And here's the stinker. Play sets are auctioning for $60-70 on ebay, and it is not even for sale yet! You had better start trading immediately, 'less you want to trade in your playset of ravagers and pernicious deeds for 4 needles!
And to think that 1 week ago playsets on ebay were going for under $40. I think not many folks will have access to 4 in each deck come regionals, unless they auction of the family jewels!
In my experience 5CG runs the mana filtering elf, and pithing needle can indeed shut that off. Then the player running needle only has to worry about Explosives for one, which also destroys the card they shut off. 2 for 1 or better?
I didn't even think about that. This is probably the best answer to Cop:Red since Flaring Pain.
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1. First I thought Pithing Needle will be just what WW needed against blue
2. I realized that actually MUC will be glad to run that too and just name Aether Vial turn 1
3. On the other hand, this stops Shackles, and if they have to bounce/counter it, they've lost a lot of tempo. What's more, remember this little card Leonin Squire? WW could run 2-3 copies to return countered/destroyed Needles
I'm thinking this could allow the return of Cog Control. Trinket Mages, Auriok Salvagers, and some Leonin Squires getting Pithing Needles for every threat in your deck and keeping them on the board? Ouch. Play a threat that isn't currently named by a Pithing Needle? Explosives set to one, blow up needle, Auriok Salvagers brings both back.
Yeah that really seems like it would be brutal-The only problem I see with that is that it's very intricate, takes quite a few cards, and can easily be disrupted. But, then again, thats the problem with all cogs, right?
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
Great. Just when I'm starting to try and put together a constructed deck online they print a card thats an automatic 4-of in every deck and that will cost ungodly amounts of tickets.
Thanks Wizards! Couldn't you have made this uncommon?
PS. Just realized this card is amazing in Online Extended Affinity! Shuts off Deed, Lavamancer, Isochron, etc. and it has great synergy with the deck.
Ive had a group discussion with my friends and we have come up with some interesting ideas about the needle:
1. TnN WILL NOT PLAY IT ( Dunno if this is a shocker) No point in playing it when it can still win with no problem.
2. This Card is a 4 of for certain decks, WW, MUC, MBC, Maybe MGA.
3. Unfortunately (or fortunately) it's still susceptible to spells that blow artifacts up, and although I like removal on a stick this just means naturalize, demolish, and any other form of instant/sorcery cast spells got more popular.
And also if Im not mistkaen wasn't this in one of the Saviors pre-cons? If so why spend 60 on a set when you can buy 4 pre-cons and get free cards? (Sides who dooesn't need more of those good looking kamigawa lands!)
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Hrm... I'm sorely tempted to get a pair or three of these into my sideboard. I run mbc with maindeck damping matrix (friggin wonderful card, and worth losing my guardian idols as creatures) but there are times when it might be nice to shut down certain lands/enchantments with something other than extraction.
My RDW is already finding slots to open up for this. It shuts down CoP:Red which has become a nuisence in my area. It also hits sakura tribe elder in all the B/G and G/x/x I see at my shop.
I like the needle but not 4 maindeck for MUC it is just unneeded as such most decks have one card to shut down. T&N is one of the few acceptions I see as it could grab Trisk Kiki O stone and other such threats. WW all you need to hit is Lightning greaves. MUC you hit shackles and maybe Meloku if your stabalized and even stalking stones if necassary. But lets see Beacon really has nothing to shut down. but I see 2 maindeck maybe I may side the Bruiberys and put two needles maindeck.
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Quote from mastab3690 »
yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
I'm still not personally sold on this card in the MD. Remember that it only negates one card, and unless it's against, say MUC in which it can name Shackles, or Tooth for KJ, a silver bullet, it won't have such a massive impact against other matchups, because they have to draw the negated card in order for it to do anything in the first place. Naming Kumano/Slogger turn 1 against G/R seems kind of...useless
If they don't draw it, your Needle becomes a dead card, and if they do draw it, chances are it can still have an effect on the game, Kumano, Slogger and Meloku can still beat face if they're stripped of their other talents.
