I want to put in some burns, and I think my Armed + Artful is just too many, but I'm sure this won't be changed around too much.
Maybe I should try out some different cantrips?
More of a ruling question...but doesn't cipher activate after combat damage? So none of the bonuses he gains from cipher would add to the damage he deals, correct?
As far as the deck...I would definitely add Dispel
No point in doing all that work on Nivix only to get him removed. Dispel is cheap and will also beef him up, perfect fit.
More of a ruling question...but doesn't cipher activate after combat damage? So none of the bonuses he gains from cipher would add to the damage he deals, correct?
As far as the deck...I would definitely add Dispel
No point in doing all that work on Nivix only to get him removed. Dispel is cheap and will also beef him up, perfect fit.
Correct - but if he has double strike, you can cast the spell after the first strike damage, meaning he's going to get +3/+0 for his second strike damage.
But that's only if 1) Nivix Cyclops is the one with the cipher spell and 2) Nivix Cyclops is the one with double strike.
And Dispel seems like a good idea, but how about Negate? If you're running Electromancers then it's going to be the same cost, and it gets rid of those pesky Mizzium Mortars and whatnot too.
Also, I didn't even think about Delver... 4/3 flying double strike on turn 2 seems like it'd be fun.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
Boros Charm is Mizzium Skin, the better part of Armed//Dangerous, and a burn spell all on one card. Basically it's everything this deck wants to run. Running Delver definitely seems right as it baits removal and can win the game alone. Pike seems awful an awkward in this deck. A RUG build with Quiron Dryad might be good too.
I just wanted to say I went back through and reworked a few things from my previous version and I am having a lot of success with this build that I came up with. It is a little bit of a mix of what has been posted here and it has been tweaked quite a few times. I can consistently get to a delver or cyclops doing doublstirke lethal or near lethal by turn 5. Any time it goes beyond that I usually have Guttersnipe out and he brings it home with chained spells. Here is the list I'm working with currently
Geist of St Traft also happens to be a 3CMC beater that hits insanely hard, so I think it's a natural fit and I prefer it to Guttersnipe. It also reduces the need for protection spells like Faith's Shield. Rather than going all in on Artful Dodge, I'd rather play more cards that do things before I find a Cyclops in case it takes a while to do so, but they're still in there. This list is less all-in on Cyclops and more interested in keeping the individual card quality a little higher (although Swift Justice is a little loose ... it's insane in a racing situation though).
This is my american version. Lots of versatility with all 3 charms, plenty of flashback, evasion options, and a decent amount of draw. Undecided between guttersnipe, snapcaster mage, and delver of secrets though.
This is my american version. Lots of versatility with all 3 charms, plenty of flashback, evasion options, and a decent amount of draw. Undecided between guttersnipe, snapcaster mage, and delver of secrets though.
Maybe delver instead of guttersnipe?
I feel like mizzium mortars and cyclonic rift are needed in these decks...
and for the record... ral z is a beast in this deck if you can keep him on board. unsummons and counters ftw.
Maybe delver instead of guttersnipe?
I feel like mizzium mortars and cyclonic rift are needed in these decks...
and for the record... ral z is a beast in this deck if you can keep him on board. unsummons and counters ftw.
I agree with delver over guttersnipe, but delver over snapcaster? I was trying very hard to keep the cmc down due to the amount of lands I'm running. I'd try unsummon but I dont see myself ever hitting 5+ mana to overload either of those. Ral seems like fun but he seems like he'd be a day late and a buck short in my build.
Here is the list I'm developing, similar to other peopls. Mizzium skin is something I'm considering, not sure how many or where to put it yet. I like the pike as another pressure/win con for swinging with Delver or Guttersnipe. Also the Devil's Play can get us the last bit if the opponent stabalizes the board. I like cyclonic rift better than unsummon for the overload to clear a board if we need. Although that is sort of the same reason I have Mizzium Mortars in the side. Maybe those could be replaced by turn // burn to get rid of pesky things like thragtusk and voice?
