I went 2-1-1 tonight at FNM with a list similar to my jeskai black list I posted on the previous page. After the fact I feel like 4-0 was easily possible, however I need more practice playing my deck against the popular deck archetypes. Every game got close and went into the 3rd match.
The first game he was able to outvalue me with creatures like Eldrazi Skyspawner and then pumping them with Ruination guide while I didn't see one Knight of the white orchid. Just as I cast Starfield and would have stabilized my next upkeep, he pumped all of his creatures with Swarm surge and had me.
The second game I sided in all of my Radiant Flames and the deck worked perfectly, I kept his board clear and swung with all of my enchantments after starfield turned them to creatures.
The third game was a lot like the second. Radiant flames is great against aggro.
Match 2: 1-2 Vs Jeskai Black
I was a bit apprehensive going into this match, my opponent was one of the night's judges and I knew him to be a player that has played and placed in the top 100 in past Grand Prix tournaments.
I won the first game, keeping his mantis riders and monestery mentors away with silkwrap and won by swinging in with my enchantments.
The second and third games were really close, but I frustratingly couldn't find any answer to Ojutai in both the 2nd and third games. I drew all of my silkwraps both games and had nothing to target them with.
He complimented me on the deck after the match saying he never expected to see anything like it after theros rotated.
Match 3: 2-1 Vs. Abzan Harden the scales.
His deck was built around value creatures such as siege rhino and hangarback walker. I won the first game because he couldn't find any white mana sources.
He won the second game because I got stuck on four lands (even with a Monastery Siege out on my third turn) and my removal couldn't keep up.
The third game was closer, but he got a bit flooded while I kept drawing gas and thinning my deck thanks to three knight of the white orchids in a row. I got Narset Transcendent out on my fourth turn. I suspected he had a languish in his hand and I stalled playing a starfield until I could leave two mana untapped for negate. Instead of drawing lands I eventually got Narset's loyalty to nine and then got her emblem which allowed me to tap out and cast Starfield happy in the knowlege that he couldn't boardwipe and get his creatures back.
In the second match radiant flames was an all-star, but I was tired and misplayed which made the game go long even though I won it in the end.
I would have won the third game, as I had stablized and was beginning to bury my opponent in card advantage, but ran out of time and didn't have enough echantments on board to activate starfield and swing for the win.
Overall I'm happy with the way things went tonight with my list, I need to make a few changes and maybe narrow the deck's focus a bit more as it felt like my build was stuck in between control and midrange and I feel like I can gain a lot by choosing one of those strategies and sticking to it.
More than anything I've been wondering if Esper may be the way to go. The main reason I chose Jeskai was for Radiant Flames in the sideboard, and while it proved to be awesome in every match I sided it in, I usually found myself holding off from casting it on turn three, opting to let my opponent commit more creatures to his side of the board before casting radiant flames, because of this I feel Languish may be just as effective and it hits all the most commonly played dragons besides atarka and silgumar the drifting death.
I know some think Dig Through Time is a good card to run in this deck. What about Treasure Cruise? Would playing this card be any worse than Dig Through Time?
DTT is better for controlish builds because it is instant speed and helps find answers. So if you're running a number of counterspells as well as 4 Stasis Snares then dig is probably better since it allows you to leave your mana open until the end of your opponent's turn. Treasure Cruise is better for aggro because they fill up their graveyard fast and it can be cast for one less mana than DTT. I chose to use Dig because this deck doesn't fill its graveyard as fast as aggro does, but it can get really graveyard heavy in the late game thanks to Monastery Siege.
Hi All; been watching this deck on the forums for a while and finally decided to sleeve up a version for FNM this past weekend. Went 4-1 with this list:
My local shop is pretty heavy in Abzan and R/G midrange decks, so I tuned the deck to be a little more Control oriented, cutting back on some of the enchantments for more counterspells and draw (Though I only ended up playing 1 Abzan match!).
I played:
Round 1: U/G Ramp (Early counterspells ramping to Eldrazi; Pilot was quite young and not a super experienced player, so I don't know how this match might have gone otherwise) - Won 2-0
Round 2: Mardu Dragons (Mainly a R/B dragon deck (Kolagan and Thunderbreak) with some white for Mardu charm and Silkwrap) - Won 2-0
Round 3: Abzan Midrange (Had a 1-of Tragic Arrogance in the Sideboard that destroyed me game two; and I was able to predict and counter game 3, though it was still quite close. Definitely one of the hardest cards for this deck to beat) - Won 2-1
Round 4: Jeskai Black (First game I got triple Mantis Rider-ed (was able to take out 1, but was overall waaaay to quick); game two I ended up Mana screwed )
Round 5: R/G Ramp/Midrange (These kind of decks I think are almost an auto win for us, as the enchantment removal is so solid, and they have to tap out to play their big threats, leaving them very susceptible to counter magic) - Won 2-0
I love the deck, and the consistency is great; I do feel a little nervous against aggro, still, and even with the Clerics and Ojutai's Commands, but there is probably not much to do about it.
