This makes ramp decks more resilient, and offers instant speed wrath effect which wasn't available before. Consider that the arch type had to use cards like:
Seismic Rupture and Winds of Qal Sisma to survive early on. This is MB material, that final clause is...borderline busted in the Eldrazi ramp deck. It clears the path for all 7cmc eldrazi. Unlike New Chandra, this one does take out Abzan's entire team.
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
While I question its rarity (mythic rare should mean epic but not necessarily standard staple. This has changed lately) this card is bonkers in Eldrazi Ramp. I read that some players prefer Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to Kozilek, the Great Distortion for the deck since it stabilizes the board. With this card this might change. Draw up to 7 plus clear the board when you cast Kozilek is backbreaking.
The thing with Ulamog is that much of the time you want to nuke specific lands to cut out their lines of play. I would vastly prefer to nuke an Abzan Player's two sources of Black/White/Green to cut them out of Abzan Charm, subsequent Rhinos, etc. The same is true for most other decks; disrupting their ability to continue playing is more vital to ramp than nuking their threats with Ulamog. This gives you the best of both worlds with Ulamog.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kozi, but he wont be replacing Ulamog because of this. I would vastly prefer the "Nuke two lands, wipe your board" over Kozilek's draw some cards and board wipe.
True. It depends on the matchup. But draw 7 plus counter everything your opponent plays for free (ok it's not legacy so you probably won't have the correct cmc card all the time to counter everything) is really powerful. There will probably be some sort of split between the two (either md or md/sb). Anyways the card is really great for this deck no matter what the titan of choice will be.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Kozi has a place. Ulamog will remain the major win-con for a few reasons. First, he impacts the board on cast and immediately, and can cripple mana bases in a format that is filled with greedy mana bases. Second, he's a bit more resilient naturally due to built-in indestructible. Third, he's generally a hard 2-turn clock no matter what the board looks like, and worst case scenario is that he's a 3-turn clock.
Kozi's main draw is a few fold; First he draws card to get you more gas. Often I've found ramp to run light, and without Sanctum you are often hoping your 1 big spell will be good enough. Kozi gets you to a point where you have a very good chance of a follow up Ugin/Ulamog/etc. Which is super nice. Second, his counter ability is a bit better not really at protecting himself (The big thing that you need to worry about is going to be usually Abzan Charm), but can also turn things like Nissa's Pilgrimage/Map the Wastes//Explosive Vegetation/Hedron Archive into protection from top-deck Rhinos/Mantis Riders/etc which can often finish you out right then and there on their own. While this is a very strong ability, I think the split will be 3-2 Ulamog/Kozilek or 4/2 if you really want to go deep on expensive dudes. I do think Kozilek will see play, but I'm not sure if 1 or 2 is the right number (And I generally don't think you'll want 4; he's not nearly as good when you cast running copies as Ulamog is).
I just realized this is a mythic rare. This will be an expensive piece for the ramp decks....great. It's going to be a standard staple, it's almost a gimmie.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I just realized this is a mythic rare. This will be an expensive piece for the ramp decks....great. It's going to be a standard staple, it's almost a gimmie.
Unfortunately yes, it will. I'm hoping it's not horridly expensive at some point, but that's a hope beyond hope I think.
I think you mean "the second mode can't be Counterspelled", which is correct. It can be countered by stuff like Stifle, but it's not a spell being cast so isn't hit by the usual counters.
The most likely way that the second ability would be "countered" in standard is via pinpoint grave hate. If it is exiled from the graveyard by something other than its own ability or somehow leaves the graveyard in another manner (like getting shuffled back) before it can exile itself, the trigger won't do anything.
While I question its rarity (mythic rare should mean epic but not necessarily standard staple. This has changed lately) this card is bonkers in Eldrazi Ramp. I read that some players prefer Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to Kozilek, the Great Distortion for the deck since it stabilizes the board. With this card this might change. Draw up to 7 plus clear the board when you cast Kozilek is backbreaking.
The thing with Ulamog is that much of the time you want to nuke specific lands to cut out their lines of play. I would vastly prefer to nuke an Abzan Player's two sources of Black/White/Green to cut them out of Abzan Charm, subsequent Rhinos, etc. The same is true for most other decks; disrupting their ability to continue playing is more vital to ramp than nuking their threats with Ulamog. This gives you the best of both worlds with Ulamog.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kozi, but he wont be replacing Ulamog because of this. I would vastly prefer the "Nuke two lands, wipe your board" over Kozilek's draw some cards and board wipe.
