Ohhh, I realized I never wasted anyones time here with my own version of MBC.
I know a lot of people seem to be against running MD Horobi, but I've actually found my MBC is doing far better now with the MD Horobi, then it was without it. Plus, im dumb enough to run MD Tooth of Kiss, as well.
A lot of people are saying I should be running MD hand disruption. But every time I do, I end up being totally dissapointed with it. If anything, I might just run 2 MD Persecute, call me dumb, but I think Distress is overrated.
hmmm... i still wouldn't go back to running Horobi even though it stop that jitte sillyness, because everyone runs the legendary lands or some way to target him. Also you have to run the tooth of whatever to make him really effective. have you tried yokura in place of Horobi? i think he might work a little better, this would also let you take out the teeth for more removal. distress is good because it lets you get rid of things that are hard for black to get rid of once they hit the field(artifacts, enchantments). but if you don't want to run it thats fine, just make sure you run oblivion stone in the mb or sb to deal with the the random stuff people play(karma, jitte, ect...)
i have actually dropped some of my hand disruption from the md as well in favor of running damping matrix again. heres my pile of black garbage as well:tongue2:
ochlophobia:
agreed, that you are too removal heavy.
switching in hideous laughter is a good idea, as well as possibly barter in blood.
both can deal with trolls, and barter lets you sac kokusho if need be. even if there is lots of aggro in your area, you dont need that many. hand disruption is the best replacement. as its effects are useful against basically all decks. whereas removal is dead against most non aggro decks
hmmm... i still wouldn't go back to running Horobi even though it stop that jitte sillyness, because everyone runs the legendary lands or some way to target him. Also you have to run the tooth of whatever to make him really effective. have you tried yokura in place of Horobi? i think he might work a little better, this would also let you take out the teeth for more removal. distress is good because it lets you get rid of things that are hard for black to get rid of once they hit the field(artifacts, enchantments). but if you don't want to run it thats fine, just make sure you run oblivion stone in the mb or sb to deal with the the random stuff people play(karma, jitte, ect...)
i have actually dropped some of my hand disruption from the md as well in favor of running damping matrix again. heres my pile of black garbage as well:tongue2:
Yokura is pretty cool, but I guess the Horobi choice is more of a meta thing. My area has been strictly aggro since around Ice Age, so lots of fast big ground creatures, with little to no removal or anything to target my horobi. More often then not, Horobis "death" thing has helped me more then its hurt me, with or without the teeth. Plus he's flying, and thats always fun.
Why the harvesters over the Kokusho? I was actually running Harvester over Kokusho for a bit, but then I started running Kokusho and realized how super neat he is.
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"All Thats Good Is Gone, I Have Tried Too Long" Rasputina - A Quitter
Yokura is pretty cool, but I guess the Horobi choice is more of a meta thing. My area has been strictly aggro since around Ice Age, so lots of fast big ground creatures, with little to no removal or anything to target my horobi. More often then not, Horobis "death" thing has helped me more then its hurt me, with or without the teeth. Plus he's flying, and thats always fun.
Why the harvesters over the Kokusho? I was actually running Harvester over Kokusho for a bit, but then I started running Kokusho and realized how super neat he is.
i run the harvester over kokusho because 1 hit from him means GG. fast games for me go turn 3 persecute, turn 4 harvester, turn 5 hideous laughter. usually thats GG for most decks. also with eradicate and cranial extraction i can make sure my opponent has very few creatures left in their deck to block with. i have consume spirit for life gain and i want to make sure my opponent doesn't recover. oh and i switched the matrixes for persecutes. i overreacted when i switched persecutes for matrixes the first time becaue i lost to MGA, but that was due to some play mistakes by me and i beat everything else 2-0.
i run the harvester over kokusho because 1 hit from him means GG. fast games for me go turn 3 persecute, turn 4 harvester, turn 5 hideous laughter. usually thats GG for most decks. also with eradicate and cranial extraction i can make sure my opponent has very few creatures left in their deck to block with. i have consume spirit for life gain and i want to make sure my opponent doesn't recover. oh and i switched the matrixes for persecutes. i overreacted when i switched persecutes for matrixes the first time becaue i lost to MGA, but that was due to some play mistakes by me and i beat everything else 2-0.
Wouldn't harvester be much more of a liability with cheap blockers (STE) / high amount of land accel (STE / Kodama) / shackles (MUC can simply take control of your harvester when you declare attack phase, then give it back to you on its own untap phase, effectively forcing you to sac a permanent every turn) / rend flesh being so prevalent in the current meta?
I highly doubt you'll get to resolve extraction / persecute vs. MUC or GU to begin with.
Kokusho is just the best package you can wish for at the moment, and as for MUC / GU, you just have to hope that you'll either extract their shackles - (highly unlikely), or get some fast beats in with turn 2 / 3 yukora (also unlikely).
Anyone think of running R/B talismans MB, a mountain or two SB, with wayfarer's baubles and boils? I think that could hose MUC enough or at least draw a couple counters at the VERY least
I have run both kokusho and harvester, extensivley testing with each. MbC is what I have been playing the last few months, and I think that it is seriously Teir 1. I choose to run Harvester over kokusho, mainly because he has incredible synergy with Death Cloud, Arena, Simulacrum, Hideous Laughter, and he comes into play a turn sooner than kokusho, which means you'll be attacking with the harvester when your opponent has just played a kokusho. If that is the case, then you'll be able to duplicant his kokusho before you attack. All around, Kokusho is a good creature, well equipped with flying and a nice leaves-play ability, but he always leaves something more to be desired when he's in play.
The problem is that he doesn't have evasion, so you better hope to have a good amount of board control if you want to do anything with it.
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just md the hideous laughters over the echonig decays, other than that it looks good.
about the harvester over kokusho with laughter, NoSB, terror, ect, ect...there are more than enough ways to make sure the harvester gets through. as someone else said he comes down a turn faster than kokusho and can end games with 1 hit on the player. heres my latest deck by the way...
hey jackal do you think the matrix should be main deck?? and dont you think there are too many chump blockers for the harvester to replace the kokusho???
hey jackal do you think the matrix should be main deck?? and dont you think there are too many chump blockers for the harvester to replace the kokusho???
yes, the matrix should be md. it stops so many problem cards that i had to move it md. and no i don't think there are to many chump blockers for the harvester. play NoSB, hideous laughter, and spot removal( terror, rend flesh, erradicate, ect...) and the harvester will get through no problem.
yeah it cost 4, if i bring it out of the sb or end up running it md i usually try and play it turn 3 followed up by a turn 4 harvester. then on turn 5 you cast hideous laughter or whatever will kill what survived the NoSB. most creatures die to hideous laughter or NoSB. for the ones that don't i run erradicate, because i don't want to have to deal with that creature again.
Main:
18 Swamps
1 Shizo, Death Storehouse
4 Chrome mox
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Barter in Blood
4 Guardian Idol
4 Kokusho the Evening Star
4 Consume Spirit
3 Distress
3 Night of Souls Betrayal
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Cranial Extraction
2 Genju of the Fens
PJ I is right, you need at least 2 more lands. also its probably not a good idea to run o-stone with the genju, NoSB, arena, and idols. when you blow it you might lose quit a bit of stuff.
If I'm not mistaken, Oblivion Stone is the only way for MBC to take care of artifacts and enchantments on the board without splashing a color.
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O-stone is a board clearer, and it will kill your moxes, idols, arena, and anything else non land. I stopped running it because it has too much of a disadvantage. I run Jens, so naturally, Naturalize was the best choice for me. I have 2 forests MD, and 3 nats in the SB. I also have access to damping matirx, but I dunno if those are necessary. Creature elimination pretty much stops MgA and equipment.
so far i've found that hand disruption along with main deck cranial have gone a long way to winning the game against mono uck control and tooth and nail.
i'm gona test 3 main deck extractions with 2wrench minds and 4distress
with word of the new blue fork, MBC's future is looking bad. casting a bosaiju'd consume for the win doesnt work when they just copy it and send it at your head.
with that most recent news. here's to 9th edition and hoping for CORRUPT or for that blue fork to be a HUGE rumor.
maybe consume and corrupt
My friend has been trying to splash Red into the mana base (Talisman of Indulgence, Urborg Volcano and 1 mountain) so that he can run Pyroclasm in the main (along with Laughter is great for the WW matchup) along with Sowing Salts (TnN) and Boil (MUC) in the board. making those changes help to improve the matchups against the 3 biggest decks in the format. Any thoughts?
O-stone is a board clearer, and it will kill your moxes, idols, arena, and anything else non land. I stopped running it because it has too much of a disadvantage. I run Jens, so naturally, Naturalize was the best choice for me. I have 2 forests MD, and 3 nats in the SB. I also have access to damping matirx, but I dunno if those are necessary. Creature elimination pretty much stops MgA and equipment.
that does sound like a good idea, would you mind posting your build?
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My friend has been trying to splash Red into the mana base (Talisman of Indulgence, Urborg Volcano and 1 mountain) so that he can run Pyroclasm in the main (along with Laughter is great for the WW matchup) along with Sowing Salts (TnN) and Boil (MUC) in the board. making those changes help to improve the matchups against the 3 biggest decks in the format. Any thoughts?
i tried it awhile back and found it not worth the trouble. run hideous laughter and night of souls' betrayal for WW, cranial extraction and persecute for TaN, and MUC will spectral shift your boil.
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hmmm... i still wouldn't go back to running Horobi even though it stop that jitte sillyness, because everyone runs the legendary lands or some way to target him. Also you have to run the tooth of whatever to make him really effective. have you tried yokura in place of Horobi? i think he might work a little better, this would also let you take out the teeth for more removal. distress is good because it lets you get rid of things that are hard for black to get rid of once they hit the field(artifacts, enchantments). but if you don't want to run it thats fine, just make sure you run oblivion stone in the mb or sb to deal with the the random stuff people play(karma, jitte, ect...)
i have actually dropped some of my hand disruption from the md as well in favor of running damping matrix again. heres my pile of black garbage as well:tongue2:
4x chrome mox
4x guardian idol
3x phyrexian arena
4x distress
4x eradicate
4x hideous laughter
4x consume spirit
3x damping matrix
2x cranial extraction
3x Yukora, the Prisoner
4x greater harvester
18 swamps
2 stalking stones
1 shizo
3x Bosejiu
2x diabolic tutor
2x mind sludge
3x persecute
3x night of soul's betrayal
2x barter in blood
agreed, that you are too removal heavy.
switching in hideous laughter is a good idea, as well as possibly barter in blood.
both can deal with trolls, and barter lets you sac kokusho if need be. even if there is lots of aggro in your area, you dont need that many. hand disruption is the best replacement. as its effects are useful against basically all decks. whereas removal is dead against most non aggro decks
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MEGAMATT
Yokura is pretty cool, but I guess the Horobi choice is more of a meta thing. My area has been strictly aggro since around Ice Age, so lots of fast big ground creatures, with little to no removal or anything to target my horobi. More often then not, Horobis "death" thing has helped me more then its hurt me, with or without the teeth. Plus he's flying, and thats always fun.
Why the harvesters over the Kokusho? I was actually running Harvester over Kokusho for a bit, but then I started running Kokusho and realized how super neat he is.
Rasputina - A Quitter
i run the harvester over kokusho because 1 hit from him means GG. fast games for me go turn 3 persecute, turn 4 harvester, turn 5 hideous laughter. usually thats GG for most decks. also with eradicate and cranial extraction i can make sure my opponent has very few creatures left in their deck to block with. i have consume spirit for life gain and i want to make sure my opponent doesn't recover. oh and i switched the matrixes for persecutes. i overreacted when i switched persecutes for matrixes the first time becaue i lost to MGA, but that was due to some play mistakes by me and i beat everything else 2-0.
Wouldn't harvester be much more of a liability with cheap blockers (STE) / high amount of land accel (STE / Kodama) / shackles (MUC can simply take control of your harvester when you declare attack phase, then give it back to you on its own untap phase, effectively forcing you to sac a permanent every turn) / rend flesh being so prevalent in the current meta?
I highly doubt you'll get to resolve extraction / persecute vs. MUC or GU to begin with.
Kokusho is just the best package you can wish for at the moment, and as for MUC / GU, you just have to hope that you'll either extract their shackles - (highly unlikely), or get some fast beats in with turn 2 / 3 yukora (also unlikely).
This makes me want to laugh, cry, and crawl under my bed and never come out again... Actually it REALLY makes me want to sing along!
'Cause I'd rather stay here
For I'm quite content their all as sane as me
Which color are you?
Non-Judge - Comprehensive Rules Delver
|| Autocard || My Latest Project ||
Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
4 mox
3 distress
3 echoing decay
3 terror
3 guardian idol
3 consume spirit
3 arena
3 death cloud
4 sloemn
3 persecute
2 yokora
4 kokusho
1 shizo
21 swamp
side
4 extraction
4 wretch mind
4 hideous laughter
3 damping matrix
please give questions, comments, suggestions
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
just md the hideous laughters over the echonig decays, other than that it looks good.
about the harvester over kokusho with laughter, NoSB, terror, ect, ect...there are more than enough ways to make sure the harvester gets through. as someone else said he comes down a turn faster than kokusho and can end games with 1 hit on the player. heres my latest deck by the way...
4x distress
4x eradicate
4x hideous laughter
4x consume spirit
3x chrome mox
3x talisman of indulgance
3x phyrexian arena
3x persecute
3x damping matrix
2x cranial extraction
4x greater harvester
2x Yukora, the Prisoner
land
18 swamps
2 stalking stones
1 shizo
_________________
3x Bosejiu
3x night of soul's betrayal
3x oblivion stone
2x cranial extraction
2x mind sludge
2x barter in blood
im thinking of changing the extractions in the md to NoSB's what does everyone think?
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
yes, the matrix should be md. it stops so many problem cards that i had to move it md. and no i don't think there are to many chump blockers for the harvester. play NoSB, hideous laughter, and spot removal( terror, rend flesh, erradicate, ect...) and the harvester will get through no problem.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Night of Souls' Betrayal
yeah it cost 4, if i bring it out of the sb or end up running it md i usually try and play it turn 3 followed up by a turn 4 harvester. then on turn 5 you cast hideous laughter or whatever will kill what survived the NoSB. most creatures die to hideous laughter or NoSB. for the ones that don't i run erradicate, because i don't want to have to deal with that creature again.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
PJ I is right, you need at least 2 more lands. also its probably not a good idea to run o-stone with the genju, NoSB, arena, and idols. when you blow it you might lose quit a bit of stuff.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Which color are you?
Non-Judge - Comprehensive Rules Delver
|| Autocard || My Latest Project ||
Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
"...FOMG THE SCROLL LOCK KEY DOES SOMETHING "
4 extraction
4 hideous laughter
4 wretch mind
3 damping matrix
i think im gonna move the hideous laughter to the MD for echoing decay
PS: how do i get an avatar???
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
try damping matrix for shackles and equipment. only enchantment worth worrying about is karma, and o-stones to slow to really help with that.
i'm gona test 3 main deck extractions with 2wrench minds and 4distress
with word of the new blue fork, MBC's future is looking bad. casting a bosaiju'd consume for the win doesnt work when they just copy it and send it at your head.
with that most recent news. here's to 9th edition and hoping for CORRUPT or for that blue fork to be a HUGE rumor.
maybe consume and corrupt
that does sound like a good idea, would you mind posting your build?
i tried it awhile back and found it not worth the trouble. run hideous laughter and night of souls' betrayal for WW, cranial extraction and persecute for TaN, and MUC will spectral shift your boil.