I personally would not play chandra, but the argument can be made that if you play red, and your deck is more on a midrange level, chandra is just too powerful not to play.
She is great in the late game and can win a lot of games just by her self, Arlinn + Chandra equals a pairing that is very tough for a lot of decks to deal with. That is a constant force of wolves and elementals coming at you after you wiped the board with chandra.
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Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Not playing CoCo in this deck is non-sense to me. The simple fact that it allows you to go T2 and T3 dude into T4 keep mana up for CoCo (therefore flipping your werewolves on opponent's upkeep) and still progress your board makes it an autoinclude.
I agree. Unlike pretty much every other deck that wants CoCo, it's not about the surprise ETBs. It's about being able to play a few dudes on turns 1-3, pass on turn 4 to flip your field, and then casting it during the opponent's turn. Instant/flash spells in general are a huge boon to werewolves, since we need all the flexibility we can get to keep making plays while maintaining fangs and fur on the field.
I'm definitely running the full set in my deck. It's the rest I'm having trouble deciding on >_<
I personally would not play chandra, but the argument can be made that if you play red, and your deck is more on a midrange level, chandra is just too powerful not to play.
She is great in the late game and can win a lot of games just by her self, Arlinn + Chandra equals a pairing that is very tough for a lot of decks to deal with. That is a constant force of wolves and elementals coming at you after you wiped the board with chandra.
Excluding CoCo builds, Chandra is just one of the most powerful thing to be doing in red.
She wipes the board and then demands an answer in the next two turns. Right now, the format is about curving out to your 4-6 drops. The power difference between cards like Avacyn and Chandra and then 3 drops like Thopter Engineer is enormous. And your 4-6 drops don't just get answered by a spell flashed back by Jace.
4 drop creatures and expensive walkers matter again -- after a whole standard of irrelevancy due to C. Doom.
If you are playing wolves and werewolves I can't understand why you wouldn't want as many silverfur partisans as you can play, and 1-2 wolf of devil's breach. Late game wolf of devil's breach means you are essentially playing burn spells while not actually playing a spell so your werewolves will always flip after your turn. Seems like a no brainer. Especially in a meta that won't have many 5 power creatures outside of the big eldrazi, he now becomes the biggest threat on the board.
So, this deck is great in limited, I've got a 9-1 win ratio, so my gut tells me a Werewolf/CoCo deck might be viable.
This tribe has a PW, it has it's own Anthem, it can flash dudes in with CoCo, when they flip, it's really hard to combat them when you are putting 6-7 power in the board. Aside from my limited success, how are the match ups in testing so far? Why doesn't the list run 1-2 Neglected Heirloom ? Too slow? I mean +3, +3 first strike sounds pretty good...maybe that's just a limited combat trick, which usually works.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
If you are playing wolves and werewolves I can't understand why you wouldn't want as many silverfur partisans as you can play, and 1-2 wolf of devil's breach. Late game wolf of devil's breach means you are essentially playing burn spells while not actually playing a spell so your werewolves will always flip after your turn. Seems like a no brainer. Especially in a meta that won't have many 5 power creatures outside of the big eldrazi, he now becomes the biggest threat on the board.
Partisan is good when you have ways to target your partisan and Wolf of devil's breach is 5 drop that does nothing when it comes on to the battle field. In this deck, you want to keep your mana cost low, and leaving excess mana up for instant speed plays
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Game 1 we just want to fart power onto the board.
Game 2 we have plenty of answers for various strategies, from secure the wastes to Westvale Abby, we got answers.
Been testing this deck a bit...for all those around, you might want to consider rending volley in your sideboard, given the SCG Baltimore results...I know I am.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Been testing this deck a bit...for all those around, you might want to consider rending volley in your sideboard, given the SCG Baltimore results...I know I am.
As an oft red mage, this was basically my takeaway from the event. It hits most everything WW and an awful lot in Bant Company.
However, it still doesn't hit Archangel of Tithes -- despite hitting Avacyn -- so your removal is pulled in a variety of directions. Like most beatdown decks, you don't want an excess of removal, as most decks play the long game longer than you do. But having 1-2 pieces of efficient removal can really swing the game in your favor. Having a functional Dark Betrayal against WW lets you be mana positive against much of the deck. However, you probably also want something like Clip Wings to take care of Archangel.