I included the 1 copy of Spawning Bed on recommendation from my friend. It actually is incredible: it can create instant speed blockers, if they threaten lethal, Can provide 3 for a Quarantine Field with some extra reach, and even give a couple of attackers if we have the game on lockdown and need to start a clock. I highly recommend a 1-of.
Overall I think this turned out well, but I will be trying a couple more enchantments next week, probably adding in another copy of Monastery Siege, as I was always happy to have one of these on board, and maybe a Citadel Siege to see how it fares. I also found Narset to be just a "sometimes" card advantage engine, and not really all that spectacular. I included her thinking I could utilize her second ability a bit more with some more draw spells, but in general I found Gideon to be just more of a threat at 4 mana. I think I will try a second copy of him if I can get one, and otherwise maybe try an Ugin?
Also: Quarantine Field is AMAZING.
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Modern - UBWG4C Gifts ::GW Hatebears Standard - UW Enchantment Control
DTT is better for controlish builds because it is instant speed and helps find answers. So if you're running a number of counterspells as well as 4 Stasis Snares then dig is probably better since it allows you to leave your mana open until the end of your opponent's turn. Treasure Cruise is better for aggro because they fill up their graveyard fast and it can be cast for one less mana than DTT. I chose to use Dig because this deck doesn't fill its graveyard as fast as aggro does, but it can get really graveyard heavy in the late game thanks to Monastery Siege.
Would you think playing Dig Through Time would better than running planeswalkers like Narset Transcendent? I'm making this deck without the Flooded Strands and not sure as to which draw effects I should add to the deck.
Yes, I think DTT is better than Narset in this deck, but the value of all the delve spells goes down the less fetchlands you run. They go a long way in feeding the graveyard and reducing the costs you can delve. Painful Truths (if you're esper) and Ugin's Insight are probably better in a deck that has no fetchlands, since you will always be able to cast them for three mana or for five mana respectively. If you have no semi-reliable way of filling your graveyard like the fetchlands then I wouldn't run any delve spells because our removal on the whole doesn't go to the graveyard and doesn't feed delve.
Narset's value also goes down a little because the fetchlands do thin the lands in your library making her slightly more likely to draw a card, and if you +1 her and see a land you can always crack a fetchland to shuffle your library to hopefully draw something on your next turn other than that land.
You have no way of reliably getting enchantments into your graveyard from your library so you can take advantage of starfield's first ability. If I were you I'd strongly suggest you to put in more card draw. Sage's Reverie is the only card draw in white right now besides cantrips. So maybe build the deck with 4 Pacifism and some number of Suppression Bonds and Lightform to increase your aura count enough for sage's reverie to matter. Auras are also more likely to find there way to your graveyard where starfield can bring them back.
I'd also put in one or two Canopy Vistas and one or two Prairie Streams so that you can have something to fetch if Oblivion Sower lets you play your Opponents' exiled fetchlands. If you do put them in then the only fetchland that will be "dead" to you is Bloodstained Mire.
Murder Investigation could also be worth trying if you decide to increase the amount of Wrath effects you mainboard. You can play it on an opponent's fatty before casting a wrath and then get a bunch of 1/1s out of it (It would be a hilarious thing to play on a Pacifismed Managorger Hydra the turn before you cast a board wipe.)
You have no way of reliably getting enchantments into your graveyard from your library so you can take advantage of starfield's first ability. If I were you I'd strongly suggest you to put in more card draw. Sage's Reverie is the only card draw in white right now besides cantrips. So maybe build the deck with 4 Pacifism and some number of Suppression Bonds and Lightform to increase your aura count enough for sage's reverie to matter. Auras are also more likely to find there way to your graveyard where starfield can bring them back.
I'd also put in one or two Canopy Vistas and one or two Prairie Streams so that you can have something to fetch if Oblivion Sower lets you play your Opponents' exiled fetchlands. If you do put them in then the only fetchland that will be "dead" to you is Bloodstained Mire.
Murder Investigation could also be worth trying if you decide to increase the amount of Wrath effects you mainboard. You can play it on an opponent's fatty before casting a wrath and then get a bunch of 1/1s out of it (It would be a hilarious thing to play on a Pacifismed Managorger Hydra the turn before you cast a board wipe.)
