For this to be a "sligh" deck, you need more burn spells to ensure that your creatures get thru. The equipment, while allowing you to dome your opp. for more, does not enable your creatures to get thru to dome or even survive combat in certain situations. Also, if you are going to run 11 artifacts, maybe use some artifact lands and you could utilize shrapnel blast in a reasonably effective manner. I would also adjust your mana-curve. The theory behind sligh is not only to remove your opp. creatures and dome him with yours, but to get the most out of your mana every turn. I think it's like 10-12 1 drops, 8-10 2 drops, 6-8 3's, and 2-3 4's. When you apply those theoris in whole to your deck, you will find it falls well short of the original model. As far as your post BoK build that is LD heavy, I wouldn't mix archetypes like that too much. My experience with that has been rather disastrous insofar as I wind up with a deck that lacks focus and direction.
Note: This post pertains to a list posted while T2Sux's account had been hacked... The first post was removed, but I left the thread in tact.
You do realize that you only have 13 sources of red mana right? That is not enough to be able to play the firewalker on turn two whenever you have it.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Here is somethingI made, it has been solid in the 5 matches I have played it against, U/G mostly. Obv more testing needs to be done but the preliminary results are looking good, that and the sb is down right awful.
Well I think it is fairly common knowledge now that red would gain constructed popularity. I recall having the conversation with ButtesBlue just the other day and we came to the same conclusion, popular but not necessarily good.
Even before an entire betrayers spoiler came out alot of people had been recently posting on the subject of a viable Sligh or RDW. Some of these variants posted mediocre results in tournament play with the numbers being out of 7 top 8ed champs deck 2 won, a 35% winning percentage. Even still the card pool was fairly large and there were quite a different number of ways to construct something of this sort.
In the end I went back to the decks root, DeadGuy Red in 1998. For those who dont recall;
Cheap guys, efficient burn I think pretty much sums it up. Im not about to play Isochron Scepter so finding an eve remotely similair scroll effect is out of the question. Wasteland would aslo be effective right now but again no way are we getting that back. The mana curve tops out at 3, and even though that is the case I dont think vulshok sorcerer would be a good replacement for Fireslinger. I cant for the life of me recall with who, but in quite a bite of depth we talked about how right now in the environment you need the most bang for your buck and the sorcerer just isnt optimal under that theory.
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
3 Viashino Sandstalker
4 Genju of the Spires
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Hearth Kami
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Frostling
Sandstalker is in the 3 slot which originally thought might be better suited as Pulse of the Forge but it is has good synergy with goblin cohort. Vintage dead guy ran 13 burn spells and I run 12, and really in total they will probably deal around the same average amount of burn damage per game. I'll try out pulse in the slot as well though.
why not add vulshok sorcerer?? she can take the blockers for the genju to go to the head.
also i dont like shrapnel blast since running artifacts make you a lot more vulnerable to extra art removal
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ummm shrapnel blast is too good not to play because you fear oxidize or viridian shaman. Sorcerer is 1/1 for 1RR, I think pulse, or sandstalker are simply better cards fro the slot.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
To keep things from getting cluttered, it was merged with the "RDW" thread from a day or two ago... I set the title as "Red Aggro", but if you all eventually decide on an archetype name, I can change it
Ah blast it, I had such a good reply typed up, but ButteBlues moved it while I was typing it so it got lost so I'll make this short
This all is directed at the Dead Guy Red btw
After states I have not really played much magic at all and got rid of almost all my cards, but with BOK being released and Reg coming up, I'm back into the game and I've been hoping a nice red sligh deck would come out of BOK.
I'm not sure about the Genju, with all the Elders and such walking around I'm not sure if it is worth four sloths. It recurs as well. With all the dumb creatures that have other purposes besides blocking (witness, tribe elder) I dont know if I would run a full compliment of the enchantment.
That's actually my only querk with the deck from the few games I 've played with it
-Crimson
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"I can PASS by the weight room, SMELL the iron inside, and instantly begin to GROW"
~MuSlIn Da MoSt OuT Of LiFe~
sure it happens and genju will get blocked by elder, but against everything he is very solid. Plus I dont ever really mind tradina a frostling for a sakura to clear the way. What would you suggest instead, I can think of much that would replace it.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
I know this is a standard forum, but my block build is very much like deadguy red. I am looking for a replacement for Akki Blizzard herder/something to force my opponents to block him.
