the manabase here is awfull? how come? I think I have had slight mana problems two times of the 40 times I played with the deck and properly mana screwd only once..
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u said that te mana base was kinda unstable...
this is my build, its about 1 turn slower, but uses top to fing enduring faster, and its mana base is alot more stable:
Do you really need the Ghostly Prison? I mean, either you want it so that you can cast it, which means it'd be a four of, or you don't want it at all. Once you Ideal, it's pretty worthless. I mean, Form of the Dragon makes it so that most creatures can't attack and you can Confiscate any big flyer. If they're beating for one or two in the air, Form takes you back to five at the end of each of your turns.
I'm assuming that you're wanting to draw it and play it against beatdown decks to give yourself more time?
yes... the truth is that it is "a wild card", im currently looking for a good replacement
i know that maybe i should add an extra top
maybe 2 witness in case of discard, or an extra confiskake and something else??
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here is another post directed at all the naysayers( and once again another mod) do some fricken testing before you test this deck. No this may not be another Tooth and Nail but it has the possiblity to beat Tooth mainly because the deck consistently goes off around turn 3-5, which last time i checked was pretty good in Standard. Oh, and all of the people who says the mana base sucks, you have Tendo, mox, pentad prism, and talisman which basically fix all of your mana problems.
Every time I destroy an opponent's creature, I jump on the table, yell "Boo ya, you son of a *****!", rip the card in half, urinate on it, then forcefully shove it down my opponent's throat.
Needless to say, I don't have many players in my playgroup anymore.
I've been testing this deck, and it's been going of VERY reliably for me. I was playing a guy with Mono-Black, I got off 3rd turn both games and he just couldn't stand up to it. FotD is amazing, especially when you get board position and you just whip out 2-3 of them...wowo.
I played MUC, lost the first game due to counters, but I sided in Boiling Seas and even mana leaks 3rd game and won the match.
So far, the main deck this can have a problem with is Blue Tron, and T@N, it just depends on who gets of first.
I played vs a pre-9yh build with few (no?) mirrodin cards at regionals, and it was about a turn slower than TNN, and about equally consistent. I'd say it has a shot with rav, esp. if it gains targets.
This def has potential. I somewhat like the idea of the Divining top combined with STEs, Rampant (or farseek from rav), and kodamas reach. Much like tnn....
it makes it alot easier to find enduring, the deck playes fast usually have the turn five enduring, i replaced 1 of the ghostly prizons with 1 confiscate, which is better and the other 2 with pithing needle (for now cauze i couldnt think of any ohter enchantement to put in)
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I personally think that the red splash is going too far for form... id much rather run a W/G build with blue splash and possibly have dragon as a fetch target, but not have the intention to hard cast it...
Although Ghost Lit Raider is pretty good... If you're going for the red anyway, I'd rather use Jiwari... since he can nuke pretty much everything instead.
i only have 1 red land... no other sources and no intention to hard cast it, but im running 2 just in case i get a god hand and a form in it so i dont have to ditch it. jiwari costs 2 red and id rather not add 1 more land and expect to get both by searching... i rarely have to kill anything after i play enduring, but when i do its enough. im still trying to find 2 more enchantements for the deck... ideas anyone??
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It's personal preference really... like I said, I'd much rather play W/G than try playing red at all... white is fully equipped to deal with creatures via *** and such... and after youve cast ideal, you should be on the path to winning anyway.
As for two more enchantments... id probably want a honden of infinite rage and a honden of life's web in there. Since you're able to hardcast them both, it's a good thing to have against aggro (red honden is suprisingly good, taking out all sorts of dumb hawks and latern kamis) and they also double up as a finisher late game.
crazed mike: I think the WUR list is superior to the WG list as its much more explosive and it needs to be to survive the way I see it.. I think that WG may be sligltly more stable but I belive that Good form version is good also because of the posibility to hardacast any of its ideal targets.. This means that form can still kick ass even if they extract the ideal.. the WG list is hurt more by cranial then the WUR list and its slower so it dies easier to decks like TNN because while the deck has good matchups against TNN it needs explosivness.. also the WG slowness makes the deck weaker against MUC and Blue tron..
edit: If sideboard ecnahntment hate becomes more popular later on in the meta I belive sideboarding reito lanter would be an exelent idea as it would make all ur enchantments post ideal much more endurable, espeically the 1 ofs..
