boros garisson should be a 3 of in any RW control deck as it produces card advantage, is great with razia's purification and wildfire, helps out against hokori and with and against weathered wayfarer
Firemane nets you life, when the 2 biggest decks (IMO) are Rock and WWr. And as stated Dragon is 12 mana total, and is vunerable to countermagic. The landcycle was a mjor reason it was run. But I was not comparing the 2. I was saying that recursion is way to strong of an ability to leave it out of the picture.
Firemane's First Strike is also very relevant when playing against WWr and some other decks. We can normally keep Jitte counters off thanks to our removal, but when we run out, Angel runs in to keep the counters at 0.
I really don't like Yosei in this deck. Because what do we do when he dies the Time Walk we get, we play a land and say go. Yosie, IMO, would be suited better for a more aggro cotnrol version. They would be able to drop even more threats on their bonus turn. But I guess it's personal opinion with him.
Considering how much of that deck is double :symw:, it seems like not running any Plains is a big mistake. Most of the really key cards are :symw:, and even :symw::symw: at that.
Also, Recollect probably isn't worth playing, and with 8 shuffle effects, you might as well run Top.
I don't really feel that you have enough guys to make Glare effective. I wonder why they changed Opposition to a two color spell and made it worse anyway.
Bel: I don't think that you can really use as a finisher without running STE and Reach/Farkseek anyway. Green's 'finishing' capabilities are basically: KotNT, and he likes to eat those Forests.
And never had cheap creatures, it just borrowed them from :symg:(gogo Squirrel's Nest).
They changed glare as green and white have cheap critters to abuse it with , while blue doesn't .
If glare tapped lands it would be insanely strong in cureent t2
I agree not playing plains is a mistake. and i said to use green for a finisher....
im interested, what better finishers does green provide?
If glare tapped lands it would be insanely strong in cureent t2
Yup I agree opposition would be fairly strong in this metagame....
I dont think a green splash is warranted. It becomes an entirely different deck. Cyan is pretty much right, if you are running green at the moment you need sakura and the mana acceleration that is otherwise made available. If you were to do that you would have a wildfire deck with a horribly inconsistent mana base. The green splash also wouldnt aid our fight against BG either. The only huge green guy I would want would bem kodama and hes not exactly splash friendly with triple green specific.
all the guys you listed besides kodama are fairly easily dealt with, and even then wrath creases your shorts.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
In other words, they just provide very efficiently costed, hard to kill/evasive creatures.
- Natsume
eh, hunted troll is ok, but the rest don't really impress me. other than kadoma, who cost triple green, the others are all as easy or easier to kill as what we already play.
edit: IbTG beat me to it, but he's right. green offers nothing to this deck and makes your mana base very weak. i'll stick to r/w myself...
I think more often than not I have beat people with the faeries they give me off the troll. I would much rather have 4 1/1 flying tokens in play after I devouring light then not have any at all.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
Except for KotNT, which isn't really playable in this deck for obvious reasons, those guys are pretty awful. Hunted Troll's inability to trample practically guarantees that he'll never hit your opponent/ not w/o ALOT of work. That, and, the deck already has access to Hunted Dragon..and the tokens that it provides are much easier to handle than flying guys.
i like the md and the sb helps deal with this decks problems with discard and extraction. the phoenix helps against aggro and is another recurring threat if need be.
I think we shoud use this deck as the skeleton of RW Control, so what improvemtns can be added here to improve our game against BG (aka the rock)?
If we are lokoing for Untargetablility, why don't we just use Privileged Position?
i was thinking about priveleged position today too.
as long as we have the 3 white mana it could help out the situation.
granted you need 2 in play to make itself untargetable...but at the very least it forces your opponent to require a naturalize AND a removal spell in hand before he can kill a creature.
obviously only sideboard...i havnt even started working on the sideboard yet though, so i dont know if there are better options already to fill it up.
Quote from blah23 »
Should shinning shoal be in this list?
in the wildfire/hunted dragon versions, i would say no, only in the SB. in the purification/yosei versions, i would say yes.
and i like the possibility of myojin. i was happy when i put konda into the deck, as i have been waiting for a use for him since he came out. but then i remembered last gasp...and kag
on paper, this deck looks better than the wildfire version. the shoal combined with the burn can send a lot of damage to the dome. it also lets you run the kite, which thins the deck, something this deck really needs.
If you're going to run Kite, you should make room for Top as well.
no room for, don't want to take out useful spells to add it. the thinning the kite provides combined with making sure you don't miss a land drop if need be is good enough. besides, there is rarely a time im looking for a specific spell, alot of the deck is redundent.
I dont think you run the top/kite engine. It is incredibly slow, ties up alot of mana and is very easily disrupted a la pithing needle/naturalize/terashi's grasp.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
not to mention that it's overall weaker than just using Gift of Estates - Scroll of Origins. Since they are stronger stand-alone cards, and provide you card advantage much faster than kite-top.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
i tested the top and kite engine and didnt like it. for one, it was taking up too many slots in the deck. two, you really really dont want to draw multiples. 3 it was too mana intensive, to the point where many games it sat there after being cast, doing nothing. i dont mind it in G/W where you have bops, elves,tribe elders, and reaches before hand so often you have extra mana floating around that you can pump into it. but in here no.
Actually I think almost every one runs Wildfire. In my testing I love Wildfire, and I run the Searing Meditation version.
I also run Top and I love it. It helps fix my draws. I have never tried without it. I was originally using the Kite/Top Engine, but switched to Top/Gifts. Maybe I will take them out and test without them, maybe go to 4 fires, 4 gifts and 2 of something else.
Razia is crap
Wildfire is crap
Spectral Searchlight is crap
Char isn't complete crap, and i may still run it, but its not great
hunted dragon is crap
Shining Shoal is crap
I played a LOT of B/G matches last night, and the deck sucks. At least the way *I* made it. Now I'm going back on a lot of the stuff I've said, but hey, lol, i was ignorant okay?
I'm still not a fan of firemane angel, but the thing is, she keeps coming back... and thats what i need. So I'm going to run her... Wildfire I found was much too slow, and had too little effect on the matchup that matters most: B/G. B/G is going to be huge, and we need to be prepared for it.
So... with hunted dragon being really suboptimal for me, i'm going to have to find some replacements. Yosei was more successful for me than I anticipated however, so i think I'm going to run him LOTS... Myojin of Cleansing Fire has crossed my mind too... but I'm unsure... But the fact is, I need win conditions, so I'll fit a single one in.
So, lol, some of you have officially proven that you actually test your decks lol... there goes my awesome arguments in the name of theory :p:p:p lol
anyways, so with my new burst of wisdom, here's what my deck is going to look like:
I haven't put MUCH thought into the sideboard... but that's basically the deck.
To be honest, it looks more like MWC with a red splash than an actual R/W deck, lol, but im hoping it performs better... my BIGGEST problem against B/G was those stupid grave-shell scarabs. I could deal with everything else, but the scarabs were the things that always killed me really irritating...
i opted for final judgment since removing stuff from the game is particularly good against both kokusho and the scarab, two of my biggest worries... another cool inclusion is Faith's Fetters... i originally didn't notice that it could hit a permanent, which is a really big deal sometimes. often enough, ive almost wanted to shut down MIREN because it was being a pain in the butt... the fetters are good against both aggro and control, as against aggro you lock a creature and gain some life, and against control the card you lock will likely be more important than some random weenie... it also does well against jittes if they come to be seen everywhere.
and i haven't tried to fit it in my deck, but ive found some new secret tech in the form of a win condition which some people may have forgotten about: Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
this card is nice because the artifact itself CAN dodge putrefies and naturalizes (good thing, even if expensive), can boost a creature if need be (if you have 9 mana, why not?) and a recursive win condition is probably the best thing about it... as it keeps coming back and will eventually wear out B/Gs arsenal of kill... the biggest problem is of course pithing needle, so it would really have to be tested to see if its effective or not... but its an option for those who are looking for something a bit "different"... 12 mana is the biggest problem, since youd want 12 in order to play then use the ability... but its pretty solid.
so, comments on the deck? im going to be doing some more testing tomorrow with it, so i should be able to get back with some (hopefully more promising) results.... until then, discuss!