4 Frostling
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Akki Avalanchers
4 Akki Radier
3 Akki Blizzard Herder
1 Hearth Kami
3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
4 Glacial Ray
2 Torrent of Stone
4 Crack the Earth
3 Shuko
1 Yamabushi's Flame
19 Mountain
4 God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
I'm not running more flames because with all of the land sac, it's hard to keep 3 lands in play.
The best Aggro-Red deck is Burning Bridges. If you don't know here is what it does. The point of the deck is to get out an Ensnaring Bridge and keep as few cards in hand as possible. The deck runs a lot of burn spells and removal but fewer creatures than mono-red beats and ponza. Usually the only creatures it runs are Slith Firewalkers and Arc-Sloggers. It is not as reliable as Ponza but when it gets moving is a lot harder to disrupt because you generally can't attack and you are getting pounded with burn spells like Magma Jet, Pulse of the Forge and recently added to the deck Lava Spike.
Never ever ever put 4 Zo-Zu main deck. No splitters either. And why frostling when you can have Pain Kami. And get rid of citadels and add some more mana than 16 mountains and moxen. I thought this was the competie forum. Listen to my sig, I know red and black.
Well I cant really say much my meta is Kiki-Control and WW so where I play Burning Bridges works well. Sry I guess from now on I should think in general not just where I play.
4 Chrome Mox
4 Magma Jet
3 Shrapnel Blast
4 Electrostatic Bolt
4 Barbed Lightning
4 Pulse of the Forge
4 Damping Matrix
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Granulate
1 Detonate
4 Sowing Salt
4 Ishi-Ishi, Akki Crackshot
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
Too RDW...RDW didn't make it in block for a reason. Being ridiculously anti-Ravager never really works. Putting 4 Damping Matrix maindeck does what? Making the Ravager matchup MAYBE 10% better. That also makes it a completely dead draw possibility if you look at any other matchup. With Elder it doesn't work because they've already popped it by then, meaning you take the pork pony ride from Darksteel Colossus the first game if you aren't careful (and by careful I mean have Zo-Zu in your starting hand). In U/G, it basically means you're gonna have problems if you draw it, because you need card for card the best stuff you have against them. But yeah, I love the version compared to Dead Guy Red, I haven't tested it yet, but on paper it seems to be the best among them.
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"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
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through continued testing my version, like oldschool Deadguy, is proving to be very solid. Has a very good matchup against U/G, basically shackles have no viable target, ZoZu eats them game 2, and the fact that they can recurr oxidize after oxidize doesnt really hurt all that much. Here is an updated list;
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
3 Pulse of the Forge
4 Genju of the Spires
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Hearth Kami
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Frostling
Some people have told me that Hearth Kami can come out and go to the board, even a few people said to go with spark elemental (granted I would never play spark elemental the fact that this slot has been up reconsideration I am pretty depesperate) perhaps Raging Goblin, but I hardly see how he is better than Kami.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
okay, so i was thinking, with all of the crazy red creatures we're getting these days, would a sligh deck be competitive? so i designed one...here's what i have so far:
Ive just never been a huge fan of akki avalanchers. He would be good in like some G/R that had the land to feed his ability but really what red deck runs enough mana to make him more useful than even lava spike. Some games he might sneak in those extra few points but more often than not I wouldnt really want him.
When I saw cohort I was thinking he would fit perfectly into aggrored, thus far he hasnt disappointed. Turn 1 cohort, Turn 2 Firewalker is a very solid way to open the game up. I cant recall many times in the testing I have done with the deck (over 40 matches) when I couldnt attack with my cohort, the creature base seems solid enough and numerically sound to make this guy playable.
Kami isnt going anywhere, I dont know what I was thinking. When someone said I should play goblin raider over Kami I realized what needed to go and what needed to stay.
