Firemane Angel isn't a very good source of lifegain. How do you get it in the graveyard before turn 6?
With the card I mentioned along with it - Peace of Mind.
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Non-Judge - Comprehensive Rules Delver
|| Autocard || My Latest Project || Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
GAH! I just typed out this HUGE thing...here is the short
Keeping your opponent from winning = good (ala life gain).
Most people think of bad life gain cards, and thats why they don't like them.
Hondens + boardsweeper normally = gg
Wildfire is a keeper in my deck, as said hondens + boardsweeper = gg
Theres a couple cards that I like and think should go into the deck,
1.Yosei-why not hes a nice beatstick and has control properties.
2. Loxodon Gatekeeper- I have 3 of these now and I'm amazed, it slows down your opponent greatly and only costs 4 mana.
3. Warpworld might be fun but I'm not sure.
my build is tron build that can either clear the board with brightflame, or cast razia's purification to clear the board with yosei out and swing away with big creatures such as razia. It seems to have the power to hold off defeat until some bomb creature can be played.
Does that deck really have enough shuffle effects to use Top? Granted, Wayfarer searches alot, but, he's just a 1/1 guy, in a field FULL of removal..plus, you only have 3 copies of each Tron piece...and like every spell in your deck costs a million...if you ever don't get the Tron for some reason, and quickly, you have zero hope of winning.
I have taken a long absence from Standard ever since Mirrodin was introduced. I never liked the idea of Affinity, or any one deck, dominating the environment, so I decided to stay away until Mirrodin left Standard.
Now that it's on its way out, I decided to look at a card that I always enjoyed playing; Wildfire . I scrolled though the Rav Visual Spoiler and I noticed that Cataclysm now has a re-incarnation ... so I decided to try out this interesting combination of cards.
Note: I usually do not play Standard. I don't have much of an idea as to the metagame, except for White Weenie, Green Beats, Black Hand, and Gifts. I am attempting this deck despite my lack of knowledge on the subject. I come to you all, the better informed community of players, to help and assist me in my query. Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
If I have to explain card choices compared to others, please tell me. And again, I'm not a Type 2 Player, so I don't expect to get it right immediately. I know some of my card choices are wierd or unexpected ....
dude, there is already a rw control thread... you might want to post this there or just ask a mod to move it for you. there are quite a few pages of relevant testing data that I provided myself. if you have any questions or want to discuss the deck you could pm me aswell.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
if you play tron you cant play wildfire, which is fundamentally one of the reasons to play this deck. I also dont understand how you could play purification in a deck that with such high cc spells where you rely on tron to cast them. did you test that build at all?
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
I don't really like Purification anyway..it's 6 mana to leave your opponent with whatever 3 permanents he wants the most. Granted, you get to do the same thing, but, in a Control deck, you're probably not going to have legitimate guys to keep w/ it, whereas your opponent probably will.
Here is what I am currently playing and yes Wildfires slobbers all over G/B. The deck still needs tweeked a bit and I am looking for some intellegent insight into how to make it better. I am not going to play peace of mind or searing meditations because I have tried them and they make me sad. I think the problem lies in the creatures I am currently using so anyone with any suggestions on what creatures would work better ?
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"Some say it's better to think before you act. While those people are considering all the options, that's usually when I kill them."
All Praises be to Topher patron saint of sig banners thanx for the awesome banner.
Official member of the Orzhov Syndicate
"Hate is just a special kind of love we give to those who suck" - Me
I actually have a really, really good idea for a finisher in this deck: Konda, Lord of Eiganjo. G/B will never be able to remove Konda once it hits play, and you can Wrath and Wildfire to your heart's delight and it won't go anywhere. It plays defense and is a great attacker. I think Konda was tailor made for this deck.
well there are some versions that are running kagemaro, I know I am. not only that though but due to lack of dudes konda can be cruel edicted away without a second thought.
Here is what I am currently playing and yes Wildfires slobbers all over G/B.
