Went 2-3 with soorani's build at a pptq, won against coco elves and U/R Control, lost a close game to 4c rites and WB control as well as bant coco, moving forward we definitely need more removal to deal with reality smasher after game 1 against the rites deck possibly roast? Also
I think I'm going to put Fevered Visions back in as well and might up the path count to 3 in the main 1 in the board and possible add in a sin prodded or 2 in the board I also think that going 4 GDD is the better choice then 3 as well as finding room in the board for maybe 1 painfully Truths for those control matches, thoughts?
Roast might be a good shout. It also deals with Sylvan Advocates in the late game and I agree we're definitely soft to Reality Smasher, that was largely the card that killed me from BW Midrange after board. I really, really miss Disdainful Stroke. Upping the Ruinous Path count to at least 3 in the main 60 is probably correct as well.
I tried playing 2 Molten Vortex alongside Fevered Visions in my SB. Helps fasten the clock againt slow decks by tossing extra lands you inevitably draw. Worked pretty well.
My concern with this is that it takes up a lot of sideboard slots (five) that would probably be better served as a diversity of answers. I think 3x Fevered Visions is the number if you're going to play them, but I don't think realistically we can also spend another two slots on 2x Molten Vortex without severely limiting our options decks that aren't slow. If your local meta is mostly slow, durdly decks then this is 100% correct for you to do, but if you're attending a Grand Prix or even a PPTQ then I can't say the same.
how necessary is Jace VP in this deck? I'm interested in this deck as my esper control is a little too slow for my liking, but jace is quite a bit out of my price range.
Just a heads up but budget discussion is not allowed in the Proven forum. Thanks! -- Lugger
Hard to sideboard when we don't know the decklist lol. It's hard to sideboard in general as you have to sideboard based on the cards you see.
Control: duress, transgress, possibly dark petition, silumgars command
Aggro: Radiant Flames
Midrange: infinite obliteration, transgress the mind, dark petition, silumgars command
I'm playing this deck for a while and no doubt it's very strong, but I feel GW tokens is a very bad matchup. I'm not sure about how good Radiant Flames is, as sometimes they can go over it very fast, making it a poor topdeck. The eot Secury the Wastes plus Westvale Abbey flip is very hard to handle also. My only answers are a single Silumgar's Command and two copies of Dragonlord Silumgar (not so helpful if I'm at 9 or less life).
How could we make this match better for us?
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:Current Decks:
Standard: UBR Grixis Control
Modern: U Merfolk
Commander: UB Wydwen, the biting gale
I'm playing this deck for a while and no doubt it's very strong, but I feel GW tokens is a very bad matchup. I'm not sure about how good Radiant Flames is, as sometimes they can go over it very fast, making it a poor topdeck. The eot Secury the Wastes plus Westvale Abbey flip is very hard to handle also. My only answers are a single Silumgar's Command and two copies of Dragonlord Silumgar (not so helpful if I'm at 9 or less life).
How could we make this match better for us?
For you, if you feel the need put in languish over radiant flames. However it will also kill most of your own creatures. Or even add another copy of radiant flames to the main deck. Virulent plague from the board helps and if that still isn't enough put a kozileks return in the sideboard.
I'm playing this deck for a while and no doubt it's very strong, but I feel GW tokens is a very bad matchup. I'm not sure about how good Radiant Flames is, as sometimes they can go over it very fast, making it a poor topdeck. The eot Secury the Wastes plus Westvale Abbey flip is very hard to handle also. My only answers are a single Silumgar's Command and two copies of Dragonlord Silumgar (not so helpful if I'm at 9 or less life).
How could we make this match better for us?
We have plenty of sideboard options; Virulent Plague and Crumble to Dust are the obvious inclusions, as well as Negate. We can't be good pre-board against everything, that's what sideboards are for! So use those fifteen cards to shore up what you think your weaknesses are.
Overloading on sweeper effects is not how you beat GW Tokens. In fact, sweepers from control decks in general aren't even very good against us. You need them because you can't simply not have a sweeper effect, as you will eventually get clobbered by mass tokens otherwise, but they're just your way of catching up on board. It's not like against Wx Humans where you're actually trading your one card for 3-4 of theirs (and thus pulling ahead on card count and allowing you to turn the corner soon), here you're trading a card for a few planeswalker activations more often than not, which is just maintaining parity, assuming you answered the planeswalkers themselves already.