You bring up an interesting point, cut nexi and add more threats. I had thought this very same thing just this morning. Only issue I have is that it would def need to be a 1 or 2 casting burn spell and can I still sufficiently support shrapnel blast. Another thing is that I NEVER want to mulligan with this deck, I need all the cards I can get. If by taking out nexus do I jeopardize a solid starting hand containing enough land to support my opening plays? I dont know. Ill need to run the numbers and test a bit. If I were to do that I would probably add electrostatic bolt to the main, clear the way for genju and improve results against affinity.
Arc-Slogger, as good as he is, costs too much to play.
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Quote from Miscalcul8edRisk »
In IBTG we trust
Quote from Veserius »
Hats off to [BB18 & IBTG], you've found something that may be THE deck to beat post rotation.
The main problem I see with this deck (not to be harsh) is this: Can you outrace ravager? Can you outhate Ravager?
Sadly... no... After Mirrodin has rolled out I think it may be possible for Sligh to have a return, but right now it can't compete with the speed, consistency and long-staying power that Ravager has.
if you want a more competitive deck againtst ravager try out pozna. main decks hearth kamis, couple demolishes. it could beat it at times. i have before.
Note: This post pertains to a list posted while T2Sux's account had been hacked... The first post was removed, but I left the thread in tact.
-ButteBlues18
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
I play 20 sources in my RDW, that is sometimes (stupid MWS shuffler) not enough!
//NAME: Dead Guy Red 2K5
SB: 4 Electrostatic Bolt
SB: 4 Sowing Salt
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Damping Matrix
17 Mountain
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
3 Viashino Sandstalker
4 Genju of the Spires
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Hearth Kami
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Frostling
Anon - control RGW
Even before an entire betrayers spoiler came out alot of people had been recently posting on the subject of a viable Sligh or RDW. Some of these variants posted mediocre results in tournament play with the numbers being out of 7 top 8ed champs deck 2 won, a 35% winning percentage. Even still the card pool was fairly large and there were quite a different number of ways to construct something of this sort.
In the end I went back to the decks root, DeadGuy Red in 1998. For those who dont recall;
4 Jackal Pup
4 Goblin Patrol
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Fireslinger
4 Ironclaw Orc
4 Ball Lightning
4 Shock
4 Kindle
4 Incinerate
1 Sonic Burst
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Wasteland
16 Mountain
2 Boil
2 Spellshock
4 Pyroblast
4 Bottle Gnome
3 Meltdown
Cheap guys, efficient burn I think pretty much sums it up. Im not about to play Isochron Scepter so finding an eve remotely similair scroll effect is out of the question. Wasteland would aslo be effective right now but again no way are we getting that back. The mana curve tops out at 3, and even though that is the case I dont think vulshok sorcerer would be a good replacement for Fireslinger. I cant for the life of me recall with who, but in quite a bite of depth we talked about how right now in the environment you need the most bang for your buck and the sorcerer just isnt optimal under that theory.
Here is my list;
DeaDGuYRed 2K5
SB: 3 Electrostatic Bolt
SB: 3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
SB: 3 Sowing Salt
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Damping Matrix
4 Great Furnace
13 Mountain
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
3 Viashino Sandstalker
4 Genju of the Spires
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Hearth Kami
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Frostling
Sandstalker is in the 3 slot which originally thought might be better suited as Pulse of the Forge but it is has good synergy with goblin cohort. Vintage dead guy ran 13 burn spells and I run 12, and really in total they will probably deal around the same average amount of burn damage per game. I'll try out pulse in the slot as well though.
Anon - control RGW
also i dont like shrapnel blast since running artifacts make you a lot more vulnerable to extra art removal
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Leche de cabra, azucar, glucosa, carbonato.
(no contiene colorantes ni saborizantes artificiales).
:spirit2:
Anon - control RGW
-ButteBlues18
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
This all is directed at the Dead Guy Red btw
After states I have not really played much magic at all and got rid of almost all my cards, but with BOK being released and Reg coming up, I'm back into the game and I've been hoping a nice red sligh deck would come out of BOK.
