I saw a list floating around about a counter burnish deck that does lethal damage to the opponent BY GIVING THEM CARDS! i know it sounds crazy bu the deck has gone 6-1 for me in the current t2 facing LD, white weenie, ghazi glare, emminent domain and the one deck it lost to was burn... anyways heres the list
Im not sure i pasted the list right, if not please let me know cause this is the first time i using deck tags and such.
Anyways the basic idea of the deck to cast kaim of crescent moon or howling mine and try to drop ebony owl netsuke. After that its just bounce and stall with cards like exhuastion, evacuation. Cerebral vortex and sudden impact will do quite a few points of damage and then u have staright burn like char and electrolyze. strange enough this deck works well. eg turn one steam vents, turn 2 island, boomerang their land. so give it a try and feel free to post criticism, just dont call me a n00b, i dont appreciate that,
For the love of god... Could you please fix that list? It's impossible to read.... However, I have seen this deck and I can definitely comment on it.
First off, I've dubbed this thing the "Cerebral Owl", as I thought it was a cool name... And second, as much as people might think this deck is jank, it is actually better than you might think...
The deck revolves around disrupting the opponent's tempo while critically abusing their card draw. Ebony-Owl Netsuke, Cerebral Vortex and Sudden Impact are all key here... As they can deal a LOT of damage to the opponent.
The Vortex is better than you think, as it counts ALL the cards drawn this turn... not just the ones you drew at that moment. Meaning, if you've got a Howling Mine in play, Cerebral Vortex will do a total of 4 damage to the opponent (1 for the Mine, 1 for their normal draw, and 2 for their Vortex draw).
The damage definitely adds up quickly...
It's hard to see what his list is, so I'm going to provide my list that I've started playtesting:
Don't dismiss this deck right off the bat... It's a suprisingly good deck. This is my own list that I created based off of some very limited playtesting against the one build I played (didn't get the list). So I guess this physical list is my creation, but the idea I copied from whoever had the strange thought to make this...
More seriously... I'd think about adding Pyroclasm, Wildfire, and possably even Thoughts of Ruin. Weenies are gonna just slaughter this deck, since they can drop 3-4 cards a turn, so Pyroclasm seems a must... Thoughts of Ruin strands all their cards in their hand, and Wildfire pulls double duty!
EDIT: Actually... unless this deck goes off far quicker than I think it will, you're just screwed if you face a weenie deck. :/ Maybe thoughts and wildfire would slow them down enough for a win... maybe not...
The odd thing about this deck is that it plays a control role VERY well. Keep in mind, you're drawing about as many cards as the opponent is... leaving you with lots of Electrolyzes, Chars and Remands + Leaks (as well as boomerangs). You just build up steam until you finish them off via Netsuke or by Sudden Impact... it's a pretty crazy deck and I've been having a lot of fun with it so far.
I don't think Wildfire or Thoughts is a good plan... the slots in the deck are pretty tight... Besides, it's been working pretty well for me thus far. My aggro matchup isn't SO great... but I did manage to win so far... The main thing when playing this deck is to try and think long term and not short term... Playing a Howling Mine early is a very strong move, as you'll draw into more lands/counters/burn to help stave the opponent off while you dig for your win conditions.
First off, I've dubbed this thing the "Cerebral Owl", as I thought it was a cool name... And second, as much as people might think this deck is jank, it is actually better than you might think...
I was going to include this deck in my last MODO article, however, due to a misunderstanding with the person who ran it in the Standard 2x event (he thought me saying that "I will give you credit in the article for the deck" meant I would pay him for the list), I decided not to include it except for a brief description (again, if that person decides to read this, I apologize for the confusion).
Here's the tournament:
1/26/06 - 681561 - Standard 2x (44 players).
I include that information to anyone who wants to look at the deck in action.
The Vortex is better than you think, as it counts ALL the cards drawn this turn... not just the ones you drew at that moment. Meaning, if you've got a Howling Mine in play, Cerebral Vortex will do a total of 4 damage to the opponent (1 for the Mine, 1 for their normal draw, and 2 for their Vortex draw).