This is exactly what I do!! Nuking the lands usually is far better than creatures.
Kozilek's Return is the card I've been waiting for! Currently running UG Eldrazi this will put me back in red. My biggest problem is Abzan hitting their curve leaves you dead even if you drop Ulamog on time! Radiant Flames wasn't cutting it for me most of the time because of Anafenza and Gideon. The board state is too one sided. With Kozi you keep them down, then punch them out with the 7+ creature/exile. Gideon then has to faceplant into Ulamog. This might even remove a copy or 2 of Ugin in favor of Kozilek and World Breaker for those stinky Roc decks! I'm excited!
Koz's Return can make Koz himself more relevant than Ulamog. Why?
*You can exile multiple copies of Return off one trigger. Think about that one and let it sink in. 10 Damage to all creatures. Ignoring Hexproof; sorry Dragon Control. Beats Ulamog in the mirror. Wipes. The. Board. And you get to reload. All for the cost of playing two early game board wipes you probably wanted to play anyway and/or getting them in the yard.
Could be wrong, I've got no testing to back it up. But, sounds like a relatively easy win-con to me.
This is mythic because of Limited play not the card itself.
It looks good for standard. Radiant Flames might be better at this point in time. I don't think K'sR is going to demand a high price. 2 damage for 3 mana is overcosted. Only standard playable. Only good in 1 deck if that deck even exist.
Koz's Return can make Koz himself more relevant than Ulamog. Why?
*You can exile multiple copies of Return off one trigger. Think about that one and let it sink in. 10 Damage to all creatures. Ignoring Hexproof; sorry Dragon Control. Beats Ulamog in the mirror. Wipes. The. Board. And you get to reload. All for the cost of playing two early game board wipes you probably wanted to play anyway and/or getting them in the yard.
Could be wrong, I've got no testing to back it up. But, sounds like a relatively easy win-con to me.
Nuking lands is pretty vital to ramp currently, probably moreso than threats. While this certainly makes Kozilek more appealing to play, I would rather have Ulamog's ability to lock them out of the game completely over Kozilek most of the time.
Koz's Return can make Koz himself more relevant than Ulamog. Why?
*You can exile multiple copies of Return off one trigger. Think about that one and let it sink in. 10 Damage to all creatures. Ignoring Hexproof; sorry Dragon Control. Beats Ulamog in the mirror. Wipes. The. Board. And you get to reload. All for the cost of playing two early game board wipes you probably wanted to play anyway and/or getting them in the yard.
Could be wrong, I've got no testing to back it up. But, sounds like a relatively easy win-con to me.
How exactly does this beat Ulamog? Ulamog has indestructible.
Ulamog could just exile Kozilek with the cast trigger along with something else. Doesn't matter if you counter it. Which to do, the only thing countering it with is pitching another Ulamog or Kozilek. Seems to me like for the most part, Ulamog is more of a counter to Kozilek except in the sense of Kozilek drawing you into one or more other eldrazis. Duh, Kozilek's return wipes the board. That's what it is supposed to do. Of course it is good. However, this doesn't make Kozilek specifically more valuable than Ulamog in the slightest. The correct answer is probably "Why not both?" I mean, both are very good and choices are nice. Ulamog being indestructible and winning off a couple swings regardless of board state aren't exactly irrelevant things even if being indestructible isn't quite as awesome in this standard as usual.
Ulamog could just exile Kozilek with the cast trigger along with something else. Doesn't matter if you counter it. Which to do, the only thing countering it with is pitching another Ulamog or Kozilek. Seems to me like for the most part, Ulamog is more of a counter to Kozilek except in the sense of Kozilek drawing you into one or more other eldrazis. Duh, Kozilek's return wipes the board. That's what it is supposed to do. Of course it is good. However, this doesn't make Kozilek specifically more valuable than Ulamog in the slightest. The correct answer is probably "Why not both?" I mean, both are very good and choices are nice. Ulamog being indestructible and winning off a couple swings regardless of board state aren't exactly irrelevant things even if being indestructible isn't quite as awesome in this standard as usual.
Let me ask a question towards the Ulamog vs. Kozilek problem; How many of each one do you want to draw in a given game if running ramp?
