Sure, it can let you play an early 6 drop. The problem is that it is mostly useless beyond that as those are the only cards that can make use of 4 red mana, and we wont alwasy have one, let alone one we want to cast. Wierding wood is a better solution to ramp as it fixes for you, does ramp a bit, and gives you a free card at some point down the road.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Hi, are you guys still playing this deck? Is green necessary? Or can you get away with three color and go mardu BRW?
I'm still running it. The main reasons for green are this: Ponder, Ramp, Nissa, and Arlinn. Oath of Nissa and Wierding Wood do alot to both help you accelerate out walkers and to find threats. Nissa is just all around great, ensures we hit land drops, and lets Nahiri fetch up a walker. Arlinn applies excellent pressure and usually will at least trade, if not get 2 creatures with her bolt ability. Lastly, Seasons past. That card is absolutely backbreaking in our lists as we have cards all across the curve. Usually it ends up being a draw 5, but I've seen a few draw 6 and draw 4's off of it too. You could just play mardu (perhaps adding in things like HBW and dragonmaster), but the green splash is generally more consistent, plus its more spicy and enjoyable than running only 3 colors (the feeling when you beat people after they trash your manabase is also great).
[Note]--Major update planned for primer with details on all the PT decks and how to beat them. Will likely be up by the end of the week.
I know you lose out on Languish but Naya Walkers is really good and provides consistency. I feel like it might be the deck to beat
I know you lose out on Languish but Naya Walkers is really good and provides consistency. I feel like it might be the deck to beat
Its not just Languish. You also lose out on Ob, Unmaking, Path, Transgress/Duress, Vent, Sorin, and Kalitas. Cutting those for a marginally increase in your manabase is simply not at all worth it. This deck is so good because you retain the explosiveness of naya walkers but get the best elements (removal and a very grindy long game) of mardu as well. It is also worth noting that there is a very large decrease in power between Languish and RadFlames.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
I just stumbled on this deck in my search for a planeswalker deck and am pretty impressed, definitely wanna sleeve it up and will give it a try. The primer is solid and I look forward to unleashing some superfriends.
This is the deck I built and took to a toruney tonight. Went 1-2-1. Didn't have a second Chandra or Sorin so I went with a Nissa and 2 Kalitas. Definitely enjoyed trying out the concept and will be making some adjustemnts for next week now that I have some familiarity with the deck.
A loss and the draw were totally due to some play mistakes and not being able to find a sweepr, so adding in 3 should be able to fix that issue.
After messing around with the deck for a bit, I'll be adding in some more field wipes. I didn't have too much issue with mana other than keeping a couple of greedy hands that didn't work out.
Behold the beyond wasn't a terrible card, but it always felt like giving the oppoent a time walk to finish the game the next turn or fall to whatever I grabbed.
@demonicfirefly
My testing confirms what you are saying about behold. Though there are some situations where it is better, I've had Seasons Past provide a much bigger impact upon casting. In addition, due to the prevalence of aggro lists (coco, tokens, etc) in my list I have switched out the Gideon oaths for a languish and a radiant flames. Oath of Chandra has also highly overperfomed, getting in 10+ damage in long matchups and giving excellent early interaction against faster decks (seriously. It's won me at least 10 games). I would also stay away from walker nissa as GG is tough to hit (we usually only want 1 green source before getting the other colors), and the list doesnt have a high enough creature or token count to make her -2 particularly good. Chandra is also one of the best cards in the list as she gives backup sweepers and lots of pressure. I would recommend getting more copies soon if you want to continue playing the list (likely taking the place of one-two of the RadFlames you added).
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." --Jaya Ballard
Yea I only threw Nissa in because I was short on planeswalkers and do plan to remove her going forward.
I was iffy on oath of chandra, but I really wish I had it when I was playing. Gideons oath was solid and allow for a bit of chump blocking as well as allowing ob nixilis to control the board better, but Ill prolly change the oaths. I do have a chandra and a seasons past on the way. I feel like 2 MB chandra should be sufficient, but will look for a 3rd.
In my current meta the majority is humans and 4C rites. There have been a couple random one ofs like the u/r googles but everything is extremely aggro, which is why im upping the flames count.
I've decided that Arlinn has lost her spot in the deck after this week. She feels like a less powerful Gideon at the 4 drop slot and producing a token.
This week I went against 3 decks. Not overly eventful, but I have a few details to share.
Vs. Devil's goggles
This matchup was really close and came down to having all my radiant flames and being able to play my orbs of warding both game 2 and 3 to make the deck pretty much useless. Turns out just putting in 2 orbs for tutelage and goggles burns, they actually have more uses.
Vs. B/W Control
Game 1 was an Ob Nixilis mirror with nothing happening on either side until he dropped a sorin, ultimated Ob and from there it was pretty much it.
Game 2 I was able to get Gideon and Chandra out without much interupption and he quickly conceded/
Game 3 I was on a mulligan and couldn't get a black mana source to save my life. He was able to trangress and duress my hand fairly quickly.
Vs. Grixis Control
Game 1 We were both on a mull to 5. I dropped Gideon and he scooped so he wouldn't reveal much of what he was playing.
Game 2 Went back and forth, but came down to me not having a removal spell for the fumarole which was able to hit me multiple times.
Game 3 Oath into Gideon, which he followed up with kalitas and dark dwellers. Double Ob Nixilis was able to wipe out both creatues and by he was unable to stabilize once Chandra hit the field.
Overall, the deck is running really solid and I've been putting a lot of work into this deck to figure out what works. The deck feels like its nearly there and with 7 MB sweepers aggro decks have been less of a concern for me.
And I think I'll be running 2 Hallowed Moonlight in the main at Manchester, swapping out flaying tendrils and ruinous path.
It's been going well for me, I feel I've had a lot of strong games, the deck feels almost there but I don't think what it's missing is in Standard right now. Thoughts?
Primers
4C Walkers
(for clarification)
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I know you lose out on Languish but Naya Walkers is really good and provides consistency. I feel like it might be the deck to beat
Its not just Languish. You also lose out on Ob, Unmaking, Path, Transgress/Duress, Vent, Sorin, and Kalitas. Cutting those for a marginally increase in your manabase is simply not at all worth it. This deck is so good because you retain the explosiveness of naya walkers but get the best elements (removal and a very grindy long game) of mardu as well. It is also worth noting that there is a very large decrease in power between Languish and RadFlames.
Primers
4C Walkers
Primers
4C Walkers
2x Battlefield Forge
2x Canopy Vista
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Forest
2x Hissing Quagmire
2x Llanowar Wastes
2x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Smoldering Marsh
2x Swamp
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
3x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Anguished Unmaking
2x Declaration in Stone
1x Descend upon the Sinful
2x Languish
2x Read the Bones
2x Ruinous Path
2x Oath of Gideon
4x Oath of Nissa
3x Weirding Wood
This is the deck I built and took to a toruney tonight. Went 1-2-1. Didn't have a second Chandra or Sorin so I went with a Nissa and 2 Kalitas. Definitely enjoyed trying out the concept and will be making some adjustemnts for next week now that I have some familiarity with the deck.
A loss and the draw were totally due to some play mistakes and not being able to find a sweepr, so adding in 3 should be able to fix that issue.
After messing around with the deck for a bit, I'll be adding in some more field wipes. I didn't have too much issue with mana other than keeping a couple of greedy hands that didn't work out.
Behold the beyond wasn't a terrible card, but it always felt like giving the oppoent a time walk to finish the game the next turn or fall to whatever I grabbed.
This is my plan for the time being.
- 2 Kalitas
-1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
+ 1 Languish
+2 Radiant Flames
My testing confirms what you are saying about behold. Though there are some situations where it is better, I've had Seasons Past provide a much bigger impact upon casting. In addition, due to the prevalence of aggro lists (coco, tokens, etc) in my list I have switched out the Gideon oaths for a languish and a radiant flames. Oath of Chandra has also highly overperfomed, getting in 10+ damage in long matchups and giving excellent early interaction against faster decks (seriously. It's won me at least 10 games). I would also stay away from walker nissa as GG is tough to hit (we usually only want 1 green source before getting the other colors), and the list doesnt have a high enough creature or token count to make her -2 particularly good. Chandra is also one of the best cards in the list as she gives backup sweepers and lots of pressure. I would recommend getting more copies soon if you want to continue playing the list (likely taking the place of one-two of the RadFlames you added).
Primers
4C Walkers
I was iffy on oath of chandra, but I really wish I had it when I was playing. Gideons oath was solid and allow for a bit of chump blocking as well as allowing ob nixilis to control the board better, but Ill prolly change the oaths. I do have a chandra and a seasons past on the way. I feel like 2 MB chandra should be sufficient, but will look for a 3rd.
In my current meta the majority is humans and 4C rites. There have been a couple random one ofs like the u/r googles but everything is extremely aggro, which is why im upping the flames count.
I do appreciate the feedback.
This week I went against 3 decks. Not overly eventful, but I have a few details to share.
Vs. Devil's goggles
This matchup was really close and came down to having all my radiant flames and being able to play my orbs of warding both game 2 and 3 to make the deck pretty much useless. Turns out just putting in 2 orbs for tutelage and goggles burns, they actually have more uses.
Vs. B/W Control
Game 1 was an Ob Nixilis mirror with nothing happening on either side until he dropped a sorin, ultimated Ob and from there it was pretty much it.
Game 2 I was able to get Gideon and Chandra out without much interupption and he quickly conceded/
Game 3 I was on a mulligan and couldn't get a black mana source to save my life. He was able to trangress and duress my hand fairly quickly.
Vs. Grixis Control
Game 1 We were both on a mull to 5. I dropped Gideon and he scooped so he wouldn't reveal much of what he was playing.
Game 2 Went back and forth, but came down to me not having a removal spell for the fumarole which was able to hit me multiple times.
Game 3 Oath into Gideon, which he followed up with kalitas and dark dwellers. Double Ob Nixilis was able to wipe out both creatues and by he was unable to stabilize once Chandra hit the field.
Overall, the deck is running really solid and I've been putting a lot of work into this deck to figure out what works. The deck feels like its nearly there and with 7 MB sweepers aggro decks have been less of a concern for me.
1x Battlefield Forge
2x Canopy Vista
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Cinder Glade
1x Dark Petition
2x Declaration in Stone
4x Evolving Wilds
1x Flaying Tendrils
2x Forest
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Island
3x Languish
3x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mountain
2x Nahiri, the Harbinger
2x Narset Transcendent
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Oath of Gideon
4x Oath of Nissa
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Plains
4x Planar Outburst
1x Ruinous Path
1x Sarkhan Unbroken
3x Shambling Vent
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2x Swamp
1x World Breaker
And I think I'll be running 2 Hallowed Moonlight in the main at Manchester, swapping out flaying tendrils and ruinous path.
It's been going well for me, I feel I've had a lot of strong games, the deck feels almost there but I don't think what it's missing is in Standard right now. Thoughts?
(link to tapped out for easier reading of deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/superfriends-for-standard/
Sorry, I'm phone posting)