Saint Traft is nice against deck with a lot of spot-removal, few creatures and few sweepers, since it catches them unaware. Things like, ironically, Esper Control have more difficulties fighting it. However, most of the decks in the meta run a lot of creatures that trade favorably with Geist, be it Thraggy, Centaur Healer, Loxodon Smiter, Olivia, Nighthawk, the list goes on. Let's just say he isn't well-placed in this meta.
Saint Traft is nice against deck with a lot of spot-removal, few creatures and few sweepers, since it catches them unaware. Things like, ironically, Esper Control have more difficulties fighting it. However, most of the decks in the meta run a lot of creatures that trade favorably with Geist, be it Thraggy, Centaur Healer, Loxodon Smiter, Olivia, Nighthawk, the list goes on. Let's just say he isn't well-placed in this meta.
but still its price is $30 a pop i wonder why..oh yeah btw guys wth happen on sphinx's revelation from $6 rose up to $21 a pop...
Geist dominated last Standard. Retailers (and players) know very well how good it can be. It's like Snapcaster. Not a lot of deck run them right now, but if there's a shift in the metagame, it could very well be the new thing to have. Selling them for 5$ becuase they don't have any demand could be very damaging if Gatecrash brings so much tools for Tempo that Geist is worth 30$, for example.
As for Revelation, people realized how good it was and any deck with UW in it run 1-3 copies. Hence the price tag.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Despite the lack of Duels I never find myself too mana screwed. Maybe one game every so often. But yeah so my win conditions are Army and Archon/Drogskol.
Why oh why would you run 4 Gather the Townsfolk and only 2 Lingering Souls? Reverse those immediately. Also, Dissipate instead of Cancel. Forbidden Alchemy instead of Divination too, imo.
Originally I was running 4 because of the lower mana cost, to stop a lot of turn 2 beats, but yeah I can see your point. The Divination were originally a test, but yeah alchemy is better. Added in a Liliana to test her out, in this deck, replacing the defang. And on Cancel yeah dissipate sort of forgot about dissipate for some reason.
*sorry about formatting, couldnt figure out how to make it look nice with the deck tool. This was the best i could do.
beat human reanimator, BR Zombies, a janky BW exalted that was good enough to get to the semifianls, a rouge deck, and mono red. Lost to UB zombies. had awful, awful hands, mulligan to 5 both times. Just awful hands. the BR zombie matchup was really difficult, need to figure out some tech to fight zombies better. This deck does well when the game drags on, and murders control, but has a hard time stabalizing against aggro sometimes. Sideboard needs work and i am thinking about adding in a curse of death's hold in the main. any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
I see you went with eight 'walkers and four Lingering as your only wincon (along with Nephalia). You also filled up the rest with answers and card draw. I see where you'd have difficulties against aggro; your deck is tailored to tear through control. If you want a good matchup against aggro, you'll have to lower your curve a bit, maybe post-sideboard if you like the way the deck is playing out.
Good cards against aggro include Tragic Slip, Feeling of Dread and Doomed Traveler. The first will deal with X/1s creatures or better if you lost a token this turn (very good against BR), the second will be good against any aggro deck (think of it as "gain 6 life" with flashback that can be much more against Hellrider or reanimator), the third is good against pretty much any land creature you want to stall.
Curse is really, really good against aggro to lock them out of the game. It isn't very good in the early game (obviously), so it depends on when your deck seems to stumble. If you have a good late-game against aggro but just need to get there, you're better off with the previous suggestions. If you often drag the game and they kill you with critters later on (like Aristocrat or Hellrider), then Curse may be better for you.
Have you considered Staff of Nin? Just throwing that out there. Do you have any trouble with Cavern (since you run 3 Dissipate) or do you always have a good target? I'm asking because your 'walkers seems to make you tapout qutie often with the curve they ask for and combined with Cavern, it may be the first thing to remove if you have difficulties against aggro.
The initial plan was to use the Walkers and Lingering Souls to stall out the board while i found board wipers or detention spheres to handle their threats, all to durdle while i mill them with Drownyard. In the end, it ended up with me drowning them out half the time and Sorin Emblem + Spirits and Vampire tokens killing them the other half the time. The killing them with tokes felt weird in a control deck but it worked so hey.
I decided that I am 100% going to add one Curse to the main board and another to the side. I think tragic slip is a great idea, because for example when Hellkite hits he kills off all my spirits so that is an automatic morbid trigger. I did run Feeling of Dread side and it worked a little. Purify the grave helped keep Geralf's from undying.