You lose to Gideon and friends beating down just as much if not more than the actual tokens I think, at least in my experience on the flip side. Sweepers are generally pretty poor against them -- Hangarback Walker survives them in some form no matter what the sweeper is, Avacyn dodges Radiant Flames and Advocate, if not hastily run out before land drop #6, dodges all of them in your colors; Gideon obviously can't ever be hit by them. Overloading on them is a great way to die to Gideon +1 with 2 copies of Kozilek's Return or whatever in your hand.
Virulent Plague is your best way of making the matchup better, and Negate isn't far behind. Plague is the exception to my comments on sweepers earlier, because it trades for all token-generation planeswalker activations, past present and future, which means that our planeswalkers are basically 1-for-1 threats now. (It also sometimes trades for actual cards -- like Secure the Wastes -- and it generates virtual card advantage by making Westvale Abbey and Hangarback Walker much worse.) Negate is really good because it cleanly trades 1-for-1 with our planeswalkers while netting mana. Duress also hits like 40% of the deck, and while it trades down on mana (1 for 0), you really want to be able to 1-for-1 our planeswalkers, even at a minor mana loss.
Overloading on sweeper effects is not how you beat GW Tokens. In fact, sweepers from control decks in general aren't even very good against us. You need them because you can't simply not have a sweeper effect, as you will eventually get clobbered by mass tokens otherwise, but they're just your way of catching up on board. It's not like against Wx Humans where you're actually trading your one card for 3-4 of theirs (and thus pulling ahead on card count and allowing you to turn the corner soon), here you're trading a card for a few planeswalker activations more often than not, which is just maintaining parity, assuming you answered the planeswalkers themselves already.
You lose to Gideon and friends beating down just as much if not more than the actual tokens I think, at least in my experience on the flip side. Sweepers are generally pretty poor against them -- Hangarback Walker survives them in some form no matter what the sweeper is, Avacyn dodges Radiant Flames and Advocate, if not hastily run out before land drop #6, dodges all of them in your colors; Gideon obviously can't ever be hit by them. Overloading on them is a great way to die to Gideon +1 with 2 copies of Kozilek's Return or whatever in your hand.
Virulent Plague is your best way of making the matchup better, and Negate isn't far behind. Plague is the exception to my comments on sweepers earlier, because it trades for all token-generation planeswalker activations, past present and future, which means that our planeswalkers are basically 1-for-1 threats now. (It also sometimes trades for actual cards -- like Secure the Wastes -- and it generates virtual card advantage by making Westvale Abbey and Hangarback Walker much worse.) Negate is really good because it cleanly trades 1-for-1 with our planeswalkers while netting mana. Duress also hits like 40% of the deck, and while it trades down on mana (1 for 0), you really want to be able to 1-for-1 our planeswalkers, even at a minor mana loss.
I appreciate the perspective on the matchup from the other side, so thanks for that. Do you feel like the threat of Virulent Plague forces you to keep in some number of Dromoka's Command after the first game, despite the card being fairly weak in the matchup otherwise? Unless I'm just seriously undervaluing it and it's actually one of your best cards.
Overloading on sweeper effects is not how you beat GW Tokens. In fact, sweepers from control decks in general aren't even very good against us. You need them because you can't simply not have a sweeper effect, as you will eventually get clobbered by mass tokens otherwise, but they're just your way of catching up on board. It's not like against Wx Humans where you're actually trading your one card for 3-4 of theirs (and thus pulling ahead on card count and allowing you to turn the corner soon), here you're trading a card for a few planeswalker activations more often than not, which is just maintaining parity, assuming you answered the planeswalkers themselves already.
You lose to Gideon and friends beating down just as much if not more than the actual tokens I think, at least in my experience on the flip side. Sweepers are generally pretty poor against them -- Hangarback Walker survives them in some form no matter what the sweeper is, Avacyn dodges Radiant Flames and Advocate, if not hastily run out before land drop #6, dodges all of them in your colors; Gideon obviously can't ever be hit by them. Overloading on them is a great way to die to Gideon +1 with 2 copies of Kozilek's Return or whatever in your hand.
Virulent Plague is your best way of making the matchup better, and Negate isn't far behind. Plague is the exception to my comments on sweepers earlier, because it trades for all token-generation planeswalker activations, past present and future, which means that our planeswalkers are basically 1-for-1 threats now. (It also sometimes trades for actual cards -- like Secure the Wastes -- and it generates virtual card advantage by making Westvale Abbey and Hangarback Walker much worse.) Negate is really good because it cleanly trades 1-for-1 with our planeswalkers while netting mana. Duress also hits like 40% of the deck, and while it trades down on mana (1 for 0), you really want to be able to 1-for-1 our planeswalkers, even at a minor mana loss.
