MTG Salvation

Against MUC or other U based control, you'll be needing troll - even more so because barter and laughter are relatively worthless against MUC. As for right now, I'll be running the control version... at least until underpants "unleahes" his new version, which I'm very interested to see.

hey everyone here is my deck. let me know what you guys think

4 elder
4 decay
3 terror
4 troll ascetic
4 witness
3 death cloud
3 kodamas reach
3 jens
4 plow under
4 kokusho
2 rude awakening

land

12 forest
8 swamp
1 shizo
1 okina

side board

4 extraction
4 persecute
4 naturalize
3 choke

the only thing i might change is the terror to rend flesh. but other than that this deck rocks. id love to see your build

Actually I really believe that dark banishiing is currently the better card verses rend flesh mainly because of all of the genjus that are running around.

Dark Banishing kills everything of relevance that Rend Flesh or Rend Spirit kill (though I would not recommend using Rend Spirit), and it also has "no regeneration" stuck on there to make it all the better choice.

The thing is, aside from Kokusho and maybe Shortfang, there are no good black creatures to kill. Disciple of the Vault is history, so that puts Banishing over the top for me. Rend Flesh becomes very lacking when you go up against anything that uses genjus or non-kokusho dragons. Those are all more imminent threats than shortfang, which can easily be decayed.

Well i fell Terror is the right choice, there isn't any black creatures or artifact creatures to worry about other then Kokusho right now, wich isn't even played that much right now. Terror is one mana cheaper also, against tooth and nail, your not going to want to kill there Titans anyways, you would rather chump block them, and if they did become a problem you should have Natralize main anyways.

I would check the Londes article today for a newer BG build, i really felt this article was right on where BG should go as in main deck.

http://londes.com/article.php?id=428

If you're running Consume Spirit, then I would say you have bigger concerns than trying to figure out whether banishing is better than rend.

Yeah, I saw that article. Trying to abuse cloud may be the best solution these days, since lately my versions have been more focused on other things. There are two routes really - one that focuses on DC and one that uses it as a card to bail you out of bad positions or act as a finisher. Lately, it seems that the latter just doesn't work right for me. There's something wrong with the feel. However, the Londes deck doesn't sell for me completely. Viridian Shaman seem like a better choice than Naturalize , and I would like to see some copies of Plow Under md. We should try and work with that list, or at least base future lists around some of the key elements that one has.

I don't really care for the Shamans, there just going to die in the long run, also Natralize is a instant. I agree that Plow unders should be main for the simple fact its one of the best cards in standard.

Also maybe playtesting the 4 kokushos and 2 Kodama's like he sugested is also the right way to go. All in All this deck needs a lot of work and playtesting, befor its considered a top deck again, and im willing to do that.

the deck looks ok but there are cards that are better than some of the cards in your deck. it has a good idea where there is mass removal but i can see more potential. i say you can splash with green or keep mbc.

Creatures

4x Kokusho, The Evening Star
4x Eternal Witness
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Birds of Paridace
4x Troll Astetic

Spells
Chrome Mox 4x
Echoing Decay 4x
Death Cloud 3x
Sword of Fire and Ice 3x
Kodama's Reach 4x

Lands
Swamp 6x
Forest 8x
Okina 1x
Shizo 1x
City of Brass 4x


SB:
Nezumi Shortfang 4x
Isao 2x
Boseiju, Who Shelters All 2x
Plow Under 4x
Choke 3x



you can choose to play other stuff, but be my guest if anyone has a comment on this deck.

why replace echoing decay, are you not worry about rude awakening anymore??

While I believe that there need to be a lot of improvements to the above deck, Rude Awakening is solved by Hideous Laughter in the sideboard.

Unless your opponent knows you aren't running decay, they will probably side out Rude, or at least not board them in (if they are competent). The risk of running rude against a based deck is too great. Besides, the only decks that will probably access it now are the mirror (which I don't really advise), UG Control (which is probably dwindling in numbers since MUC hit the scene), and maybe MGA or T&N. Neither of those last two actually need Rude to beat you, so I doubt you'll see them run it. Also, just because you already have one 2cc removal spell is not a decent reason to cut another just to make room for one that costs 3cc. Decay is simply too versatile to get rid of, and pretty much forces your opponent out of Rude as I explained above.

Quote from Jedi Mind Trix »

Against MUC or other U based control, you'll be needing troll - even more so because barter and laughter are relatively worthless against MUC. As for right now, I'll be running the control version... at least until underpants "unleahes" his new version, which I'm very interested to see.

