Ok, You have a VERY odd approach here. Youa re playign creatures, so you tap out and they get to play spells. Basicly you want to OVERWHEALM them with your counters. Let nothing important resolve, AT ALL!
Teh two tricky bits of a deck like this are, the burn and the manipulation of the deck (ie. Card drawers and tutors). The first rule here is to have as few sorcerys as possible, this just uses up mana, which si a bad thing in a permission deck, a very bad thing.
Ok, so Burn: Magma Jet
Manipulation, removal and Burn. A very solid red card, and an instant.
Pulse of the Forge
It comes back, which is a very good thing in this deck, it also equals out your opponents threats
Beacon of Destruction
I know it costs :3mana::symr::symr: but it is an instant, and for no drawback, it repeats itself. This also lets you shuffle.
Shrapnel Blast
For this card I am willing to make my mana base succeptable to Artifact hate. With as much card draw as you will have, these will be a game winner.
Glacial Ray
There is a possiblity of it being played, but you have to alter your card choices for it, thsi can be painful. It also makes multiple counterspells harder to do.
Pyroclasm
You don't come online till turn two, you need to mop up teh cheating creatures.
MAnipulation: Sensei's divining top
1cc artifact, oops can be fed to blast in response to tapping, what is that? Plus it alows you to use spare mana to get counters AND tells you if it is a good idea to beacon?? Yeah, you are going to play it buddy.
Peer through Depths
Yes, it is good, it generally always hits a counter early on, and always hits burn later on, if not it still gets rid of other stuff you don't want, like thsoe spare lands.
Thirst for Knowledge
Instant, plus you have artifacts to pitch, this is a very good hand filler, you can normally find somthing with it.
And that shoudl do you, fill it with counters and consider Chrome mox in the SB for aggro matchups. Vedalken shackles is anotehr minor possiblity, just wait till late game to actually play it.
Here is how i would build it, it would be steady if affinity goes, i will probably build it, assuming artifact lands are still in tact. please critique
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
9 Island
6 Mountain
2 Keiga
4 Magma Jet
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Pulse of the Forge
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Where are the Hinders in your list? As it is probably THE best counterspell at the current point in time in the T2 environment, I'd suggest that you use it.
I would definitely add Hinder to the deck. It is the best counter in T2 at the moment. I wouldn't add Disrupting Shoal to a 2 color deck. To play its alternative cost you have to pitch a card. If you are playing 2 colors you might not have a card in your hand to pitch. The fact that the card you pitch has to be the same cc as the 1 that you are countering also makes the Shoal rather weak.
The overall idea of the deck is good, but their really isn't any good burn that hits both players and creatures. I don't really know if this decktype will be able to be that strong because of the lack of good burn.
Pulse of the Forge , only hits players, its still good, but their just might be a time when you need to hit a creature and the Forge isn't going to help.
Shrapnel Blast , is strong but you need to add artifacts to your build to be able to use it, the artifact lands could be used to fuel a Blast.
Magma Jet , and Glacial Ray only hit for 2 making them a little small to use as the main burn in your deck for the win condition. Ray can be spliced, the only problem is that their isn't any other good arcane burn spells to my knowledge that could be used.
Hammer of Bogardan , hits for 3, and used to be played in counterburn as a win condition. The problem with Hammer is that it is a sorcery, and to bring it back from the graveyard you need alot of thus making the Hammer to slow and mana intensive to be the cornerstone of a T2 counterburn deck.
Beacon of Destruction , takes 5 to play, but it deals 5 which is pretty good for its cc. You also can get the spell shuffled back into the deck to reuse over again. I can see adding maybe 2 to your deck, and if you used Sensei Diving Top you might be able to find it sooner then later.
Overall you have to admit that the burn itn T2 is rather weak. I'm sure I missed a spell. Maybe their is a spell that might be used. I love counterburn and hopefully this deck can be successfull in a new T2 enviroment.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
just with wht ive been testing(and assuming affinity will still be somewht powerful after bannings) i think that adding a bit of green for some accel and artifact hate, and sideboard options works very well. its been working for me, and ive been adding ste's shamans, reaches and time of needs and been using wear away/nautralizes in the board
have you guys thought about the possible inclusion of isochron scepter? I think it might be a good addition to the deck. I played a version of this deck without any rares and focused it more on the scepter and managed a third place victory. (Not bad for something I threw together 5min before the tourney) The only problem I had was that I couldn't ever run into enough answers fast enough to deal with ravager affinity consistantly, but I'm sure with the soon to come bannings that may not even be much of an issue.
i played in a tournament on fridcay. i played affintiy to a sedond place finish. vial lis broken i wonws many games son th3e poever oif it.