I appreciate the perspective on the matchup from the other side, so thanks for that. Do you feel like the threat of Virulent Plague forces you to keep in some number of Dromoka's Command after the first game, despite the card being fairly weak in the matchup otherwise? Unless I'm just seriously undervaluing it and it's actually one of your best cards.
I leave it in against Kalitas + Virulent Plague decks. It does some little work in the deck in general (putting counters on Hangarback Walker is actually a big deal, it's easy to arrange a fight for a token to die for Avacyn to flip), and specifically against Grixis or Mardu shells that rely on Radiant Flames I actually really like the card. One of the things I like about GW Tokens at large is that it makes maximal use not only of Avacyn but of Dromoka's Command -- where in a lot of decks it's just counter+fight and maybe something good in some circumstances, we actually get more mileage out of it due to Avacyn and Hangarback Walker. While it's still not a spectacular card, I do leave it in and I don't feel bad about it -- knowing you're bringing in powerful enchantments to attack my deck makes me happier to see it as well, since I need to be able to trade as cleanly with Plague as possible.
How's everyone liking this deck right now? I'm thinking about picking up the few pieces I don't already have for it. Great excuse to get some play out of the play set of JVP's I spent $75 a piece on (which I've already lost some $20 dollars ea on as his price continues to slide). The only things I need are a few more Dark Dwellers, a set of Kalitas and 3x Kolaghan's command. I've had a hard time making connections at the game shops I've been going to so trading has been difficult. I have a binder full of great stuff because my boyfriend has an addiction to cracking packs (he used to like doing scratch tickets but packs are his new gambling addiction... one I benefit from :sunny:)... but no one to trade with! lol
How's everyone liking this deck right now? I'm thinking about picking up the few pieces I don't already have for it. Great excuse to get some play out of the play set of JVP's I spent $75 a piece on (which I've already lost some $20 dollars ea on as his price continues to slide). The only things I need are a few more Dark Dwellers, a set of Kalitas and 3x Kolaghan's command. I've had a hard time making connections at the game shops I've been going to so trading has been difficult. I have a binder full of great stuff because my boyfriend has an addiction to cracking packs (he used to like doing scratch tickets but packs are his new gambling addiction... one I benefit from :sunny:)... but no one to trade with! lol
Dark Dwellers, Kalitas Kolaghan's command
All Three are great cards and played in modern ass well.
I love my Esper Walkers deck, it brutally shuts most anything down and has unparralleled inevitability. My problem is that it's simply too slow for 50 minute rounds. I've taken it to FNM 6 times now and most of my matches go 1 win, 1 tie... because we went to turns while I had them under my thumb but wasn't able to close in time. The solution would be to play faster but that's not easy, there's a lot of thought that goes into every move in a pure control deck and I have to calculate my moves. I even had a game that took the whole round against another control deck. We grinded face for 48 minutes, I stuck a Sphinx and was able to close. We didn't bother starting a second game.
The only games I've ended fast are when I was able to stick another control opponent with a Narset emblem after casting her on the curve and again against a weird kitchen table brew that was built around Thing in the Ice that I hit with an Infinite Obliteration on turn 3 on round 2. Stripped out his primary win condition so he folded.
This deck appears to be significantly faster while still maintaining the control feel. I'm going to try a new FNM shop on Friday and hopefully I'll find some people to trade with to pick up the pieces I need.
I have some questions about the deck. I've built this deck recently (because my jeskai brew has failed hard), and I can't seem to get it to work. Here's decklist for reference:
Across 2 FNMs I lost to:
GR ramp
GB Seasons Past (ramp really, playing Ulamog, World breakers and ramp spells)
Bant Company
UW Eldrazi
UW Midrange Humans
BW Eldrazi
I won against:
GB Aristocrats
Mono-White Hmans
I stumbled on lands a lot, and sometimes removal didnt come on time. I could just say its a bad luck, but im inclined to think its about my deck building.