For one more mana, I can add 4 more Gaze of Adamaro/Sudden Impact instead and do the damage for the cards I have already drawn (the deck definitely keeps a player at 7 cards - that's 8-9 damage for 4 mana counting the draws that you mentioned). Personally, this is how I would think you should go, considering the deck has already built in card draw. That's the one thing I noticed about these lists is that they don't take advantage of the Gaze/Sudden Impact enough.
The guy that I talked to who t8ed with it also indicated he liked Thoughts of Ruin - however, I am not a fan of Wildfire in this situation - it seems very easy to recover from when your opponent is drawing 2 cards+ per turn (land, llanowar - land, land, signet, etc.)
Pyroclasm is an autoinclude in the sideboard - the guy who ran it indicated his worst matchups (he actually used the word "unwinnable") were RW Aggro and RGW Zoo. I am sure the similar aggro decks (for example - BWU Aggro) are the same situation - and these are all prone to pyroclasm.
this deck seems fun to play. Thoughts of Ruin sounds like a nice card to include but I don't really know if it would be worth it because you will have a lot of cards too and nucking your lands will negate you being able to use the cards you have drawn. I very much like Crazed Mikes build because it seems strong. I need to test this deck out!
For one more mana, I can add 4 more Gaze of Adamaro/Sudden Impact instead and do the damage for the cards I have already drawn (the deck definitely keeps a player at 7 cards - that's 8-9 damage for 4 mana counting the draws that you mentioned). Personally, this is how I would think you should go, considering the deck has already built in card draw. That's the one thing I noticed about these lists is that they don't take advantage of the Gaze/Sudden Impact enough.
The thing is, against aggro decks and even control decks, sometimes Gaze/Impact is not enough. If you don't have a Kami or a Mine in play, getting them to 7 cards is actually quite difficult. Vortex is instant speed, and it whacks the opponent, can get YOU cards if you need them, and fills up their hand. I've used this a lot, and it's definitely staying in the list for now.
The main problem this deck has is against aggro, but post-SB the matchup gets a lot better. I would write more, but I just realized that I have to work... so I shall reply later.
I saw a build that used the life gain Netsuke (Ivory Crane Netsuke) to help combat aggro. However, it seems like maybe a weaker answer, although if it gets running for a few turns it can be hard to come back from.
well, my list actually does well against aggro due to cards like boomerang and evacuation, especialy since its an instant. after sb in the pyroclasms and pithing needles , the match become a downhill battle. all you need to resolve is a kami, or a mine and an evac. . Exhaustion is also deadly due to the massive tempo loss it adds. electrolyze is ther for removal and just cast thta adamaro or sudden impact or cerebral vortex. Against control you should just win due to the boomerang and burn. they cant counter everything...
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who is the one that is supposed to watch the one that is supposed to watch the other one?
-a great mind
ahh, i've played against this deck very recently wihile testing :). at first i thought it was just some rogue deck that was surprisingly good and had a clever way to win, but then i started to play against it more and more. i really think this should have x4 kamis of the crescent moon rather than just 3, but that's just me. i do belive this deck has amazing potential, but just like what crazed mike said before me, it may be kind of slow at times and fall over to aggro. i really think exhaustion should be a 4-of, because the guy i played against had 4 and that really screwed me over. with all the drawing going on, he found them pretty quickly, and played 4 of them consecutively :slant:. i'm also questioning adamaro's existence in this deck; is it really worth it? i really don't think they're necessary, but i guess it's a good alternate plan from ebony owl.
Neat idea of a deck, I still think its a little bit of a pile with alot of synergy though. I have 3 suggestions:
Run 4 Howling Mine, its not legendary, and is essential the same as Kami
I'm iffy on this one, but what about repeal? its a cantrip that really helps with control
I think Niv Mizzet helps here, its better than adamaro however is alittle out of the curve however it works with or without the mine
I think Hinder is needed too, you need a hard counter that gets rid of a spell, maybe even rewind
Games RARELY get late enough to the point where a Mana Leak is dead for me, and even when they do, the games are pretty much over about that point.