On top of that, you want removal for impending Kalitas and control beaters that will be played due to the fact that WW is weak to sweepers. This pushes you towards Roast. Roast is quite broad and hits a lot of problem permanents while only being 2 mana -- albeit at sorcery speed. Yet, back to the Archangel problem, we're still pushed towards Clip Wings or other Plummet effects.
Of the three, I think I want some access to Clip Wings and Rending Volley next week, but I'd pay close attention to the room you are playing in, as local metas will shift as the season progresses. Roast could end up being the best removal spell you have access to.
Agreed...as far as removal, you have a combination of roast, clip wings, rending volley and moonlight hunt...generally i don't think you remove creatures, I think this deck should just RUN OVER THEM...but some removal is always a good idea, especially against displacer.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
While I haven't been playing a dedicated RG Werewolves deck, I have been jamming some playables in these colors and I have some thoughts on the more playable of the werewolves:
This card is very powerful in CoCo mirrors and against certain control decks. It's a lot worse as you play more mainphase and as your opponent may lean heavily on Languish. It's usually just SB material though the body is pretty good when it flips.
I thought this card would be terrible but then everyone started playing Humans. This card is very good against Humans. It gets worse as fewer people play cards such as Consul's Lieutenant. At worst, it can trade with an early Sylvan Advocate.
I thought I'd be higher on this card but it's been pretty weak. I think the problem is that the deck just doesn't go wide enough but the main problem is that a lot of combat based decks make it bad. There are loads of 3 drops in GR CoCo that are pretty good, so the ability better be stellar. Megamorph and 2 bodies (Thopter Engineer) are better. Not to mention a whole card draw engine in either Sin Prodder or Tireless Tracker.
This is what I've been working on for fun lately while trying to acquire the cards I need for anther deck and so far I've been happy with the way it's played. There is still plenty of room for improvement and admittedly I've only had the chance to test it against a friend working on some kind of U/G clue deck.
That said, I actually like a flipped Breakneck Rider unlike the post above. +1/0 and trample to all of my attacking creatures is tough on the opponent.
Werewolf deck require three basic things. Werewolves, ways to flip through tribal effects, mana sinks or instant spells, and hate mechanics for punishing your opponent for flipping your werewolves back.
Werewolves are one of my all time favorite tribes, my longest standing casual deck of five years, and a deck type I have put more hours into trying to make work than I care to admit. I look forward to failing to make this deck tier 0 with all of you.
To start things off, I believe neglected heirloom has a home here. It's a second one drop and basically a werewolf tribal equipment that grants +3 and first strike for 1&1. Mainly we just need another turn 1 play and it fits the bill nicely.
Howlpack Resurgence is actually an insanely strong card. Flash Anthems are no joke, and anyone who has ever played one knows what I am talking about. The extra utility in triggering transformations just makes it that much better. It's easily staple 3-4 of in every werewolf deck, including the ones trying to focus on utility.
I love werewolves.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Amen to that fellow packmate, or should I say 'awooooo'? They're the reason I am returning to Standard after a couple of years of hiatus.
Agreed that the 2-CMC spot is very important. I initially though Lambholdt Pacifist would be awesome, but without so much Lords this time compared to last time we visited Innistrad (2 vs 1) she's not so good. Better to leave her for Modern Werewolves. I think going 4x of both Kessig Forgemaster and Duskwatch Recruiter is the way to go.
I worked out this list today. It's a very different build than most discussed here, at least in part because I forgot CoCo existed. It combines werewolf tribal with token effects.
Each of the 'walkers can contribute a token of some kind for the Second Harvest, plus card draw from Sarkhan (and possibly Nissa), an anthem from Nissa, and Arlinn offers the most versatility, and reach. Vines of the Recluse is present mostly because I'm fond of the cheap untap combat trick.
I'll be the first to admit that this deck may not make sense, and it's certainly not pure tribal, so feel free to ask me to leave. =)
I made some changes to my deck listed above after getting a few more copies of certain cards. I still think it needs some work so any suggestions/help is appreciated.
I'm still trying to get 3 more copies of Recruiters, 2 more copies of Arlinn, and maybe 2-3 more copies of Resurgence though I'm not sure what to take out to make room for them once I do have the other copies.
