Well it's good to see the thread getting as much attention as it is. I've proxied a few of the ideas I've seen and just kinda fooled around with them. Haven't had the chance to play against any o the top level decks, but I have found I for sure want to go midrange with this deck and that Sign in Blood will find a place in here. Way to many times I ran out of gas on decks with any type of nuke. I'll post an updated list after work and hopfully we can get somethin thrown together from there.
Thanks again for all the advice guys. I'm really starting to feel good about some of the options.
You actually don't address a thing I said. This is a joke.
You can't refute my arguments about how Sign in Blood is better by simply groundlessly, telling me I'm silly and bad. >_< My arguments about Sign in Blood's better CMC and negligible color cost still stand. My arguments about how drawing into two more cards is more valuable than ~5 damage (Realistically that's the most you're going to hit them for on turn three) also still stand. If you want to be taken seriously go actually address a point I made, instead of just saying: "This card did good sometimes, dummy."
I would much rather play Boros Charm T2 than hit myself up for a couple cards, and then nail them for 5 T3.
Good enough for you?
Trouble catches you up against aggro, and punishes control. And, hey, you can still get your two cards for two life if you want!
I highly doubt you've tested the card, at all.
And I totally agree, just a 1/1 first strike mid-late game isn't what I want to draw into when I could use a nighthawk or something a bit heavier like blood baron.
in my experience noble just isn't good if you play him after t3 or t4
Orzhov Charm target, hits first, gets bigger. No one wants to draw into a 1/1. But ramp decks still play tons of mana dorks, don't they? Consider this ours.
I'm going to change my previous list posted to swap Toil // Trouble for Sign In Blood. As noted by others, the cmc is the main reason behind the change. Also, I may try to fit another Blood Baron of Viskopa into the list as well.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Here's my take; am undecided on Exava or another Slip and Dreadbore. It borrows from Aristocrats; am considering 4th Olivia. Sorin seemed a bit slow.
Nocturnus seemed to cause mana issues and was a bit unreliable. At first I put Exava in thinking it was a vampire, but a 4/4 1st strike haste for four seems good (poosible to play as 3/3 for defense).
I would much rather play Boros Charm T2 than hit myself up for a couple cards, and then nail them for 5 T3.
Good enough for you?
No.
Nailing them with Boros Charm is awful on turn two. Against Esper, or Bant I want to keep them up Charm to prect from a wrath. Against Aggro or midrage I want to use the indestrutablity of Double Strike ot force through favorable blocks and gain an advantage that war. Grabbing two cards for two life in infinatly better than wasting a Boros Charm for four damage in an aggressive midrange deck. Period.
Trouble catches you up against aggro, and punishes control. And, hey, you can still get your two cards for two life if you want!
I highly doubt you've tested the card, at all.
You don't race against aggro. You can't race Burning-Tree Emmissary decks. They hit you too hard, and we are dropping thee mana two power guys. If you try for your Stromkirk Noble plan you are just going to die.
Trouble will NOT even do what you are proposing. Unless you burn it on Turn Three, they will have so few cards in their hand they wont even care. Turn three against Blitz or Gruul you don't even wnat to do that. You want to play another Tithe Drinker, Vampire Night Hawk, Stromkirck Captiain who can block well. You want to play removal to try an stablize. You want to do something that effects the doard. If you just Trouble their faces their not going to care and just kill you, since you haven't done anything to stop them. Drawing cards is better in every possible way because then you can get to soemthing stablizes. And if you can draw the cards a turn earlier, by playing Sign in Blood, you can possible play something like a Vampire Nighthawk on turn three before they run you over. When you stablize, Trouble is three mana for 1 damage, or something similar. Trouble is a bad card versus aggro.
Trouble is better, still not good, against control. Since wasting a card on an effect that can just be undone by Sphinx's Revelation or Thragtusk is bad, unless you're using it to kill them off. Instead why not draw extra cards to have them waste cards dealing with threats and losing if they can't deal with those threats?