MUCer I dont understand how you can say something as crazy as that. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of this assanine claim. I mean the few of us that have tested are saying that BG is arguably the decks worst matchup, I mean its not even a mediocre one. The numbers are easily 60/40 in favor of BG. They can extract your primary win conditions. they run just as much, if not more acceleration so they will be hitting land drops as consistently as you. Because of this they will also have a pretty strong game post wildfire. Just think about it, you cast hunted dragon and swing for 6, at this point I know you have a wildfire or pyroclasm and I chump with my bird. the following turn you tap out and play a wildfire, I pool three and putrefy but not before I hit you for 6 the turn before with the knights you gave me. I also have ink-eyes which is an eternal pain in your ass because wildfire will never kill him and he can rob firemane and yosei from you... persecute also bends you over. I just cant see how you can say the deck "slobbers" on BG, it doesnt.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
I can say that because I have been testing the deck for a while with proxies, and anytime wildfire resolves against g/b I win. It is my own oppinion based upon the testing of the deck against other decks that should be viable in post rav standard. I have tested this deck against r/g fires, g/b, r/w aggro, zoo, u/b aggro, and u/b mill. The deck rulez all aggro builds hands down. It as a general rule beats fires and mill. It has a bit of trouble against rock but I would put it more at 50/50 then 60/40. And u/b control really hasn't shown me much of anything, counters hurt...but beyond that I am rolling it. This deck is going to be strong in post rav standard and is very playable and resiliant. The only problem I am having is with my creature base and would like a bit of help with that which is why I posted the deck list in the first place. So any ideas would be helpful thanx.
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"Some say it's better to think before you act. While those people are considering all the options, that's usually when I kill them."
All Praises be to Topher patron saint of sig banners thanx for the awesome banner.
Official member of the Orzhov Syndicate
"Hate is just a special kind of love we give to those who suck" - Me
I would definately like to play you sometime because I have had wildfire resolved 3 times in a single game and I have still won.
any competitive deck should hands down beat UB mill, its terrible.
I agree that this deck owns aggro variants, but BG is more control than anything.
no way is the matchup 50/50, you cant say that with all of the things I just named. BG simply rapes this deck. Like its no flaw in a list you made, and it doesnt mean you are a bad player, but honestly man there is no way you can post 50/50 numbers as an accurate representation of the winning percentages in this matchup. to put it simply this deck just has a bad matchup, a bad matchup against the most popular and consistent deck in the format.
for guys I was running
3x yosei
3x hunted dragon
2x firemane angel
1x myojin of cleanising fire
this gets around extraction a bit but putrefy and rend still hurt quite a bit.
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Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
This is essentially IBTG list from page 8, but with some of my improvements. The most notible ones are the inclusion of Scroll, which, due to the card advantage created by Gift of Estates can be used, even if it isn't drawn early in the game. If you do get it early in the game, unless you are facing a very aggressive deck (which you should be able to beat with all of the removal) it will draw you 5-10 cards over the course of the game, which is great.
I'm also using the direct damage sideboard to beat BG, but I need a bit more testing.
I also went up to 4 Boros Garrisons, because of their synergy with Gift of Estates and Wildfire.
after testing a version of this last night spot removal is this decks biggest issue. anything with black owns most of the decks i've seen here so far. i decided to go with creatures that are a bit harder to get rid of.
hunted dragon is gone because most decks have a way to deal with it before it does its damage. between any spot removal and the fact that the predominate aggro deck is comprised mostly of fliers i just didn't find it very useful. paladin is immune to spot removal and blinking spirit is almost unkillable. discard also hits this deck hard which is why ivory mask and pure intentions are in the sb(people like to blow up ivory mask). the shoal comes out of the board to act more as finishing burn than anything else...
extraction really hurts that list, I think you need a more diverse creature base.
Im still very against scroll, it seems like a wasted four slots. aside from the fact that it is contingent upon having a very specifc number of cards in hand, needles and naturalize effects are all over the place. I just dont see it as an effective way to consistently create card advantage.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
extraction really hurts that list, I think you need a more diverse creature base.
Im still very against scroll, it seems like a wasted four slots. aside from the fact that it is contingent upon having a very specifc number of cards in hand, needles and naturalize effects are all over the place. I just dont see it as an effective way to consistently create card advantage.
aww, no comment for my list. i have to agree, the scroll is to situational for this deck and only having 6 win conditions in a deck with little card draw is a bad idea.
Okay, basically... here's the plan of the deck. Naturally, it's a control deck. But one of the main things I like about this list is that it is A) good against aggro (since it sports a lot of spot and mass removal) and B) it also can be good against control, since they are more creature light, and as a result, burn spells can then be targeted at the head instead of the creatures. this makes it multitask quite well in a variety of fields (I think, i have yet to test)
razia is my pick for a finisher as opposed to firemane angel... razia hits harder, swings faster (quite a big deal in a lot of instances) and will also be able to dodge wildfire and take out an opposing finisher if need-be. Firemane doesn't dodge wildfire so well since you're saccing 4 lands to it... so youd need 14 mana to be able to be okay... and that's not cool.