Whatever the potential merits of this deck, it's good to note that Humans is going to have the lower curve. They've got one drops, and 2-drop first strike, and their anthem (Always Watching) offers vigilance. They will outrace us consistently.
For that matchup, I think we'd want to have disenchants available, and possibly consider a source of a third color to boost Radiant Flames.
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I personally would not play chandra, but the argument can be made that if you play red, and your deck is more on a midrange level, chandra is just too powerful not to play.
She is great in the late game and can win a lot of games just by her self, Arlinn + Chandra equals a pairing that is very tough for a lot of decks to deal with. That is a constant force of wolves and elementals coming at you after you wiped the board with chandra.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
—Radha, Keldon warlord
I agree. Unlike pretty much every other deck that wants CoCo, it's not about the surprise ETBs. It's about being able to play a few dudes on turns 1-3, pass on turn 4 to flip your field, and then casting it during the opponent's turn. Instant/flash spells in general are a huge boon to werewolves, since we need all the flexibility we can get to keep making plays while maintaining fangs and fur on the field.
I'm definitely running the full set in my deck. It's the rest I'm having trouble deciding on >_<
Excluding CoCo builds, Chandra is just one of the most powerful thing to be doing in red.
She wipes the board and then demands an answer in the next two turns. Right now, the format is about curving out to your 4-6 drops. The power difference between cards like Avacyn and Chandra and then 3 drops like Thopter Engineer is enormous. And your 4-6 drops don't just get answered by a spell flashed back by Jace.
4 drop creatures and expensive walkers matter again -- after a whole standard of irrelevancy due to C. Doom.
This tribe has a PW, it has it's own Anthem, it can flash dudes in with CoCo, when they flip, it's really hard to combat them when you are putting 6-7 power in the board. Aside from my limited success, how are the match ups in testing so far? Why doesn't the list run 1-2 Neglected Heirloom ? Too slow? I mean +3, +3 first strike sounds pretty good...maybe that's just a limited combat trick, which usually works.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Partisan is good when you have ways to target your partisan and Wolf of devil's breach is 5 drop that does nothing when it comes on to the battle field. In this deck, you want to keep your mana cost low, and leaving excess mana up for instant speed plays
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
4 Village Messenger
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Lambholt Pacifist
2 Hinterland Logger
4 Kessig Forgemaster
4 Breakneck Rider
4 Geier Reach Bandit
2 Atarka's Command
3 Howlpack Resurgence
4 Collected Company
3 Arlin Kord
22 lands
3 Act of Treason
3 Boiling Earth
3 Clip Wings
3 Pulse of Murasa
2 Moonlight Hunt
1 Atarka's Command
Game 1 we just want to fart power onto the board.
Game 2 we have plenty of answers for various strategies, from secure the wastes to Westvale Abby, we got answers.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
As an oft red mage, this was basically my takeaway from the event. It hits most everything WW and an awful lot in Bant Company.
However, it still doesn't hit Archangel of Tithes -- despite hitting Avacyn -- so your removal is pulled in a variety of directions. Like most beatdown decks, you don't want an excess of removal, as most decks play the long game longer than you do. But having 1-2 pieces of efficient removal can really swing the game in your favor. Having a functional Dark Betrayal against WW lets you be mana positive against much of the deck. However, you probably also want something like Clip Wings to take care of Archangel.
On top of that, you want removal for impending Kalitas and control beaters that will be played due to the fact that WW is weak to sweepers. This pushes you towards Roast. Roast is quite broad and hits a lot of problem permanents while only being 2 mana -- albeit at sorcery speed. Yet, back to the Archangel problem, we're still pushed towards Clip Wings or other Plummet effects.
Of the three, I think I want some access to Clip Wings and Rending Volley next week, but I'd pay close attention to the room you are playing in, as local metas will shift as the season progresses. Roast could end up being the best removal spell you have access to.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
-- Duskwatch Recruiter
Easily the best wolf. No mana dork? No Problem.
-- Hermit of the Natterknolls
This card is very powerful in CoCo mirrors and against certain control decks. It's a lot worse as you play more mainphase and as your opponent may lean heavily on Languish. It's usually just SB material though the body is pretty good when it flips.
-- Kessig Forgemaster
I thought this card would be terrible but then everyone started playing Humans. This card is very good against Humans. It gets worse as fewer people play cards such as Consul's Lieutenant. At worst, it can trade with an early Sylvan Advocate.
-- Breakneck Rider
I thought I'd be higher on this card but it's been pretty weak. I think the problem is that the deck just doesn't go wide enough but the main problem is that a lot of combat based decks make it bad. There are loads of 3 drops in GR CoCo that are pretty good, so the ability better be stellar. Megamorph and 2 bodies (Thopter Engineer) are better. Not to mention a whole card draw engine in either Sin Prodder or Tireless Tracker.
3 Ember-Eye Wolf
3 Quilled Wolf
2 Kessig Forgemaster
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Breakneck Rider
3 Geier Reach Bandit
2 Hermit of the Natterknolls
2 Solitary Hunter
2 Pack Guardian
2 Gatstaf Arsonist
4 Rush of Adrenaline
2 Moonlight Hunt
[Sorcery]
1 Magmatic Chasm
[Enchantment]
1 Howlpack Resurgence
[Artifacts]
3 Neglected Heirloom
2 Explosive Apparatus
[Planeswalker]
1 Arlinn Kord
9 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Cinder Glade
2 Game Trail
This is what I've been working on for fun lately while trying to acquire the cards I need for anther deck and so far I've been happy with the way it's played. There is still plenty of room for improvement and admittedly I've only had the chance to test it against a friend working on some kind of U/G clue deck.
That said, I actually like a flipped Breakneck Rider unlike the post above. +1/0 and trample to all of my attacking creatures is tough on the opponent.
Werewolves are one of my all time favorite tribes, my longest standing casual deck of five years, and a deck type I have put more hours into trying to make work than I care to admit. I look forward to failing to make this deck tier 0 with all of you.
To start things off, I believe neglected heirloom has a home here. It's a second one drop and basically a werewolf tribal equipment that grants +3 and first strike for 1&1. Mainly we just need another turn 1 play and it fits the bill nicely.
Howlpack Resurgence is actually an insanely strong card. Flash Anthems are no joke, and anyone who has ever played one knows what I am talking about. The extra utility in triggering transformations just makes it that much better. It's easily staple 3-4 of in every werewolf deck, including the ones trying to focus on utility.
I love werewolves.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Agreed that the 2-CMC spot is very important. I initially though Lambholdt Pacifist would be awesome, but without so much Lords this time compared to last time we visited Innistrad (2 vs 1) she's not so good. Better to leave her for Modern Werewolves. I think going 4x of both Kessig Forgemaster and Duskwatch Recruiter is the way to go.
4 Cinder Glade
9 Forest
4 Game Trail
1 Island
4 Mountain
Creatures
2 Dragonmaster Outcast
4 Hermit of the Natterknolls
4 Silverfur Partisan
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Arlinn Kord
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Sarkhan Unbroken
Spells
3 Howlpack Resurgence
3 Magmatic Chasm
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Second Harvest
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Vines of the Recluse
Each of the 'walkers can contribute a token of some kind for the Second Harvest, plus card draw from Sarkhan (and possibly Nissa), an anthem from Nissa, and Arlinn offers the most versatility, and reach. Vines of the Recluse is present mostly because I'm fond of the cheap untap combat trick.
I'll be the first to admit that this deck may not make sense, and it's certainly not pure tribal, so feel free to ask me to leave. =)
like where money isnt an issue and u have access to all the cards?
4x arlin kors for sure?
4 Ember-Eye Wolf
4 Kessig Forgemaster
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Breakneck Rider
3 Geier Reach Bandit
2 Hermit of the Natterknolls
2 Solitary Hunter
3 Pack Guardian
2 Gatstaf Arsonist
4 Rush of Adrenaline
4 Moonlight Hunt
[Enchantment]
1 Howlpack Resurgence
[Artifacts]
3 Neglected Heirloom
[Planeswalker]
1 Arlinn Kord
[Lands]
9 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Cinder Glade
2 Game Trail
I'm still trying to get 3 more copies of Recruiters, 2 more copies of Arlinn, and maybe 2-3 more copies of Resurgence though I'm not sure what to take out to make room for them once I do have the other copies.
its just too weak but i do like green / red's removals...
arlin kord + howling is game finsiher
For that matchup, I think we'd want to have disenchants available, and possibly consider a source of a third color to boost Radiant Flames.