I know it's not flash, but have you looked at Quirion Dryad? I'm building a deck simular to this, and I focused on her as a means to get out early and control/pump her. Idk, maybe it forces you to build the deck more around her than just draw go, but with as much instant speed blue you go going here she can become house. Sorry of this is considered an awful idea, just wondering your take.
So, what you're saying is simply that you'd rather this be a more counter spell-centered deck, and not very creature-heavy?
Precisely.
@megatog
Bone to Ash is a necessary evil. The format is filled with creatures, so the fact that it can only counter a creature spell is fine. The fact that it draws me a card is really big. Decks like these need to be able to stay ahead on cards. Counterspells are 1 for 1. If I can 2 for 1 the opponent, thats a step towards winning.
They can be sided out against control, and even then, they still have play vs them. Most control decks are running creatures. It makes sense to want Yeva in this spot since they have the same cmc.
@llyno
I like Quirion Dryad, a lot. In fact its one of my favorite cards ever. I play it in BUG Tempo and love it. In the tempo list, Im playing 2 and sometimes even 3 spells per turn so it grows fast. In this flash list, Im playing 1 spell per turn, if that. So it is highly possible that the Dryad could just sit there and accumulate 1 or 2 counters over 4-5 turns. Perhaps I will try it out, but I dont see it being that great here.
You have alot of permission and some other reactive cards, but as you know, its really important to have cards, and also really important to have something to do in case you don't need to counter or bounce anything on a turn. I haven't played the deck at all, but 4 Think Twice and 2 Bone to Ash doesn't look like enough draw.
In a similar vein, perhaps Forbidden Alchemy? Again, just for the sake of card advantage.
Bone to Ash is a necessary evil. The format is filled with creatures, so the fact that it can only counter a creature spell is fine. The fact that it draws me a card is really big. Decks like these need to be able to stay ahead on cards. Counterspells are 1 for 1. If I can 2 for 1 the opponent, thats a step towards winning.
They can be sided out against control, and even then, they still have play vs them. Most control decks are running creatures. It makes sense to want Yeva in this spot since they have the same cmc.
@llyno
I like Quirion Dryad, a lot. In fact its one of my favorite cards ever. I play it in BUG Tempo and love it. In the tempo list, Im playing 2 and sometimes even 3 spells per turn so it grows fast. In this flash list, Im playing 1 spell per turn, if that. So it is highly possible that the Dryad could just sit there and accumulate 1 or 2 counters over 4-5 turns. Perhaps I will try it out, but I dont see it being that great here.
The question has to be asked, Why a counter spell heavy deck when you can do a U/G flash deck with more creatures?? Let us get inside your mine on why you want to do so many counterspells. I am not criticizing it, it just goes against what is commonly thought of in this meta. When U/W flash had 8 to 9 counterspells, decks just started inserting more cavern of souls and the deck flat out died. UWR flash decks now are not using that many counterspells anymore, but are becoming more proactive with burn, and Boros reckoner allowing themselves to get a board presense.
Is it because you think it is fun to sit behind counters?
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Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
I played RDW for a few months. Most recently, Ive been playing my own version of GB Rock. Now, Id like to play some permission.
even though right now it is terrible to play permission?
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
I suggest testing out the deck a few times before you call it terrible. Not many decks are running Cavern of Souls.
you obviously do not play at my FNM where we have 50 plus people playing and I would say 35 of them of Cavern of souls in there deck, and the reason is because U/W flash was so popular when it was out that people did not want to lose to a deck that just sits backs and punishes you for not playing cavern of souls.
And the defense of Test the deck out before you call it terrible is one of those kiddy defenses of basically saying "Nuh Uhh, your just a poopy head". I am not saying this to be mean, but telling you why people are reacting to your responses the way they are. Rather then take it constructively, you call people idiots and bad magic players.
So I will turn this around on you, why don't you just test what people are suggesting, take a bit of your own medicine, and see where they are coming from. If 20 people are telling you one thing, it is probably for a reason. You can still run a deck you want to run, you can still be reactive to what your opponent is doing, it can still have a little bit of permission, but to go all out on a strategy that has not worked in years, and is especially tough to run right now seems like your are just being stubborn.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Actually youre right on one thing xover, I dont play at an fnm with 50 plus people. I play at fnms with usually over 60 people.
Metagames can be diverse. Like Im saying for what seems like the 100th time, people are not running Cavern as much as before. All the fast aggro decks and all the 3 and 4 color midrange decks are staying far away from that card.
The only person thats playing kiddy games here is you. If you dont have anything to suggest about the 75 cards in my deck, then just go away. Simple as that.
I have taken many comments in this thread constructively. Others, I have chosen to brush off because they simply are not good ideas.
I agree with Mike about Cavern. It's the same with my meta, no one plays it unless they have a dedicated tribal aggro like G/W Humans. All aggro decks in my meta are made up of a variety of different creature types so playing Cavern actually slows them down and all the control decks don't need Cavern.