Anyhoot, I took Mike's list and played against ED earlier, and suffice to say, ED's buttocks is going to be sore for a while.
If that's true then I'm going to have to check into this deck. That's the one deck that is played heavily by me and I get kicked around by it every week.
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“Should I be worried? He does seem dangerously cool, like a young Lando Calrissian, with a dream.”
If that's true then I'm going to have to check into this deck. That's the one deck that is played heavily by me and I get kicked around by it every week.
Indeed. ED simply can't play this sort of game. You slap a Netsuke on the table along with a Mine/Kami, and there's not a whole lot they can do. Surprise Cerebral Vortex or Sudden Impact are game enders as soon as turn 6 or 7.
Even if they manage to wildfire, if I have a Mine/Netsuke on the table, it's usually over by that point. Having more counters than they also makes the macthup strong.
I find this deck rather interesting... one thing, though. Is Remand usefull to you guys? I mean, unless you're just hitting something at random to stall... they just get the card back. Anything I'd want to counter in this deck (something targeting the mine/netsuke, for example) just gets used again the next turn... in fact, the only thing I see this as vaguely usefull for is to force a netsuke or mine through a counter, and that still leaves them a counter for your adamaru, sudden impact, or whatever...
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Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
I built the list mike played against as an example that the deck was decent and fun to play. He didnt believe that the idea was good until i tested it against him on MWS.
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Thx to Grey and The Aether Banner Shop for the banner
I find this deck rather interesting... one thing, though. Is Remand usefull to you guys? I mean, unless you're just hitting something at random to stall... they just get the card back. Anything I'd want to counter in this deck (something targeting the mine/netsuke, for example) just gets used again the next turn... in fact, the only thing I see this as vaguely usefull for is to force a netsuke or mine through a counter, and that still leaves them a counter for your adamaru, sudden impact, or whatever...
Yeah, Remand is simply a staller.
But that's okay.
In this deck, stalling another turn while they get smacked with Netsuke and the like, is a perfectly viable strategy a lot of the time.
Wow...It's stuff like this that makes magic the greatest game out there.(gogo Jank Rouge deck of DOOM! )
I saw this asked earlier but it never was answered, what about the life Crane?
It looks like it could smooth out the agro match-ups. And I would think that Niv-Mizzit would love this deck more than every damn one of his inovations!
With him your dealing like 4-5 damage a turn PLUS combat!
I love this and can't wait to playtest! ^-^
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Sets in Progress:
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
char is not needed this is not a burn deck.
What do you guys think of Wildfire or Thoughts of Ruinas a Sb stratagey?
What about Jushi Aprentice it lets you find a win condition or flips and fills there hand?
I have tested a varient of this deck and I will say its good vs most forms of control but pretty much loses to aggro like wwR I would estimate the matchup at below 30% even with pyroclasm sb.
This seems like a really cool deck. Has anyone considered blood clock? You yourself can just bounce a land or something, but it keeps the opponents hand semi-full and can disrupt them. Just a thought.
Well, I took out Remand for Thoughts of Ruin, since it's a better staller, and even though it's more expensive, by the time you've got that combo running, well... it won't be on turn 2 is all. :tongue3: I put in the Ivory Crane Netsuke too, for those aggro or weenie matches. It's fairly useless against control, but since it really helps with the 2/3 of decks that are a serious problem for this deck, I'd mainboard it. Besides, if a control deck locks you down, well... 4 life a turn over 10 turns means their win condition has it's work cut out for them. :tongue3:
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7 mountains
3 shivan reef
4 steam vents
3 adamaro
3 kami of the crescent moon
4 char
4 howling mine
3 sudden impact
4 ebony owl netsuke
3 evacuation
4 boomerang
4 cerebral vortex
3 electrolyze
3 exhaustion
4 pyroclasm
4 mana leak
3 pithing needle
4 smash
Im not sure i pasted the list right, if not please let me know cause this is the first time i using deck tags and such.
Anyways the basic idea of the deck to cast kaim of crescent moon or howling mine and try to drop ebony owl netsuke. After that its just bounce and stall with cards like exhuastion, evacuation. Cerebral vortex and sudden impact will do quite a few points of damage and then u have staright burn like char and electrolyze. strange enough this deck works well. eg turn one steam vents, turn 2 island, boomerang their land. so give it a try and feel free to post criticism, just dont call me a n00b, i dont appreciate that,
-a great mind
Awesome banner by R & Doom
First off, I've dubbed this thing the "Cerebral Owl", as I thought it was a cool name... And second, as much as people might think this deck is jank, it is actually better than you might think...
The deck revolves around disrupting the opponent's tempo while critically abusing their card draw. Ebony-Owl Netsuke, Cerebral Vortex and Sudden Impact are all key here... As they can deal a LOT of damage to the opponent.
The Vortex is better than you think, as it counts ALL the cards drawn this turn... not just the ones you drew at that moment. Meaning, if you've got a Howling Mine in play, Cerebral Vortex will do a total of 4 damage to the opponent (1 for the Mine, 1 for their normal draw, and 2 for their Vortex draw).
The damage definitely adds up quickly...
It's hard to see what his list is, so I'm going to provide my list that I've started playtesting:
3x Kami of the Crescent Moon
2x Adamaro, First to Desire
Spells:
4x Mana Leak
4x Remand
4x Boomerang
4x Electrolyze
3x Ebony Owl Netsuke
3x Howling Mine
2x Exhaustion
4x Cerebral Vortex
3x Char
2x Sudden Impact
4x Steam Vents
4x Shivan Reef
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
6x Island
3x Mountain
Don't dismiss this deck right off the bat... It's a suprisingly good deck. This is my own list that I created based off of some very limited playtesting against the one build I played (didn't get the list). So I guess this physical list is my creation, but the idea I copied from whoever had the strange thought to make this...
More seriously... I'd think about adding Pyroclasm, Wildfire, and possably even Thoughts of Ruin. Weenies are gonna just slaughter this deck, since they can drop 3-4 cards a turn, so Pyroclasm seems a must... Thoughts of Ruin strands all their cards in their hand, and Wildfire pulls double duty!
EDIT: Actually... unless this deck goes off far quicker than I think it will, you're just screwed if you face a weenie deck. :/ Maybe thoughts and wildfire would slow them down enough for a win... maybe not...
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
I don't think Wildfire or Thoughts is a good plan... the slots in the deck are pretty tight... Besides, it's been working pretty well for me thus far. My aggro matchup isn't SO great... but I did manage to win so far... The main thing when playing this deck is to try and think long term and not short term... Playing a Howling Mine early is a very strong move, as you'll draw into more lands/counters/burn to help stave the opponent off while you dig for your win conditions.
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
I was going to include this deck in my last MODO article, however, due to a misunderstanding with the person who ran it in the Standard 2x event (he thought me saying that "I will give you credit in the article for the deck" meant I would pay him for the list), I decided not to include it except for a brief description (again, if that person decides to read this, I apologize for the confusion).
Here's the tournament:
1/26/06 - 681561 - Standard 2x (44 players).
I include that information to anyone who wants to look at the deck in action.
For one more mana, I can add 4 more Gaze of Adamaro/Sudden Impact instead and do the damage for the cards I have already drawn (the deck definitely keeps a player at 7 cards - that's 8-9 damage for 4 mana counting the draws that you mentioned). Personally, this is how I would think you should go, considering the deck has already built in card draw. That's the one thing I noticed about these lists is that they don't take advantage of the Gaze/Sudden Impact enough.
