I suppose you could put it that way. The problem is, I don't kick long enough (kicking hard enough is not what the deck tries to accomplish :-)). I was perusing through old U/W "fish" decks and found a common theme. Reusable utility. For example, Waterfront Bouncer. The tempo disruption you could gain from his ability is key to the deck's success, and it just keeps on coming. Upon trying to find something similar for my U/B Aggro-Control, I found very little in our card pool. Any suggestions out there?
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Me thinks boomerang sucks bad. Specially its cc. And the effect. Kinda bleh
There really isnt any good replacement for Echoing Truth, so this will have to do. Besides, with all the color fixing, getting UU on turn 2 isnt that hard to do. If you are worried, run Terarrion.
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Quote from Someone on Volcanic Hammer »
3 damage for 2 mana; it’s like playing 8 Lightning Helixes, except 4 of them have AIDS.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
... but... you know. It still sucks. I'm not saying it doesn't ave it's uses. But you can also say that Concentrate doesn't suck for the same reason. What I'm saying is that it's pretty horrid compared to the other counters we get. Leak is a great early game counter to everything. Hinder makes the said card way hard to recover, Perplex is in the same spot as Leak, and Rewind is a good hard counter. Remove Soul just doesn't seem to hot when compared to these choices ^^.
EDIT- Oh, and you haven't given a GOOD reason why Boomerang sucks. I'm willing to debate it with you but if all you have is "its casting cost" then... no. Hinder has the same problem. Edict sucks with multiple creatures out. Grasp will be in there WITH Boomerang, I already discussed Remove Soul. So... yeah.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Lol I'd argue the points. However there isn't much to argue. Cruel Edict sucks against weenie decks because you'll never nail a creature worth it. Against control it doesn't matter much either. Mark allows them to swing or get some use ofut of it before it gets bounced. By the time you hit BOP and Koko you should already be at 10 life. Boomerang has the utility to bounce any permanent. Even just bouncing a land can give you some advantage. Along with the other disruption crads it fits in nicely.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Mixture tutors for Infiltrator, Usher tutors for Ink, Eyes...Signets and Aqueducts are good for many meshing (I know noone likes the Aqueduct, but it's been working for me). The Guildmage and Informant are good for a certain amount of control, and the Informant is KILLER if you can Tunnel Vision to their best card and then mill it. Hideous Laught and Last Grasp are good removal and Peel from Reality is good to bounce their creatures if you don't get any early.
I know there need to be changes, but I think it works for the U/B Control setting.
Anyway, been scanning through the decklists, seems to me no one runs hunted blue guy, and with all the laughter MD it would probably rock. Even hunted horror is viable with Threads MD. Just thoughts though :tongue2:
I've only tested against different builds of WW and suprisingly I only win when I get a Dark Confidant online. It's an underrated card for sure, and when you draw a Consume Spirit it gets heaps better. Basically the strategy is to get a Dimir Cutpurse out, and kill everything in its way.
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im just wondering why i keep seeing 4 of both watery grave and underground river??
against aggro you will be raped. you lose way too much life to these cards.
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
In over 10 games I've played 4 River and 4 W Grave I've only ever lost life to the Rivers. Because UB kinda doesn't have any 1 drops, its such a good first turn play, other than that I seemingly always had other land to play if I needed the mana.
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So... it's no problem that you're getting raped by a Koko atack each turn simply because you have critters out? Mark is bad BECAUSE it lets them get a swing in before it takes effect. I'd rather keep a one shot deal that does it when I want it too than to get damaged but minorly disrupt their tempo.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
It has been rumoured that MUC will once again raise its ugly head post ravnica. Muc was a great contender in the 2004 - 2005 meta, and it even did great in kamigawa block constructed.
Ravnica has given us a few decent toys to play with (Telling time), and with a decent counter base available and lots of possible splashes MUC will stick around in the kami - Rav metagame.
did you make this official? cause your not suppose to... anyway here is my build i have tested it, its pretty good, consdering there arent going to be too many wennies running around that can drop multiple stuff per turn.
Isn't this still to slow for the current meta? I really see you guys having trouble with weenies but maybe not with meloku and evacuation you just have no acel which even 2004-2005 MUC had in the form of Chrome MOx and at the very leats wayfayers bauble. You are also going to have a very hard game vs rock that is running grave-shell scarab. But other than that this deck should work. the only thing i can think of is the cinglet just playing no black.
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Quote from mastab3690 »
yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
I'd suggest running Remand. It is great tempo and really helps ease the problem of early threats when you don't have mana leak. You just send it back to their hand and lay and extra land so you can use a hinder/convolute the second time around. It cantrips so it isn't card disadvantage. It helps slow down aggro. It increases your odds of being able to stop a turn 2 Jitte. And it is even helpful late game in making your normally dead Mana Leaks useful because they'll work when your opponent tries to recast.