hunted dragon is also pretty neat, since with ghostly prison, pyroclasm and wildfire, you've got a 6/6 haste with almost no drawback. pretty sweet
one of the things which im going to be trying out is spectral searchlight... it doubles as a source of mana (which CAN be useful in some situations... but doesn't come out fast enough to really accelerate you) and as a source of damage. in a deck heavy with direct damage spells (Char, Helix, Shining Shoal in some instances) that one point per turn can make a big difference, especially when a 6/? flying haste comes into play...
the deck looks pretty solid aside from the sideboard, which is m00t at this point since we don't have a truly established meta... yes, people will be playing B/G and U/B mill etc. etc.... but we don't know how those lists will look in the long run, so i just tried to gear it as Control/Aggro board... something like that.
Anyways, what do you guys think? I personally feel firemane angel is a bad choice, but that's personal opinion as its too much mana for too little effect... the one life per turn (once its dead or alive) is kind of sweet... but not particularly useful in a lot of instances.
in regards to instant removal, i dont think it should be too much of a problem if you play around it correctly... 6 haste swinging at the opponents head is usually pretty surefire, even if they are playing a playset of putrefies... youve just got to know when to swing in methinks... if you manage to swing it in, then thats a 6 point lifeswing that will help a lot (when running 4 spectral searchlights and 8 direct burn spells, that 6 life will make a difference)
22 Land with no Gift of Estates, or any other mana fixing below 3 mana is not enough for a deck that wants to be able to wildfire consistantly and be able to recover.
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4x Char
4x Reverse Damage
4x Wrath of God
2x Razia's Purification
4x Peace of Mind
4x Searing Meditation
2x Circle of Protection: Red
4x Firemane Angel
3x Gift of Estates
5x Mountain
7x Plains
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Boros Garrison
With the card I mentioned along with it - Peace of Mind.
Which color are you?
Non-Judge - Comprehensive Rules Delver
|| Autocard || My Latest Project ||
Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
Keeping your opponent from winning = good (ala life gain).
Most people think of bad life gain cards, and thats why they don't like them.
Hondens + boardsweeper normally = gg
Wildfire is a keeper in my deck, as said hondens + boardsweeper = gg
1.Yosei-why not hes a nice beatstick and has control properties.
2. Loxodon Gatekeeper- I have 3 of these now and I'm amazed, it slows down your opponent greatly and only costs 4 mana.
3. Warpworld might be fun but I'm not sure.
Anyway heres my current build.
2 Yosei, the morning star
3 Loxodon Gatekeeper
2 Hunted Dragon
4 Paladin en-vec or Samurai of the Pale curtain
Instant/Sorceries 25
4 Devouring Light
4 Pyroclasm
4 Lightning Helix
2 Final Judgement
4 Wrath of God
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Shock
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundery
9 Plains
7 mountins
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
4 Firemane Angel
4 Yosei, The Morning Star
3 Razia, Boros Archangel
2 Blazing Archon
4 Weathered Wayfarer
Non-Creature Spells
4 Wrath of God
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Razia’s Purification
4 Lightning Helix
2 Brightflame
3 Urza’s Tower
3 Urza’s Mine
3 Urza’s Powerplant
4 Sacred Forge
4 Mountain
5 Plains
4 Sowing Salt
4 Pithing Needle
3 Story Circle
4 Devouring Light
Thirsty for Chicken?
:vader: Yankees Rock:vader:
:trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper: :trooper:
The Story of Raffinity
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=100284#post100284
Get em ' While they're Hot!!
T2:
G/W Control
1.X:
Goblin Revenge
4 Searing Meditation
3 Firemane Angel
4 Lightning Helix
3 Bottled Cloister
3 Piece of Mind
3 Terashi's Grasp
2 Final Judgment
4 Char
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chastise
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
7 Plains
5 Mountain
That's my rough decklist so far. I need to find something to put in for Chastise if I plan on running Cloister though.
Level One WoW TCG Judge
My Ratings - My Trades
I have taken a long absence from Standard ever since Mirrodin was introduced. I never liked the idea of Affinity, or any one deck, dominating the environment, so I decided to stay away until Mirrodin left Standard.
Now that it's on its way out, I decided to look at a card that I always enjoyed playing; Wildfire . I scrolled though the Rav Visual Spoiler and I noticed that Cataclysm now has a re-incarnation ... so I decided to try out this interesting combination of cards.