I've been playing this deck since a little after rotation so I am by no means an expert but I play test with a few other Grixis players so this is what I can conclude from your list. Your first list has the right land configuration but I would swap a Estuary for a Fumarole, since we don't run alot of creatures as is access to a 4 power manland comes in more helpful than you would think, I've won quite a few games with a Fumarole beatdown. I also run one less Ruins for another Swamp. As far as your creatures you can get away with 3 Kalitas but it's a must to run 4 GDD main, we are a card advantage/control deck and the ability for card recursion with GDD is crucial especially late game when you can GDD into a K-Command to bring another GDD back to reestablish your board after heavy removal. On that point of being a card advantage deck Read the Bones is a must as well, when I first started playing the deck I'd sideboard out RTB alot and realized that it was a mistake, it helps alot early game to filter to what you need depending on the deck you are playing against and late games lets you search for advantage or answers. Anticipate isn't as good for us since its a blue card with us primarily being a B/R control deck splashing blue for Jace, and the occasional DL Silumgar and only draws us one card at random instead of scrying. Transgress maindeck is better than Duress depending on your meta but currently the universal meta is heavily creature decks and with Bant and other Company decks starting to run Reality Smashers main and in the SB it's crucial to Transgress one because trying to draw a Ruinous Path to kill a Smasher and having to discard a card sucks for us, also it helps against alot of other powerful 3+ drops like Avacyn, planeswalkers, Ojutai etc. etc. As far as Dark Petition I only run 1 in the SB which I rarely side in but I will if I side in my Virulent Plague and Infinite Obliteration one ofs so I have better access to them. ALso your sideboard has alot of cards you want to mainboard instead like Radiant Flames and K-Command. Our mainboard is basically creature hate which is the majority of metas and your SB should be for control matchups/mirror match/and the 1 and 2 ofs of random decks you'll encounter, I'd also run Negate instead of Dispel since it hits Company, Encahnments, Season's Past, Planeswalkers and more.
Played in a small PPTQ yesterday, only 16 players so a relatively easy one to spike with only five rounds of swiss and a top 4 cut. I've been on Grixis for a while now, ever since Oliver Tiu started making waves with it at Pro Tour Shadows Over Innistrad. In the areas I play in, 4C Rites and Bant are really popular so I made the decision to run 4x Grasp of Darkness and 0x Ultimate Price and it worked really, really well... until it didn't.
The List
I think at this point the main 60 is relatively stock with very few flex slots; the only difference I tend to see is whether you're running Dark Petition in the main or the side. I tend to favor two copies in the main as it's just another copy of whatever spell you need but I can appreciate the other approach too. I see some variance between three and four copies of Goblin Dark-Dwellers as well and I have to say I think the full set is mandatory. Playing three or four copies of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is definitely down to personal preference and I tend to swing more towards three due to the legend rule. Having more than one in hand is pretty bad and having more than two is basically just a dead hand.
Round Two: Grixis Control
I find the mirror match to be very swingy. One player will be very far again and if they can capitalize on it, they'll snowball into a win. If they can't follow up their early advantage with anything, it's very easy for a couple of good draws for your opponent to swing it right back around on you. This is exactly what happened in games one and three; I had an early advantage but failed to convert it into sustained pressure and fell behind to better draws (runner, runner Read the Bones into Dark-Dwellers and Chandra). In the second game a turn three Infinite Obliteration took all of her Goblins and was eventually cast again to remove all of her Kalitas, resulting in a very quick victory. Unfortunate, but relatively close games and I don't think I could have done much differently. I lose 1-2.
In: 1x Read the Bones, 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Infinite Obliteration, 1x Transgress the Mind, 3x Negate
Out: 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 3x Fiery Impulse, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Grasp of Darkness, 1x Languish
Record: 1-1
Round Three: Black/White Control
I think Grixis is pretty highly favored in this matchup, as we're trying to do very similar things but we have more two-for-ones as well as counterspells. After sideboard, the level of discard we're able to bring (not just the spells, but that we will often have a 4/4 with Menace that comes along with them) makes it relatively trivial. Virulent Plague can help to answer the Secure the Wastes part of the deck, but isn't mandatory. Easy 2-0 win (felt kinda bad as it was the guy's birthday but I'm here to win!).
In: 2x Duress, 1x Read the Bones, 1x Virulent Plague, 1x Silumgar's Command, 2x Negate
Out: 3x Fiery Impulse, 1x Languish, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 1x Grasp of Darkness
Record: 2-1
Round Four: 4C Rites
Or what I thought was 4C Rites. He was actually three colors without the black, so no Zulaport Cutthroat or Catacomb Sifter (which I certainly wasn't complaining about). He also went a bit higher with Linvala, the Preserver and he told me after the match that he didn't own any copies of Reality Smasher (I find this card very hard to deal with as Grixis, it's very frustrating) so was playing stuff like Surrak, the Hunt Caller so I was definitely afforded a few percentage points in the match. With all that said, I did drop a game before winning 2-1. I couldn't find a sweeper in time and promptly died to the legion of small creatures. Unlike my earlier opponent, he was also able to cast multiple copies of Collected Company.
In: 2x Radiant Flames, 1x Transgress the Mind
Out: 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Languish, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited.