I agree Staff would be nice, but i also agree my curve is a little high so I may not be able to put in another 6 drop, especially if I am adding Curse. I will probably take out the two think twice and add in a curse and a 27th land. That may be incorrect but I am not sure what else to take out, and it felt like another land would be nice. I am used to playing Bant with 25 lands, but I have farseek in Bant, and I didn't realize how much I would miss Farseek until I started playing the games at FNM. So I think I really need an additional land, probably evolving wilds.
The initial plan was to use the Walkers and Lingering Souls to stall out the board while i found board wipers or detention spheres to handle their threats, all to durdle while i mill them with Drownyard. In the end, it ended up with me drowning them out half the time and Sorin Emblem + Spirits and Vampire tokens killing them the other half the time. The killing them with tokes felt weird in a control deck but it worked so hey.
I decided that I am 100% going to add one Curse to the main board and another to the side. I think tragic slip is a great idea, because for example when Hellkite hits he kills off all my spirits so that is an automatic morbid trigger. I did run Feeling of Dread side and it worked a little. Purify the grave helped keep Geralf's from undying.
I agree Staff would be nice, but i also agree my curve is a little high so I may not be able to put in another 6 drop, especially if I am adding Curse. I will probably take out the two think twice and add in a curse and a 27th land. That may be incorrect but I am not sure what else to take out, and it felt like another land would be nice. I am used to playing Bant with 25 lands, but I have farseek in Bant, and I didn't realize how much I would miss Farseek until I started playing the games at FNM. So I think I really need an additional land, probably evolving wilds.
An evolving wilds or two is a good idea because it allows you to fetch for whatever basic you happen to need, but most importantly it allows you to shuffle your library and thin your deck of another land (which is always good).
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Have you considered Azorius Keyrune? You could add four and cut two lands and your curve would still work nicely. You'd have a way to go from three to five while fixing your mana, and the 2/2 survives through sweepers.
I wouldn't play 4 Revelations. You don't want more than one in your opening hand, so I'd play 3.
I thought about the keyrunes but im not entirely sure. maybe. but with the reveations, i dont mind even haveing one in the opening hand. there is no problem casting it for 5 mana to draw 2 and gain two, and at 6 mana it is really efficient. If i ran three i would be less likely to cast it at 5 mana and it would be more of a mull if it ended up in my hand.
another cool thing was that i had the mana to azorious charm + drownyard as removal way more often than i ever thought i would
also i was thinking and i think thought scour is probably better in this deck than think twice.
Yeah, having two would be an issue, but that rarely happens and i just mulligan. In practice i still only hit maybe one rev a game. And you are right about TT, i was playing more with the deck tonight and it felt good. My thoughts on Thought scour was it is a turn one play and you get value out of the milling since drownyard is the main win con. But I like holding up mana for azorius charm and then using think twice on end step.
I was thinking about cutting a sorin and a jace leaving me with 3 sorin 2 jace 1 tamiyo. This would lead into more control and land to ramp into thing like staff. Also i like the idea of Nighthawk SB, and I know this was disscussed a while ago on this thread, but what was the concensus? is BB to hard a mana cost to cast? epecially with 4 colorless and no shocks?Seemed like a good SB choice for mono red and potentially zombies and can work as a removal spell with life gain against the baddies like thundermaw hellrider and aristocrat.
@yamijoey i was thinking about digging up my foil army of the damned for this deck as a 1-of. I figure i.will like it more than the singleton entreat the angels damaja runs in his list.
Also thought scour becomes a win condition with a tamiyo emblem...which is nice if you find yourself needing to rush your opponent's deck into their graveyard
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
You don't need Revelation until turn 7-8, in which case you really don'T want two clugging your first hand.
To cast Nighthawk on turn 3, you'd need two thirds of your lands producing black mana. Look up your mana base, that's not happening. With four lands, you need half of them. More likely, but not guaranteed. Without Shocks, I wouldn't put that one in there.
YamiJoey : His deck prefers TT over TS due to the low amount of flashbacking goodies and no Snappy. In other builds, TS would be superior, but you'd need way more enablers than that.
Army of the Dead : Still a great finisher against Control. I'm maindecking two, but I'm playing tapout. Dropping one asks for a sweeper, two if you get to ten mana, else you've won next turn (especially with Sorin's emblems).
I think it would be cool to disscuss the ones that can go in the esper control shell. If you want to discuss them in general there is another forum for that
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
One of the plays that scares me is an aggro/midrange deck playing Slaughter Games on turn 4 naming Supreme Verdict. I've had that blowout happen a couple times. I'm running Terminus and Appetite to try and prevent it but I think I might want a third terminus to prevent it, on the other hand that might be over sideboarding.