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[thread=41221][my extendo sig][/thread] [thread=56664][moderator helpdesk][/thread] [Pen and Paper Inn]
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Reito lanterns are indeed a Grat idea game 2. I was just wandering on a couple of enchantments for the SB.
1. Story circle (plus other random cops), just to last against aggro before ideal hits
2. Peace of mind. Often you need life towards the end of the game, and you usually end up with a lot of junk cards. Negative synergy with meshin though.
Proxied this up and played a few games the other day. Here's a few thoughts.
If you've got a large amount of TAN in your environment (and let's face it, who doesn't), as well as any amount of blue... you need an answer to Temporal Adept.
Personally, I tried to Confiscate the pesky thing via Ideal, only to have him go, EOT Boomerang your confiscate. He untaps, and now has an adept to bounce whatever enchantments I drop into play, and thanks to Ideal I can't get rid of the stupid guy.
Personally, I'd reccomend Night of Soul's Betrayal, possibly replacing a single confiscate. To keep an adept alive then they'll have to bounce the adept in response, THEN bounce the NOSB, then replay the adept. Hopefully that's enough time to let you drop a pair of Form of the Dragons on him.
I was told today that this kid on my team called 911 twice this morning and hung up both times. They called back and his dad answered. The reason the kid called 911? He got an erection and didn't know what to do. I wish I was making this up.
I've been in love with this deck ever since I saw it last Friday. Immediately began scrounging up the cards for it, meanwhile playing with proxies. This is the decklist I'm using right now:
The mana base is actually terrific. The Norweigan Nationals build has Tendo Ice Bridge where I have some basics and Shivan Reef, but still, if you count chrome mox, I have W:21, R:17, U:25. It all hurts, but it all works, heh. Plus, you are immune to Sundering Titan. I was one turn away from Enduring Ideal when my opponent cast Tooth last night, and I still won that game.
The deck is very hard to race. I've lost a few games to second turn Sword of Fire and Ice on a slith, but lots of decks lose to that. Anything slower, and if your opponent isn't packing disruption he's in trouble.
Ideal Form is vulnerable to the right kind of disruption, though. Black strategies won't hurt so much. You go off too early for their discard to bother you, and you have no creatures. A timely distress could be disastourous, though. Land D is much worse, because you absolutely have to get to seven mana, and its not easy in the face of second turn rains of the stone or molten variety. And as everyone knows, counterspells are really, really good against you.
Also, a little bit of what I think the deck will be like post rotatation. You don't lose any of the critical spells, but you do lose alot of speed and consistency. There will be no more turn 2 Ideal, or even turn 3 likely. The entire format will slow down and this is really bad for Enduring Ideal. I think the deck is strong because you can start hitting people with powerful enchantments before they're set up or ready to deal with them. The longer you have to wait to cast Ideal the more outs your opponents will have, whereas you gain nothing from the additional cards/time, except maybe a lower life total.
Finally, I think Ideal Form will be a solid tier 2 deck until mirrodin rotates out. With good draws (easy) and good matchups (not so hard) you could probably do quite well with it on friday nights, or maybe some larger Saturday tournaments. Also the key cards are real cheap right now, if you happen to have the duals and the moxes. I got my Enduring Ideals for $2.00 each and Form of the Dragon for something like $0.35 each.
I played this deck at our Sunday tourney in Southern Illinois for a change of pace. I had only play tested it 3 times before going to the tourney. Round one: I face R/G land Destruction I go off turn two with turn one pentad. Games two and three sucked as I got Jester's Capped for all of my win conditions as I couldn't find the white to cast Ideal.
Round Two: I faced TNN, He goes off turn 4, I follow with Ideal on my turn dropping Form, then Confiscated his colossus and Kiki Jiki, game two I go off on turn 3 dropping form, and then another form for the win.
Round Three: I face a pretty intriguing rogue deck featuring a lock with Shirei,and Daring Apprentice. I got locked two games straight and scoop post haste.
Round Four: MBC, boy this was fun. I figured I was out of the running for top 4 so I thought Id have fun this game. Go off Turn three both games, dropping Ivory Mask,followed by White Honden, and Zur's Weirding. and proceed to deck him both games. really fun.
I absolutely love this deck, It is mind-boggling fast. Of course it dies to a Counterspell, and without white mana available, It really sucks. Also I wouldnt suggest playing this without the Genju., As I tried to, Its tough to win with just forms.
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MTGArena: Mardu Aristocrats, Mono-R, 4C Dreadhorde, Golgari Citadel
Proxied this up and played a few games the other day. Here's a few thoughts.
If you've got a large amount of TAN in your environment (and let's face it, who doesn't), as well as any amount of blue... you need an answer to Temporal Adept.
Personally, I tried to Confiscate the pesky thing via Ideal, only to have him go, EOT Boomerang your confiscate. He untaps, and now has an adept to bounce whatever enchantments I drop into play, and thanks to Ideal I can't get rid of the stupid guy.
Personally, I'd reccomend Night of Soul's Betrayal, possibly replacing a single confiscate. To keep an adept alive then they'll have to bounce the adept in response, THEN bounce the NOSB, then replay the adept. Hopefully that's enough time to let you drop a pair of Form of the Dragons on him.
Just confiscate it again. They don't get priority to use it fast enough.
Man, you guys are making a lot of changes. You're even discussion adding more colors and tinkering with the manabase and whatnot? I've been playing the deck for close to two weeks now and I've only made one change so far. -1 Confiscate (still leaving me with two), +1 Thirst for Knowledge (taking me up to four). I felt I needed more ways to find Enduring Ideal.
I think the deck was built very well. Messing around with it too much, I feel, makes it less consistant.
I have run (or seen someone else run into) a couple of problems with the deck. Namely flying creatures. Sometimes Mind Cage doesn't help (their creature is too big or you don't have enough cards in your hand) and sometimes you can't Confiscate the creature (like yesterday when there was a Sword of Fire/Ice equipped Hippie).
I think in those situations, you just grit your teeth, shuffle up for the next game and hope you can go off faster next time.
that is a problem
i have a sb of worship + green honden which could help.
question... channeling has a color?? ghost-lit raider to kill when a critter is equiped with Sofi?
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ok to make this deck good you dont need confiscate you need 3 ivory mask 4 ideals and 4 form of dragon you dont need all that extra stuff and you wan to have a ton of mana excel so that you can drop the spells fast i would say make it W/G/U and have excel and draw.
if you diisagree then ok but this is just wut i think.
nono, definitely not trust me when i say thet u offter find yourself cornered enough that only a confiscate can save u, in fact its so good that i have 3 im my deck thinking of putting 4
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I agree, the confiscates are life-savers and often game changers. I stole a sengir vampire, only to then see a KoKo. I topdecked the ideal to fetch a 2nd confiscate and win the game via beats
If anything I would say for the deck, I would run sb cranial, which is nuts I know, but I have been cranialed for form and ideal once, it was game.
ok but when i was testing this deck it worked really well because the card draw let u run through most of the cards in your deck and he land accel helps you run through ur deck even faster i usually get the ideal out buy turn 5 or 6 every game. and with the form of the dragon and the meishen i have found no need to put in some stalling cards that only give our opponent some chances to win the game while you arnt doing anything.
the dragons are the problem, even if u play meishin, they have a potential kokusho that they can kill to make u lose life. which means dead when u have the form in play
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[thread=41221][my extendo sig][/thread] [thread=56664][moderator helpdesk][/thread] [Pen and Paper Inn]
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this is my build, its about 1 turn slower, but uses top to fing enduring faster, and its mana base is alot more stable:
4 sakura-tribe elder
4 llanowar elves
3 ghost-lit raider
other 26
4 kodama's reach
4 rampant growth
3 sensei's devining top
4 enduring ideal
2 form of the dragon
1 meishin, the mind cage
1 zur's weirding
1 honden of cleansing fire
1 genju of the realm
2 confiscate
3 ghostly prison
4 quicksand
4 brushland
7 forest
6 plains
1 mountain
1 island
1 meisin, the mind cage
1 ivory mask
4 cranial extraction
1 honden of life's web
1 worship
1 story circle
1 night of souls' betrayal
1 swamp
2 boseiju
2 sylvan scrying
earliest it can play enduring is turn 3, usualy by turn 4-5, but the nice thing is that it has 12 shufflings which lets u use top to find enduring.
what do u think?
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I'm assuming that you're wanting to draw it and play it against beatdown decks to give yourself more time?
i know that maybe i should add an extra top
maybe 2 witness in case of discard, or an extra confiskake and something else??
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I played MUC, lost the first game due to counters, but I sided in Boiling Seas and even mana leaks 3rd game and won the match.
So far, the main deck this can have a problem with is Blue Tron, and T@N, it just depends on who gets of first.
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Although Ghost Lit Raider is pretty good... If you're going for the red anyway, I'd rather use Jiwari... since he can nuke pretty much everything instead.
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It's personal preference really... like I said, I'd much rather play W/G than try playing red at all... white is fully equipped to deal with creatures via *** and such... and after youve cast ideal, you should be on the path to winning anyway.
As for two more enchantments... id probably want a honden of infinite rage and a honden of life's web in there. Since you're able to hardcast them both, it's a good thing to have against aggro (red honden is suprisingly good, taking out all sorts of dumb hawks and latern kamis) and they also double up as a finisher late game.
edit: If sideboard ecnahntment hate becomes more popular later on in the meta I belive sideboarding reito lanter would be an exelent idea as it would make all ur enchantments post ideal much more endurable, espeically the 1 ofs..
[thread=41221][my extendo sig][/thread] [thread=56664][moderator helpdesk][/thread] [Pen and Paper Inn]
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1. Story circle (plus other random cops), just to last against aggro before ideal hits
2. Peace of mind. Often you need life towards the end of the game, and you usually end up with a lot of junk cards. Negative synergy with meshin though.
Just a thought.
If you've got a large amount of TAN in your environment (and let's face it, who doesn't), as well as any amount of blue... you need an answer to Temporal Adept.
Personally, I tried to Confiscate the pesky thing via Ideal, only to have him go, EOT Boomerang your confiscate. He untaps, and now has an adept to bounce whatever enchantments I drop into play, and thanks to Ideal I can't get rid of the stupid guy.
Personally, I'd reccomend Night of Soul's Betrayal, possibly replacing a single confiscate. To keep an adept alive then they'll have to bounce the adept in response, THEN bounce the NOSB, then replay the adept. Hopefully that's enough time to let you drop a pair of Form of the Dragons on him.
Mafia Stats
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Form of the Dragon
3 Confiscate
1 Zur's Wierding
1 Ivory Mask
1 Meishan, Mind Cage
1 Genju of the Realm
4 Talisman of Progress
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
4 Shivan Reef
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
A couple of comments:
Finally, I think Ideal Form will be a solid tier 2 deck until mirrodin rotates out. With good draws (easy) and good matchups (not so hard) you could probably do quite well with it on friday nights, or maybe some larger Saturday tournaments. Also the key cards are real cheap right now, if you happen to have the duals and the moxes. I got my Enduring Ideals for $2.00 each and Form of the Dragon for something like $0.35 each.
Round Two: I faced TNN, He goes off turn 4, I follow with Ideal on my turn dropping Form, then Confiscated his colossus and Kiki Jiki, game two I go off on turn 3 dropping form, and then another form for the win.
Round Three: I face a pretty intriguing rogue deck featuring a lock with Shirei,and Daring Apprentice. I got locked two games straight and scoop post haste.
Round Four: MBC, boy this was fun. I figured I was out of the running for top 4 so I thought Id have fun this game. Go off Turn three both games, dropping Ivory Mask,followed by White Honden, and Zur's Weirding. and proceed to deck him both games. really fun.
I absolutely love this deck, It is mind-boggling fast. Of course it dies to a Counterspell, and without white mana available, It really sucks. Also I wouldnt suggest playing this without the Genju., As I tried to, Its tough to win with just forms.
Draft and Pauper on MTGO: RonTrauma
MTGArena: Mardu Aristocrats, Mono-R, 4C Dreadhorde, Golgari Citadel
Just confiscate it again. They don't get priority to use it fast enough.
I think the deck was built very well. Messing around with it too much, I feel, makes it less consistant.
I have run (or seen someone else run into) a couple of problems with the deck. Namely flying creatures. Sometimes Mind Cage doesn't help (their creature is too big or you don't have enough cards in your hand) and sometimes you can't Confiscate the creature (like yesterday when there was a Sword of Fire/Ice equipped Hippie).
I think in those situations, you just grit your teeth, shuffle up for the next game and hope you can go off faster next time.
i have a sb of worship + green honden which could help.
question... channeling has a color?? ghost-lit raider to kill when a critter is equiped with Sofi?
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if you diisagree then ok but this is just wut i think.
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Form of the Dragon
2 Meishin, the Mind Cage
4 Enduring Ideal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Chrome Mox
4 Talisman of Progress
4 Pentad Prism
4 Island
4 Plains
7 Forest
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
4 Culling Scales
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Sea's Claim
4 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
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If anything I would say for the deck, I would run sb cranial, which is nuts I know, but I have been cranialed for form and ideal once, it was game.
Ix
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