To sum it up, I think it has a similar purpose to Extraction. It can Silver Bullet the right deck, but against more varied decks such as G/x decks, which have multiple threats, the chances that you draw it, name the proper threat, and that they also have the same threat in hand, make it look a lot less attractive.
People are totally overreacting to this card. It's good. But it's not the almighty deck-slayer that people make it out to be. All this will do to the format will force a somewhat more highlander-style set of win conditions and answer cards in many decks. So maybe Mono-Green will swap 1-2 Zealots for Shamans or perhaps Glissa (gasp). MUC will have to use 1 Keiga 1 Meloku instead of 2 Meloku. And maybe some decks will stop playing 4 Jitte. That would not necessarily be a bad thing.
Honestly, Pithing Needle is not really that hard to play around, especially if you design your deck to do it. As good as it may be against some decks, it's still trading 1 card in had for 4 cards in deck. Plus you can still oxidize it and swing with your Jitte'd Elder that's got 6 counters on Jitte cause your opponent wasn't bothering to block anymore. Which is not actually a remotely uncommon situation either, as wide-gauntlet testing reveals.
Don't even waste $70 on a playset of needles. But nab them in your drafts and sell them to people who will pay $70. or play with them. They're not bad, they're just overrated.
Quote from "Mattreis32" »
Just realized this card is amazing in Online Extended Affinity! Shuts off Deed, Lavamancer, Isochron, etc. and it has great synergy with the deck.
A. Some decks can not deversify. MUC really has no other answers other then shackles to aggressive decks. Without shackles it just gets run over.
B. Stealing a jitted creature does no good. You do not control the jitte and you can not activate any of the abilities on it. They can easily kill the creature you just stole with the jitte and reequip it to one of thier own creatures as soon as they can play a sorcery.
C. Needles does not just trade 1 card in hand for 4 in the library. It can very easily trade 1 card in hand for 1 card in play. It can even more easily turn off a card that will gain your opponet card advantae every turn (troll, shackles).
D. Needles is not a game winning card. It is not a card that destroys opponets. It is a very versatile (in the current environment), and effecient answer to many problems. It is one of the better answers to the environment that it is entering that we have seen in the history of this game.
Yes MUC hurts from opposing needle. shackles but can still win cause when they need to steal a creature they just boomerang the needle back to your hand. So it can recover but it does slow me down. As for needle it is great for MUC because it can shut down troll and as for your oxidize t swing with the jitte thing. Jitte should never be equiped in the first place. Needle shuts off Equip to remeber. It is a very good card and is a great in SB if nothing else dont overlook and underrate it.
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Quote from mastab3690 »
yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
I'm still not sold on the card. For one thing, for it to actually make an impact, you have to name the appropriate card, and they have to draw this said card, and this alone isn't spectacular odds. To make it worse, many of those cards named still have a secondly function after being shut down. Hearth Kami/Zealot can still beat, Slogger is still a fat 4/5, etc. It's great against MUC, but I'm not sure against what else, which leads me to my next question:
When do you play the Needle? After you see the threat, or first turn after seeing the color of land they drop? Obviously if it's an Island you drop it and name Shackles, but against a Mountain? Swamp? And what do you name against each of these colors, first game, without prior knowledge of your foe's deck?
I think Pithing Needle is one of the better cards in the Saviors set. As to whether it'll have a place in a T2 deck, I'm not too sure. Sure there's a lot of cards it could stop, but there's so much artifact hate still floating around that I don't think players will have a difficult time getting rid of or around the card.
Asking questions in a vacuum is pointless. All these questions have answers based on innumerable other factors.
And what other factors would these be? The only thing that sprang to mind of which I had overlooked before was the deck using it, but, say for example BG cloud is running them, you're in the first game, you have a Needle in hand, and he drops a Mountain first turn. I'm asking what the play is here? I think it's a legitimate question, just in general: when to play the Needle and what to name based on limited information.
Pithing Needle messed up my Shackles a ton first game because I don't have any Artifact hate in it (maindeck), and I can never seem to get Echoing Truth unless I Gifts Ungiven it. But only if the needle is in play.. bad luck
It is not compulsory to play Pithing Needle on turn 1.