Note: I usually do not play Standard. I don't have much of an idea as to the metagame, except for White Weenie, Green Beats, Black Hand, and Gifts. I am attempting this deck despite my lack of knowledge on the subject. I come to you all, the better informed community of players, to help and assist me in my query. Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
2 Hunted Dragon [RAV]
3 Seismic Spike [RAV]
2 Rathi Dragon [9th]
3 Seething Song [9th]
4 Shock [9th]
3 Stone Rain [9th]
3 Wildfire [9th]
3 Thoughts of Ruin [SoK]
4 Lightning Helix [RAV]
3 Razia's Purification [RAV]
Artifact:
3 Boros Signet [RAV]
3 Spectral Searchlight [RAV]
3 Ur-Golem's Eye [9th]
Land:
4 Sacred Foundry [RAV]
4 Battlefield Forge [9th]
13 Mountain [The new ones are schmexy]
3 Devouring Light [RAV]
4 Supression Field [RAV]
3 Terashi's Grasp [BoK]
2 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker [SoK]
3 Pyroclasm [9th]
If I have to explain card choices compared to others, please tell me. And again, I'm not a Type 2 Player, so I don't expect to get it right immediately. I know some of my card choices are wierd or unexpected ....
Anon - control RGW
Anon - control RGW
3x Hunted Dragon
3x Yosei, The Morning Star
4x Wrath of God
3x Wildfire
3x Ghostly Prison
4x Lightning Helix
4x Devouring Light
3x Gift of Estates
4x Char
3x Pyroclasm
4x Sacred Foundry
8x Plains
6x Mountain
Here is what I am currently playing and yes Wildfires slobbers all over G/B. The deck still needs tweeked a bit and I am looking for some intellegent insight into how to make it better. I am not going to play peace of mind or searing meditations because I have tried them and they make me sad. I think the problem lies in the creatures I am currently using so anyone with any suggestions on what creatures would work better ?
All Praises be to Topher patron saint of sig banners thanx for the awesome banner.
Official member of the Orzhov Syndicate
"Hate is just a special kind of love we give to those who suck" - Me
EDIT:
Wait, they still have Kagemaro, don't they.
MUCer I dont understand how you can say something as crazy as that. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of this assanine claim. I mean the few of us that have tested are saying that BG is arguably the decks worst matchup, I mean its not even a mediocre one. The numbers are easily 60/40 in favor of BG. They can extract your primary win conditions. they run just as much, if not more acceleration so they will be hitting land drops as consistently as you. Because of this they will also have a pretty strong game post wildfire. Just think about it, you cast hunted dragon and swing for 6, at this point I know you have a wildfire or pyroclasm and I chump with my bird. the following turn you tap out and play a wildfire, I pool three and putrefy but not before I hit you for 6 the turn before with the knights you gave me. I also have ink-eyes which is an eternal pain in your ass because wildfire will never kill him and he can rob firemane and yosei from you... persecute also bends you over. I just cant see how you can say the deck "slobbers" on BG, it doesnt.
Anon - control RGW
All Praises be to Topher patron saint of sig banners thanx for the awesome banner.
Official member of the Orzhov Syndicate
"Hate is just a special kind of love we give to those who suck" - Me
I would definately like to play you sometime because I have had wildfire resolved 3 times in a single game and I have still won.
any competitive deck should hands down beat UB mill, its terrible.
I agree that this deck owns aggro variants, but BG is more control than anything.
no way is the matchup 50/50, you cant say that with all of the things I just named. BG simply rapes this deck. Like its no flaw in a list you made, and it doesnt mean you are a bad player, but honestly man there is no way you can post 50/50 numbers as an accurate representation of the winning percentages in this matchup. to put it simply this deck just has a bad matchup, a bad matchup against the most popular and consistent deck in the format.
for guys I was running
3x yosei
3x hunted dragon
2x firemane angel
1x myojin of cleanising fire
this gets around extraction a bit but putrefy and rend still hurt quite a bit.
Anon - control RGW
3x Firemane Angel
3x Hunted Dragon
Card Advantage/Mana Fixing (8):
4x Gift of Estates
4x Scroll of Origins
Creature Control (20):
4x Wrath of God
4x Lightning Helix
4x Devouring Light
3x Wildfire
3x Pyroclasm
2x Final Judgment
3x Boros Signet
4x Boros Garrison
6x Plains
5x Mountain
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Battlefield Forge
2x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Flames of the Blood Hand
3x Terashi's Grasp
3x Ivory Mask
4x Blaze
This is essentially IBTG list from page 8, but with some of my improvements. The most notible ones are the inclusion of Scroll, which, due to the card advantage created by Gift of Estates can be used, even if it isn't drawn early in the game. If you do get it early in the game, unless you are facing a very aggressive deck (which you should be able to beat with all of the removal) it will draw you 5-10 cards over the course of the game, which is great.