The point is that Sign in Blood is a million times better than Toil/Trouble because Trouble is so niche, marginal and generally useless, so that the extra utility provided by being able to use that card is not worth all the advantages that are inherently in Sign in Blood's lower casting cost.
You really cant argue that sign in blood shouldnt be in here, you will slowly burn out your hand even in a slow or midrange deck lacking good card draw, and sign in blood is wizards gift to black standard without blue so it really seems needed to me... I tried this kind of thing when dark ascension came out and the lack of card draw killed it. Should be fun to try with sign in blood now.
Hey guys, so I'm going to be taking this list to FNM this week, and I was wondering if you had anymore input before I start play-testing it exhaustively.
I'm torn on the 4 drop slot. We have quite a few options, and none of them stand out to me as obvious best.
Vampire Nocturnus
Olivia Voldaren
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Bloodline Keeper
Sorin
My current list only has 29 Black cards, Nocturnus is a coin flip and betting on tails makes me nervous, would be absolutely awesome when he works though. Voldaren wants more than 4 mana to be able to do something, might be good with crypt ghast and debt, in a more control oriented shell. Aristocrat is, well, we all know her. Keeper, I love this guy, and I really want to run him, but 5 vampires is a lot. In a perfect world I think Lingering Souls would make flying vampire tokens and he'd be a no brainer, as is, we can't play him on curve and expect to flip him for quite a few turns, where as, if Nocturnus comes down, we at least have a 49% chance the impact is immediate. Sorin gives us more resiliency against a board wipe, can spit out 1/1, 2/2, or even 3/2 first strikers given good conditions, and can potentially be another huge clock our opponent has to focus on, instead of us.
I grouped these for a reason, they all want a lot of creatures on the board, attacking for the most part. While a terrifyingly huge Blood Baron with 5 stacks of exalted makes me salivate, I'm not sure if the board will ever be that clogged, and if it is, I'm probably just begging to be Verdict'd. A Helix on a stick is cool, and when she gets up and running it is pretty painful. We don't have counters, I don't think Exava is good here.
Crypt Ghast
Rhox Faithmender
Restoration Angel
These play a little bit more like control, we want to sit into something huge. Resto can't target Baron, the main guy I want to save, but she can protect a Nighthawk, and on curve, too. But if we aren't getting some life and a dead thing out of Nighthawk, I don't know what we're doing with him. Crypt Ghast, no big spells to play, maybe if we ran some Debts.
Rakdos
Alms Beast
Desecration Demon
Spark Trooper
These are the big, mid-range guys that just want to beat on something. A spark trooper into an empty board is heaven, that 12 life swing potentially setting you up for a 10/10 flyer next turn, if your tithe drinkers and nighthawks have done some work. Rakdos, if we get a swing in, lets us cast baron for cheap, so we can have mana open to protect immediately. Alms Beast is big, probably needs skullcracks to support him. Desecration Demon is kind of nice, a big body with evasion, if he attacks we get a bonus sac.
Keep in mind, any of these cards should be adding towards the decks goal.
What is the deck's goal?
My personal goal for this deck is to get out Blood Baron, and protect him while he goes to work. This is a little bit easy, as he already has some built in protection. When looking at serious targeted removal, the only two options left for our opponent are rapid hybridization and mizzium mortars. Stromkirk Captain disables MM, Boros Charm protects against all else. At that point they can unsummon and thought scour, that's about it.
We always need a backup plan, cause its a random game. Nighthawks are pretty big threats on their own, and we potentially want something that can make them bigger threats or win the game better than they could at the 4 drop slot.
A few creatures I really want to try that are not anywhere near the curve:
May want to side in Sire of Insanity, because he seems like a pretty strong win condition if our board state is better, and I hate Sphinx's Rev with a passion.
Silverblade, because double-strike. On a sidenote, does protection from white prevent the soulbond?