Sadly, murder investigation can only be put on a creature YOU control, not the opponents. I've been trying to break that card for a while but I don't think this is the deck to do it unfortunately. He could always put it on a sower or a pumped up blessed spirits, but eh.
Hipster mike as far as your deck goes, mono white COULD work, but you need to figure out a way to reliably get enchantments in the graveyard for starfield, since you now don't have access to monastery siege. In white colors, the best way to really do that is gonna be mastery of the unseen. I'd also recomment hedron archive to go along with it to to help with mastery's mana costs. Archive also has some synergy with emeria shepard as well; it helps you ramp up to it, and it's yet another thing the shepard can reanimate from the yard, like right after you sacrificed it to itself for card draw for example.
You could also convert it to a sage's reverie deck if you wanted like darklingscribe said. The reverie deck is a lot of fun to play from experience but you also need to be careful. silkwrap and stasis snare are 9/10 just better removal compared to pacifism and singing bell strike. I also have found sigil of the empty throne a tad bit better than starfield of nyx surprisingly in that deck mainly because of all the lowcost enchantments you run.
I have been trying out the Emeria Shepherd as a way to get back some of the dead/milled stuff, though it feels the mana cost is a bit too high for what it does. Makes me wish we had something like baneslayer back. The deck plays fairly well, and so far I have had very positive results.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU UBW Sen Triplets WBU WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW GWR Mayael the Anima RWG RWB Edgar Markov BWR WG Gaddok Teeg GW W Oketra the True W
--- My Decklist Folder
Is UW sort of the consensus as the optimal build thus far? How have people's 3c or more lists been working out?
It used to be W/G last standard (I personally see this deck as the natural successor to the constellation deck from last standard but they are of course 2 different decks) but yeah W/U is pretty much the accepted base colors. You don't HAVE to play blue, the primary color is white obviously, but you miss out on the monastery siege/starfield "combo" which wins games on its own. Plus it gives you the entire suite of counterspells at your fingertips to help protect your permanents (Ugin hurts mayne)
You're not shoehorned into only the 2 main colors though. This deck can very esily go into bant, esper, or even jeskai thanks to the manabase we have, and there's actual reasons to consider all these combinations too. That's one of the reasons why I like this deck, there's a pretty established base to it but also has tons of room for experimentation.
I have been trying out the Emeria Shepherd as a way to get back some of the dead/milled stuff, though it feels the mana cost is a bit too high for what it does. Makes me wish we had something like baneslayer back. The deck plays fairly well, and so far I have had very positive results.
I've been experimenting with the shep too but imo you really need a way to ramp into it. knight of the white orchid, pilgrim's eye, and hedron archive are the first things that come to mind. You could try building it as "the standard version of the Sun Titan Deck" from modern. I actually might try something like that out myself, sounds pretty interesting.
Is UW sort of the consensus as the optimal build thus far? How have people's 3c or more lists been working out?
It is easy to splash a third (and even fourth/fifth) color, and there are cards in other colors that would be good in this deck. But. I choose to play UW because there are simply no other cards in any other color that would work better for my strategy than a white or blue card.
My strategy is to play enchantment based removal, enchantment based finishers, and support cards that help me survive to get what I need.
Black red and green do not have enchantment based removal cards that are better than the 15 that I play, nor is there room for more.
Black red and green do not have enchantment based finishers that are better than the 8 that I play, nor is there room for more.
Black red and green do not appear to have support cards that are better at supporting my strategy than the 13 that I play. At least none that I am willing to make room for.
Black and green do have some lands that would be better for my strategy than what I play, but I am not willing to adjust my mana base just for lumbering falls, shambling vent, and blighted fen.
Also, now that the format is gaining some definition, we need to see how our decks fair against the top tiers.
Using the nomenclature of these forums, these are our targets.
Established:
Abzan Aggro/Midrange
Esper Dragons
Esper Control
Mardu Dragons/Midrange
Bring to Light
I think of these, our hardest matchups are R/x Aggro and Esper Control. Each of them are on the far ends of the Aggro-Control spectrum, and our deck appears to be the most comfortable dealing with the middle of that spectrum (I.E. anything that says midrange.) I don't have much data on Jeskai, but it appears to rely on creatures and creature removal, and has few ways to deal with enchantments. I think we may do alright against it.
I don't have much data on Jeskai, but it appears to rely on creatures and creature removal, and has few ways to deal with enchantments. I think we may do alright against it.