My other issue is the mana. I have big problems with things coming in tapped, especially Isolated Chapels. In my meta I'm the only one running control so it's very possible that I can remove the drownyards in favor of basics. What do people think of that?
If you remove the Drownyards I think it may affect your win ratio in that you would not have a very solid win condition anymore. It can be pretty hard to kill them with 1/1 spirits. But that is just my opinion on that
I do believe you need atleast 26 lands in this deck, maybe even 28. Because there is no acceleration in these colors it is really important to make land drops
26 lands is a must, unless you're playing a playset of Keyrunes.
If they play Slaughter Games naming Verdict, you're probably winning. If it's BR, they're playing nothing on turn four, which is unforgivable in an aggro deck. If they're running Jund, They're not naming Sorin or Tamiyo or other real threats. Not very impressive IMO.
I wouldn't play only Verdict main. I'd play at least one copy of Terminus, if not 2. In my own deck, I'm doing a 3/2 split and I'm pretty happy about the results.
Not convinced that with so few Sorin, Lingering should be a four-of, considering Hellkite and such. I'd cut only one copy.
I'd play only Dissipate as your counter, not Syncopate.
Drogskol in the side is an interesting choice. In which matchup do you side him in?
Drownyard definitely has to stay. I'd change an Island for a Swamp, considering you have four UW Shocks. It'll help your lands come into play untapped.
Somehow I've missed the two replies to my other post... I checked the rules and it's not allowed until the full spoilers are up, so no talking about a certain Orzhov mythic :-p
If you remove the Drownyards I think it may affect your win ratio in that you would not have a very solid win condition anymore. It can be pretty hard to kill them with 1/1 spirits. But that is just my opinion on that
I do believe you need atleast 26 lands in this deck, maybe even 28. Because there is no acceleration in these colors it is really important to make land drops
Drownyard is a pretty slow win condition as it is. It also leaves me vulnerable to RDW and Reanimator which are very popular in my meta. RDW sides in Devil's Play while Drownyard against Reanimator is just a poor idea (unless RiP is on the field). Since the deck tops out at 5 other than Revelations, which draws you into lands, and is usually cast the first time for X=2 or 3 anyways I haven't noticed a huge need for more. I can see arguments for 26 but 28 seems way too high.
26 lands is a must, unless you're playing a playset of Keyrunes.
I don't like the keyrunes so they're out, I'll think about going up to 26 land. That would solve the coming into play tapped issue but I need to find some cuts to make that happen.
If they play Slaughter Games naming Verdict, you're probably winning. If it's BR, they're playing nothing on turn four, which is unforgivable in an aggro deck. If they're running Jund, They're not naming Sorin or Tamiyo or other real threats. Not very impressive IMO.
The game can be won without verdict, but it's a lot easier with it.
I wouldn't play only Verdict main. I'd play at least one copy of Terminus, if not 2. In my own deck, I'm doing a 3/2 split and I'm pretty happy about the results.
I've thought about this, I really dislike Terminus though because it costs 6. In some matches it's worth bringing in however.
Not convinced that with so few Sorin, Lingering should be a four-of, considering Hellkite and such. I'd cut only one copy.
Despite RDW being popular in my meta, Hellkite sees very little play (most people don't have the money to be spending on it). I tend to use the spirits as blockers more than anything though. Extras can provide an offense once Sorin gets going but their main purpose is to save me life. As a result I never have more than 2 on the field for a Hellkite in the first place. That said, I'm looking at cutting one copy for a land.
I'd play only Dissipate as your counter, not Syncopate.
Point taken.
Drogskol in the side is an interesting choice. In which matchup do you side him in?
I bring him in for an additional win condition when Rest in Peace comes in. Because RiP shuts down the part of Tamiyo that can actually win games, I take her out in favor of another win condition. I've also found him to be pretty good in the Mono Black Control matchup. I think it might be leading me to oversideboard the Reanimator matchup but it seems like a decent card since he walls hordes of reanimated Thragtusks, gains life, and gives me cards.
Drownyard definitely has to stay. I'd change an Island for a Swamp, considering you have four UW Shocks. It'll help your lands come into play untapped.
I'm going to add a Swamp for a Lingering Souls which brings me to 25 and gives me 9 cards that make each checkland come in untapped. I think I'll try that for now, 26 land seems high to me unless running more than 2 Drownyards.