Record: 3-1
Standings are posted at this point and I'm sitting in fifth place so absolutely have to play my last match. Would have liked to be able to ID and get something to eat, but I'm feeling pretty confident.
At this point I should be locked for the Top 4 and indeed I was, but in exactly fourth place. I'm feeling pretty good about my chances as well, because two of the decks in Top 8 I know I can absolutely destroy: 4C Rites and URw Goggles. Unfortunately, however...
Semi-Finals: G/W Tokens
This may be hard to believe, but no one plays GW Tokens in my area. I had literally never played against the deck before this point, so I'm going to attribute some of the sub-optimal lines I took to lack of experience with the matchup. It was at this point that my decision not to play any copies of Ultimate Price led to my downfall; in the critical third game, I died to a Sylvan Advocate with only Grasp of Darkness in hand and well more than six lands in play for my opponent. The other two games were very one sided in one direction or another; game one I died very quickly to thopter tokens and an Archangel Avacyn, whereas in game two he wasn't able to recover from turn 3 Infinite Obliteration on Avacyn into Transgress + Negate into Dark-Dwellers + Infinite Obliteration on Sylvan Advocate. I think with more experience in this match I would have taken different lines and definitely sideboarded differently.
In: 3x Negate, 1x Virulent Plague, 2x Radiant Flames, 1x Transgress the Mind, 1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Out: 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Fiery Impulse, 1x Evolving Wilds
Final Record: 4-2 in matches, 10-5 in games.
Ultimately pleased with my performance, but obviously disappointed. Had I won the semi-finals I would have faced the Goggles deck which I think Grixis has a fantastic matchup against. It was clearly not meant to be, however! Next weekend I have another PPTQ, but this one's going to be Eternal Masters sealed!
Some closing thoughts:
I thought Pia and Kiran Nalaar would be great at pressuring the planeswalkers from GW Tokens. They were garbage.
What does everyone think of replacing the mainboard Dragonlord Silumgar with Pia and Kiran Nalaar? I feel Silumgar was good when Esper was big with planeswalkers and dragons but I never see those decks anymore and I never want to cast him and always want board him out game 2. After seeing LSV's list I run two P&K in the side and everytime they either decided the game or created enough blockers for me to live against humans decks till I could dig for answers. Late game is insane as well being able to swing for 4 damage alone and throw 2 thopters for 4 more damage is great, and that's not counting if you don't already have a GDD on the field.
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Roast might be a good shout. It also deals with Sylvan Advocates in the late game and I agree we're definitely soft to Reality Smasher, that was largely the card that killed me from BW Midrange after board. I really, really miss Disdainful Stroke. Upping the Ruinous Path count to at least 3 in the main 60 is probably correct as well.
My concern with this is that it takes up a lot of sideboard slots (five) that would probably be better served as a diversity of answers. I think 3x Fevered Visions is the number if you're going to play them, but I don't think realistically we can also spend another two slots on 2x Molten Vortex without severely limiting our options decks that aren't slow. If your local meta is mostly slow, durdly decks then this is 100% correct for you to do, but if you're attending a Grand Prix or even a PPTQ then I can't say the same.
EDIT: Also yay, page two!
Just a heads up but budget discussion is not allowed in the Proven forum. Thanks! -- Lugger
2 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Silumgar's Command
1 To The Slaughter
2 Radiant Flames
1 Rending Volley
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Virulent Plague
2 Dark Petition
Hard to sideboard when we don't know the decklist lol. It's hard to sideboard in general as you have to sideboard based on the cards you see.
Control: duress, transgress, possibly dark petition, silumgars command
Aggro: Radiant Flames
Midrange: infinite obliteration, transgress the mind, dark petition, silumgars command
How could we make this match better for us?
Standard: UBR Grixis Control
Modern: U Merfolk
Commander: UB Wydwen, the biting gale
For you, if you feel the need put in languish over radiant flames. However it will also kill most of your own creatures. Or even add another copy of radiant flames to the main deck. Virulent plague from the board helps and if that still isn't enough put a kozileks return in the sideboard.
We have plenty of sideboard options; Virulent Plague and Crumble to Dust are the obvious inclusions, as well as Negate. We can't be good pre-board against everything, that's what sideboards are for! So use those fifteen cards to shore up what you think your weaknesses are.
You lose to Gideon and friends beating down just as much if not more than the actual tokens I think, at least in my experience on the flip side. Sweepers are generally pretty poor against them -- Hangarback Walker survives them in some form no matter what the sweeper is, Avacyn dodges Radiant Flames and Advocate, if not hastily run out before land drop #6, dodges all of them in your colors; Gideon obviously can't ever be hit by them. Overloading on them is a great way to die to Gideon +1 with 2 copies of Kozilek's Return or whatever in your hand.
Virulent Plague is your best way of making the matchup better, and Negate isn't far behind. Plague is the exception to my comments on sweepers earlier, because it trades for all token-generation planeswalker activations, past present and future, which means that our planeswalkers are basically 1-for-1 threats now. (It also sometimes trades for actual cards -- like Secure the Wastes -- and it generates virtual card advantage by making Westvale Abbey and Hangarback Walker much worse.) Negate is really good because it cleanly trades 1-for-1 with our planeswalkers while netting mana. Duress also hits like 40% of the deck, and while it trades down on mana (1 for 0), you really want to be able to 1-for-1 our planeswalkers, even at a minor mana loss.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I appreciate the perspective on the matchup from the other side, so thanks for that. Do you feel like the threat of Virulent Plague forces you to keep in some number of Dromoka's Command after the first game, despite the card being fairly weak in the matchup otherwise? Unless I'm just seriously undervaluing it and it's actually one of your best cards.
My current list is as follows:
2x Dragonlord Silumgar
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
Instant (11)
3x Fiery Impulse
2x Grasp of Darkness
3x Kolaghan's Command
1x Silumgar's Command
2x Ultimate Price
Sorcery (8)
1x Radiant Flames
3x Read the Bones
2x Ruinous Path
2x Transgress the Mind
3x Evolving Wilds
4x Foreboding Ruins
1x Island
2x Mountain
2x Shivan Reef
3x Smoldering Marsh
2x Sunken Hollow
5x Swamp
4x Wandering Fumarole
3x Duress
1x Rending Volley
1x Transgress the Mind
2x Negate
1x Infinite Obliteration
3x Fevered Visions
2x Radiant Flames
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Dark Petition
Need to figure what to cut for Virulent Plague. Guess at least two are necessary, as I'm seeing Angelic Purge in some GW lists. I like Dark Petition versatility (also allows to have just one Infinite Obliteration), while Fevered Visions is great against control.
Should the cut be on Transgress the Mind?
Standard: UBR Grixis Control
Modern: U Merfolk
Commander: UB Wydwen, the biting gale
I leave it in against Kalitas + Virulent Plague decks. It does some little work in the deck in general (putting counters on Hangarback Walker is actually a big deal, it's easy to arrange a fight for a token to die for Avacyn to flip), and specifically against Grixis or Mardu shells that rely on Radiant Flames I actually really like the card. One of the things I like about GW Tokens at large is that it makes maximal use not only of Avacyn but of Dromoka's Command -- where in a lot of decks it's just counter+fight and maybe something good in some circumstances, we actually get more mileage out of it due to Avacyn and Hangarback Walker. While it's still not a spectacular card, I do leave it in and I don't feel bad about it -- knowing you're bringing in powerful enchantments to attack my deck makes me happier to see it as well, since I need to be able to trade as cleanly with Plague as possible.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
3x Evolving Wilds
4x Foreboding Ruins
2x Island
2x Mountain
2x Shivan Reef
3x Smoldering Marsh
3x Sunken Hollow
4x Swamp
3x Wandering Fumarole
Planeswalker (3)
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Ob Nixilis, Reignited
3x Fiery Impulse
2x Grasp of Darkness
3x Kolaghan's Command
2x Ultimate Price
Sorcery (9)
1x Languish
3x Read the Bones
3x Ruinous Path
2x Transgress the Mind
Creature (12)
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Dark Petition
3x Duress
2x Infinite Obliteration
3x Negate
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Radiant Flames
1x Silumgar's Command
1x Virulent Plague
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
WUBEsper ControlWUB
Dark Dwellers, Kalitas Kolaghan's command
All Three are great cards and played in modern ass well.
The Rise of Grixis and White-Black Contro
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Standard: UBR Grixis Control
Modern: U Merfolk
Commander: UB Wydwen, the biting gale
The only games I've ended fast are when I was able to stick another control opponent with a Narset emblem after casting her on the curve and again against a weird kitchen table brew that was built around Thing in the Ice that I hit with an Infinite Obliteration on turn 3 on round 2. Stripped out his primary win condition so he folded.
This deck appears to be significantly faster while still maintaining the control feel. I'm going to try a new FNM shop on Friday and hopefully I'll find some people to trade with to pick up the pieces I need.
