matrix won't touch a night of souls betrayal so the grasp is obviously better...
Nooblet. You can also play a Glorious Anthem to 'counter' the betrayal. Plus who plays that card anymore anyways?
Quote from RMS Oceanic »
Matrix DOES touch Vedelkan Shackles, Kiki-Jiki and Meloku, the three most annoying activated abilities around at the moment. I'd run both Matrix and Grasp on the SB.
Agreed. Having a Matrix online when they play a Meloku or Shackles always puts a smile on my face. I run 3 Matrix 3 Grasp SB in my WW.
Seriously, stop the flaming. You don't have to argue like this. Actually make constructed arguments and stop calling each other 'noobs'. And you really don't need to worry about Notb, mainly because no one is playing black right now... But really you should have constructed arguments none of this noob crap.
I'd maindeck the Grasp. It takes down MGA's equipment, MUC's Shackles, MBC's Arena/Night, and Red's Bridge.
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matrix won't touch a night of souls betrayal so the grasp is obviously better...
There is no way Grasp is better than Matrix. Grasp is only a 1 time use. Matrix you can keep on the board which will stop Equipments, Shackles, Meluko, Kiki, Slogger, etc.,
Quote from styx »
Oh really? Can you do that? WOW! I'm so impressed about your knowledge retard... Did you ever think about the situation where you don't draw any Anthem you moron?
Who says you will draw a Night of Souls Betrayal? Plus...
Quote from Chalupa »
And you really don't need to worry about Notb, mainly because no one is playing black right now... But really you should have constructed arguments none of this noob crap.
Agreed.
Styx: You are hopeless with your Sun Droplet SB. You obv dont know anything.
I don't remember Red running damage without running things that could easily dispose of 2-cost Artifacts. You know, like Shatter, Hearth Kami, Dismantle... Meanwhile, they have a much harder time with Enchantments. I don't know what Droplet can do against other decks, since they tend to like hitting for large amounts of damage in the long run.
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There is no way Grasp is better than Matrix. Grasp is only a 1 time use. Matrix you can keep on the board which will stop Equipments, Shackles, Meluko, Kiki, Slogger, etc.,
Right because nobody plays artifact removal. I don't know about you, but I'll take a card that can deal with my problems permanently instead of buying time.
Yeah, see, normally a competitive deck is built to deal with a competitive metagame. Not one with guys who play Lava Spike and Volcanic Hammer without some consistent damage on the side via creatures or even an Ensnaring Bridge.
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Yeah, see, normally a competitive deck is built to deal with a competitive metagame. Not one with guys who play Lava Spike and Volcanic Hammer without some consistent damage on the side via creatures or even an Ensnaring Bridge.
In other words you are saying styx WW build is not competitive and is a piece of ****. You are cool. Sun droplet is crap. If you are going to use anything go old school and use Cop: Red.
In other news..Grape was squashed by a giant chicken.
I thought I mentioned that Red and Green BOTH have very, VERY easy ways to eliminate Sun Droplet. Only Green can truly take down CoP. You know, because no red decks playartifactremoval at all. And I'm sure green decks farenobetter. But I guess that isn't a REAL argument, in your opinion. Because it's not agreeing with you.
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Everything has an answer. If you run sundroplet or whatever undoubtedly you will come across a deck with an answer. The decks can and will answer it the easiest is G/x. With the fall of affinity you see V. Zealot being played more and more and no doubt naturalizes will be, at least, in the side board. But this statement is true with any card. Obliterate is countered by time stop, Troll asectic is stopped by mass removal, so on and so forth.
The point is, arguing that one card will be stopped by another goes without saying and the search for the "Perfect" side card is near impossible.
You seem to be arguing in circles gentlemen/ladies and this is not helpful.
Questions:
@Styx: What match-ups do you bring this card in against? How does this card help you win in those match-ups? Is there a better card to use that you could test? Have you tested other cards?
@shdw pup: In the real world just because you say something does not make it true. You say you have the best build, good, prove it? Your word is meaningless with out proof. I have looked at your build and it is very, very aggressive. So what makes yours better than everone elses, post tournament and testing results, no one is going to take what you say seriously otherwise?
There are only two reactions you can have, you can respond in a positive manner or you can be negative. Personally, it does not affect me, I will never play this deck. My testing has shown that rolls to MUC preboarded. THe build that I ran was unable to go leathal by turn 5. It showed marginal success agains ponza. Plus, it is not my play style. I wish you the best of luck in testing and hope you will be able to put together the best build, whatever that maybe.