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but still its price is $30 a pop i wonder why..oh yeah btw guys wth happen on sphinx's revelation from $6 rose up to $21 a pop...
DECKS
STANDARD:
R/RAMP AGGRO
RRDW
LEGACY:
RGOBLIN SWARMR
CAFFINATOGSC
R//LAND DESTROYER
As for Revelation, people realized how good it was and any deck with UW in it run 1-3 copies. Hence the price tag.
I postponed my purchase in $4, and realize it goes to $20. Massive regret.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
2 Judge' Familiar
1 Goldnight Redeemer
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Archon of the Triumvirate
Sorceries
4 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Divination
2 Lingering Souls
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Army of the Damned
4 Thought Scour
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Tribute to Hunger
2 Murder
2 Cancel
Enchantments
1 Defang
3 Arrest
1 Underworld Connections
2 Azorius Keyrune
1 Chromatic Lantern
Lands
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Azorius Guildgate
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Nephalia Drownyard
7 Plains
6 Island
6 Swamp
Despite the lack of Duels I never find myself too mana screwed. Maybe one game every so often. But yeah so my win conditions are Army and Archon/Drogskol.
2 Judge' Familiar
1 Goldnight Redeemer
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Archon of the Triumvirate
Sorceries
2 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Army of the Damned
4 Thought Scour
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Tribute to Hunger
2 Murder
2 Dissipate
Enchantments
3 Arrest
1 Underworld Connections
Artifacts
2 Azorius Keyrune
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Azorius Guildgate
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Nephalia Drownyard
7 Plains
6 Island
6 Swamp
Planeswalkers:
Spells:
Land:
*sorry about formatting, couldnt figure out how to make it look nice with the deck tool. This was the best i could do.
beat human reanimator, BR Zombies, a janky BW exalted that was good enough to get to the semifianls, a rouge deck, and mono red. Lost to UB zombies. had awful, awful hands, mulligan to 5 both times. Just awful hands. the BR zombie matchup was really difficult, need to figure out some tech to fight zombies better. This deck does well when the game drags on, and murders control, but has a hard time stabalizing against aggro sometimes. Sideboard needs work and i am thinking about adding in a curse of death's hold in the main. any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
Good cards against aggro include Tragic Slip, Feeling of Dread and Doomed Traveler. The first will deal with X/1s creatures or better if you lost a token this turn (very good against BR), the second will be good against any aggro deck (think of it as "gain 6 life" with flashback that can be much more against Hellrider or reanimator), the third is good against pretty much any land creature you want to stall.
Curse is really, really good against aggro to lock them out of the game. It isn't very good in the early game (obviously), so it depends on when your deck seems to stumble. If you have a good late-game against aggro but just need to get there, you're better off with the previous suggestions. If you often drag the game and they kill you with critters later on (like Aristocrat or Hellrider), then Curse may be better for you.
Have you considered Staff of Nin? Just throwing that out there. Do you have any trouble with Cavern (since you run 3 Dissipate) or do you always have a good target? I'm asking because your 'walkers seems to make you tapout qutie often with the curve they ask for and combined with Cavern, it may be the first thing to remove if you have difficulties against aggro.
Hope that helps!
I decided that I am 100% going to add one Curse to the main board and another to the side. I think tragic slip is a great idea, because for example when Hellkite hits he kills off all my spirits so that is an automatic morbid trigger. I did run Feeling of Dread side and it worked a little. Purify the grave helped keep Geralf's from undying.
I agree Staff would be nice, but i also agree my curve is a little high so I may not be able to put in another 6 drop, especially if I am adding Curse. I will probably take out the two think twice and add in a curse and a 27th land. That may be incorrect but I am not sure what else to take out, and it felt like another land would be nice. I am used to playing Bant with 25 lands, but I have farseek in Bant, and I didn't realize how much I would miss Farseek until I started playing the games at FNM. So I think I really need an additional land, probably evolving wilds.
An evolving wilds or two is a good idea because it allows you to fetch for whatever basic you happen to need, but most importantly it allows you to shuffle your library and thin your deck of another land (which is always good).
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I wouldn't play 4 Revelations. You don't want more than one in your opening hand, so I'd play 3.
another cool thing was that i had the mana to azorious charm + drownyard as removal way more often than i ever thought i would
also i was thinking and i think thought scour is probably better in this deck than think twice.
Having two Revelations in your opening seven is problematic against any aggro deck; they will run over you before you even get to six mana.
I was thinking about cutting a sorin and a jace leaving me with 3 sorin 2 jace 1 tamiyo. This would lead into more control and land to ramp into thing like staff. Also i like the idea of Nighthawk SB, and I know this was disscussed a while ago on this thread, but what was the concensus? is BB to hard a mana cost to cast? epecially with 4 colorless and no shocks?Seemed like a good SB choice for mono red and potentially zombies and can work as a removal spell with life gain against the baddies like thundermaw hellrider and aristocrat.
Also thought scour becomes a win condition with a tamiyo emblem...which is nice if you find yourself needing to rush your opponent's deck into their graveyard
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
To cast Nighthawk on turn 3, you'd need two thirds of your lands producing black mana. Look up your mana base, that's not happening. With four lands, you need half of them. More likely, but not guaranteed. Without Shocks, I wouldn't put that one in there.
YamiJoey : His deck prefers TT over TS due to the low amount of flashbacking goodies and no Snappy. In other builds, TS would be superior, but you'd need way more enablers than that.
Army of the Dead : Still a great finisher against Control. I'm maindecking two, but I'm playing tapout. Dropping one asks for a sweeper, two if you get to ten mana, else you've won next turn (especially with Sorin's emblems).
i don't think it's allowed
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Nephalia Drownyard
Artifacts 1
1 Elixir of Immortality
Enchantments 5
2 Detention Sphere
3 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Spells 23
2 Ultimate Price
4 Lingering Souls
3 Azorius Charm
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Rest in Peace
2 Curse of Echoes
2 Drogskol Reaver
2 Terminus
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Appetite for Brains
One of the plays that scares me is an aggro/midrange deck playing Slaughter Games on turn 4 naming Supreme Verdict. I've had that blowout happen a couple times. I'm running Terminus and Appetite to try and prevent it but I think I might want a third terminus to prevent it, on the other hand that might be over sideboarding.
My other issue is the mana. I have big problems with things coming in tapped, especially Isolated Chapels. In my meta I'm the only one running control so it's very possible that I can remove the drownyards in favor of basics. What do people think of that?
I do believe you need atleast 26 lands in this deck, maybe even 28. Because there is no acceleration in these colors it is really important to make land drops
If they play Slaughter Games naming Verdict, you're probably winning. If it's BR, they're playing nothing on turn four, which is unforgivable in an aggro deck. If they're running Jund, They're not naming Sorin or Tamiyo or other real threats. Not very impressive IMO.
I wouldn't play only Verdict main. I'd play at least one copy of Terminus, if not 2. In my own deck, I'm doing a 3/2 split and I'm pretty happy about the results.
Not convinced that with so few Sorin, Lingering should be a four-of, considering Hellkite and such. I'd cut only one copy.
I'd play only Dissipate as your counter, not Syncopate.
Drogskol in the side is an interesting choice. In which matchup do you side him in?
Drownyard definitely has to stay. I'd change an Island for a Swamp, considering you have four UW Shocks. It'll help your lands come into play untapped.
Drownyard is a pretty slow win condition as it is. It also leaves me vulnerable to RDW and Reanimator which are very popular in my meta. RDW sides in Devil's Play while Drownyard against Reanimator is just a poor idea (unless RiP is on the field). Since the deck tops out at 5 other than Revelations, which draws you into lands, and is usually cast the first time for X=2 or 3 anyways I haven't noticed a huge need for more. I can see arguments for 26 but 28 seems way too high.
I don't like the keyrunes so they're out, I'll think about going up to 26 land. That would solve the coming into play tapped issue but I need to find some cuts to make that happen.
The game can be won without verdict, but it's a lot easier with it.
I've thought about this, I really dislike Terminus though because it costs 6. In some matches it's worth bringing in however.
Despite RDW being popular in my meta, Hellkite sees very little play (most people don't have the money to be spending on it). I tend to use the spirits as blockers more than anything though. Extras can provide an offense once Sorin gets going but their main purpose is to save me life. As a result I never have more than 2 on the field for a Hellkite in the first place. That said, I'm looking at cutting one copy for a land.
Point taken.
I bring him in for an additional win condition when Rest in Peace comes in. Because RiP shuts down the part of Tamiyo that can actually win games, I take her out in favor of another win condition. I've also found him to be pretty good in the Mono Black Control matchup. I think it might be leading me to oversideboard the Reanimator matchup but it seems like a decent card since he walls hordes of reanimated Thragtusks, gains life, and gives me cards.
I'm going to add a Swamp for a Lingering Souls which brings me to 25 and gives me 9 cards that make each checkland come in untapped. I think I'll try that for now, 26 land seems high to me unless running more than 2 Drownyards.