Reckoner, good stall time against aggro and midranges.
Knights of Glory/Infamy, more protected creatures that make removal a pain.
How do we get to the point where we have mana and cards available to cast and protect a 5 drop? We have our lifelinkers and draw engine. We protect with lingering souls or discourage swinging with deathtouch firststrikers. The red/black removal suite.
Which four drop builds upon the strengths of the deck, or covers its weaknesses?
What ARE the decks strengths and weaknesses?
Do we need a four drop, or should we play more lower curve spells and let Baron be the bomb?
Thanks for taking the time to read the wall, and any input would be awesome!
Hey guys, so I'm going to be taking this list to FNM this week, and I was wondering if you had anymore input before I start play-testing it exhaustively.
I'm torn on the 4 drop slot. We have quite a few options, and none of them stand out to me as obvious best.
Vampire Nocturnus
Olivia Voldaren
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Bloodline Keeper
Sorin
My current list only has 29 Black cards, Nocturnus is a coin flip and betting on tails makes me nervous, would be absolutely awesome when he works though. Voldaren wants more than 4 mana to be able to do something, might be good with crypt ghast and debt, in a more control oriented shell. Aristocrat is, well, we all know her. Keeper, I love this guy, and I really want to run him, but 5 vampires is a lot. In a perfect world I think Lingering Souls would make flying vampire tokens and he'd be a no brainer, as is, we can't play him on curve and expect to flip him for quite a few turns, where as, if Nocturnus comes down, we at least have a 49% chance the impact is immediate. Sorin gives us more resiliency against a board wipe, can spit out 1/1, 2/2, or even 3/2 first strikers given good conditions, and can potentially be another huge clock our opponent has to focus on, instead of us.
I grouped these for a reason, they all want a lot of creatures on the board, attacking for the most part. While a terrifyingly huge Blood Baron with 5 stacks of exalted makes me salivate, I'm not sure if the board will ever be that clogged, and if it is, I'm probably just begging to be Verdict'd. A Helix on a stick is cool, and when she gets up and running it is pretty painful. We don't have counters, I don't think Exava is good here.
Crypt Ghast
Rhox Faithmender
Restoration Angel
These play a little bit more like control, we want to sit into something huge. Resto can't target Baron, the main guy I want to save, but she can protect a Nighthawk, and on curve, too. But if we aren't getting some life and a dead thing out of Nighthawk, I don't know what we're doing with him. Crypt Ghast, no big spells to play, maybe if we ran some Debts.
Rakdos
Alms Beast
Desecration Demon
Spark Trooper
These are the big, mid-range guys that just want to beat on something. A spark trooper into an empty board is heaven, that 12 life swing potentially setting you up for a 10/10 flyer next turn, if your tithe drinkers and nighthawks have done some work. Rakdos, if we get a swing in, lets us cast baron for cheap, so we can have mana open to protect immediately. Alms Beast is big, probably needs skullcracks to support him. Desecration Demon is kind of nice, a big body with evasion, if he attacks we get a bonus sac.
Keep in mind, any of these cards should be adding towards the decks goal.
What is the deck's goal?
My personal goal for this deck is to get out Blood Baron, and protect him while he goes to work. This is a little bit easy, as he already has some built in protection. When looking at serious targeted removal, the only two options left for our opponent are rapid hybridization and mizzium mortars. Stromkirk Captain disables MM, Boros Charm protects against all else. At that point they can unsummon and thought scour, that's about it.
We always need a backup plan, cause its a random game. Nighthawks are pretty big threats on their own, and we potentially want something that can make them bigger threats or win the game better than they could at the 4 drop slot.
A few creatures I really want to try that are not anywhere near the curve:
May want to side in Sire of Insanity, because he seems like a pretty strong win condition if our board state is better, and I hate Sphinx's Rev with a passion.
Silverblade, because double-strike. On a sidenote, does protection from white prevent the soulbond?
Reckoner, good stall time against aggro and midranges.
Knights of Glory/Infamy, more protected creatures that make removal a pain.
How do we get to the point where we have mana and cards available to cast and protect a 5 drop? We have our lifelinkers and draw engine. We protect with lingering souls or discourage swinging with deathtouch firststrikers. The red/black removal suite.
Which four drop builds upon the strengths of the deck, or covers its weaknesses?
What ARE the decks strengths and weaknesses?
Do we need a four drop, or should we play more lower curve spells and let Baron be the bomb?
Thanks for taking the time to read the wall, and any input would be awesome!
I really think that the quality four drop spells in this deck will be Olivia Voldaren, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Bloodline Keeper. I like this deck idea, but it folds to control if we cant set up a good board position, this can be remedied with the sideboard with cards like Rakdos's Return, but it definitely plays as a midrange deck.
@sacerdotis
Yes blood baron of vizkopa and silverblade paladin can bond. To remember what 'protection from: xxx' protects from, use the accronym D.E.B.T. for damaged, enchanted, blocked, targeted.
So everyone likes sign in blood to "fix" nocturnus but what about underworld connections?
Being able to change the top card of your library every turn seems good. I tested both sign in blood and underworld connections in my BW deck and connections is just way better in the long run.
I played BRW Vampires at the TCG diamond 5K in Michigan this weekend and got 31st going 6-2-1. I lost in the first 2 rounds and drew in the 7th round. I don't recall what I lost to in the first 2 rounds but I played against a wide variety of decks. The draw was against UWR control.
I really wish I had ran a couple Boros Charms in my 75. I think they would have allowed me to be a little more aggressive against the control decks. I liked Vampire Nocturnus but wanted to fit some Sorin, Lord of Innistrads in the main and I feel they play better with Bloodline Keeper. I'm not real happy with Blood Artist but I haven't found/tested a decent replacement yet. I love using Orzhov Charm to bring back a Stromkirk Noble at EOT. I've thought about Sign in Blood but I think I'd really only want to cast it on turn 2 on the play and only if I didn't have a Tithe Drinker or Stromkirk Noble to play. I certainly wouldn't want to pay 2 life for a shock land in order in order to cast it.
I have been talking with people in my play group about building a deck very similar to Draknon's. Has anyone seen the list that Sam Black suggested as a starting point in a recent SCG article? I think that there is alot of potential with this deck and I will be trying out something close to Draknon's
Sam's article is what inspired me to start tinkering with Vampires. I then came here and found this thread. I combined some of the various aspects and made some more adjustments based on card availability and personal preferences. I played several matches against Jund Midrange, Esper Control, and Reanimator while playtesting with friends. I felt like sometimes I would just run out of gas against decks that were good a building card advantage. I was trying to find a solution to the problem when I thought Slayers' Stronghold might be just the card I needed. I tossed 1 into my decklist right before FNM started. It worked much better than I could have ever imagined. I added a second Slayer's Stronghold for the 5K by cutting my only basic land. I'd like to add a 3rd one but I'm not sure the mana-base could support it.
Draknon, do you think you will continue to develop this deck or do you feel that the standard meta is not right for a tribal deck to succeed? I only ask because even though I am able to play test with proxies I know I will need to make a paper investment if I really want to put this deck to the test in my local MTG scene.
Hello everyone. I have been playtesting a list based on Draknon's advise for substitutions and I think the list is pretty solid. Everything he mentioned about Boros charm and adding Sorin MB was correct. I have played mostly against JUND and both versions of the Aristocrats. Tonight I went 3-1 in a Daily event and only felt out of the match I lost because I did not draw a 4th land both games before I was killed. I will post the list I ran tomorrow. It was pretty much all of Draknon's suggestions with a different sideboard.
Draknon, do you really need 25 lands? Totally agree with the changes you'd make. T2 Tithe Drinker into T3 Captain is a pretty strong play. Does Stromkirk Noble even do anything for you? It seems like you really want to go more midrange with Vamps, since all the ones really worth playing the deck for are 3-5 drops... and a random 4 of Noble just seems out of place. I think it would be better served as a removal spell of some kind.