This is an argument... why shouldn't it be an argument please? tell me... i really would like to know that, Sir... After WoTC Banned like the whole Raffinity deck the metagame was very funny here... nobody really played artifact/enchantment destruction...
So nobody at all prepared for the huge wave of Shackles? The prevalence of Oblivion Stone went unnoticed? Isochron Scepter suddenly became extremely viable? I ask, did Door to Nothingness decks suddenly win the game, are Equipments basically unstoppable? Because if people ran NO artifact/enchant hate... well, your metagame's so chaotic that there'll probably be a huge influx of artifact based decks, followed by a rebalancing as people realize artifact hate is still needed.
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Does this mean you're not running equipment in your deck? Because Matrix shuts them down, too. As well as 8.5 Tails, so be sure not to run him.
This does make it look a lot more like a metagame-disruption build of WW. Is T&N/MUC really popular in your meta?
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Sounds about right. And your win? Sweep through with fliers, or dominate the board with lots and lots of weenies? In other words, Lantern Kamis et. al. or Raise the Alarm?
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That's a great idea but since orim's chant has a block mechanic and a characters name it can't be reprinted. The original version of chant though- Abeyance could be although with scepter in type2 i don't think its likely.
Skirmisher is awful...I'm not completely up on 'Competitive WW', but, it can't possibly play that guy..he's so horrible. Yeah, equipped he's great, but then, so is everything else. Similarly, Tundra Wolves is also jank..First Strike is basically useless on a 1/1 body. I could almost see Tundra Wolves..at least it just costs :symw:. But skirmisher? 3 mana isn't worth it for that guy at all..not in WW. Hell, 3 mana is like the top of the curve for that deck..Anthem only costs 3 mana. Anyway, really, that should be enough WW talk in the MUC thread.
Are you crazy? Skirmisher with Jitte is the most insane thing to ever perpetuate in this format. 3 Swings (2 or even 1 is the Jutte is preloaded) Ends the game. Both the swords go nicely with it, as well.
Tundra wolves is the obvious play over Savanah Lions. It goes through any 1-toughness creature in the format (of which there are plenty) and lives to tell the tale, and with a Sword it's night-unkillable in combat.
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Tundra Wolves gets the call because having Lions die to STE's and then get stack tricked sucks a lot, plus they're much better with equipment then lions could hope to be.
I never really though about skirmisher or how Jitte works with double strike. Since the first "first strike" deals damage first, does it get two counters, which you can use to save for the second strike? If so then yeah that is pretty nuts.
With Skirmisher and a Jitte,
Two swings and its game,
this is how
1) Skirmisher equiped with Jitte, attack (Opponent's life = 20)
a) First Strike damage, Jitte has 2 counters (life 19)
b) Normal combat damage, Jitte has 4 counters (life 18)
2) Next turn, remove all counters to make Skirmisher a 9/9, attack again
a) FS Damage, Jitte gains 2 counters (life 9)
b) Remove 2 counters, Skirmisher is a 13/13
b) Normal Combat damage, Jitte gains 2 counters (life -4)
Same thing if Skirmisher is equiped with Sword of Fire and Ice
1) Attack with 3/3 Skrimisher (life 20)
a) FS damage, (life 17)
b) sword triggers, target opponent (life 15)
c) Normal combat damage (life 12)
d) sword triggers, target opponent (life 10)
Repeat
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
What? If the Skirmisher were 2/1 for 1WW, I'd agree, it'd be an amazing card. As it is, it's a 1/1, and about as good as a Leonin Skyhunter that costs 1 more to play until you break out some equipment.
If you think paying 1 for 1 point of first strike damage is worth it, go right ahead. Meanwhile, the WW decks who play Damping Matrix over equipment will notice the trouble when your equipment can't be equipped.
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Agreed. Having a Matrix online when they play a Meloku or Shackles always puts a smile on my face. I run 3 Matrix 3 Grasp SB in my WW.
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Who says you will draw a Night of Souls Betrayal? Plus...
Agreed.
Styx: You are hopeless with your Sun Droplet SB. You obv dont know anything.
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Right because nobody plays artifact removal. I don't know about you, but I'll take a card that can deal with my problems permanently instead of buying time.