You work out what he's doing, and then you play the Needle.
The only exception to this rule IMO would be playing against MUC. If they drop an Island, I'd be willing to play Needle naming Shackles before they have a chance to get the mana to counter it.
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Also, this is a great way to shut down CoPs
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And to think that 1 week ago playsets on ebay were going for under $40. I think not many folks will have access to 4 in each deck come regionals, unless they auction of the family jewels!
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I traded 5-6 crap SOK rares for my Needle. I'm SO glad I did it too.
I didn't even think about that. This is probably the best answer to Cop:Red since Flaring Pain.
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
agreed. leonin squire is da man.
3CB and 4CB5CB!Thanks Wizards! Couldn't you have made this uncommon?
PS. Just realized this card is amazing in Online Extended Affinity! Shuts off Deed, Lavamancer, Isochron, etc. and it has great synergy with the deck.
1. TnN WILL NOT PLAY IT ( Dunno if this is a shocker) No point in playing it when it can still win with no problem.
2. This Card is a 4 of for certain decks, WW, MUC, MBC, Maybe MGA.
3. Unfortunately (or fortunately) it's still susceptible to spells that blow artifacts up, and although I like removal on a stick this just means naturalize, demolish, and any other form of instant/sorcery cast spells got more popular.
And also if Im not mistkaen wasn't this in one of the Saviors pre-cons? If so why spend 60 on a set when you can buy 4 pre-cons and get free cards? (Sides who dooesn't need more of those good looking kamigawa lands!)
This is my Bunny, Avernus. Fear Him if you Dare.
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If they don't draw it, your Needle becomes a dead card, and if they do draw it, chances are it can still have an effect on the game, Kumano, Slogger and Meloku can still beat face if they're stripped of their other talents.
To sum it up, I think it has a similar purpose to Extraction. It can Silver Bullet the right deck, but against more varied decks such as G/x decks, which have multiple threats, the chances that you draw it, name the proper threat, and that they also have the same threat in hand, make it look a lot less attractive.
Honestly, Pithing Needle is not really that hard to play around, especially if you design your deck to do it. As good as it may be against some decks, it's still trading 1 card in had for 4 cards in deck. Plus you can still oxidize it and swing with your Jitte'd Elder that's got 6 counters on Jitte cause your opponent wasn't bothering to block anymore. Which is not actually a remotely uncommon situation either, as wide-gauntlet testing reveals.
Don't even waste $70 on a playset of needles. But nab them in your drafts and sell them to people who will pay $70. or play with them. They're not bad, they're just overrated.
Truthery. Pure truthery.
B. Stealing a jitted creature does no good. You do not control the jitte and you can not activate any of the abilities on it. They can easily kill the creature you just stole with the jitte and reequip it to one of thier own creatures as soon as they can play a sorcery.
C. Needles does not just trade 1 card in hand for 4 in the library. It can very easily trade 1 card in hand for 1 card in play. It can even more easily turn off a card that will gain your opponet card advantae every turn (troll, shackles).
D. Needles is not a game winning card. It is not a card that destroys opponets. It is a very versatile (in the current environment), and effecient answer to many problems. It is one of the better answers to the environment that it is entering that we have seen in the history of this game.
When do you play the Needle? After you see the threat, or first turn after seeing the color of land they drop? Obviously if it's an Island you drop it and name Shackles, but against a Mountain? Swamp? And what do you name against each of these colors, first game, without prior knowledge of your foe's deck?
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And what other factors would these be? The only thing that sprang to mind of which I had overlooked before was the deck using it, but, say for example BG cloud is running them, you're in the first game, you have a Needle in hand, and he drops a Mountain first turn. I'm asking what the play is here? I think it's a legitimate question, just in general: when to play the Needle and what to name based on limited information.
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Well, thanks for finally answering my question :). I asked that specific question in my first post.
The only exception to this rule IMO would be playing against MUC. If they drop an Island, I'd be willing to play Needle naming Shackles before they have a chance to get the mana to counter it.