A problem with MUC post rotation is that it lacks board control. Once a threat hits your only hope is to bounce and counter and even a couple of Suntail Hawks can give you trouble. Evacuations will be necessary as will an increase in Melokus as they are your only real way to tie up aggro. I'd go with:
Muc lost a lot of power due to the loss of shackles and its man squeeze, stalking stones. Whats needed is a creature that can be played as an instant and another that can deal with mulitiplule creautres.
So far in the replacements- temporal adept for shackles remand for a weak replacement for condesend
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
... so it's one or the other? You fail to understand what I'm saying. Ahem... IN THIS DECK BOOMERANG IS SUPERIOR TO MARK. I never said it's better than grasp, perplex, etc. But it IS better than mark. We want the threat bounced NOW. Not during our next upkeep. Oh, results. I won't post my deck cus it's too janky and shattered right now.
WWE 2-1
Not much to say here. Got rolled game one. Game two laughtered, Circu, leak nailing anthem, scoop. Game three, laughterd, laughtered, NoSB, scoop.
BG Rock 2-1
Scarab sucks... a lot. It takes to much to kill it. Game one he had not one but two scarabs in his starting hand. Bad times ensued from there.
Game two I get a turn three Circu out (letting an Elder through to do so). At this point I'd like to explain that my friend has mad topdecking skills... literally. However, not this time. He draws, land, go. I draw, play an apprentice, remove a putrefy, say go. He draws, tries to play Koko. I mana leak, nail Rend Flesh, and ask if he's done. I draw, play Shortfang, nail Scarab. He scoops. ^^ Lovely win indeed.
Game three was instense. Creatures weren't on the field very long as Grasp comes through and two of them nail his Koko. We hit a stall for awhile then I draw Apprentice. He stalls while I draw through and eventually play Yukora with plenty of counter backup. I commence to counter all of his threats and win.
So... yeah. The scarab sucks... alot. The only thing you can really do is Hinder it and h ope they don't top deck another one anytime soon.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
Anyone else have trouble against B/G when the game goes long. They seem to have more threats and eventually just topdeck stuff. I need some good advice for card drawers. Telling Time is great, but it doesn't actually draw cards, just filters through for you. I'm scared of running jushi since he can easily get smoked, but all the other draw options kind of suck. Also, are you running felwar stone Verashiden? Just wondering how you were accelerating.
On a somewhat related note, in my 2 boxes I got 2 U/B duals, I think it's a sign as to what I must play for states.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Yeah, I'm running the stone. If you have counter back up then go ahead and run apprentice. Eating up their resources + keeping apprentice alive until you drop your game over card = happiness. I'm also have trouble with the BG matchup (probably our worse match up). I'm experimenting so I'll check back and see how things work out.
Oh, and there seems to be a deck "rising" that is spectulated as being top tier. Looking at the lists I think we can roll it over. However, I've never played the deck nor know what it does. It's that Fungus Fire deck. Anyone care to explain exactly what it does and if you think we should worry about it?
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
I suppose you could put it that way. The problem is, I don't kick long enough (kicking hard enough is not what the deck tries to accomplish :-)). I was perusing through old U/W "fish" decks and found a common theme. Reusable utility. For example, Waterfront Bouncer. The tempo disruption you could gain from his ability is key to the deck's success, and it just keeps on coming. Upon trying to find something similar for my U/B Aggro-Control, I found very little in our card pool. Any suggestions out there?
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
My Brute, free Arena game
Standard-
UR Fish
Extended-
GWR Slide
There really isnt any good replacement for Echoing Truth, so this will have to do. Besides, with all the color fixing, getting UU on turn 2 isnt that hard to do. If you are worried, run Terarrion.
Great googlie mooglie!!!! Don't tell everyone. I like it that people think it sucks hard.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
EDIT- Oh, and you haven't given a GOOD reason why Boomerang sucks. I'm willing to debate it with you but if all you have is "its casting cost" then... no. Hinder has the same problem. Edict sucks with multiple creatures out. Grasp will be in there WITH Boomerang, I already discussed Remove Soul. So... yeah.
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4 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Szadek, Lord of Secrets
3 Lurking Informant
2 Dimir Guildmage
3 Ethereal Usher
4 Muddle the Mixture
3 Peel From Reality
4 Dimir Signet
3 Hidous Laughter
4 Last Grasp
2 Tunnel Vision
4 Watery Grave
4 Dimir Aqueduct
10 Island
6 Swamp
Mixture tutors for Infiltrator, Usher tutors for Ink, Eyes...Signets and Aqueducts are good for many meshing (I know noone likes the Aqueduct, but it's been working for me). The Guildmage and Informant are good for a certain amount of control, and the Informant is KILLER if you can Tunnel Vision to their best card and then mill it. Hideous Laught and Last Grasp are good removal and Peel from Reality is good to bounce their creatures if you don't get any early.