Playtesting showed that Blinkmoth Infusion was broken at 11UU .
ka....me.....ha....me....HAAAA!!!
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:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
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The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
Firemane's First Strike is also very relevant when playing against WWr and some other decks. We can normally keep Jitte counters off thanks to our removal, but when we run out, Angel runs in to keep the counters at 0.
I really don't like Yosei in this deck. Because what do we do when he dies the Time Walk we get, we play a land and say go. Yosie, IMO, would be suited better for a more aggro cotnrol version. They would be able to drop even more threats on their bonus turn. But I guess it's personal opinion with him.
creatures 14
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Yosei, the Morning star
3 Loxodon Gatekeper
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Hunted Dragon
4 Farseek
4 Recollect
4 Pyroclasm
4 Wrath of God
4 Lightning Helix
2 glare of subdual
3 Ghostly Prison
Land
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundery
4 Temple Garden
6 forest
6 mountain
Just a prototype I'll work on it a bit more later
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
Also, Recollect probably isn't worth playing, and with 8 shuffle effects, you might as well run Top.
I don't really feel that you have enough guys to make Glare effective. I wonder why they changed Opposition to a two color spell and made it worse anyway.
Bel: I don't think that you can really use as a finisher without running STE and Reach/Farkseek anyway. Green's 'finishing' capabilities are basically: KotNT, and he likes to eat those Forests.
And never had cheap creatures, it just borrowed them from :symg:(gogo Squirrel's Nest).
im interested, what better finishers does green provide?
Kodama of the North Tree, Hunted Troll, Ayumi, the Last Visitor, Arashi, Sky Asunder, Iwamori of the Open Fist, Loxodon Hierarch...
In other words, they just provide very efficiently costed, hard to kill/evasive creatures.
- Natsume
Yup I agree opposition would be fairly strong in this metagame....
I dont think a green splash is warranted. It becomes an entirely different deck. Cyan is pretty much right, if you are running green at the moment you need sakura and the mana acceleration that is otherwise made available. If you were to do that you would have a wildfire deck with a horribly inconsistent mana base. The green splash also wouldnt aid our fight against BG either. The only huge green guy I would want would bem kodama and hes not exactly splash friendly with triple green specific.
all the guys you listed besides kodama are fairly easily dealt with, and even then wrath creases your shorts.
Anon - control RGW
eh, hunted troll is ok, but the rest don't really impress me. other than kadoma, who cost triple green, the others are all as easy or easier to kill as what we already play.
edit: IbTG beat me to it, but he's right. green offers nothing to this deck and makes your mana base very weak. i'll stick to r/w myself...
Anon - control RGW
I think we shoud use this deck as the skeleton of RW Control, so what improvemtns can be added here to improve our game against BG (aka the rock)?
EDIT: Should shinning shoal be in this list?
i was thinking about priveleged position today too.
as long as we have the 3 white mana it could help out the situation.
granted you need 2 in play to make itself untargetable...but at the very least it forces your opponent to require a naturalize AND a removal spell in hand before he can kill a creature.
obviously only sideboard...i havnt even started working on the sideboard yet though, so i dont know if there are better options already to fill it up.
in the wildfire/hunted dragon versions, i would say no, only in the SB. in the purification/yosei versions, i would say yes.
and i like the possibility of myojin. i was happy when i put konda into the deck, as i have been waiting for a use for him since he came out. but then i remembered last gasp...and kag
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haven't tested the deck without wildfire but shoal definately belongs in that build. maybe something like this.
4x devouring light
4x wrath of God
4x lightning helix
4x shining shoal
4x ghostly prison
3x char
3x journeyer's kite
2x genju of the fields
3x yosei, the morning star
3x hunted dragon
3x firemane angel
Lands
10 plains
4 mountain
4 battlefield forge
4 soul foundry
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
4x Terashi's Grasp
3x ivory mask
3x jester's cap
3x pure intentions
2x shard phoenix
on paper, this deck looks better than the wildfire version. the shoal combined with the burn can send a lot of damage to the dome. it also lets you run the kite, which thins the deck, something this deck really needs.
no room for, don't want to take out useful spells to add it. the thinning the kite provides combined with making sure you don't miss a land drop if need be is good enough. besides, there is rarely a time im looking for a specific spell, alot of the deck is redundent.