I'm also using the direct damage sideboard to beat BG, but I need a bit more testing.
I also went up to 4 Boros Garrisons, because of their synergy with Gift of Estates and Wildfire.
4x Boros Signet
4x devouring light
4x wrath of god
4x wildfire
4x ghostly prison
4x lightning helix
3x char
3x paladin en-vec
3x firemane angel
2x blinking spirit
2x yosei, the morning star
Lands
9 plain
6 mountain
4 battlefield forge
4 soul foundry
4x Terashi's Grasp
3x ivory mask
3x defense grid
3x shining shoal
2x pure intentions
hunted dragon is gone because most decks have a way to deal with it before it does its damage. between any spot removal and the fact that the predominate aggro deck is comprised mostly of fliers i just didn't find it very useful. paladin is immune to spot removal and blinking spirit is almost unkillable. discard also hits this deck hard which is why ivory mask and pure intentions are in the sb(people like to blow up ivory mask). the shoal comes out of the board to act more as finishing burn than anything else...
Im still very against scroll, it seems like a wasted four slots. aside from the fact that it is contingent upon having a very specifc number of cards in hand, needles and naturalize effects are all over the place. I just dont see it as an effective way to consistently create card advantage.
Anon - control RGW
4 Paladin en-Vec
3 Hunted Lammasu
3 Hunted Dragon
4 Lightning Helix
3 Gift of Estates
4 Wrath of God
4 Wildfire
3 Razia's Purification
1 Form of the Dragon
4 Boros Signet
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Boros Garrison
7 Plains
7 Mountain
aww, no comment for my list. i have to agree, the scroll is to situational for this deck and only having 6 win conditions in a deck with little card draw is a bad idea.
2x Razia, Boros Archangel
2x Yosei, the Morning Star
3x Hunted Dragon
Spells:
4x Char
4x Lightning Helix
4x Wrath of God
4x Spectral Searchlight
3x Pyroclasm
3x Ghostly Prison
3x Devouring Light
3x Wildfire
3x Shining Shoal
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Battlefield Forge
7x Mountain
7x Plains
1x Devouring Light
1x Pyroclasm
1x Ghostly Prison
4x Suppression Field -OR-
4x Pithing Needle
3x Terashi's Grasp
3x Ivory Mask
2x Something?
Okay, basically... here's the plan of the deck. Naturally, it's a control deck. But one of the main things I like about this list is that it is A) good against aggro (since it sports a lot of spot and mass removal) and B) it also can be good against control, since they are more creature light, and as a result, burn spells can then be targeted at the head instead of the creatures. this makes it multitask quite well in a variety of fields (I think, i have yet to test)
razia is my pick for a finisher as opposed to firemane angel... razia hits harder, swings faster (quite a big deal in a lot of instances) and will also be able to dodge wildfire and take out an opposing finisher if need-be. Firemane doesn't dodge wildfire so well since you're saccing 4 lands to it... so youd need 14 mana to be able to be okay... and that's not cool.
hunted dragon is also pretty neat, since with ghostly prison, pyroclasm and wildfire, you've got a 6/6 haste with almost no drawback. pretty sweet
one of the things which im going to be trying out is spectral searchlight... it doubles as a source of mana (which CAN be useful in some situations... but doesn't come out fast enough to really accelerate you) and as a source of damage. in a deck heavy with direct damage spells (Char, Helix, Shining Shoal in some instances) that one point per turn can make a big difference, especially when a 6/? flying haste comes into play...
the deck looks pretty solid aside from the sideboard, which is m00t at this point since we don't have a truly established meta... yes, people will be playing B/G and U/B mill etc. etc.... but we don't know how those lists will look in the long run, so i just tried to gear it as Control/Aggro board... something like that.
Anyways, what do you guys think? I personally feel firemane angel is a bad choice, but that's personal opinion as its too much mana for too little effect... the one life per turn (once its dead or alive) is kind of sweet... but not particularly useful in a lot of instances.
in regards to instant removal, i dont think it should be too much of a problem if you play around it correctly... 6 haste swinging at the opponents head is usually pretty surefire, even if they are playing a playset of putrefies... youve just got to know when to swing in methinks... if you manage to swing it in, then thats a 6 point lifeswing that will help a lot (when running 4 spectral searchlights and 8 direct burn spells, that 6 life will make a difference)
anyways... discuss!