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In other news..Grape was squashed by a giant chicken.
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The point is, arguing that one card will be stopped by another goes without saying and the search for the "Perfect" side card is near impossible.
You seem to be arguing in circles gentlemen/ladies and this is not helpful.
Questions:
@Styx: What match-ups do you bring this card in against? How does this card help you win in those match-ups? Is there a better card to use that you could test? Have you tested other cards?
@shdw pup: In the real world just because you say something does not make it true. You say you have the best build, good, prove it? Your word is meaningless with out proof. I have looked at your build and it is very, very aggressive. So what makes yours better than everone elses, post tournament and testing results, no one is going to take what you say seriously otherwise?
There are only two reactions you can have, you can respond in a positive manner or you can be negative. Personally, it does not affect me, I will never play this deck. My testing has shown that rolls to MUC preboarded. THe build that I ran was unable to go leathal by turn 5. It showed marginal success agains ponza. Plus, it is not my play style. I wish you the best of luck in testing and hope you will be able to put together the best build, whatever that maybe.
What do you think about what has been developing over there?
- Lack of common sense is like the common flu.
Helping unknown people and getting flame by them.
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So nobody at all prepared for the huge wave of Shackles? The prevalence of Oblivion Stone went unnoticed? Isochron Scepter suddenly became extremely viable? I ask, did Door to Nothingness decks suddenly win the game, are Equipments basically unstoppable? Because if people ran NO artifact/enchant hate... well, your metagame's so chaotic that there'll probably be a huge influx of artifact based decks, followed by a rebalancing as people realize artifact hate is still needed.
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My worst matchup is TnN. Obv Stone + Trisk kills me.
So I have been playing 3 damping matrix main with 4 Anthem and 4 Roar of Kha. My side has another matrix and 4 choker to fight TnN.
My experience with damping is being very good. Stop OBV stones, stop shackles, stop meloku, stop ARC-SLOGGER, equipament from other players and etc.
Ive been very happy the way the deck is.
Just my experience.
This does make it look a lot more like a metagame-disruption build of WW. Is T&N/MUC really popular in your meta?
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2 8.5 tails on side only
4 Glorious Anthem
4 Savannah Lions
4 Suntail Hawk
3 Damping Matrix
4 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Roar of the Kha
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Hokori, Dust Drinker
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Kami of Ancient Law
4 Lantern Kami
4 Jinxed Choker
2 Auriok Champion
2 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
3 Otherworldly Journey
3 Terashi's Grasp
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What card can WW hope to have printed in Saviors to absolutely crush all doubts of its capability.
Sorcery
Destroy all lands.
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Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
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Are you crazy? Skirmisher with Jitte is the most insane thing to ever perpetuate in this format. 3 Swings (2 or even 1 is the Jutte is preloaded) Ends the game. Both the swords go nicely with it, as well.
Tundra wolves is the obvious play over Savanah Lions. It goes through any 1-toughness creature in the format (of which there are plenty) and lives to tell the tale, and with a Sword it's night-unkillable in combat.
I never really though about skirmisher or how Jitte works with double strike. Since the first "first strike" deals damage first, does it get two counters, which you can use to save for the second strike? If so then yeah that is pretty nuts.
Two swings and its game,
this is how
1) Skirmisher equiped with Jitte, attack (Opponent's life = 20)
a) First Strike damage, Jitte has 2 counters (life 19)
b) Normal combat damage, Jitte has 4 counters (life 18)
2) Next turn, remove all counters to make Skirmisher a 9/9, attack again
a) FS Damage, Jitte gains 2 counters (life 9)
b) Remove 2 counters, Skirmisher is a 13/13
b) Normal Combat damage, Jitte gains 2 counters (life -4)
Same thing if Skirmisher is equiped with Sword of Fire and Ice
1) Attack with 3/3 Skrimisher (life 20)
a) FS damage, (life 17)
b) sword triggers, target opponent (life 15)
c) Normal combat damage (life 12)
d) sword triggers, target opponent (life 10)
Repeat
Even unequipped, it's the not-so-shabby deal of a 2/1 Flying Half-first strike, which isn't terrbile.
If you think paying 1 for 1 point of first strike damage is worth it, go right ahead. Meanwhile, the WW decks who play Damping Matrix over equipment will notice the trouble when your equipment can't be equipped.
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