The guy that I talked to who t8ed with it also indicated he liked Thoughts of Ruin - however, I am not a fan of Wildfire in this situation - it seems very easy to recover from when your opponent is drawing 2 cards+ per turn (land, llanowar - land, land, signet, etc.)
Pyroclasm is an autoinclude in the sideboard - the guy who ran it indicated his worst matchups (he actually used the word "unwinnable") were RW Aggro and RGW Zoo. I am sure the similar aggro decks (for example - BWU Aggro) are the same situation - and these are all prone to pyroclasm.
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-Devin-
Thanks to KrackkShott at Kracked Graphics for my special banner!
Come Join the War!!!
but Why not run a few Icys? They lock down potential threats as well as slow down their mana base, keeping more cards in their hand.
3x Adamaro, First to Desire
3x Kami of the Crescent Moon
Spells:
4x Mana Leak
4x Remand
4x Char
4x Cerebral Vortex
4x Ebony Owl Netsuke
4x Boomerang
3x Exhaustion
3x Howling Mine
2x Sudden Impact
4x Steam Vents
4x Shivan Reef
2x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
6x Island
3x Mountain
4x Threads of Disloyalty
4x Pyroclasm
4x Hinder
1x Exhaustion
1x Sudden Impact
1x Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Alrighty... here's goes a reply...
The thing is, against aggro decks and even control decks, sometimes Gaze/Impact is not enough. If you don't have a Kami or a Mine in play, getting them to 7 cards is actually quite difficult. Vortex is instant speed, and it whacks the opponent, can get YOU cards if you need them, and fills up their hand. I've used this a lot, and it's definitely staying in the list for now.
The main problem this deck has is against aggro, but post-SB the matchup gets a lot better. I would write more, but I just realized that I have to work... so I shall reply later.
-a great mind
Awesome banner by R & Doom
Run 4 Howling Mine, its not legendary, and is essential the same as Kami
I'm iffy on this one, but what about repeal? its a cantrip that really helps with control
I think Niv Mizzet helps here, its better than adamaro however is alittle out of the curve however it works with or without the mine
I think Hinder is needed too, you need a hard counter that gets rid of a spell, maybe even rewind
WUWUWUControl
WUGWUGCounterpost
Casual
Goblins
Seedborn Muse
Spiritcraft
I disagree.
Games RARELY get late enough to the point where a Mana Leak is dead for me, and even when they do, the games are pretty much over about that point.
Anyhoot, I took Mike's list and played against ED earlier, and suffice to say, ED's buttocks is going to be sore for a while.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
If that's true then I'm going to have to check into this deck. That's the one deck that is played heavily by me and I get kicked around by it every week.
Indeed. ED simply can't play this sort of game. You slap a Netsuke on the table along with a Mine/Kami, and there's not a whole lot they can do. Surprise Cerebral Vortex or Sudden Impact are game enders as soon as turn 6 or 7.
Even if they manage to wildfire, if I have a Mine/Netsuke on the table, it's usually over by that point. Having more counters than they also makes the macthup strong.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Thx to Grey and The Aether Banner Shop for the banner
My Trade Thread
Current Decks
R/G/W Zoo
Yeah, Remand is simply a staller.
But that's okay.
In this deck, stalling another turn while they get smacked with Netsuke and the like, is a perfectly viable strategy a lot of the time.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
I saw this asked earlier but it never was answered, what about the life Crane?
It looks like it could smooth out the agro match-ups. And I would think that Niv-Mizzit would love this deck more than every damn one of his inovations!
With him your dealing like 4-5 damage a turn PLUS combat!
I love this and can't wait to playtest! ^-^
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
What do you guys think of Wildfire or Thoughts of Ruinas a Sb stratagey?
What about Jushi Aprentice it lets you find a win condition or flips and fills there hand?
I have tested a varient of this deck and I will say its good vs most forms of control but pretty much loses to aggro like wwR I would estimate the matchup at below 30% even with pyroclasm sb.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.