Barring drawing too many in the early game, which is a problem with both, let's analyze the situations that would occur with each if drawn in multiples when the engines are running:
1. You never really care if you draw a second, third, or fourth Ulamog. A common line of play is to attack with your first Ulamog, cast the second and nuke some permanents which. If you draw all of your Ulamogs, chances are you will have LD'd them out of the game entirely leaving them with no possible gameplan. Subsequent copies of Ulamog aren't just as good as the first, often times they are better than the first by virtue of the fact that you cut opponents out of the game entirely with those subsequent copies. You will never be dissappointed in drawing extra Ulamogs at all.
2. Kozilek is freaking awesome at the first copy. You should typically draw 5-6 cards (And occasionally 7, while I can't envision drawing less than 4 with current lists). The second copy fall off hard from there, which draws you 1-2 cards (And each subsequent copy is the same). While having more Kozileks increases your redundancy of getting him, you also aren't particularly incentivised to cast him. If they don't remove the first (And you can't attack for some reason or another), he either rots in your hand as a multiple, or draws you 1-2 cards and replaces itself. Which, while not bad, is hardly great. His main upside is that he can deal with threats being cast, one of the big ones being a Rhino off the top (And the deck has an abundance of late-game dead draws, particularly at 3-4 mana). Subsequent Kozileks are much, much worse than the first almost always as far as being able to just cast them goes.
Basically, subsequent Ulamogs aren't simply as good as the first, they are better than the first (As each subsequent one strains the land base and resources of your opponent further and further). Ulamog gets exponentially better with each casting due to what it does. Kozilek is the opposite; the first is really good, and each subsequent one falls off heavily from there. The second, third, and fourth are never going to be as strong as the first.
So, with all that said, which do you run?
Well, as you said, "Why not both?" Certainly, Ulamog is where you want to be as far as winning the game is concerned, however Kozilek gives you some lines of play and an extra thing to draw to that will let you get your Ulamogs/Ugins/etc. While I don't think it can ever be correct to go a full four of each (As 8 10-drops seems incredibly ambitious, even for dedicated ramp), but I'm personally going for a 4-1 Ulamog-Kozilek split, and moving from there. It's possible 4-2 or 3-2 is more "correct", but I'll wait to see on that one. You always want more Ulamogs, but not often will you care to draw more Kozileks.
Something to consider is with infinite obliteration in sideboards vs eldrazi ramp, it seems prudent to have a mix in the sideboard of Kozi, Deso Twin, and for my part World Breaker. If you run the mix after board vs black you should be prepped. I might even pull out all my ulamogs if I KNOW they're going to board that in.
Something to consider is with infinite obliteration in sideboards vs eldrazi ramp, it seems prudent to have a mix in the sideboard of Kozi, Deso Twin, and for my part World Breaker. If you run the mix after board vs black you should be prepped. I might even pull out all my ulamogs if I KNOW they're going to board that in.
The thing is, I'd run 3-4 mainboard World Breakers mainboard. It's a serious body with two very real sets of abilities, and procs Sanctum and Kozileks return, and comes down very early in the game (For ramp). My top-end post rotation is going to be somewhere in the 4 World Breakers- 4 Ulamogs- 2 Ugin (Becomes much less vital with Kozilek's Return) - 1 Kozilek. This should really dampen the impact severely of Infinite Obliteration, as well as force them to use it by turn 5 where I can start nuking their black sources with World Breaker. Typically, most seasoned players will wait until the last possible turn to cast Obliteration, as it is generally better to build your boardstate first. If you can start nuking their black mana as early as turn 5, you are going to force them to use it or lose as it becomes vastly more difficult to cast a spell with BB in its cost from that point on. Even still, Obliteration won't answer your World Breaker on board, and they will often be left with the decision between taking care of your World Breaker, Casting Obliteration, or building their board. If they cast Obliteration at this point naming Ulamog, you will have plenty of other options to move forward with including more Breakers, Ugin, or Kozilek. If they remove the Worldbreaker, this gives you a turn.
Honestly, World Breaker is probably the best thing coming for the deck, with a very near second being Kozi's Return. A slightly cheaper Eldrazi to ramp to that has a potent on-cast effect, with the ability to rebuy itself is the real deal.