I'm not sure about the Genju, with all the Elders and such walking around I'm not sure if it is worth four sloths. It recurs as well. With all the dumb creatures that have other purposes besides blocking (witness, tribe elder) I dont know if I would run a full compliment of the enchantment.
That's actually my only querk with the deck from the few games I 've played with it
-Crimson
"I can PASS by the weight room, SMELL the iron inside, and instantly begin to GROW"
~MuSlIn Da MoSt OuT Of LiFe~
Anon - control RGW
4 Frostling
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Akki Avalanchers
4 Akki Radier
3 Akki Blizzard Herder
1 Hearth Kami
3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
4 Glacial Ray
2 Torrent of Stone
4 Crack the Earth
3 Shuko
1 Yamabushi's Flame
19 Mountain
4 God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
I'm not running more flames because with all of the land sac, it's hard to keep 3 lands in play.
4 Raging Goblin (can be replaced with Frostling)
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Hearth Kami
3 Viashino Sandstalker
3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
4 Shock
4 Electrostatic Bolt
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Great Furnace
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
9 Mountains
SB:
4 Seething Song
4 Furnace Dragon
4 Blood Moon
3 Stone Rain
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Too RDW...RDW didn't make it in block for a reason. Being ridiculously anti-Ravager never really works. Putting 4 Damping Matrix maindeck does what? Making the Ravager matchup MAYBE 10% better. That also makes it a completely dead draw possibility if you look at any other matchup. With Elder it doesn't work because they've already popped it by then, meaning you take the pork pony ride from Darksteel Colossus the first game if you aren't careful (and by careful I mean have Zo-Zu in your starting hand). In U/G, it basically means you're gonna have problems if you draw it, because you need card for card the best stuff you have against them. But yeah, I love the version compared to Dead Guy Red, I haven't tested it yet, but on paper it seems to be the best among them.
"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer."
"I love you guys, thanks for comin' to my special."
- Mitch Hedburg (1968-2005)
We love you too Mitch, we love you too.
"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
DeaDGuYReD v2.0
SB: 3 Electrostatic Bolt
SB: 3 Zo-Zu the Punisher
SB: 3 Sowing Salt
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Damping Matrix
4 Great Furnace
12 Mountain
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Darksteel Citdadel
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Chrome Mox
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
3 Pulse of the Forge
4 Genju of the Spires
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Hearth Kami
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Frostling
Some people have told me that Hearth Kami can come out and go to the board, even a few people said to go with spark elemental (granted I would never play spark elemental the fact that this slot has been up reconsideration I am pretty depesperate) perhaps Raging Goblin, but I hardly see how he is better than Kami.
Anon - control RGW
4 spark elemental
4 frostling
4 slith firewalker
4 hearth kami
3 viashino sandstalker
4 shock
3 genju of the spires
3 pyrite spellbomb
3 aether vial
2 chrome mox
the sb obviously needs to be built...suggestions on either the deck or the sb?
When I saw cohort I was thinking he would fit perfectly into aggrored, thus far he hasnt disappointed. Turn 1 cohort, Turn 2 Firewalker is a very solid way to open the game up. I cant recall many times in the testing I have done with the deck (over 40 matches) when I couldnt attack with my cohort, the creature base seems solid enough and numerically sound to make this guy playable.
Kami isnt going anywhere, I dont know what I was thinking. When someone said I should play goblin raider over Kami I realized what needed to go and what needed to stay.
You bring up an interesting point, cut nexi and add more threats. I had thought this very same thing just this morning. Only issue I have is that it would def need to be a 1 or 2 casting burn spell and can I still sufficiently support shrapnel blast. Another thing is that I NEVER want to mulligan with this deck, I need all the cards I can get. If by taking out nexus do I jeopardize a solid starting hand containing enough land to support my opening plays? I dont know. Ill need to run the numbers and test a bit. If I were to do that I would probably add electrostatic bolt to the main, clear the way for genju and improve results against affinity.
Arc-Slogger, as good as he is, costs too much to play.
Anon - control RGW
Sadly... no... After Mirrodin has rolled out I think it may be possible for Sligh to have a return, but right now it can't compete with the speed, consistency and long-staying power that Ravager has.