Even though I was one of the ones not agreeing with this deck earlier, if he sees that his Meta has forgot Permission and that people won't be expecting it at this point, more power to Mike for seeing that and wanting to try and shake things up.
5 five drops with 23 mana seems strange especially with 2 six drops even with farseeks and arbor elf. I feel like you should go more draw-go or heavier creature base to ensure consistency with Zegana
edit:
I'm not really speaking in terms of your list as far as particular cards go just consistency based on your mana and what not. Take that with a grain of salt though because I haven't sleeved up your list so it might be different in practice than is my head
WUBRGUnexpected Results
WBRAggro Burn Flicker
EDH:
GOmnath, Locust of Mana (Retired)
BUSygg, River Cutthroat
RBosh, Iron Golem
Precisely.
@megatog
Bone to Ash is a necessary evil. The format is filled with creatures, so the fact that it can only counter a creature spell is fine. The fact that it draws me a card is really big. Decks like these need to be able to stay ahead on cards. Counterspells are 1 for 1. If I can 2 for 1 the opponent, thats a step towards winning.
They can be sided out against control, and even then, they still have play vs them. Most control decks are running creatures. It makes sense to want Yeva in this spot since they have the same cmc.
@llyno
I like Quirion Dryad, a lot. In fact its one of my favorite cards ever. I play it in BUG Tempo and love it. In the tempo list, Im playing 2 and sometimes even 3 spells per turn so it grows fast. In this flash list, Im playing 1 spell per turn, if that. So it is highly possible that the Dryad could just sit there and accumulate 1 or 2 counters over 4-5 turns. Perhaps I will try it out, but I dont see it being that great here.
You have alot of permission and some other reactive cards, but as you know, its really important to have cards, and also really important to have something to do in case you don't need to counter or bounce anything on a turn. I haven't played the deck at all, but 4 Think Twice and 2 Bone to Ash doesn't look like enough draw.
In a similar vein, perhaps Forbidden Alchemy? Again, just for the sake of card advantage.
However, Forbidden Alchemy is not something I have considered, but I am now. Good idea.
The question has to be asked, Why a counter spell heavy deck when you can do a U/G flash deck with more creatures?? Let us get inside your mine on why you want to do so many counterspells. I am not criticizing it, it just goes against what is commonly thought of in this meta. When U/W flash had 8 to 9 counterspells, decks just started inserting more cavern of souls and the deck flat out died. UWR flash decks now are not using that many counterspells anymore, but are becoming more proactive with burn, and Boros reckoner allowing themselves to get a board presense.
Is it because you think it is fun to sit behind counters?
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
This, pretty much.
I played RDW for a few months. Most recently, Ive been playing my own version of GB Rock. Now, Id like to play some permission.
even though right now it is terrible to play permission?
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Its an fnm deck man.
I suggest testing out the deck a few times before you call it terrible. Not many decks are running Cavern of Souls.
you obviously do not play at my FNM where we have 50 plus people playing and I would say 35 of them of Cavern of souls in there deck, and the reason is because U/W flash was so popular when it was out that people did not want to lose to a deck that just sits backs and punishes you for not playing cavern of souls.
And the defense of Test the deck out before you call it terrible is one of those kiddy defenses of basically saying "Nuh Uhh, your just a poopy head". I am not saying this to be mean, but telling you why people are reacting to your responses the way they are. Rather then take it constructively, you call people idiots and bad magic players.
So I will turn this around on you, why don't you just test what people are suggesting, take a bit of your own medicine, and see where they are coming from. If 20 people are telling you one thing, it is probably for a reason. You can still run a deck you want to run, you can still be reactive to what your opponent is doing, it can still have a little bit of permission, but to go all out on a strategy that has not worked in years, and is especially tough to run right now seems like your are just being stubborn.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Metagames can be diverse. Like Im saying for what seems like the 100th time, people are not running Cavern as much as before. All the fast aggro decks and all the 3 and 4 color midrange decks are staying far away from that card.
The only person thats playing kiddy games here is you. If you dont have anything to suggest about the 75 cards in my deck, then just go away. Simple as that.
I have taken many comments in this thread constructively. Others, I have chosen to brush off because they simply are not good ideas.
Even though I was one of the ones not agreeing with this deck earlier, if he sees that his Meta has forgot Permission and that people won't be expecting it at this point, more power to Mike for seeing that and wanting to try and shake things up.
Hopefully things can be more civil this time around.
5 five drops with 23 mana seems strange especially with 2 six drops even with farseeks and arbor elf. I feel like you should go more draw-go or heavier creature base to ensure consistency with Zegana
edit:
I'm not really speaking in terms of your list as far as particular cards go just consistency based on your mana and what not. Take that with a grain of salt though because I haven't sleeved up your list so it might be different in practice than is my head