I think the deck preformed well last night but I also believe I got lucky in some scenarios. I agree with Nuclearsunburn that Noble is probably the worst card in the deck at least in the MTGO meta. Playing against hyper aggressive R/G decks felt terrible because he was usually a chump blocker and had no impact on the board. The only redeeming thing is that he can be a way to flip Bloodline Keeper as he adds to the total of vampires you control. I think that this list is OK for now but I will probably be looking to replace the Stromkirk Noble positions with spot removal.
If M14 gives us another good one drop vampire I could see putting SN back into the list but for now he feels really underwhelming though curving out with Stromkirk Noble, T2 Tithe Drinker, T3 Stromkirk Captain is pretty awesome.
I didn't get a chance to play last week. I'll be playing vampires tonight for fnm using the changes in my previous post.
I'm quite fond of the Noble. Sometimes he just wins games by himself. Frequently he gets a swing in and then he lands his 2nd swing because while they heald back a blocker, they didn't expect him to have +1+1 and first strike. The Noble also acts as a chump blocker late game when you don't really want to sac any of your better vamps. He helps buy me time if I stumble on land and acts as a distraction to draw out their removal early allowing my more critical vamps a better shot at life. The Nobles also play great with Orzhov Charm turning it into a threat.
I think Noble can be fine and you bring up some good points I just felt that sometimes he was underwhelming. I am waiting until M14 comes out and we see a full spoiler to know what vamps are going to be coming out. I know that Child of Night and Sengir vampire have been spoiled. CoN seems like a lesser Tithe Drinker but a welcome addition next to a Stromkirk Captain. Any reprints(creature or otherwise) that anyone can think of that will help us out?
Noble underwhelming? For goodness sake during the prime days of zombies we ran **** like diregraf and gravecrawler. I mean these felt underwhelming at time, one came in tapped the other can't block... But damn we still used them.
First of all I'm shocked to see this deck evolve in the way it has. I myself haven't had much success with my original build and had jumped to esper spirits for game day. (BTW terrible mistake on my part.) With that being said though I look forward to trying out Draknon's build with maybe a few changes to the SB because of local meta and one or two changes to the MB for financial reasons.
As far as Noble goes, I think he's one of the better red creatures in the format and very well a decent fit in the archtype. Sure certain decks make him lackluster but if you run into a naya human situation ( which seems to be popular in my area ), He can put in some work.
Been trying vampires since baron hit the card pool.
Personally I just ported old vampires deck. All the slots fit except nothing decent in 2-drop slot past drinkers.
What I like about vampires in current Std is that you can play up to 12 lords and each your creature+lord becomes pretty hard to beat for other creature decks. And 8 lifelinkers maindeck makes you favored against aggro.
Also I strongly recommend nocturnus. Amount of times he won me the game vs. amount of times he did nothing is greatly in favor of former even without the fetches. If I decide to play aristocrat I would leave nocturnus over keeper.
Noble is kinda eh. Without other playable 1-drops it's just too random, with him in starting hand you are aggro, without - midrange.
Any reprints(creature or otherwise) that anyone can think of that will help us out?
Funny enough but that new mythic angel can greatly help this deck. With 8x lifelinkers, extort and triggers from artist your board will grow very quick. Essentially angel is this deck's 4th lord-type creature.
It also is better against tusk than baron because it flies over. Sure, it's easier to kill, but you already have a lot of lords to eat removal.
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Thanks again for all the advice guys. I'm really starting to feel good about some of the options.
I would much rather play Boros Charm T2 than hit myself up for a couple cards, and then nail them for 5 T3.
Good enough for you?
Trouble catches you up against aggro, and punishes control. And, hey, you can still get your two cards for two life if you want!
I highly doubt you've tested the card, at all.
Orzhov Charm target, hits first, gets bigger. No one wants to draw into a 1/1. But ramp decks still play tons of mana dorks, don't they? Consider this ours.
Stromkirk Captain is a must
Stromkirk Noble is a perfect one drop in vamp deck.
Try to make black as your primary color, and run Vampire Nocturnus
Debt to the Deathless doesn't wanted by control deck, so you shouldn't want it. Too expensive for a deck like this.
Blood Baron of Vizkopa is HUGE. There is no way you don't give him 100%.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Nocturnus seemed to cause mana issues and was a bit unreliable. At first I put Exava in thinking it was a vampire, but a 4/4 1st strike haste for four seems good (poosible to play as 3/3 for defense).
Creatures 25
4 Blood Artist
4 Stromkirk Captain
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Olivia Voldaren
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Spells 10
4 Lingering Souls
3 Tragic Slip
3 Dreadbore
Land 25
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Isolated Chapel
2 Clifftop Retreat
3 Cavern of Souls
Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Purify the Grave
3 Slaughter Games
3
No.
Nailing them with Boros Charm is awful on turn two. Against Esper, or Bant I want to keep them up Charm to prect from a wrath. Against Aggro or midrage I want to use the indestrutablity of Double Strike ot force through favorable blocks and gain an advantage that war. Grabbing two cards for two life in infinatly better than wasting a Boros Charm for four damage in an aggressive midrange deck. Period.
You don't race against aggro. You can't race Burning-Tree Emmissary decks. They hit you too hard, and we are dropping thee mana two power guys. If you try for your Stromkirk Noble plan you are just going to die.
Trouble will NOT even do what you are proposing. Unless you burn it on Turn Three, they will have so few cards in their hand they wont even care. Turn three against Blitz or Gruul you don't even wnat to do that. You want to play another Tithe Drinker, Vampire Night Hawk, Stromkirck Captiain who can block well. You want to play removal to try an stablize. You want to do something that effects the doard. If you just Trouble their faces their not going to care and just kill you, since you haven't done anything to stop them. Drawing cards is better in every possible way because then you can get to soemthing stablizes. And if you can draw the cards a turn earlier, by playing Sign in Blood, you can possible play something like a Vampire Nighthawk on turn three before they run you over. When you stablize, Trouble is three mana for 1 damage, or something similar. Trouble is a bad card versus aggro.
Trouble is better, still not good, against control. Since wasting a card on an effect that can just be undone by Sphinx's Revelation or Thragtusk is bad, unless you're using it to kill them off. Instead why not draw extra cards to have them waste cards dealing with threats and losing if they can't deal with those threats?
The point is that Sign in Blood is a million times better than Toil/Trouble because Trouble is so niche, marginal and generally useless, so that the extra utility provided by being able to use that card is not worth all the advantages that are inherently in Sign in Blood's lower casting cost.
UGQuirion DelverGU
RWUhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10209544My American Control PrimerUWR
EDH
UWRZedruu ShenanigansRWU
Sig by DarkKnightCavalier
I'm torn on the 4 drop slot. We have quite a few options, and none of them stand out to me as obvious best.
Vampire Nocturnus
Olivia Voldaren
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Bloodline Keeper
Sorin
My current list only has 29 Black cards, Nocturnus is a coin flip and betting on tails makes me nervous, would be absolutely awesome when he works though. Voldaren wants more than 4 mana to be able to do something, might be good with crypt ghast and debt, in a more control oriented shell. Aristocrat is, well, we all know her. Keeper, I love this guy, and I really want to run him, but 5 vampires is a lot. In a perfect world I think Lingering Souls would make flying vampire tokens and he'd be a no brainer, as is, we can't play him on curve and expect to flip him for quite a few turns, where as, if Nocturnus comes down, we at least have a 49% chance the impact is immediate. Sorin gives us more resiliency against a board wipe, can spit out 1/1, 2/2, or even 3/2 first strikers given good conditions, and can potentially be another huge clock our opponent has to focus on, instead of us.
Non-vamps (yes, we can do that people!)
Hellrider
Sublime Archangel
Exava
Firemane Avenger
I grouped these for a reason, they all want a lot of creatures on the board, attacking for the most part. While a terrifyingly huge Blood Baron with 5 stacks of exalted makes me salivate, I'm not sure if the board will ever be that clogged, and if it is, I'm probably just begging to be Verdict'd. A Helix on a stick is cool, and when she gets up and running it is pretty painful. We don't have counters, I don't think Exava is good here.
Crypt Ghast
Rhox Faithmender
Restoration Angel
These play a little bit more like control, we want to sit into something huge. Resto can't target Baron, the main guy I want to save, but she can protect a Nighthawk, and on curve, too. But if we aren't getting some life and a dead thing out of Nighthawk, I don't know what we're doing with him. Crypt Ghast, no big spells to play, maybe if we ran some Debts.
Rakdos
Alms Beast
Desecration Demon
Spark Trooper
These are the big, mid-range guys that just want to beat on something. A spark trooper into an empty board is heaven, that 12 life swing potentially setting you up for a 10/10 flyer next turn, if your tithe drinkers and nighthawks have done some work. Rakdos, if we get a swing in, lets us cast baron for cheap, so we can have mana open to protect immediately. Alms Beast is big, probably needs skullcracks to support him. Desecration Demon is kind of nice, a big body with evasion, if he attacks we get a bonus sac.
Keep in mind, any of these cards should be adding towards the decks goal.
What is the deck's goal?
My personal goal for this deck is to get out Blood Baron, and protect him while he goes to work. This is a little bit easy, as he already has some built in protection. When looking at serious targeted removal, the only two options left for our opponent are rapid hybridization and mizzium mortars. Stromkirk Captain disables MM, Boros Charm protects against all else. At that point they can unsummon and thought scour, that's about it.
We always need a backup plan, cause its a random game. Nighthawks are pretty big threats on their own, and we potentially want something that can make them bigger threats or win the game better than they could at the 4 drop slot.
A few creatures I really want to try that are not anywhere near the curve:
May want to side in Sire of Insanity, because he seems like a pretty strong win condition if our board state is better, and I hate Sphinx's Rev with a passion.
Silverblade, because double-strike. On a sidenote, does protection from white prevent the soulbond?
Reckoner, good stall time against aggro and midranges.
Knights of Glory/Infamy, more protected creatures that make removal a pain.
How do we get to the point where we have mana and cards available to cast and protect a 5 drop? We have our lifelinkers and draw engine. We protect with lingering souls or discourage swinging with deathtouch firststrikers. The red/black removal suite.
Which four drop builds upon the strengths of the deck, or covers its weaknesses?
What ARE the decks strengths and weaknesses?
Do we need a four drop, or should we play more lower curve spells and let Baron be the bomb?
Thanks for taking the time to read the wall, and any input would be awesome!
I really think that the quality four drop spells in this deck will be Olivia Voldaren, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Bloodline Keeper. I like this deck idea, but it folds to control if we cant set up a good board position, this can be remedied with the sideboard with cards like Rakdos's Return, but it definitely plays as a midrange deck.
I am still not sold on Vampire Nocturnus because of the inconsistency, and I think that Stromkirk Captain is a must in this deck.
Would you mind posting the decklist you are taking to FNM?
Yes blood baron of vizkopa and silverblade paladin can bond. To remember what 'protection from: xxx' protects from, use the accronym D.E.B.T. for damaged, enchanted, blocked, targeted.
Being able to change the top card of your library every turn seems good. I tested both sign in blood and underworld connections in my BW deck and connections is just way better in the long run.
This is the list I played.
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Tithe Drinker
3 Blood Artist
4 Stromkirk Captain
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Vampire Nocturnus
2 Bloodline Keeper
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Orzhov Charm
1 Dreadbore
Land
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Rest in Peace
4 Sin Collector
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Assemble the Legion
The Slayers' Strongholds were easily the MVP's of the deck. Changes I would make based on my experience in the tournament are:
-1 Isolated Chapel +1 Clifftop Retreat
-2 Vampire Nocturnus +2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
-1 Vampire Nocturnus +1 Bloodline Keeper
-1 Blood Artist +1 Boros Charm
-1 Orzhov Charm +1 Boros Charm
In the Sideboard I would cut 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and add 1 Boros Charm.
I really wish I had ran a couple Boros Charms in my 75. I think they would have allowed me to be a little more aggressive against the control decks. I liked Vampire Nocturnus but wanted to fit some Sorin, Lord of Innistrads in the main and I feel they play better with Bloodline Keeper. I'm not real happy with Blood Artist but I haven't found/tested a decent replacement yet. I love using Orzhov Charm to bring back a Stromkirk Noble at EOT. I've thought about Sign in Blood but I think I'd really only want to cast it on turn 2 on the play and only if I didn't have a Tithe Drinker or Stromkirk Noble to play. I certainly wouldn't want to pay 2 life for a shock land in order in order to cast it.
If M14 gives us another good one drop vampire I could see putting SN back into the list but for now he feels really underwhelming though curving out with Stromkirk Noble, T2 Tithe Drinker, T3 Stromkirk Captain is pretty awesome.
Here is the list:
4x Stromkirk Noble
2x Blood Aritst
4x Stromkirk Captain
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Bloodline Keeper
3x Falkenrath Aristocrat
3x Blood Baron
2x Sorin LOI
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Godless Shrine
4x Blood Crypt
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Sacred Foundry
1x Slayer's Stonghold
4x Orzhov Charm
1x Dreadbore
1x Boros Charm
2x Curse of Death's Hold
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Olivia
3x Sin Collector
1x Boros Charm
2x Blood Artist
I'm quite fond of the Noble. Sometimes he just wins games by himself. Frequently he gets a swing in and then he lands his 2nd swing because while they heald back a blocker, they didn't expect him to have +1+1 and first strike. The Noble also acts as a chump blocker late game when you don't really want to sac any of your better vamps. He helps buy me time if I stumble on land and acts as a distraction to draw out their removal early allowing my more critical vamps a better shot at life. The Nobles also play great with Orzhov Charm turning it into a threat.
As far as Noble goes, I think he's one of the better red creatures in the format and very well a decent fit in the archtype. Sure certain decks make him lackluster but if you run into a naya human situation ( which seems to be popular in my area ), He can put in some work.
Personally I just ported old vampires deck. All the slots fit except nothing decent in 2-drop slot past drinkers.
What I like about vampires in current Std is that you can play up to 12 lords and each your creature+lord becomes pretty hard to beat for other creature decks. And 8 lifelinkers maindeck makes you favored against aggro.
4x Stromkirk Captain
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Bloodline keeper
3x Vampire nocturnus
4x Blood baron of vizkopa
4x sign in blood
3x dead weight
2x dreadbore
2x murder
2x rakdos' return
8x br lands
8x bw lands
5x swamps
2x slaughter games
1x rakdos' return
4x sin collector
4x appetite for brains
2x underworld connections
2x can't remember
Also I strongly recommend nocturnus. Amount of times he won me the game vs. amount of times he did nothing is greatly in favor of former even without the fetches. If I decide to play aristocrat I would leave nocturnus over keeper.
Noble is kinda eh. Without other playable 1-drops it's just too random, with him in starting hand you are aggro, without - midrange.
Funny enough but that new mythic angel can greatly help this deck. With 8x lifelinkers, extort and triggers from artist your board will grow very quick. Essentially angel is this deck's 4th lord-type creature.
It also is better against tusk than baron because it flies over. Sure, it's easier to kill, but you already have a lot of lords to eat removal.