Unless i am mistaken Oxidize, V Shaman and E Witness are showing up in just as many decks and warping the metagame as much as Affinity. They should just ban all of Mirrodin block. Onslaught was always the best block ever. I had a U/W Cleric wizard deck that couldnt be beat.
With so much artifact hate in this environment... it's hard to tell about that scepter. After all, with ravager possibly going bye-bye forever, the amount of hate would definitely decrease... or it would stay the same with the increased number of viable artifact archetypes... I'm still not sure.
I would run Magma Jet in my deck, simply because it is simple 2 damage for 2 that looks at 2 cards at can put them on the bottom if they aren't good. Fixing your draws isn't the best thing in the world, but it can help quite a lot. I'd probably run it more like a control deck, using counterspells to deal with key cards that can hurt, and burn to hit the creatures that come my way, and then swing for the win with something like Keiga or Meloku (something along those lines). That's how I would do it, not use burn itself as a win condition.
I like septer but Shrapnel blast is not as powerful as in raveger
so to put shrapnel blast in and septer I need to put artifact lands in and I dont what to do that I have enogh stuff to put on the septer but it might end up as card disatvanteg and the name of the game is card advatage
Uhh, Sceptre control is huge! when played right of course. My friend and I had a build going for quite some time till we got tired of it, same ideas as included here, sceptre just makes it that much better. I think it looked something like:
It's pretty basic but works surprisingly well, makes for incredibly slow games, but often leaves the opponent feeling hopelessly annoyed. Wins a fair amount too...
I can't remember a SB for it but at one point we had the SB turn the deck into Obliterate. It's a fun little surprise and vastly improves the games vs big mana decks.
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I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Echoing truth cant touch Rude Awakening. Thats a problem. Plus Evacuation Sweeps the board, thats a big plus. Not the strongest of effects vs Affinity but works vs just about every other deck archetype.
Though I'd consider dropping them now over the possiblity of Genjus in there, A couple genju of the spires mixed into the sceptre deck could work wonders, replacing an Evac and teh raise the alarms possibly, If I get bored enough I may just have to throw it back together and test it out.
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I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
@undergroundxp you shouldn't doublepost, that is why you have a edit botton.
You probably won because of the person that built it for you.:tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:
You played decks that were slow and you could build up your counters. I would expect that you would have a hard time against a aggro deck that can drop down multiple creatures per turn. You will then have to use your burn to deal with your opponents creatures and not your opponent.
I bet you that rats would give you fits.
I challange you to duel, :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
The dragon is a cool idea. Your opponent has to have 2 flyers out to block the dragon, but I wouldn't run 4 Two Headed Dragon in the deck. I can see running 2 maybe 3 at the most, but 4 is just to many. He takes 6 to get out and you wouldn't want to be stuck with a couple copies of THD in your opening hand, waiting for that 2nd mountian. His ability also requiers alot of if your going to us his ability to pump him up during combat.
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Mr Blonde:symb: Resident SwampMage:symb:
"Are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite?"
i really want to fit gifts ungiven in but there is no room. boomerang is in mainboard over echoing truth because it owns genju and first turn mox scepter boomerang is game if they dont have an oxidize. vedalken shackles countrols creatures that i cant kill with burn. also i dont have an answer for rude awakening other than a timely counter. any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance.
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thank u magicdeckvortex for the avatar
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
Wow, decklists have really slumped. Ok, I'll see what I cna do here.
Justa note: I have gotten 2nd 2nd 3rd at my last 3 FNM's with my secret tech ;).
Hondens:
High cc, sorcery speed cards that allow your opponent to geta turn of playing stuff. Trust me, you don't want to wait to late game to play these, because you will win in a few turns anyway.
Boomerang:
Echoing Truth, Nerf.
I am seing a lack of Minamo, with.... BOIL in the format :/?
I am considering some dual colour lands just in case boil gets really big for red sb's.
And Where are your evacuations???? This is your answer to Rude, don't doubt it.
Without witness, gift's isn't as good as it could be, I think Peer through depths and the top make up for it.
Well I am finding Keiga and Riusei are the best finishers I can find. One dragon and a minamo is very good, adn has worked well for me. But more meloku tsting could be done, he is also one less mana... Allowing a turn 8-9 play if I am lucky.
sneaky:
Maybe 3 pyroclasms, you don't want to lose your meloku tokens to a mindslaver.
I think, maindeck, rewind over quash, Quash is only superior in G/x for rude, B/x for cloud and T&N. Hrmm, on re-evaluation, test that slot, I don't know.
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
3 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
4 Condescend
4 Glacial Ray
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
4 Magma Jet
4 Serum Visions
4 Yamabushi's Flame
2 Yamabushi's Storm
12 Island
12 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Boomerang
4 Last Word
4 Quash
4 Volcanic Hammer
any sugestions
-2x Yamabushi's Storm
+4x Pyroclasm
+2x (Your Burn Card Here... I'd suggest perhaps Hammer of Bogarden)
I'd probably ditch Kumano for Slogger too.
Teh two tricky bits of a deck like this are, the burn and the manipulation of the deck (ie. Card drawers and tutors). The first rule here is to have as few sorcerys as possible, this just uses up mana, which si a bad thing in a permission deck, a very bad thing.
Ok, so Burn:
Magma Jet
Manipulation, removal and Burn. A very solid red card, and an instant.
Pulse of the Forge
It comes back, which is a very good thing in this deck, it also equals out your opponents threats
Beacon of Destruction
I know it costs :3mana::symr::symr: but it is an instant, and for no drawback, it repeats itself. This also lets you shuffle.
Shrapnel Blast
For this card I am willing to make my mana base succeptable to Artifact hate. With as much card draw as you will have, these will be a game winner.
Glacial Ray
There is a possiblity of it being played, but you have to alter your card choices for it, thsi can be painful. It also makes multiple counterspells harder to do.
Pyroclasm
You don't come online till turn two, you need to mop up teh cheating creatures.
MAnipulation:
Sensei's divining top
1cc artifact, oops can be fed to blast in response to tapping, what is that? Plus it alows you to use spare mana to get counters AND tells you if it is a good idea to beacon?? Yeah, you are going to play it buddy.
Peer through Depths
Yes, it is good, it generally always hits a counter early on, and always hits burn later on, if not it still gets rid of other stuff you don't want, like thsoe spare lands.
Thirst for Knowledge
Instant, plus you have artifacts to pitch, this is a very good hand filler, you can normally find somthing with it.
And that shoudl do you, fill it with counters and consider Chrome mox in the SB for aggro matchups. Vedalken shackles is anotehr minor possiblity, just wait till late game to actually play it.
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
9 Island
6 Mountain
2 Keiga
4 Magma Jet
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Pulse of the Forge
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Condescend
4 Mana Leak
4 Shoal
SB:
4 Echoing Truth(TNN/Aggro)
4 Evacuation(TNN/Aggro)
4 Annul(KCI)
3 ???
This user has been banned from trading on MTGsalvation.
The overall idea of the deck is good, but their really isn't any good burn that hits both players and creatures. I don't really know if this decktype will be able to be that strong because of the lack of good burn.
Pulse of the Forge , only hits players, its still good, but their just might be a time when you need to hit a creature and the Forge isn't going to help.
Shrapnel Blast , is strong but you need to add artifacts to your build to be able to use it, the artifact lands could be used to fuel a Blast.
Magma Jet , and Glacial Ray only hit for 2 making them a little small to use as the main burn in your deck for the win condition. Ray can be spliced, the only problem is that their isn't any other good arcane burn spells to my knowledge that could be used.
Hammer of Bogardan , hits for 3, and used to be played in counterburn as a win condition. The problem with Hammer is that it is a sorcery, and to bring it back from the graveyard you need alot of thus making the Hammer to slow and mana intensive to be the cornerstone of a T2 counterburn deck.
Beacon of Destruction , takes 5 to play, but it deals 5 which is pretty good for its cc. You also can get the spell shuffled back into the deck to reuse over again. I can see adding maybe 2 to your deck, and if you used Sensei Diving Top you might be able to find it sooner then later.
Overall you have to admit that the burn itn T2 is rather weak. I'm sure I missed a spell. Maybe their is a spell that might be used. I love counterburn and hopefully this deck can be successfull in a new T2 enviroment.
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
9 Island
6 Mountain
1 Meloku
2 Keiga
4 Magma Jet
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Pulse of the Forge
1 Beacon of Destruction
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Peer Through Depths
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Condescend
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
SB:
4 Echoing Truth(TNN/Aggro)
4 Evacuation(TNN/Aggro)
4 Annul(KCI)
3 ???
This user has been banned from trading on MTGsalvation.
behold the wisdom of slidegob
I would run Magma Jet in my deck, simply because it is simple 2 damage for 2 that looks at 2 cards at can put them on the bottom if they aren't good. Fixing your draws isn't the best thing in the world, but it can help quite a lot. I'd probably run it more like a control deck, using counterspells to deal with key cards that can hurt, and burn to hit the creatures that come my way, and then swing for the win with something like Keiga or Meloku (something along those lines). That's how I would do it, not use burn itself as a win condition.
so to put shrapnel blast in and septer I need to put artifact lands in and I dont what to do that I have enogh stuff to put on the septer but it might end up as card disatvanteg and the name of the game is card advatage
10x Island
6x Mountain
4x Cloudpost
3x City of Brass
Spells:
4x Electrostatic Bolt
3x Echoing Truth
4x Magma Jet
4x Glacial Ray
4x Mana Leak
3x Condescend
4x Rewind
3x Hinder
2x Raise The Alarm
4x Serum Visions
2x Evacuation
It's pretty basic but works surprisingly well, makes for incredibly slow games, but often leaves the opponent feeling hopelessly annoyed. Wins a fair amount too...
I can't remember a SB for it but at one point we had the SB turn the deck into Obliterate. It's a fun little surprise and vastly improves the games vs big mana decks.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
2 Ryusei, the Falling Star
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Condescend
4 Glacial Ray
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
4 Magma Jet
4 Serum Visions
4 Yamabushi's Flame
2 Beacon of destruction
11 Island
11 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Yambushi's Storm
4 Echoing Truth
3 Quash
2 Bribery
2 March of the Machines
1 Beacon of destruction
Main Deck
2 Ryusei, the Falling Star
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Condescend
4 Glacial Ray
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
4 Magma Jet
4 Serum Visions
4 Yamabushi's Flame
2 Beacon of destruction
11 Island
11 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Pyroclasm
4 Echoing Truth
3 Quash
2 Bribery
2 March of the Machines
1 Deflection
Though I'd consider dropping them now over the possiblity of Genjus in there, A couple genju of the spires mixed into the sceptre deck could work wonders, replacing an Evac and teh raise the alarms possibly, If I get bored enough I may just have to throw it back together and test it out.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Draft and Pauper on MTGO: RonTrauma
MTGArena: Mardu Aristocrats, Mono-R, 4C Dreadhorde, Golgari Citadel
You probably won because of the person that built it for you.:tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:
You played decks that were slow and you could build up your counters. I would expect that you would have a hard time against a aggro deck that can drop down multiple creatures per turn. You will then have to use your burn to deal with your opponents creatures and not your opponent.
I bet you that rats would give you fits.
I challange you to duel, :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
and Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Main Deck
4Two Headed Dragon
4 Condescend
4 Glacial Ray
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
4 Magma Jet
4 Serum Visions
4 Yamabushi's Flame
2 Beacon of destruction
11 Island
11 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Pyroclasm
4 Echoing Truth
3 Quash
2 Bribery
2 March of the Machines
1 Deflection
creatures: 5
maloku the clouded mirror: 2
arc slogger: 3
Spells: 32
chrome mox: 3
vedalken shackles: 3
isochron scepter: 3
serum visions: 4
magma jet: 4
boomerang:3
honden of infinite rage: 2
honden of the seeing winds: 2
mana leak: 4
rewind:4
land: 23
shinka the blood soaked keep: 1
mountain: 8
island: 14
sideboard: 15
pyroclasm: 3
bribery: 3
shock: 3
echoing truth: 3
shrapnal blast: 3
i really want to fit gifts ungiven in but there is no room. boomerang is in mainboard over echoing truth because it owns genju and first turn mox scepter boomerang is game if they dont have an oxidize. vedalken shackles countrols creatures that i cant kill with burn. also i dont have an answer for rude awakening other than a timely counter. any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance.
I am just smart enough to relize just how stupid i am.
"my apprentice could have swallowed a flood-swollen river and pissed it back into the wizard's face before it drowned him." -Heartless Hidetsugu :fingers:
And how would that be? They are both Soceries.
Justa note: I have gotten 2nd 2nd 3rd at my last 3 FNM's with my secret tech ;).
Hondens:
High cc, sorcery speed cards that allow your opponent to geta turn of playing stuff. Trust me, you don't want to wait to late game to play these, because you will win in a few turns anyway.
Boomerang:
Echoing Truth, Nerf.
I am seing a lack of Minamo, with.... BOIL in the format :/?
I am considering some dual colour lands just in case boil gets really big for red sb's.
And Where are your evacuations???? This is your answer to Rude, don't doubt it.
Without witness, gift's isn't as good as it could be, I think Peer through depths and the top make up for it.
Well, i will add more later, I must be off.
sneaky:
Maybe 3 pyroclasms, you don't want to lose your meloku tokens to a mindslaver.
I think, maindeck, rewind over quash, Quash is only superior in G/x for rude, B/x for cloud and T&N. Hrmm, on re-evaluation, test that slot, I don't know.