothing other then Char to do it with.
3) Jitte isn't a real problem (reminder: the version I tested didn't run jitte). Between Rusalka's, Guildmages and all the burn you can kill just about EVERY creature that goes with it into the red zone. Their best bet is to try to fly over with it on a Grotesque or Specter, but both of those are a minor problem. Needles to say if they get the fork online you're doomed.
4) You recover from mana screw quicker then they do.
5) The only real problem COULD be en-Vec, if he were played, but as Kijin said, I don't expect him to show up in such large numbers as is hyped.
U/W control:
Haven't played as much games as aginst Hand in Hand. From the few games I played I can say only this:
1) The counters don't look so bad. Once you drop a guildmage with enough mana they will on a large scale be meaningless.
2) Augrmage is best played post Wrath. Most of the time they had to sweep the board on turn 4 in hope of having a safer turn 5. Boy were they wrong.
3) Be careful not to attack with Augermage or Guildmage if they have a hand (card I mean). Strip them of everything before you send them to smash face.
4) Genju CAN be raced.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Also bad cards can be good; look at Heartbeat, most of the deck is made of crappy cards, but when put together, they make up one of the best decks in Standard.
I do have sideboard; I just don't like it.
I have play tested and I just love this deck; I'm too stuborn it's bad and I honestly don't care how good it is; I just want to play it.
Thank you Feste
Some trailers/clips to really good movies (especially the 1st one): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI1NKLmfP3w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kv_qD5RHt_Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3rXK7NhWN8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhUzN4oHHkU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=upo6MwPDOmQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eNNdJTt1xEA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rRn8kM4-ds
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NPJu0h0z5S4
You have repeatedly come off as saying the decks you've tested are not competitive, so there is still room for a lot of testing. I find it hard to believe that Wizards would make Rakdos completely uncompetitive.
Besides, you can't just look at individual cards and bash the deck. You have to see how the deck works as a whole.
The Rats, combined with Blackmail and Rise/Fall, provide a lot of disruption in the first 2-3 turns.
They'll have to sac the Paladin if you keep the board clear with your abundant discard and removal.
Devil has Fear, and walks right by the Paladin.
Wrecking Ball can be very useful against fatties with toughness > 4.
In my testing, i've found the pains to be unnecessary. Since this deck has no life gain, every little bit you can conserve is good.
Where, exactly, has "the deck gone?" We still apparently have no competitive build, so there's obviously still room for testing. Even cards that have been "dismissed" can still work if the configuration around them conforms better to a more-focused objective.
I don't care about what you believe about a color combination; my testing alongside common sense has shown that Rakdos isn't a competitive guild. Neither is Golgari. Neither is Dimir. I don't see you lambasting Wizards over your inability to play Aquaducts into Glimpse the Unthinkable, though.
None of the people who posted these lists have done any. So don't fill me up with that crock.
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If you found Rakdos to be uncompetitive with all of your extensive testing, why are you still here? The rest of us are trying to find a way to make it work, but since you've already written it off, then your playtesting results are meaningless. Why would we want to settle for your build, which you deemed to be insufficient?
And shouldn't you be at Regionals right now?
I think the only way this deck is gonna have a chance to survive is by evolving towards another color, however it would have to loose cards like augermage and similar cards with an extreme manacost and we wouldnt be able to use some heavy color splashes. but It might survive like this with black for hand disruption and black for burn and some other color for some other thing and then some aggro to midgame beef to beat down with. I dont know how efficient it will turn out to be but such a deck concept is imo the only competitive way to use rakdos as it is now.
But if you really want a deck that is able to use BR and be highly competitive you can go to: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=40229 It at least has playtesting and good matchups.
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