From testing out a deck today, I think the biggest issue is having dead hands. I'm not sure what would solve that: card draw is okay, but when there are only 8 3-drops that can win us the game, it's a bit risky. Some more control or burn would be good, but those options are limited. I'm straight up losing to Gruul Aggro & RDW.
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From testing out a deck today, I think the biggest issue is having dead hands. I'm not sure what would solve that: card draw is okay, but when there are only 8 3-drops that can win us the game, it's a bit risky. Some more control or burn would be good, but those options are limited. I'm straight up losing to Gruul Aggro & RDW.
I would be curious to see the list you were testing.
I do feel like the deck lacks creatures. With only 12 main deck it might be better to move away from Delver and add some more threats to the board.
I really like Faithless Looting in this deck. The drawback isn´t so bad, because there are 10 (6 without looting) spells with flashback and we don´t need much cards to play our "combo".
Either you play the Combo part with cyclops, artful dodge, charm/armed , or it´s a burn deck with delver and guttersnipe.
Mizzium Skin is a 4-off to protect our 10 creatures.
I cutted some lands for 4 Thought Scour, making the delver better and milling myself to get artful dodge, feeling of dread or looting in the grave isn´t bad.
I think think twice is great with cyclops, personally I would probably run all the draw I could with him. I have messed around with a defender's deck based around him and dragonshift as well.
Guttersnipe does not seem quite useful on this deck for me. Even though it might become an eventual wincon, I would rather include Augur of Bolas (good early block+spell digging for the cyclops). Perhaps it would be necessary to find another finisher.
Snapcaster and Delver seem great for the deck. Frostburn weird also seems solid for SB or even MB if you are facing an aggro-heavy meta.
Melek and Ral are weirdos but might become overkill on this. I don't know if this would work, but Possibility Storm could be fun (Izzet madness ftw?).
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like stromkirk noble, and why not delver since the spell count is already high
Well, that's what I was doing!
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Armed // Dangerous
4 Artful Dodge
3 Spell Rupture
3 Syncopate
3 Izzet Charm
3 Mizzium Skin
4 Thought Scour
8 Island
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Runechanter's Pike
2 Counterflux
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Negate
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Skullcrack
2 Turn // Burn
I want to put in some burns, and I think my Armed + Artful is just too many, but I'm sure this won't be changed around too much.
Maybe I should try out some different cantrips?
As far as the deck...I would definitely add Dispel
No point in doing all that work on Nivix only to get him removed. Dispel is cheap and will also beef him up, perfect fit.
Correct - but if he has double strike, you can cast the spell after the first strike damage, meaning he's going to get +3/+0 for his second strike damage.
But that's only if 1) Nivix Cyclops is the one with the cipher spell and 2) Nivix Cyclops is the one with double strike.
And Dispel seems like a good idea, but how about Negate? If you're running Electromancers then it's going to be the same cost, and it gets rid of those pesky Mizzium Mortars and whatnot too.
Also, I didn't even think about Delver... 4/3 flying double strike on turn 2 seems like it'd be fun.
I like it. Delver seems good and probably more playable then a bunch of other options. And I didn't know about Skullcrack tech. Nice.
:symr::symu: Reality Bites
:symr::symu: Delver Cyclops
:symr::symu: Niv Control EDH
:symg::symw: Sigarda EDH
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
—Venser[/card]
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Guttersnipe
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Dispel
4x Searing Spear
4x Mizzium Skin
4x Faithless Looting
3x Pillar of Flame
3x Artful Dodge
6x Island
6x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Skullcrack
4x Electrickery
2x Dispel
2x Cyclonic Rift
3x Grafdigger's Cage
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Guttersnipe
Spells
4 Artful Dodge
4 Armed / Dangerous
3 Unsummon
3 Think Twice
4 Searing Spear
3 Inaction Injunction
3 Mizzium Skin
2 Thought Scour
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Rootbound Crag
6 Island
5 Mountain
3 Skullcrack
2 Syncopate
4 Dispel
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Electrickery
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Mugging
4 Unsummon
4 Thought Scour
2 Artful Dodge
1 Feeling of Dread
3 Searing Spear
4 Boros Charm
1 Faith's Shield
1 Swift Justice
1 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Frostburn Weird
1 Searing Spear
3 Blind Obedience
1 Dispel
3 Purify the Grave
3 Skullcrack
Geist of St Traft also happens to be a 3CMC beater that hits insanely hard, so I think it's a natural fit and I prefer it to Guttersnipe. It also reduces the need for protection spells like Faith's Shield. Rather than going all in on Artful Dodge, I'd rather play more cards that do things before I find a Cyclops in case it takes a while to do so, but they're still in there. This list is less all-in on Cyclops and more interested in keeping the individual card quality a little higher (although Swift Justice is a little loose ... it's insane in a racing situation though).
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
I like this a lot. I was a fan of that link that was posted and I felt like the author overlooked Armed/Dangerous.
Turn 4 Artful Dodge+Flashback+Armed is lethal with Cyclops and it's not even that farfetched of a draw.
I still feel like Runechanter's Pike is a necessary evil. It's nice to have a couple around for some of the less than optimal hands.
4x guttersnipe
4x geist of saint traft
4x nivix cyclops
artifacts: 1
1x runechanter's pike
spells: 27
4x artful dodge
4x boros charm
4x azorius charm
4x izzet charm
4x feeling of dread
4x searing spear
3x think twice
4x steam vents
4x sulfur falls
3x hallowed fountain
3x glacial fortress
3x sacred foundry
3x clifftop retreat
Maybe delver instead of guttersnipe?
I feel like mizzium mortars and cyclonic rift are needed in these decks...
and for the record... ral z is a beast in this deck if you can keep him on board. unsummons and counters ftw.
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I agree with delver over guttersnipe, but delver over snapcaster? I was trying very hard to keep the cmc down due to the amount of lands I'm running. I'd try unsummon but I dont see myself ever hitting 5+ mana to overload either of those. Ral seems like fun but he seems like he'd be a day late and a buck short in my build.
Currently Playing
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Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
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UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
URWTwin
XAffinity
4 delver of secrets
4 guttersnipe
4 nivix cyclops
Spells
4 cyclonic rift
4 searing spear
4 think twice
4 artful dodge
2 devil's play
4 armed // dangerous
3 inaction injunction
2 runechanter's pike
1 cathedral of war
7 island
7 mountain
4 steam vents
2 sulfur falls
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Skullcrack
4 Spell rupture
UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
UWGbant flashGWU
UBdimir mill-controlBU
I would be curious to see the list you were testing.
I do feel like the deck lacks creatures. With only 12 main deck it might be better to move away from Delver and add some more threats to the board.
I´m also brewing with Nivix Cyclops. This is what i ended up with:
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Nivix Cyclops
2 Guttersnipe
4 Boros Charm
1 Armed // Dangerous
4 Artful Dodge
4 Mizzium Skin
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thought Scour
4 Searing Spear
2 Skullcrack
2 Felling of Dread
I really like Faithless Looting in this deck. The drawback isn´t so bad, because there are 10 (6 without looting) spells with flashback and we don´t need much cards to play our "combo".
Either you play the Combo part with cyclops, artful dodge, charm/armed , or it´s a burn deck with delver and guttersnipe.
Mizzium Skin is a 4-off to protect our 10 creatures.
I cutted some lands for 4 Thought Scour, making the delver better and milling myself to get artful dodge, feeling of dread or looting in the grave isn´t bad.
I played without a SB, but there are some cards i was thinking off:
Azorius Charm
Dispel
Purify the Grave
Turn // Burn
AEtherize
Snapcaster and Delver seem great for the deck. Frostburn weird also seems solid for SB or even MB if you are facing an aggro-heavy meta.
Melek and Ral are weirdos but might become overkill on this. I don't know if this would work, but Possibility Storm could be fun (Izzet madness ftw?).