I was watching Caleb Durward play Jeskai last night, and he was relying on 2 Erase and 2 Ojutai's Command to recur a Felidar Cub. Basically he was using them as tempo plays to get rid of Silkwrap so that he could get back Mantis Rider. Jace was also key, of course.
i am thinking of playing this deck tomorrow night at the LGS. I haven't played standard (or competitive magic in general) for almost a half a year but this deck looks like a blast to play. I will likely be playing a list similar to tacticalcelebrant's. I do think Wu is the best combination of colors here. however, I am concerned about the aggro matchup, specifically tokens. this deck seems like it would have a hard time against early creatures going wide which we have seen in these mostly red decks that "combo" with become immense and temur battlerage. displacement wave is the one card I've found that can really hose tokens, but is it worth a slot in the sideboard? I don't know what kind of meta to expect, but i would think I'd want to patch the holes that are control, aggro, and tokens strategies. i know from modern that myth realized is pretty good against control. its an enchantment that synergizes with the rest of the deck and its hard to deal with when you choose when it becomes vulnerable and you have negate backup. has anyone tried myth? i am curious how people came to the conclusion that it doesn't have a place in these lists somewhere. i would think even a 1/1 or 2/2 myth might be a nice speed bump vs aggro since the starfield can bring it back anyway (although its really one of the last things i want to reanimate with it). the other anti control enchantment in blue is sphinx's tutelage. has anyone experimented with this card? worthless vs aggro but is pretty ridiculous vs control decks.
id appreciate any input i receive before tomorrow night.
i am thinking of playing this deck tomorrow night at the LGS. I haven't played standard (or competitive magic in general) for almost a half a year but this deck looks like a blast to play. I will likely be playing a list similar to tacticalcelebrant's. I do think Wu is the best combination of colors here. however, I am concerned about the aggro matchup, specifically tokens. this deck seems like it would have a hard time against early creatures going wide which we have seen in these mostly red decks that "combo" with become immense and temur battlerage. displacement wave is the one card I've found that can really hose tokens, but is it worth a slot in the sideboard? I don't know what kind of meta to expect, but i would think I'd want to patch the holes that are control, aggro, and tokens strategies. i know from modern that myth realized is pretty good against control. its an enchantment that synergizes with the rest of the deck and its hard to deal with when you choose when it becomes vulnerable and you have negate backup. has anyone tried myth? i am curious how people came to the conclusion that it doesn't have a place in these lists somewhere. i would think even a 1/1 or 2/2 myth might be a nice speed bump vs aggro since the starfield can bring it back anyway (although its really one of the last things i want to reanimate with it). the other anti control enchantment in blue is sphinx's tutelage. has anyone experimented with this card? worthless vs aggro but is pretty ridiculous vs control decks.
id appreciate any input i receive before tomorrow night.
Displacement wave is probably the best option we have against control strategies I agree. Depending on your meta, I'd put probably about 2 in the sideboard to deal with any decks that like to play secure the wastes as a win con. JeskI is the first that comes to mind
I don't think anyone here has been bashing myth realized, it's a great card. I regularly side it in vs control matchups all the time. It coming down t1 means the control guy has to always be aware of the potential 8/8 that could come swinging in out of nowhere. The fact that both myth realized and sigi of the empty throne trigger off our spells being cast means we get value even if everything is countered.
Slightly off topic, but I'm really starting to think negate should be mainboarded as our go to "counterspell of choice". It stops everything that could be problematic to our deck, and our deck naturally already deals with everything negate doesn't stop.
I know I haven't messed around with tutelage too much but I know a couple guys on here have as an alt win con. Have you tested it at all? Seems a tad bit unnecessary, but I could be wrong!
Good luck tomorrow, and if you can, post your results here and talk about your matchups!
If you dont mind my asking, whats your list looking like hercules? I just cant imagine finding space in the sideboard for myth realized AND displacement wave. Im ordering the rest of the cards I need tonight and wanted to lock in my list.
On another note, Ive played around with tutelage and it works great with monastery siege (even better with two of either card). I played it in place of sigil, and it did okay. I was thinking about trying it in place of starfield but never did. Which i know seems weird for a starfield deck, but the way i see it starfield makes you exceptionally vulnerable unless youre swinging for the win the turn that your enchants become creatures. All their creature removal that was dead suddenly becomes relevant the very next turn. Though a successfully ultimated Narset certainly helps with that.
If you dont mind my asking, whats your list looking like hercules? I just cant imagine finding space in the sideboard for myth realized AND displacement wave. Im ordering the rest of the cards I need tonight and wanted to lock in my list.
On another note, Ive played around with tutelage and it works great with monastery siege (even better with two of either card). I played it in place of sigil, and it did okay. I was thinking about trying it in place of starfield but never did. Which i know seems weird for a starfield deck, but the way i see it starfield makes you exceptionally vulnerable unless youre swinging for the win the turn that your enchants become creatures. All their creature removal that was dead suddenly becomes relevant the very next turn. