This, like what, every first week standard before it, is an aggro deck that is doing quite well. While Bant Company is the most boring deck on the planet(not counting eggs)IMO, at least the white aggro decks are fun to watch.
All said, I am a Rakdos mage so languish and flaying tendrils are going to be in every deck that runs black while bigger white decks will likely be running tragic arrogance.
My ideal standard environment would be a really good deck in each mono color. Not sure if that's ever happened but I guess 2 color decks are pretty cool too. I'm also calling for it right now....reprint Rakdos's Return. Call it Olivia's return(r/b).
Anyway,enough babbling for now. Humans...enjoy your time in the sun.
This, like what, every first week standard before it, is an aggro deck that is doing quite well. While Bant Company is the most boring deck on the planet(not counting eggs)IMO, at least the white aggro decks are fun to watch.
All said, I am a Rakdos mage so languish and flaying tendrils are going to be in every deck that runs black while bigger white decks will likely be running tragic arrogance.
My ideal standard environment would be a really good deck in each mono color. Not sure if that's ever happened but I guess 2 color decks are pretty cool too. I'm also calling for it right now....reprint Rakdos's Return. Call it Olivia's return(r/b).
Anyway,enough babbling for now. Humans...enjoy your time in the sun.
I feel like humans are here to stay honestly. The cool thing about playing base-white humans is that there are several "right" ways to build the deck right now...there's an inherent flexibility with creatures that synergize well, plus really effective removal, and (at least) two really effective potential splash colors. I feel like this shell will be able to adjust well to the shifting meta game.
Hell of a open. Brad Nelson and the scg writers etc are all pretentious buttholes I've learned. W U Ojutai Always Watching and WG human clue tracker are the big players.
Now that Rally is gone, the ground game opens up more and I would not be surprised to see the humans evolve into an ally theme deck. W/B Allies is a very explosive deck with each new ally triggering it's own and all the previous ally triggers. Personally not my fav deck but at least for a while, it may be good. It is also resistant to sweepers with march from the tomb.
The problem with warping wail is Humans want to be aggressive. They can't take a turn off to leave wail mana up just incase the opp has sweeper mana up. Like all creature aggro decks before it, it will have to just slog thru sweepers. I could see a W/G human deck running collected company keep warping wail mana up though.
Dromoka's command is a good card to have as it can play offense and defense. It can also get rid of opposing white decks enchantments like silk wrap, stasis snare, and black's dead weight.
Unless ramp is running Chandra, optimally by turn six (if they hit all their land drops) our board should be durable enough to survive a Chandra sweep, if not, then we were probably fighting a losing battle anyway.
I definitely think blue is where you want to be to combat sweepers. With Negate, Dispel, Invasive Surgery, and Eerie Interlude (which could be in green too), there are a lot of decent options.
Outside fringe Radiant Flames play, most sweepers cost four, and the decks that run them you can typically go 1 drop, 2 drop, 1 drop hold negate mana on the draw, or 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, turn 4 hold Negate. Dispel/Invasive Surgery aren't so good, but I can see why you would want that type of effect. Take Kozilek's Return for example:
1 drop, Thalia's Lieutenant, and then if they KR here and your one drop is Thraben Inspector, then they paid 3 to kill Lieutenant. If it's a 2 drop not Lieutenant, then they got two guys, but you can now untap play another two drop and have negate mana open. Either way, a 2 for 1 KR isn't great in the decks that are using it to combat this deck.
This is the list I'm playing, which probably helps contextually:
The worst card in the 75 is the Cleric of the Forward Order, and I'll probably cut it if Red doesn't show up in some fashion. I originally was running them for the BR Vampire Match-up, but it's so easy I would rather have something else in that slot. I'm definitely putting the fourth Negate in the board, and probably going to see if I can fit an extra Essence Flux in the board. Then I have one open slot, which I haven't figured out what I'm going to put in there yet, but the board will probably change after this weekend.
I went 4-0 at FNM and then played a win-a-box and went 3-0. It was easy, but I will say there was typically more brew then refined decks.
Round 1: BW Control 2-1
Round 2: BG Token/Rites 2-0
-This is the other deck I've been testing since I saw Tom Ross play it earlier in the week. I lent it to a friend who only lost to me.
Round 3: Mono W Humans 2-1
-Reflector Mage + Flux = pure value here.
Round 4: BW Midrange 2-0
Win-a-box
Round 1: BW Midrange 2-0
Round 2: Bant Collected Company 2-1
-I won game 1, and in game three I drew two negates and the Hallowed Moonlight on a critical turn.
Round 3: Jund Walkers 2-0
The deck played awesome, and my biggest qualm has been getting stuck on three lands. I'm considering going up to a 24th land, probably a Plains, however I'm not entirely sure if that is the correct call.
++Town Gossipmonger: Before trying him out I thought he was too slow in a deck that needs to be aggressive but I was wrong. It has been more rewarding flipping him on Turn 2 than being unable to efficiently attack with a 1 drop because I'm facing a 2/3 - damn you Sylvan Advocate - or an icey wall - I hate you Thing in the Ice. As crazy as it sounds, flipping him has totally been worth the sacrifice of a turn. He becomes a beefy human with a built-in mana sink which is superb in the same way Thraben is (value). His biggest downside is when he gets bounced to my hand.
I have to agree, after playing with Gossipmonger, I found him better than he looks. Beside situations that you described, sometimes you don't even need to skip his attack - with Always Watching online, you can declare your attackers, and then tap and flip. Good stuff!
I was referring to flipping him Turn 2 but you're right, that situation does come up too and it feelsgood.jpeg. Another best case scenario is when you're attacking on Turn 3 with Kytheon alongside Gossipmonger to activate Gideon; +1 the Gossipmonger with Gideon to untap him and you can still flip him that turn by spending you're 3 mana to cast a creature - assuming you didn't have to use it for Kytheon's indestructibility.
Speaking of Kytheon, I did notice his price increase too. I think people foresee how it's just broken in our deck in the same way Jace is broken in a instant/sorcery heavy deck. When I am able to flip him on Turn 3, it often means I've won. His +2 works similar to creature removal in that I force whatever I want to get rid of to attack into my big creatures - granted I've used this mode the least as it's more control than aggro. His +1 rewards being aggro by always having an indestructible blocker ready to block whatever is aiming his way and it's rather excellent against board wipes which has been my favorite application. His +0 is back-breaking on Turn 4-5 as there's really nothing a 4/4 can't go through so early in the game and if need be you can pump him up with Thalia's Lieutenant (which hilariously enough has won me a few games) and Always Watching.
A lot of discussion on Consul's. I've found that in games that let you goldfish, he's an absolute star. Very rarely did I manage to take full advantage of his 'lord' ability and when it did, it was spectacular. More often than not though, he was getting killed left and right and it became a huge loss on tempo. He felt more like an expensive Savannah Lion that offered no immediate impact other than first strike. At least with Savannah Lions, their low cost help me bring out an abundance to maximize Kytheon, Anafenza, Thalia's LT, and Always Watching. Just my 2 cents anyways.
Has anyone else tried Naya-colors yet? Figuring out the mana is tough (I'm running 24 lands)but it has some merit - this deck loves Atarka's Command. Otherwise, we trade in the WW two drops, for Pacifists, Geier-Reach Bandit and Breakneck Rider all of which do serious work.
2 colors is already kind of tricky as sometimes we have no choice to bring out tapped lands so early in the game and it's not a good thing for a deck that wants to be aggro. As amazing as Atarka's Command is for our deck, I don't think it's viable to go 3 colors because it would make the mana base clunky and slow.
The worst card in the 75 is the Cleric of the Forward Order, and I'll probably cut it if Red doesn't show up in some fashion. I originally was running them for the BR Vampire Match-up, but it's so easy I would rather have something else in that slot. I'm definitely putting the fourth Negate in the board, and probably going to see if I can fit an extra Essence Flux in the board. Then I have one open slot, which I haven't figured out what I'm going to put in there yet, but the board will probably change after this weekend.
The deck played awesome, and my biggest qualm has been getting stuck on three lands. I'm considering going up to a 24th land, probably a Plains, however I'm not entirely sure if that is the correct call.
In my experience against RDW and BR Vampire/Madness, I would always put more pressure on them than they put on me. I would go as far as to say it's a 70-30 match up for us which doesn't really merit a dedicated sideboard slot. Instead I use Ojutai's Command for the recursion and any of the other 3 modes.
Essence Flux is an interesting choice to battle against spot removal while also able to be aggressive at the same time. I think I'll definitely try it out since double Reflector Mage or Thalia's Lieutenant triggers are too juicy to pass up. I don't know if it'll make the cut because it's doesn't answer sweepers, but from my experience single target removal can be just as backbreaking at times.
It may be a local metagame thing, but I think you have to look at Hallowed moonlight in the side if bant company sticks around i mean there is negate and potentially dispel but coco is just too good
It may be a local metagame thing, but I think you have to look at Hallowed moonlight in the side if bant company sticks around i mean there is negate and potentially dispel but coco is just too good
Counterspells sure looks better, but if you play mono-W or W/g - Moonlights are definitely a must.
i think w/u may want both especially if U/b reanimator ever works out.
I do feel like hallowed is easier to cast most of the time
It looks like WU is probably the "best" right now based on pure representation, but I feel that the differences aren't too great between the versions (though I do think that the splash G or U versions are probably a bit more solid).
It looks like WU is probably the "best" right now based on pure representation, but I feel that the differences aren't too great between the versions (though I do think that the splash G or U versions are probably a bit more solid).
I agree. The one thing I saw consistently though, Tragic Arrogance is a stone cold killer against us, potentially even more devastating than a board wipe because it can take out Always Watching, Stasis Snare, etc. Blue is best equipped to deal with those shenanigans.
Ok, so trends I noticed from coverage/decklists today:
1) Wu Humans is probably the best version.
The best cards against us (Tragic Arrogance, Languish, Collected Company, etc.) aren't easy to play around if you don't have counter-magic available, meaning blue is more effective as a splash. The one notable exception would be Radiant Flames, which could be essentially countered by Dromoka's Command.
2) 3 Always Watching seems to be the accepted number.
I know many of us, myself included, had 4 listed in the decks we posted. The top Wx Humans decks this weekend seemed to only have 3, even the Monowhite Blitz version in the finals. I only saw one time on coverage where multiples were on the field and it didn't make much difference when the opponent cast Tragic Arrogance.
3) Consul's Lieutenant might just be bad.
Seems like most of the successful decks shaved one or more of these guys from the list. I saw one person attack with a renowned Lieutenant and, while it was sweet, it was more consistently the target of removal. The first strike is definitely important, but I'm thinking of going to 3, maybe even 2, in exchange for more one drops.
4) Expedition Envoy is better (right now) than Dragon Hunter because of Lantern Scout.
There were only two Esper Dragons decks (and one Esper Demonic Pact) in the top 64. If you're going to go the blitz route, then it's the more Savannah Lions the better, but the splash versions are probably better served with Envoy plus Lantern Scout out of the board in the mirror or other aggressive matchups.
5) Eerie Interlude and Hallowed Moonlight might be universal sideboard tech.
Our decks struggled against Company, sweepers, and Eldrazi Displacer (more on that guy in a sec). Whilst Interlude and Moonlight won't necessarily eliminate the impact of those cards, they seem to represent some potentially powerful, yet largely unexplored territory. I saw Interlude in some sideboards, but I never saw it cast on camera while I was watching. Hallowed Moonlight could completely shut off Company decks if mana is left up. Both of those could be potentially backbreaking in our weaker matchups.
6) Eldrazi Displacer demands immediate attention.
That card seems bonkers against us, especially in situations where our midrange opponents can blink two creatures per combat. If we're not attacking, we're losing for the most part, and that one card could potentially disrupt EVERY combat phase we have until it's dealt with. Public enemy #1 as far as I'm concerned.
7) Wx Humans is legit.
Definitely happy with the results this weekend, they give more credence to our decision to build this deck!
UW midrange that goes up to Ojutai and Avacyn which stars always watching
GW aggro with Coco for reach
Wu aggro with 16+ 1 drops and reflector mage
W aggro with 16+ 1 drops
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
After smoking at the Open results, I ended on WG version with Collected Company. Despite the fact, that it wasn't presented this weekend at all, I still think, that this is the best option available to us.
CoCo is the best way to rebuild after mass removal - archetype is now on everybody's radar, people will pack more sweepers (including Tragic Arrogance, yes)
the fact that CoCo version is still "a sleeper" - will work as a surprise factor
Tireless Tracker gained a lot of love today, we definitely should use him
Clip Wings turned to be an awesome sideboard trick (removes Avacyn, Ojutai, Abbey)
WU just doesn't feel right to me... sure, blue spells are great, but I don't like stretching curve from 1 to 5 (Avacyn or Ojutai) and Reflector Mage is less good without CoCo
The only problem I see with this is that if you want to run Company you're compromising its effectiveness by NOT running creatures like Sylvan Advocate and Bounding Krasis. Both of those cards did serious work for Jim Davis in Baltimore. Switching out those for one drops to preserve the human theme just doesn't seem worth it.
You're right about one thing though...Tireless Tracker got lots of love this weekend. He's up to $8 mid-price on TCG from $2 prior to the tournament!
After watching the tournamnet this weekend I thing the mono-white player was on to something. While I think he went monowhite to take advantage of poorly tuned manabases, and it payed off, I think W/u is still the best deck for exactly the reasons he lost in the finals. What I did notice though is that he was running Gryff's Boon over Archangel of Tithes. This was an excelent choice considering 1) it provides an excellence buffer against Dromoka's Command. 2) ever green deck was already running clipped wings in their sideboard to deal with Westvale Abbey, making 4-5 mana fliers a liability. This is probably why he opted for Gideon over other high impact sb cards. I assume Pastore's sb plan against the WB decks is to bring in Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Secure the Wastes, and Westvale Abbey, for kytheon, watching, and some other combinations of cards. While I really don't like Hanweir Militia Captain in a lot of his matchups it seems like it is a perfect card for this sort of sb plan. I am a huge proponent of the Westvale Abbey to bring in with high end threats. I have that exact same setup in my sb.
In other news while I haven't been completely converted to negates in the sb I am at 2x negates and 3x eerie interlude. I made the switch after ceciding that I needed more sb cards for fighting collected company and dromoka's command. A lot of the time my plan is to just slam threats and take control of the game but that strategy doesn't work that well on the draw vs bant co co.
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All said, I am a Rakdos mage so languish and flaying tendrils are going to be in every deck that runs black while bigger white decks will likely be running tragic arrogance.
My ideal standard environment would be a really good deck in each mono color. Not sure if that's ever happened but I guess 2 color decks are pretty cool too. I'm also calling for it right now....reprint Rakdos's Return. Call it Olivia's return(r/b).
Anyway,enough babbling for now. Humans...enjoy your time in the sun.
I feel like humans are here to stay honestly. The cool thing about playing base-white humans is that there are several "right" ways to build the deck right now...there's an inherent flexibility with creatures that synergize well, plus really effective removal, and (at least) two really effective potential splash colors. I feel like this shell will be able to adjust well to the shifting meta game.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
The problem with warping wail is Humans want to be aggressive. They can't take a turn off to leave wail mana up just incase the opp has sweeper mana up. Like all creature aggro decks before it, it will have to just slog thru sweepers. I could see a W/G human deck running collected company keep warping wail mana up though.
Dromoka's command is a good card to have as it can play offense and defense. It can also get rid of opposing white decks enchantments like silk wrap, stasis snare, and black's dead weight.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
I own 3 and may complete the playset depending on what the decklists from SCG Baltimore look like.
1 drop, Thalia's Lieutenant, and then if they KR here and your one drop is Thraben Inspector, then they paid 3 to kill Lieutenant. If it's a 2 drop not Lieutenant, then they got two guys, but you can now untap play another two drop and have negate mana open. Either way, a 2 for 1 KR isn't great in the decks that are using it to combat this deck.
This is the list I'm playing, which probably helps contextually:
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Hanweir Militia Captain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Reflector Mage
3 Archangel of Tithes
4 Declaration in Stone
3 Negate
3 Essence Flux
2 Ojutai's Command
2 Always Watching
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
1 Meandering River
2 Island
10 Plains
1 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Invasive Surgery
3 Cleric of the Forward Order
1 Ojutai's Command
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Stasis Snare
3 Felidar Cub
1 Eerie Interlude
The worst card in the 75 is the Cleric of the Forward Order, and I'll probably cut it if Red doesn't show up in some fashion. I originally was running them for the BR Vampire Match-up, but it's so easy I would rather have something else in that slot. I'm definitely putting the fourth Negate in the board, and probably going to see if I can fit an extra Essence Flux in the board. Then I have one open slot, which I haven't figured out what I'm going to put in there yet, but the board will probably change after this weekend.
I went 4-0 at FNM and then played a win-a-box and went 3-0. It was easy, but I will say there was typically more brew then refined decks.
Round 1: BW Control 2-1
Round 2: BG Token/Rites 2-0
-This is the other deck I've been testing since I saw Tom Ross play it earlier in the week. I lent it to a friend who only lost to me.
Round 3: Mono W Humans 2-1
-Reflector Mage + Flux = pure value here.
Round 4: BW Midrange 2-0
Win-a-box
Round 1: BW Midrange 2-0
Round 2: Bant Collected Company 2-1
-I won game 1, and in game three I drew two negates and the Hallowed Moonlight on a critical turn.
Round 3: Jund Walkers 2-0
The deck played awesome, and my biggest qualm has been getting stuck on three lands. I'm considering going up to a 24th land, probably a Plains, however I'm not entirely sure if that is the correct call.
I was referring to flipping him Turn 2 but you're right, that situation does come up too and it feelsgood.jpeg. Another best case scenario is when you're attacking on Turn 3 with Kytheon alongside Gossipmonger to activate Gideon; +1 the Gossipmonger with Gideon to untap him and you can still flip him that turn by spending you're 3 mana to cast a creature - assuming you didn't have to use it for Kytheon's indestructibility.
Speaking of Kytheon, I did notice his price increase too. I think people foresee how it's just broken in our deck in the same way Jace is broken in a instant/sorcery heavy deck. When I am able to flip him on Turn 3, it often means I've won. His +2 works similar to creature removal in that I force whatever I want to get rid of to attack into my big creatures - granted I've used this mode the least as it's more control than aggro. His +1 rewards being aggro by always having an indestructible blocker ready to block whatever is aiming his way and it's rather excellent against board wipes which has been my favorite application. His +0 is back-breaking on Turn 4-5 as there's really nothing a 4/4 can't go through so early in the game and if need be you can pump him up with Thalia's Lieutenant (which hilariously enough has won me a few games) and Always Watching.
A lot of discussion on Consul's. I've found that in games that let you goldfish, he's an absolute star. Very rarely did I manage to take full advantage of his 'lord' ability and when it did, it was spectacular. More often than not though, he was getting killed left and right and it became a huge loss on tempo. He felt more like an expensive Savannah Lion that offered no immediate impact other than first strike. At least with Savannah Lions, their low cost help me bring out an abundance to maximize Kytheon, Anafenza, Thalia's LT, and Always Watching. Just my 2 cents anyways.
Thanks for reading!
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
2 colors is already kind of tricky as sometimes we have no choice to bring out tapped lands so early in the game and it's not a good thing for a deck that wants to be aggro. As amazing as Atarka's Command is for our deck, I don't think it's viable to go 3 colors because it would make the mana base clunky and slow.
In my experience against RDW and BR Vampire/Madness, I would always put more pressure on them than they put on me. I would go as far as to say it's a 70-30 match up for us which doesn't really merit a dedicated sideboard slot. Instead I use Ojutai's Command for the recursion and any of the other 3 modes.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
Hell yeah, two white-blue, one white-green, and one monowhite.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Lol good point...and it's moving on to the finals!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
And holy ***** did we kill it today.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
i think w/u may want both especially if U/b reanimator ever works out.
I do feel like hallowed is easier to cast most of the time
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I agree. The one thing I saw consistently though, Tragic Arrogance is a stone cold killer against us, potentially even more devastating than a board wipe because it can take out Always Watching, Stasis Snare, etc. Blue is best equipped to deal with those shenanigans.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
1) Wu Humans is probably the best version.
The best cards against us (Tragic Arrogance, Languish, Collected Company, etc.) aren't easy to play around if you don't have counter-magic available, meaning blue is more effective as a splash. The one notable exception would be Radiant Flames, which could be essentially countered by Dromoka's Command.
2) 3 Always Watching seems to be the accepted number.
I know many of us, myself included, had 4 listed in the decks we posted. The top Wx Humans decks this weekend seemed to only have 3, even the Monowhite Blitz version in the finals. I only saw one time on coverage where multiples were on the field and it didn't make much difference when the opponent cast Tragic Arrogance.
3) Consul's Lieutenant might just be bad.
Seems like most of the successful decks shaved one or more of these guys from the list. I saw one person attack with a renowned Lieutenant and, while it was sweet, it was more consistently the target of removal. The first strike is definitely important, but I'm thinking of going to 3, maybe even 2, in exchange for more one drops.
4) Expedition Envoy is better (right now) than Dragon Hunter because of Lantern Scout.
There were only two Esper Dragons decks (and one Esper Demonic Pact) in the top 64. If you're going to go the blitz route, then it's the more Savannah Lions the better, but the splash versions are probably better served with Envoy plus Lantern Scout out of the board in the mirror or other aggressive matchups.
5) Eerie Interlude and Hallowed Moonlight might be universal sideboard tech.
Our decks struggled against Company, sweepers, and Eldrazi Displacer (more on that guy in a sec). Whilst Interlude and Moonlight won't necessarily eliminate the impact of those cards, they seem to represent some potentially powerful, yet largely unexplored territory. I saw Interlude in some sideboards, but I never saw it cast on camera while I was watching. Hallowed Moonlight could completely shut off Company decks if mana is left up. Both of those could be potentially backbreaking in our weaker matchups.
6) Eldrazi Displacer demands immediate attention.
That card seems bonkers against us, especially in situations where our midrange opponents can blink two creatures per combat. If we're not attacking, we're losing for the most part, and that one card could potentially disrupt EVERY combat phase we have until it's dealt with. Public enemy #1 as far as I'm concerned.
7) Wx Humans is legit.
Definitely happy with the results this weekend, they give more credence to our decision to build this deck!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
UW midrange that goes up to Ojutai and Avacyn which stars always watching
GW aggro with Coco for reach
Wu aggro with 16+ 1 drops and reflector mage
W aggro with 16+ 1 drops
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
The only problem I see with this is that if you want to run Company you're compromising its effectiveness by NOT running creatures like Sylvan Advocate and Bounding Krasis. Both of those cards did serious work for Jim Davis in Baltimore. Switching out those for one drops to preserve the human theme just doesn't seem worth it.
You're right about one thing though...Tireless Tracker got lots of love this weekend. He's up to $8 mid-price on TCG from $2 prior to the tournament!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
In other news while I haven't been completely converted to negates in the sb I am at 2x negates and 3x eerie interlude. I made the switch after ceciding that I needed more sb cards for fighting collected company and dromoka's command. A lot of the time my plan is to just slam threats and take control of the game but that strategy doesn't work that well on the draw vs bant co co.