Ummm....I didn't discover any new tech or anything (damn shame -- Reap and Sow didn't work out, or else I would have). I just have been researching and developing a different idea during my spare time that can give BG players a better game one and game two v. MUC and its cousin UG.


Doing this, I first gathered several BG decks that have been used lately at FNMs and other events. A lot had some small differences such as different sideboards or two of this card and three of that card. The following three decks are basically the "average" of these decks. I have left out sideboards intentionally because of their meta-dependence. Each deck has their own merits and deficiencies. I apologize ahead in case someone here has posted the exact deck (or very close to it).


Deck One:


You can see the efficiency that this deck has...it's streamlined. It's beautiful. No 2 or 1-ofs in the creatures or spell set. It simply gets the job done. Most of the time the sideboards considered of four Cranial Extraction, four Naturalize, four Troll Ascetics, and three Persecutes. There were some off-beat boards too with cards like Shortfang, Wear Away (?), even Ensnaring Bridge. A Quash can really ruin this deck's day though.


Deck Two:


This deck while not as smooth count-wise as Deck One, it has another win condition in R.A., a few more creatures with which to do combat and perhaps an offbeat, but effective, choice in Shaman. It serves double duty as a blocker and a Shackles killer. This deck runs lots of different cards that MUC has to counter giving Shaman a better chance to strike. Again, the sideboards were mostly Cranials, Trolls, and Naturalizes. Some had Rend Flesh/Dark Banishing. One had an extra Rude and an additional Persecute.


Deck Three:


I gotta be honest. This is my favorite of the three. It has the control features that I like plus few creatures. To me, a control deck shouldn't have a lot of creatures. It has plenty of elimination for almost any situation. IT just tries to blow out the opponents position to set up for Kokusho. It also has efficient continous card-drawing in Arena. IMO, Arena is the best card-drawing available to BG right now. Night's Whisper is second best (but not to start an argument...to me if Arena is #1, Whisper is 1a).


Each of these decks were based on info BEFORE the entire meta around here became MUC-based. I am also anticipating MUC to be the most popular deck in the upcoming regionals. Therefore I have decided to temper the deck to beat MUC first and foremost. If I get burned by a rogue build, so be it.





By no means is this deck perfect. I'm still going to tweak it. Plow Under is in the sideboard because it isn't effective against MUC, it's more effective against TaN. It's a little more effective against UG, but not by much. KoNT is freaking awesome. I almost maindecked it, but the rest of the deck is solid. Scryings are in the board to help me find the maindecked BWSA even sooner.

MUC runs very few creatures, so a single resolved Terror would be HUGE. Decay takes care of Meloku tokens left and right. Jens' double purpose let's him find a way into the deck.


See, sorry if this disappoints. I made it sound like I had discovered some kind of uber-tech and it turns out to be an overhaul of the deck. So far this has worked, but I'll find out more this upcoming weekend. Testing so far has been much better than it had been with older versions.


Bash and critique...............


NOW.

why are u not running choke againt MUC?? at least is someway of hate if played with bosejui should end the game at least that i think

Everyone that plays MUC against me plays Spectral Shift, so Choke wasn't a viable option to me. If they didn't play that, then yes, I probably would play Choke.

Quote from Mark Rosewater »

Against MUC, however, he is insane when flipped. Beats for 4 per turn is a good clock when you can get it out early. It his his flipped ability that is truly treacherous though. You can easily cycle 187 creatures through your graveyard.

Anyway, in my testing, I have found that a more aggro-oriented build makes you more resilient to control strategies.

Not to throw a wrench into your happy ranting about graverobber, he's an exceptionally bad card you can play vs. MUC.

Once it hits the board, MUC players will simply hold out on creatures - even the turbo Magpie versions, which are vastly inferior to the total control MUC whose creatures base consists only of meloku and man lands - and shackle it to use it as a chump blocker. They can afford to do this because you've wasted a turn playing a creature that's neither threatening nor provide you with the tempo advantage.

Even if you get him flipped, 4 island is not a hard task for MUC to accomplish.

Underpants: it isn't the super-secret-tech I was hoping for, but the lists look pretty solid. I'll try building the variants and testing for myself. Hopefully a suitable SB can be developed for each to address any inherent weaknesses. Kudos

I've been considering a more aggro-control version than the more controllish B/G builds I commonly see. Here's what I came up with as a first draft:



I think I'd like to fir 2-3 Viridian Shamans in the maindeck, but I'm not sure where.

Thoughts? Am I just barking up the wrong tree with this idea?