WUBEsper ControlWUB
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
I have some questions about the deck. I've built this deck recently (because my jeskai brew has failed hard), and I can't seem to get it to work. Here's decklist for reference:
4 Smoldering marsh
1 Choked estuary
4 Sunken hollow
2 Wandering fumarole
2 Shivan reef
3 Evolving wilds
4 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Chandra, flamecaller
3 Kalitas, traitor of ghet
3 Goblin dark dwellers
4 Jace, Vryn's prodigy
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
3 Duress
2 Ultimate price
2 Grasp of darkness
2 Kolaghan's command
2 Ruinous Path
1 To the slaughter
2 Read the bones
3 Dark petition
1 Radiant Flames
1 Silumgar's Command
2 Transgress the mind
1 Infinite obliteration
3 Radiant flames
1 Kolaghan's command
1 Goblin dark dwellers
1 Ob nixilis reignited
2 Dispel
1 Read the bones
1 Pick the brain
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
Across 2 FNMs I lost to:
GR ramp
GB Seasons Past (ramp really, playing Ulamog, World breakers and ramp spells)
Bant Company
UW Eldrazi
UW Midrange Humans
BW Eldrazi
I won against:
GB Aristocrats
Mono-White Hmans
I stumbled on lands a lot, and sometimes removal didnt come on time. I could just say its a bad luck, but im inclined to think its about my deck building.
So I have few questions about the deck:
Is read the bones a must in grixis deck? Couldn't we swap it with few Anticipates and some card-drawing planeswaker for late game (Jace, unraveler of secrets, Ob nixilis reignited?
Is transgress the mind better maindeck discard than duress?
How many Dark Petitions cards? This is 1 card im sure deserves a spot, but I'm not sure if correct number is 2 or 3.
I made another decklist with Anticipates in it, feel free to comment, but thats just an idea, nothing I'm sold on:
3 Choked Estuary
3 Evolving Wilds
3 Foreboding Ruins
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Sunken Hollow
2 Swamp
2 Wandering Fumarole
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dark Petition
2 Duress
1 Radiant Flames
3 Ruinous Path
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
3 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Dispel
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Languish
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Pick the Brain
2 Radiant Flames
1 Silumgar's Command
1 To the Slaughter
2 Transgress the Mind
PS: Grixis rocks featured matches on SCG right now
Played in a small PPTQ yesterday, only 16 players so a relatively easy one to spike with only five rounds of swiss and a top 4 cut. I've been on Grixis for a while now, ever since Oliver Tiu started making waves with it at Pro Tour Shadows Over Innistrad. In the areas I play in, 4C Rites and Bant are really popular so I made the decision to run 4x Grasp of Darkness and 0x Ultimate Price and it worked really, really well... until it didn't.
The List
I think at this point the main 60 is relatively stock with very few flex slots; the only difference I tend to see is whether you're running Dark Petition in the main or the side. I tend to favor two copies in the main as it's just another copy of whatever spell you need but I can appreciate the other approach too. I see some variance between three and four copies of Goblin Dark-Dwellers as well and I have to say I think the full set is mandatory. Playing three or four copies of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is definitely down to personal preference and I tend to swing more towards three due to the legend rule. Having more than one in hand is pretty bad and having more than two is basically just a dead hand.
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
Sorcery (10)
2x Transgress the Mind
2x Read the Bones
3x Ruinous Path
2x Dark Petition
1x Languish
Instant (9)
3x Fiery Impulse
4x Grasp of Darkness
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
Land (26)
3x Evolving Wilds
4x Foreboding Ruins
1x Island
1x Mountain
3x Shivan Reef
4x Smoldering Marsh
2x Sunken Hollow
5x Swamp
3x Wandering Fumarole
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
1x Dragonmaster Outcast
2x Duress
1x Infinite Obliteration
3x Negate
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Radiant Flames
1x Read the Bones
1x Silumgar's Command
1x Transgress the Mind
1x Virulent Plague
The Event
One of my personal goals this season is to get better at taking notes during and after each match, so hopefully I can keep it up.
Round One: 4C Rites
This was not a particularly close match. My opponent had some very poor draws and I was able to Transgress the only copy of Collected Company he ever saw across the two games. I win 2-0. Off to a good start.
In: 2x Radiant Flames, 1x Transgress the Mind
Out: 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Languish, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Record: 1-0.
Round Two: Grixis Control
I find the mirror match to be very swingy. One player will be very far again and if they can capitalize on it, they'll snowball into a win. If they can't follow up their early advantage with anything, it's very easy for a couple of good draws for your opponent to swing it right back around on you. This is exactly what happened in games one and three; I had an early advantage but failed to convert it into sustained pressure and fell behind to better draws (runner, runner Read the Bones into Dark-Dwellers and Chandra). In the second game a turn three Infinite Obliteration took all of her Goblins and was eventually cast again to remove all of her Kalitas, resulting in a very quick victory. Unfortunate, but relatively close games and I don't think I could have done much differently. I lose 1-2.
In: 1x Read the Bones, 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Infinite Obliteration, 1x Transgress the Mind, 3x Negate
Out: 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 3x Fiery Impulse, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Grasp of Darkness, 1x Languish
Record: 1-1
Round Three: Black/White Control
I think Grixis is pretty highly favored in this matchup, as we're trying to do very similar things but we have more two-for-ones as well as counterspells. After sideboard, the level of discard we're able to bring (not just the spells, but that we will often have a 4/4 with Menace that comes along with them) makes it relatively trivial. Virulent Plague can help to answer the Secure the Wastes part of the deck, but isn't mandatory. Easy 2-0 win (felt kinda bad as it was the guy's birthday but I'm here to win!).
In: 2x Duress, 1x Read the Bones, 1x Virulent Plague, 1x Silumgar's Command, 2x Negate
Out: 3x Fiery Impulse, 1x Languish, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 1x Grasp of Darkness
Record: 2-1
Round Four: 4C Rites
Or what I thought was 4C Rites. He was actually three colors without the black, so no Zulaport Cutthroat or Catacomb Sifter (which I certainly wasn't complaining about). He also went a bit higher with Linvala, the Preserver and he told me after the match that he didn't own any copies of Reality Smasher (I find this card very hard to deal with as Grixis, it's very frustrating) so was playing stuff like Surrak, the Hunt Caller so I was definitely afforded a few percentage points in the match. With all that said, I did drop a game before winning 2-1. I couldn't find a sweeper in time and promptly died to the legion of small creatures. Unlike my earlier opponent, he was also able to cast multiple copies of Collected Company.
In: 2x Radiant Flames, 1x Transgress the Mind
Out: 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Languish, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited.
Record: 3-1
Standings are posted at this point and I'm sitting in fifth place so absolutely have to play my last match. Would have liked to be able to ID and get something to eat, but I'm feeling pretty confident.
Round Five: B/G Season's Past
I haven't really played against this deck much if at all, but I have to imagine it's a good matchup. I think he'd spiced his list up a little bit from stock versions, though, as he was playing Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as well as Tireless Tracker and Defiant Bloodlord. In the first game he'd used several copies of Ruinous Path by turn four and was unable to answer my Ob Nixilis before it could emblem. In both games I was able to shred his hand with Transgress the Mind and he never drew out of the hole I put him in. I win 2-0.
In: 1x Silumgar's Command, 1x Transgress the Mind, 2x Negate, 1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar, 1x Dragonmaster Outcast
Out: 3x Fiery Impulse, 2x Grasp of Darkness, 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Record 4-1
At this point I should be locked for the Top 4 and indeed I was, but in exactly fourth place. I'm feeling pretty good about my chances as well, because two of the decks in Top 8 I know I can absolutely destroy: 4C Rites and URw Goggles. Unfortunately, however...
Semi-Finals: G/W Tokens
This may be hard to believe, but no one plays GW Tokens in my area. I had literally never played against the deck before this point, so I'm going to attribute some of the sub-optimal lines I took to lack of experience with the matchup. It was at this point that my decision not to play any copies of Ultimate Price led to my downfall; in the critical third game, I died to a Sylvan Advocate with only Grasp of Darkness in hand and well more than six lands in play for my opponent. The other two games were very one sided in one direction or another; game one I died very quickly to thopter tokens and an Archangel Avacyn, whereas in game two he wasn't able to recover from turn 3 Infinite Obliteration on Avacyn into Transgress + Negate into Dark-Dwellers + Infinite Obliteration on Sylvan Advocate. I think with more experience in this match I would have taken different lines and definitely sideboarded differently.
In: 3x Negate, 1x Virulent Plague, 2x Radiant Flames, 1x Transgress the Mind, 1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Out: 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited, 1x Dragonlord Silumgar, 1x Fiery Impulse, 1x Evolving Wilds
Final Record: 4-2 in matches, 10-5 in games.
Ultimately pleased with my performance, but obviously disappointed. Had I won the semi-finals I would have faced the Goggles deck which I think Grixis has a fantastic matchup against. It was clearly not meant to be, however! Next weekend I have another PPTQ, but this one's going to be Eternal Masters sealed!
Some closing thoughts: