Indeed, as Mike stated, we accidentally already have a card in the board for that match.
On Underpants deck....
What stands out to me is the missing 4th Beacon. I also don't like using the Sadbots or Meloku's. Wood Elves seem to be the better choice, and when I ran the set-up with Meloku I still prefered the Elves.
In regards to PinPin, it's a suprisingly good deck (I've built my own to try it out)... the secret tech we have is Cranial Extraction. Call Gifts or Witness and they just become a random pile, lol.
yes extraction is the best tool againt them however it takes 2 extraction to leave them into" random pile" mode and even then etched oracle and bringer will partialy solve the problem drawing like hell.
Also its random pile condition (without witness and gift) is not as random as you might think, they have 3-4 wrath effects, 2-3 art removal 2-3 creature removal, like runnning 1 naturalize, 1 wear away, 1 viridian shaman and 1 oxidize instead of 4 oxidize
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Yeah, but taking out the gifts is reducing their consistency by a huge percentage. Then taking out the witnesses guarantees they can't get stuff back as well. My PinPin deck uses a single Crystal Shard to eternally plow the opponent under or use cranial extraction repeatedly. Without witness, one of my main ways of winning the game goes down the tubes, and this deck has plenty of ammo to fight those oracles and bringers toe to toe.
And I don't know about what you've tested against... but after two cranial extractions I pretty much become a pile, drawing random stuff that isn't particularly relevant. It all depends I guess.
You guys should side in Titan for that matchup with Pinhead. With the accel you run, there's no question that you should be able to hardcast it around turn 5 a reasonable amount of the time. Will this matter? I don't know. Just a stupid idea I thought to try.
If they cast Wrath of God, or eliminate your guys one by one, Rude Awakening is a nice surprise finisher when they think they've stabilized.
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And who plays Wrath? Rude is horrible in this deck...I would much rather be playing Plow, by like a thousand times more...
You just don't need rude to win the game for you, Troll and Beacon alone do it good enough, not to mention all the other possible finisher in the deck.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
I don't believe Rude Awakening is worth the spot in the deck. Plow Unders deserves that spot over the Rudes. I also think that Meloku would be better than Awakening, it can help steal games, but also allows you to hold back opposing creatures as well.
I don't think Rude is good either... I've tried it out and I haven't been impressed. More often than not, it's sitting in my hand waiting for a good moment, and then something else swings the game in my favor or completely the other way which makes Rude not an option. There are better things to use IMO.
Rude Awakening is not good in this deck, most of the time you even have 8 mana to actually cast it, and by then it would be a win more card, wich you don't need at all. I don't see why this worked its way inbto discussion but it won't help you vs anything.
I tried Rude Awakening a while back and was not impressed.
What I've been trying recently is a creature-heavy build with Aether Vial main. It helps a lot against MUC and U/G. This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure this is the list:
Cranial Extraction is in the board, which explains the Swamp.
Vialing out things like Shaman and Witness is very good. I decided to add Shamans because of the preponderance of Shackles, Jittes, Swords, etc. I've never once had to target my own artifacts just to get a beater on the field. Meloku is still a problem for the deck, and I've actually considered adding something like Rend Flesh to the maindeck to deal with him.
BTW, Iwamori has been dubbed "Bob" by a friend of mine who also plays this deck. A pity that won't autocard.
I have taken a 5-color approach with this deck, and I'm not having a single problem with MUC. My only real problem that I'm finding is the Tooth and Nail Matchup.
Xero_FX, i would be intrested in seeing your list, what do you mean by 5 colors, are your running like 1 plains for worship, 1 swamp for Extraction, stuff like that? It just seems that would be the only possible way to play the deck 5 colors.
Cause for me just running the Extractions seems to be enough, i was debating wether i wanted to splash for Worship.
Usually I would have no problem sharing my list, but my playtest group has it under lock and key, though your speculation hits it on the head. I don't splash for worship though, but I am planning on testing it pretty soon.
Well whats the blue for thats all i am really wanted to know, i would guess your list is simular to the normal MGB just with a few twists and turns. I have tried a lot of diffrent splashes (most in sidebored) for this deck. Worships are awsome and Extractions are still there, showing their importance. I was thinking of boils/Blood moons, but the MUC match-up is allready pretty good along with most others, except the tooth match-up, but i fell this deck is losing a lot of popularity.