The more I think about this card the more I think this'll see play even outside Big Eldrazi decks. It's a 3 mana Pyroclasm at instant speed. In our standard I think that's pretty good. It'll probably hit a lot of Jaces, little red guys, even some den protectors and early Gideon Knights. I see this card as a standard all star. Maybe mostly side board but I wouldb be surprised to see this a staple of you're in red (outside of early aggro)
Only down side I see is if the opponent can do something to exile/kill the fatty you just dropped then you're stalling for another turn or 2 since this would wipe all of your dorks
I honestly think that with things like world breaker, the deck isn't as ridiculous mana necessary which means dorks will still be good but a bit less of a necessity in such large numbers. Being able to operate at 6-7 as opposed to needing to hit 10 is very significant. So that may not even really be an issue. In any case, even if it does happen, if you're using this, you're probably setting them back a whole lot further than yourself.
Anyone with a brain can see why this card will be played in standard and modern. But I'm super pissed that it's pre-ordering for 20$. This is not a 20$ card ffs. Foils should be 20$ imo, but nonfoil should be around 5-10$ max. This is why making it a mythic sucks so bad.
This shouldn't be a surprise...at mythic and it's relevancy in a standard deck that needs is enough for this card to pre-order at $20. Is it worth $20...NO, but for those wanting to update their standard ramp decks and take it to PPTQ's or even GP's it's going to an expensive piece to acquire. I'm not even sure this is enough to make the Ramp deck Tier 1, it needs more.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
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Standard implications?
Seismic Rupture and Winds of Qal Sisma to survive early on. This is MB material, that final clause is...borderline busted in the Eldrazi ramp deck. It clears the path for all 7cmc eldrazi. Unlike New Chandra, this one does take out Abzan's entire team.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
The thing with Ulamog is that much of the time you want to nuke specific lands to cut out their lines of play. I would vastly prefer to nuke an Abzan Player's two sources of Black/White/Green to cut them out of Abzan Charm, subsequent Rhinos, etc. The same is true for most other decks; disrupting their ability to continue playing is more vital to ramp than nuking their threats with Ulamog. This gives you the best of both worlds with Ulamog.
Don't get me wrong, I like Kozi, but he wont be replacing Ulamog because of this. I would vastly prefer the "Nuke two lands, wipe your board" over Kozilek's draw some cards and board wipe.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Kozi has a place. Ulamog will remain the major win-con for a few reasons. First, he impacts the board on cast and immediately, and can cripple mana bases in a format that is filled with greedy mana bases. Second, he's a bit more resilient naturally due to built-in indestructible. Third, he's generally a hard 2-turn clock no matter what the board looks like, and worst case scenario is that he's a 3-turn clock.
Kozi's main draw is a few fold; First he draws card to get you more gas. Often I've found ramp to run light, and without Sanctum you are often hoping your 1 big spell will be good enough. Kozi gets you to a point where you have a very good chance of a follow up Ugin/Ulamog/etc. Which is super nice. Second, his counter ability is a bit better not really at protecting himself (The big thing that you need to worry about is going to be usually Abzan Charm), but can also turn things like Nissa's Pilgrimage/Map the Wastes//Explosive Vegetation/Hedron Archive into protection from top-deck Rhinos/Mantis Riders/etc which can often finish you out right then and there on their own. While this is a very strong ability, I think the split will be 3-2 Ulamog/Kozilek or 4/2 if you really want to go deep on expensive dudes. I do think Kozilek will see play, but I'm not sure if 1 or 2 is the right number (And I generally don't think you'll want 4; he's not nearly as good when you cast running copies as Ulamog is).
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Unfortunately yes, it will. I'm hoping it's not horridly expensive at some point, but that's a hope beyond hope I think.
Yep. It's a triggered ability, so unless something like Stifle shows up in standard, which is horridly unlikely, it can't be countered.
This is exactly what I do!! Nuking the lands usually is far better than creatures.
Kozilek's Return is the card I've been waiting for! Currently running UG Eldrazi this will put me back in red. My biggest problem is Abzan hitting their curve leaves you dead even if you drop Ulamog on time! Radiant Flames wasn't cutting it for me most of the time because of Anafenza and Gideon. The board state is too one sided. With Kozi you keep them down, then punch them out with the 7+ creature/exile. Gideon then has to faceplant into Ulamog. This might even remove a copy or 2 of Ugin in favor of Kozilek and World Breaker for those stinky Roc decks! I'm excited!
*You can exile multiple copies of Return off one trigger. Think about that one and let it sink in. 10 Damage to all creatures. Ignoring Hexproof; sorry Dragon Control. Beats Ulamog in the mirror. Wipes. The. Board. And you get to reload. All for the cost of playing two early game board wipes you probably wanted to play anyway and/or getting them in the yard.