I know there need to be changes, but I think it works for the U/B Control setting.
Anyway, been scanning through the decklists, seems to me no one runs hunted blue guy, and with all the laughter MD it would probably rock. Even hunted horror is viable with Threads MD. Just thoughts though :tongue2:
4 Watery Grave
4 Underground River
2 Island
13 Swamp
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dimir Cutpurse
4 Moroii
4 Cruel Edict
4 Disembowel
4 Last Gasp
3 Consume Spirit
4 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
I've only tested against different builds of WW and suprisingly I only win when I get a Dark Confidant online. It's an underrated card for sure, and when you draw a Consume Spirit it gets heaps better. Basically the strategy is to get a Dimir Cutpurse out, and kill everything in its way.
against aggro you will be raped. you lose way too much life to these cards.
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
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Ravnica has given us a few decent toys to play with (Telling time), and with a decent counter base available and lots of possible splashes MUC will stick around in the kami - Rav metagame.
Here are a list of playable cards available.
Counters Available
Good Critters
Other toys
Thats all the relevent stuff that i can think of at the moment. Im sure there is a competative deck in there some where.
Lets get this MUC ball rolling.
"Official"ed by ButteBlues18
4 quicksand
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 minamo, school at waters edge
19 islands
creatures 8
2 azami, lady of scrolls
4 jushi apprentice
2 meloku the clouded mirror
4 mana leak
3 muddle the mixture
3 rewind
4 hinder
4 telling time
3 plague boiler
2 evacuation
4 boomerang
2 keiga the tide star
1 overwhelming intellect
4 shadow of doupt
2 evacuation
4 kaijin of vanishing touch
Please insert signature here
A problem with MUC post rotation is that it lacks board control. Once a threat hits your only hope is to bounce and counter and even a couple of Suntail Hawks can give you trouble. Evacuations will be necessary as will an increase in Melokus as they are your only real way to tie up aggro. I'd go with:
1 Minamo
1 Oboro
4 Quicksand
3 Meloku
3 Plague Boiler
2 Evacuation
3 Boomerang
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
4 Rewind
4 Remand
3CB and 4CB5CB!So far in the replacements- temporal adept for shackles
remand for a weak replacement for condesend
can anyone think of anything else>?
Thanks for the awesome sig Topher!
My Trades
MOTL
Perplex owns. Any doubts I had about this card vanished because it's more times than not a hard counter since they normally have 4+ cards in hand.
Fellwar stone isn't terrible. It isn't bauble, but it isn't terrible. I haven't had any problems with it.
Circu is nuts. Play him, play normally, watch them scoop.
Grave-Shell Scarab is a pain in the ass. I burnt to counters and a bounce on ONE before I managed to hinder it to the bottom.
On that note. Perplex + Hinder = <3
That's all I have at the moment. I'm going to do some heavy testing this week so I'll actually post play by plays then.
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WWE 2-1
Not much to say here. Got rolled game one. Game two laughtered, Circu, leak nailing anthem, scoop. Game three, laughterd, laughtered, NoSB, scoop.
BG Rock 2-1
Scarab sucks... a lot. It takes to much to kill it. Game one he had not one but two scarabs in his starting hand. Bad times ensued from there.
Game two I get a turn three Circu out (letting an Elder through to do so). At this point I'd like to explain that my friend has mad topdecking skills... literally. However, not this time. He draws, land, go. I draw, play an apprentice, remove a putrefy, say go. He draws, tries to play Koko. I mana leak, nail Rend Flesh, and ask if he's done. I draw, play Shortfang, nail Scarab. He scoops. ^^ Lovely win indeed.
Game three was instense. Creatures weren't on the field very long as Grasp comes through and two of them nail his Koko. We hit a stall for awhile then I draw Apprentice. He stalls while I draw through and eventually play Yukora with plenty of counter backup. I commence to counter all of his threats and win.
So... yeah. The scarab sucks... alot. The only thing you can really do is Hinder it and h ope they don't top deck another one anytime soon.
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MEGAMATT
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On a somewhat related note, in my 2 boxes I got 2 U/B duals, I think it's a sign as to what I must play for states.
Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. "God**** it Otto, you are an alcoholic." "God**** it Otto, you have Lupus" ... one of those two doesn't sound right.
Oh, and there seems to be a deck "rising" that is spectulated as being top tier. Looking at the lists I think we can roll it over. However, I've never played the deck nor know what it does. It's that Fungus Fire deck. Anyone care to explain exactly what it does and if you think we should worry about it?
My Brute, free Arena game
Standard-
UR Fish
Extended-
GWR Slide