Well whats the blue for thats all i am really wanted to know, i would guess your list is simular to the normal MGB just with a few twists and turns. I have tried a lot of diffrent splashes (most in sidebored) for this deck. Worships are awsome and Extractions are still there, showing their importance. I was thinking of boils/Blood moons, but the MUC match-up is allready pretty good along with most others, except the tooth match-up, but i fell this deck is losing a lot of popularity.
The blue splash is mainly for Meloku. He is great when you need to chump a Kokusho or most of WW. I do splash for Boil, but am finding it to be useless as I usually win the match without them by dropping a steaming Kodama and a couple of trolls under their counters.
I think the reason that people's interest in this deck is dying because they are going about this deck the wrong way.
Interesting that you are actually splashing for each color. What I don't think is necessary is splashing for white. The best you get IMO, is Worship, which MUC and TNN can handle. Worship seems to only sound good in the WW matches and in Mirror matches, but even then WW should have Terashi's Grasp after board to nail your equipment which can also take out Worship and Green has Naturalize/Viridian Zealot. Meloku just seems to be more effective than Worship. A good idea for this game plan is Engineered Explosives which I really been wanting to test but haven't had the chance to do yet.
The only problem I can see with 4 of every different color plus Forests is that it can seriously disrupt you in the early game, like when you need to drop a Zeolot or whatnot. It also makes Beacon pretty sucky, and it makes you rely on excel a lot more. I am guessing you are running a few copies if Reach?
I have tried just about every color, and am currently testing white (not for Worship, but for Abunas, to protect my Swords in the Sligh matchup). Black seems to do the best, simply because we don't need to worry about naything else other than TaN. MGA beats MUC, WW, and all the other control variants pretty soundly. The only problem we have is TaN, and Sligh a little after that.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
what is good for fighting pin pin? I just lost quote miserably to it :/
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Cranial Extraction is a good way to stop them, but Pin Pin isn't a very hard match-up for me. Espically cause you wont see them in latter rounds, also Plow Unders wreck them as well.
Cranial Extraction is a good way to stop them, but Pin Pin isn't a very hard match-up for me. Espically cause you wont see them in latter rounds, also Plow Unders wreck them as well.
thats not quite right: plow doesnt hurt them as much as it would hurt other control decks, since silver bullets can draw a lot and have reach/sakura for shuffle effects. Extraction is a good tool but only if it doesnt get countered and if they dont extract you first.
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Interesting that you are actually splashing for each color. What I don't think is necessary is splashing for white. The best you get IMO, is Worship, which MUC and TNN can handle. Worship seems to only sound good in the WW matches and in Mirror matches, but even then WW should have Terashi's Grasp after board to nail your equipment which can also take out Worship and Green has Naturalize/Viridian Zealot.
I'm not playing worship, after a little thought last night, I decided not even to test it, for the reasons I see you stated above.
Quote from Incinerated »
Meloku just seems to be more effective than Worship. A good idea for this game plan is Engineered Explosives which I really been wanting to test but haven't had the chance to do yet.
Explosives is amazing, that is all.
Quote from {G}PiLeDrIvEr »
The only problem I can see with 4 of every different color plus Forests is that it can seriously disrupt you in the early game, like when you need to drop a Zeolot or whatnot.
1. I don't run 4 of every color.
2. Zealot is horrible if thats your choice of arti/enchantment destruction.
Quote from {G}PiLeDrIvEr »
It also makes Beacon pretty sucky, and it makes you rely on excel a lot more. I am guessing you are running a few copies if Reach?
Lol@Beacon
Yeah, I play reach.
Quote from {G}Piledriver »
I have tried just about every color, and am currently testing white (not for Worship, but for Abunas, to protect my Swords in the Sligh matchup). Black seems to do the best, simply because we don't need to worry about naything else other than TaN. MGA beats MUC, WW, and all the other control variants pretty soundly. The only problem we have is TaN, and Sligh a little after that.
Abunas is really, really, really slow. I have never had a problem with sligh in any way.
wasnt the deck, it was the player and the version. pin-pin behaves solidly against pretty much everything with the right build, a good player, and no random mulligans.
"Pin-Pin"....could there be a worse name for a deck.
Xero FX, how is Zealot horrible for artifact/enchantment removal? it provides a body to swing with in times when the destruction is not needed which makes it an easy candidate for the maindeck. Not to mention the potential to 2 for 1 your opponent. I'm not sure how you can think Beacon is funny.
I still think that with Cranial Extractions and Plows that Gifts Ungiven style decks shouldn't be too much trouble.
I go with Incinerated on this, how can you possibely veiw Zealot as a horrible card, it fits nicely with the deck curve, and it gives you a natrualize on a creature not bad eh? Also it is very important vs. WW and MUC, wich is another reason for running it.
