So I'm looking at eye of the storm. And im looking at sins of the past. And I'm like wtf? Recursive sins of the past, triggering the storm for free, and the only thing your opponent can do about it is instant interruption?
And the only thing I'm lacking is the kill condition. And I realize that there's glimpse. And there's Traumatize.
And now im wondering 2 things - has anyone else played around with these cards, and if so, how?
Heartbeat, for godsakes? That seems janky, but I cant think of any other way of ramping mana.
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Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I don't see what's so great about it. You only get one free Eye trigger, right? You play Sins, it goes under the Eye, you play a copy and get to play a card from your graveyard...then that card goes under the Eye, and you play a copy of it. That's all that happens...isn't it?
I guess I don't see why Sins is so great. I'd rather have two Glimpses under the Eye than a Sins and a Glimpse...right?
Sins of the past. Targeting whatever's juicy (Glimpse) in your grave. RFG, resolve the traumatize on your opponent.
Resolve the Glimpse. Trigger Traumatize, your opponent again, sins, something else if you really need it, and glimpse. another half their library, a glimpse, and a sins (if you need it).
If your REALLY want to have fun, make traumatize or sins a one of, and use tunnel vision. Yay tutors!
And moonlight bargain for card drawing.
Where's the rituals when you need them?
EDIT - Whats your opponent going to do to stop you? Counter something? Your going off during your turn, and you finish and say "Go". So what if they traumatized you 8 times? Or glimpsed you? Instant speed targetable drawing? Where?
EDIT #2 - Splash green for heartbeat, sakura, and birds. Consider recollect. Eye of the storm turn 3-4 and winning the following seems good.
Nice idea. But my group has tested the bloody heck out of Sins, and it just wasn't worth it.
In most Eye deck, your most expensive spell is 3. Sin costs 6, but so does Recollect plus whatever you are getting back.
Besides, with Recollect under Eye, you can transmute a Drift of Phantasms over and over, fetching Early Harvest first, playing that, then getting most of the deck. Sins can't fecth Drift from the yard, making it inferior.
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Of course, my thought was that giving your opponent early harvest is what ususally screws the pooch in most eye of the storm decks - seriously, eventually with at least one draw spell and an early harvest, almost any deck can go lethal on you...
Harder to do with the sins lock... I think... Cause there's no instant speed card drawing.
Deck also needs 1x time stop, to kill the cycle when you want to, not when your opponent wants to.
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Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I guy at my card shop runs eye with sins and to keep the combo going after he has no cards in his graveyard he uses the one draw 3 discard 2 spell so he can discard other important cards to recure. He has green in it for heartbeat and elder so he can excel and survive the early game.
Thirst for Knowledge+DSC would prevent decking, wouldn't it? As long as you could prevent getting it removed from the game at any rate.
I'm still working on it, but my line of thinking is that the above mentioned combo + Sins of the Past could possibly achieve a weird lockdown that eventually decks your opponent if they can't recycle their yard into their deck and have no "shuffle it back in" artifact... a Counterspell thrown on the stack might even make it more fun, forcing them to counter the polymorphs and the giants...
Am I on crack or is this possible? Forgive me, I'm still sort of green when it comes to combo decks. I'm just not sure it can't be made to backfire rather easily. ???
...
4 Thirst for Knowledge
...1 Darksteel Colossus
Thirst for Knowledge+DSC would prevent decking, wouldn't it? As long as you could prevent getting it removed from the game at any rate.
If, say, your library consists entirely of a single Colossus and you play TfK, then you'll draw the Colossus, try (and fail) to draw two more cards, shuffle the Colossus back into your library...and then die.
So, I don't think your combo works...although I've already missed one combo in this thread
I bet it would be an interesting deck anyways, Eye of storming a polymorph as often as needed t keep dropping it, right? Big Shiny Robot? Right? Cuz I just know the polymorph won't help out the other side of the table at all, right? </timmy mode>
Ok, half being silly. So what are the anti-decking one's self options then?
If, say, your library consists entirely of a single Colossus and you play TfK, then you'll draw the Colossus, try (and fail) to draw two more cards, shuffle the Colossus back into your library...and then die.
So, I don't think your combo works...although I've already missed one combo in this thread
Azerbaijan is mostly correct. His ruling is correct, however the fact that Darksteel Colossus isn't legal in standard could impact a deck that uses it anyways.