Anon - control RGW
Mafia Stats
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MEGAMATT
Pros:
-Often Clears board agaianst aggro
-Works will with all your creatures except firemane
-Has synergy with signet
Cons:
-Opponent may be able to recover fast
-Slow
So which path do we take?
I also run Top and I love it. It helps fix my draws. I have never tried without it. I was originally using the Kite/Top Engine, but switched to Top/Gifts. Maybe I will take them out and test without them, maybe go to 4 fires, 4 gifts and 2 of something else.
Those of you arguing with me were right.
Razia is crap
Wildfire is crap
Spectral Searchlight is crap
Char isn't complete crap, and i may still run it, but its not great
hunted dragon is crap
Shining Shoal is crap
I played a LOT of B/G matches last night, and the deck sucks. At least the way *I* made it. Now I'm going back on a lot of the stuff I've said, but hey, lol, i was ignorant okay?
I'm still not a fan of firemane angel, but the thing is, she keeps coming back... and thats what i need. So I'm going to run her... Wildfire I found was much too slow, and had too little effect on the matchup that matters most: B/G. B/G is going to be huge, and we need to be prepared for it.
So... with hunted dragon being really suboptimal for me, i'm going to have to find some replacements. Yosei was more successful for me than I anticipated however, so i think I'm going to run him LOTS... Myojin of Cleansing Fire has crossed my mind too... but I'm unsure... But the fact is, I need win conditions, so I'll fit a single one in.
So, lol, some of you have officially proven that you actually test your decks lol... there goes my awesome arguments in the name of theory :p:p:p lol
anyways, so with my new burst of wisdom, here's what my deck is going to look like:
4x Yosei, the Morning Star
3x Firemane Angel
1x Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Spells:
4x Wrath of God
4x Lightning Helix
4x Boros Signet
4x Devouring Light
3x Pyroclasm
3x Char
3x Faith's Fetters
2x Final Judgment
2x Terashi's Grasp
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Battlefield Forge
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Eiganjo Castle
8x Plains
4x Mountain
4x Pure Intentions
3x Ivory Mask
4x Pithing Needle
1x Pyroclasm
1x Terashi's Grasp
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Final Judgment
I haven't put MUCH thought into the sideboard... but that's basically the deck.
To be honest, it looks more like MWC with a red splash than an actual R/W deck, lol, but im hoping it performs better... my BIGGEST problem against B/G was those stupid grave-shell scarabs. I could deal with everything else, but the scarabs were the things that always killed me really irritating...
i opted for final judgment since removing stuff from the game is particularly good against both kokusho and the scarab, two of my biggest worries... another cool inclusion is Faith's Fetters... i originally didn't notice that it could hit a permanent, which is a really big deal sometimes. often enough, ive almost wanted to shut down MIREN because it was being a pain in the butt... the fetters are good against both aggro and control, as against aggro you lock a creature and gain some life, and against control the card you lock will likely be more important than some random weenie... it also does well against jittes if they come to be seen everywhere.
and i haven't tried to fit it in my deck, but ive found some new secret tech in the form of a win condition which some people may have forgotten about: Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
this card is nice because the artifact itself CAN dodge putrefies and naturalizes (good thing, even if expensive), can boost a creature if need be (if you have 9 mana, why not?) and a recursive win condition is probably the best thing about it... as it keeps coming back and will eventually wear out B/Gs arsenal of kill... the biggest problem is of course pithing needle, so it would really have to be tested to see if its effective or not... but its an option for those who are looking for something a bit "different"... 12 mana is the biggest problem, since youd want 12 in order to play then use the ability... but its pretty solid.
so, comments on the deck? im going to be doing some more testing tomorrow with it, so i should be able to get back with some (hopefully more promising) results.... until then, discuss!