Also Pin-Pin has no game vs. MGB, sure it can pull of wins here and there but 1 extraction is GG for them. Also Plow Under is amazing vs PinPin, it makes them have to search and waste there vital accel. And MGB can just take over after a Plow Under, by playing a 2nd one or Witness's wich is just icing on the cake.
Rude seems significantly too slow to really merit running in this deck..Rude is really a control-deck finishing tool, and this really isn't a control deck..at all..nor could it ever really benefit from the mana accelerant aspect of Rude.
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On Underpants deck....
What stands out to me is the missing 4th Beacon. I also don't like using the Sadbots or Meloku's. Wood Elves seem to be the better choice, and when I ran the set-up with Meloku I still prefered the Elves.
yes extraction is the best tool againt them however it takes 2 extraction to leave them into" random pile" mode and even then etched oracle and bringer will partialy solve the problem drawing like hell.
Also its random pile condition (without witness and gift) is not as random as you might think, they have 3-4 wrath effects, 2-3 art removal 2-3 creature removal, like runnning 1 naturalize, 1 wear away, 1 viridian shaman and 1 oxidize instead of 4 oxidize
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:spirit2:
And I don't know about what you've tested against... but after two cranial extractions I pretty much become a pile, drawing random stuff that isn't particularly relevant. It all depends I guess.
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Random quote of the last time I updated my sig:
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You just don't need rude to win the game for you, Troll and Beacon alone do it good enough, not to mention all the other possible finisher in the deck.
What I've been trying recently is a creature-heavy build with Aether Vial main. It helps a lot against MUC and U/G. This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure this is the list:
4 Viridian Zealot
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Troll Ascetic
3 Eternal Witness
3 Viridian Shaman
2 Fangren Firstborn
2 Iwamori of the Open Fist
2 Kodama of the North Tree
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Beacon of Creation
21 Forest
1 Swamp
Cranial Extraction is in the board, which explains the Swamp.
Vialing out things like Shaman and Witness is very good. I decided to add Shamans because of the preponderance of Shackles, Jittes, Swords, etc. I've never once had to target my own artifacts just to get a beater on the field. Meloku is still a problem for the deck, and I've actually considered adding something like Rend Flesh to the maindeck to deal with him.
BTW, Iwamori has been dubbed "Bob" by a friend of mine who also plays this deck. A pity that won't autocard.
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I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Cause for me just running the Extractions seems to be enough, i was debating wether i wanted to splash for Worship.
The blue splash is mainly for Meloku. He is great when you need to chump a Kokusho or most of WW. I do splash for Boil, but am finding it to be useless as I usually win the match without them by dropping a steaming Kodama and a couple of trolls under their counters.
I think the reason that people's interest in this deck is dying because they are going about this deck the wrong way.
I have tried just about every color, and am currently testing white (not for Worship, but for Abunas, to protect my Swords in the Sligh matchup). Black seems to do the best, simply because we don't need to worry about naything else other than TaN. MGA beats MUC, WW, and all the other control variants pretty soundly. The only problem we have is TaN, and Sligh a little after that.
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thats not quite right: plow doesnt hurt them as much as it would hurt other control decks, since silver bullets can draw a lot and have reach/sakura for shuffle effects. Extraction is a good tool but only if it doesnt get countered and if they dont extract you first.
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I'm not playing worship, after a little thought last night, I decided not even to test it, for the reasons I see you stated above.
Explosives is amazing, that is all.
1. I don't run 4 of every color.
2. Zealot is horrible if thats your choice of arti/enchantment destruction.
Lol@Beacon
Yeah, I play reach.
Abunas is really, really, really slow. I have never had a problem with sligh in any way.
wasnt the deck, it was the player and the version. pin-pin behaves solidly against pretty much everything with the right build, a good player, and no random mulligans.
Xero FX, how is Zealot horrible for artifact/enchantment removal? it provides a body to swing with in times when the destruction is not needed which makes it an easy candidate for the maindeck. Not to mention the potential to 2 for 1 your opponent. I'm not sure how you can think Beacon is funny.
I still think that with Cranial Extractions and Plows that Gifts Ungiven style decks shouldn't be too much trouble.
Also Pin-Pin has no game vs. MGB, sure it can pull of wins here and there but 1 extraction is GG for them. Also Plow Under is amazing vs PinPin, it makes them have to search and waste there vital accel. And MGB can just take over after a Plow Under, by playing a 2nd one or Witness's wich is just icing on the cake.