In any case, I feel that on initial observation this deck isn't very good. You have to play 'Eye and 'Past and then you also have other cards that you need to draw to make it work. If your going to run combo, there are better combos you could probally run.
Uhhh..in Standard? Tomorrow...that's all I can think of. Uba Mask protects your opponent too.
Theres a few more. You can always use Reito lantern to not only avoid decking, but to draw the cards you want. Theres Reminisce, but that somewhat defeats the decks purpose. I'm sure there are lots of others if you take the time to look.
i'd guess the best bet for brokenness here would be either harvest/glimpse/draw spell or sins/glimpse... we're in the process of playtesting the early harvest/glimpse/draw set-up, and i'm currently thinking of a way to go around the eye's and sins's casting costs (wasn't that aware of sins of the past before, thanks for letting me know about it). well, you're G/B/U if you want mana-fixing, how about getting some tokens then playing blood funnel?
Amazing how much fun this is to pull off, and how little most decks can do to you. With no instant speed targeted draw in the environment, its remarkably easy to mill yourself out for cards, mill your opponent out, and say go.
Cranial Extractions = Bad, but not fatal.
Birds+Ste+Rampant Growth = Mana. Have thought about Reach, but with 10 basics, dosen't seem to work very often.
EDIT - Who cares of your opponent reacts? What are they going to do?
NINJA EDIT 2 - Whoa. 1 wrath of god side or main - main is good. Yay sins! (Boo ghazi glare!) And who the hell runs Ivory Mask Maindeck!!!!
i would suggest dropping traumatize though, i think glimpse is enough, u can repeat it anyway with every spell you'll cast. have thought about dosan? or maybe persecute to make sure your opponent won't be able to react to it when you start the engine
Traumatize is actually there primerially to hit yourself and fill your graveyard.
Although I do think that dropping it to 2 and upping glimpse to 3 is some good.
Still confused... How is your opponent going to react? Just curious...
example, you start getting the engine running, the opponent has an instant or two in his hand. he casts the instant on his turn in reaction to yours, copies the glimpse and the sins of the past for it, as well as anything removed from the game with eye of the storm. he would then be able to use the engine on you
As ello's been saying - repeatedly - there is no legal spell which could really hurt him. He fires up the engine during his turn, decks the opponent, says "go" and then wins in the opponent's draw step.
The oppos can't win because they can't make him draw before they die.
an opponent casting a shock on your turn can use the engine to copy the shock over and over again. you'll be able to do the same, game ends in draw... same thing goes with any instant which makes anyone lose life, so anything a red or black player can do is keep at least one burn spell in hand ready for when you start your engine
The oppo only gets an advantage if they are holding at least two instant burn spells in hand, with mana to play both, and the two spells together wouldn't be enough to kill you without the Eye.
Even if this does happen, they can only keep the cycle going for as many instants as they have in hand and graveyard. And Ellomdian can respond with an instant (he'll likely have more; the deck's built around them, after all) and torch the opponent right back, plus additional milling. Or he can just Remand them.
I don't think he has anything to worry about.
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And the only thing I'm lacking is the kill condition. And I realize that there's glimpse. And there's Traumatize.
And now im wondering 2 things - has anyone else played around with these cards, and if so, how?
Heartbeat, for godsakes? That seems janky, but I cant think of any other way of ramping mana.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
I guess I don't see why Sins is so great. I'd rather have two Glimpses under the Eye than a Sins and a Glimpse...right?
/helpful
Which plays something else for free. That gets the sins back...
Every time you play the free sins spell, its triggering the eye stack, and replaying the sins.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
Knew I was missing something there. Now I like it
Traumatize yourself. RFG, and resolve.
Sins of the past. Targeting whatever's juicy (Glimpse) in your grave. RFG, resolve the traumatize on your opponent.
Resolve the Glimpse. Trigger Traumatize, your opponent again, sins, something else if you really need it, and glimpse. another half their library, a glimpse, and a sins (if you need it).
If your REALLY want to have fun, make traumatize or sins a one of, and use tunnel vision. Yay tutors!
And moonlight bargain for card drawing.
Where's the rituals when you need them?
EDIT - Whats your opponent going to do to stop you? Counter something? Your going off during your turn, and you finish and say "Go". So what if they traumatized you 8 times? Or glimpsed you? Instant speed targetable drawing? Where?
EDIT #2 - Splash green for heartbeat, sakura, and birds. Consider recollect. Eye of the storm turn 3-4 and winning the following seems good.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
In most Eye deck, your most expensive spell is 3. Sin costs 6, but so does Recollect plus whatever you are getting back.
Besides, with Recollect under Eye, you can transmute a Drift of Phantasms over and over, fetching Early Harvest first, playing that, then getting most of the deck. Sins can't fecth Drift from the yard, making it inferior.
Harder to do with the sins lock... I think... Cause there's no instant speed card drawing.
Deck also needs 1x time stop, to kill the cycle when you want to, not when your opponent wants to.
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
Thirst for Knowledge+DSC would prevent decking, wouldn't it? As long as you could prevent getting it removed from the game at any rate.
I'm still working on it, but my line of thinking is that the above mentioned combo + Sins of the Past could possibly achieve a weird lockdown that eventually decks your opponent if they can't recycle their yard into their deck and have no "shuffle it back in" artifact... a Counterspell thrown on the stack might even make it more fun, forcing them to counter the polymorphs and the giants...
Am I on crack or is this possible? Forgive me, I'm still sort of green when it comes to combo decks. I'm just not sure it can't be made to backfire rather easily. ???
So, I don't think your combo works...although I've already missed one combo in this thread
I bet it would be an interesting deck anyways, Eye of storming a polymorph as often as needed t keep dropping it, right? Big Shiny Robot? Right? Cuz I just know the polymorph won't help out the other side of the table at all, right? </timmy mode>
Ok, half being silly. So what are the anti-decking one's self options then?
Azerbaijan is mostly correct. His ruling is correct, however the fact that Darksteel Colossus isn't legal in standard could impact a deck that uses it anyways.
In any case, I feel that on initial observation this deck isn't very good. You have to play 'Eye and 'Past and then you also have other cards that you need to draw to make it work. If your going to run combo, there are better combos you could probally run.
If you want to go more OT, there's Obstinate Familiar, the Onslaught winds, etc....
Theres a few more. You can always use Reito lantern to not only avoid decking, but to draw the cards you want. Theres Reminisce, but that somewhat defeats the decks purpose. I'm sure there are lots of others if you take the time to look.
Mostly I was just trying to think of some sort of antidecker, and yes, Tomorrow does seem like a very good option.
Are there any cheaper ones?
3 Sins of the Past
1 Time Stop
1 Shred Memory
3 Remand
Draw/Tutor
4 Telling Time
4 Moonlight Bargain
3 Traumatize
2 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Tendo Ice Bridge
3 Swamp
4 Forest
3 Island
Interesting things from playtest:
Amazing how much fun this is to pull off, and how little most decks can do to you. With no instant speed targeted draw in the environment, its remarkably easy to mill yourself out for cards, mill your opponent out, and say go.
Cranial Extractions = Bad, but not fatal.
Birds+Ste+Rampant Growth = Mana. Have thought about Reach, but with 10 basics, dosen't seem to work very often.
EDIT - Who cares of your opponent reacts? What are they going to do?
NINJA EDIT 2 - Whoa. 1 wrath of god side or main - main is good. Yay sins! (Boo ghazi glare!) And who the hell runs Ivory Mask Maindeck!!!!
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
Although I do think that dropping it to 2 and upping glimpse to 3 is some good.
Still confused... How is your opponent going to react? Just curious...
Modern: Dominium Eminens
Legacy: UB Tezz (Check out My Primer at TheSource)
Vinitage: Oath
I used to judge alot.
example, you start getting the engine running, the opponent has an instant or two in his hand. he casts the instant on his turn in reaction to yours, copies the glimpse and the sins of the past for it, as well as anything removed from the game with eye of the storm. he would then be able to use the engine on you
The oppos can't win because they can't make him draw before they die.
Even if this does happen, they can only keep the cycle going for as many instants as they have in hand and graveyard. And Ellomdian can respond with an instant (he'll likely have more; the deck's built around them, after all) and torch the opponent right back, plus additional milling. Or he can just Remand them.
I don't think he has anything to worry about.