Could be wrong, I've got no testing to back it up. But, sounds like a relatively easy win-con to me.
It looks good for standard. Radiant Flames might be better at this point in time. I don't think K'sR is going to demand a high price. 2 damage for 3 mana is overcosted. Only standard playable. Only good in 1 deck if that deck even exist.
Nuking lands is pretty vital to ramp currently, probably moreso than threats. While this certainly makes Kozilek more appealing to play, I would rather have Ulamog's ability to lock them out of the game completely over Kozilek most of the time.
How exactly does this beat Ulamog? Ulamog has indestructible.
Let me ask a question towards the Ulamog vs. Kozilek problem; How many of each one do you want to draw in a given game if running ramp?
Barring drawing too many in the early game, which is a problem with both, let's analyze the situations that would occur with each if drawn in multiples when the engines are running:
1. You never really care if you draw a second, third, or fourth Ulamog. A common line of play is to attack with your first Ulamog, cast the second and nuke some permanents which. If you draw all of your Ulamogs, chances are you will have LD'd them out of the game entirely leaving them with no possible gameplan. Subsequent copies of Ulamog aren't just as good as the first, often times they are better than the first by virtue of the fact that you cut opponents out of the game entirely with those subsequent copies. You will never be dissappointed in drawing extra Ulamogs at all.
2. Kozilek is freaking awesome at the first copy. You should typically draw 5-6 cards (And occasionally 7, while I can't envision drawing less than 4 with current lists). The second copy fall off hard from there, which draws you 1-2 cards (And each subsequent copy is the same). While having more Kozileks increases your redundancy of getting him, you also aren't particularly incentivised to cast him. If they don't remove the first (And you can't attack for some reason or another), he either rots in your hand as a multiple, or draws you 1-2 cards and replaces itself. Which, while not bad, is hardly great. His main upside is that he can deal with threats being cast, one of the big ones being a Rhino off the top (And the deck has an abundance of late-game dead draws, particularly at 3-4 mana). Subsequent Kozileks are much, much worse than the first almost always as far as being able to just cast them goes.
Basically, subsequent Ulamogs aren't simply as good as the first, they are better than the first (As each subsequent one strains the land base and resources of your opponent further and further). Ulamog gets exponentially better with each casting due to what it does. Kozilek is the opposite; the first is really good, and each subsequent one falls off heavily from there. The second, third, and fourth are never going to be as strong as the first.
So, with all that said, which do you run?
Well, as you said, "Why not both?" Certainly, Ulamog is where you want to be as far as winning the game is concerned, however Kozilek gives you some lines of play and an extra thing to draw to that will let you get your Ulamogs/Ugins/etc. While I don't think it can ever be correct to go a full four of each (As 8 10-drops seems incredibly ambitious, even for dedicated ramp), but I'm personally going for a 4-1 Ulamog-Kozilek split, and moving from there. It's possible 4-2 or 3-2 is more "correct", but I'll wait to see on that one. You always want more Ulamogs, but not often will you care to draw more Kozileks.
The thing is, I'd run 3-4 mainboard World Breakers mainboard. It's a serious body with two very real sets of abilities, and procs Sanctum and Kozileks return, and comes down very early in the game (For ramp). My top-end post rotation is going to be somewhere in the 4 World Breakers- 4 Ulamogs- 2 Ugin (Becomes much less vital with Kozilek's Return) - 1 Kozilek. This should really dampen the impact severely of Infinite Obliteration, as well as force them to use it by turn 5 where I can start nuking their black sources with World Breaker. Typically, most seasoned players will wait until the last possible turn to cast Obliteration, as it is generally better to build your boardstate first. If you can start nuking their black mana as early as turn 5, you are going to force them to use it or lose as it becomes vastly more difficult to cast a spell with BB in its cost from that point on. Even still, Obliteration won't answer your World Breaker on board, and they will often be left with the decision between taking care of your World Breaker, Casting Obliteration, or building their board. If they cast Obliteration at this point naming Ulamog, you will have plenty of other options to move forward with including more Breakers, Ugin, or Kozilek. If they remove the Worldbreaker, this gives you a turn.
Honestly, World Breaker is probably the best thing coming for the deck, with a very near second being Kozi's Return. A slightly cheaper Eldrazi to ramp to that has a potent on-cast effect, with the ability to rebuy itself is the real deal.
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn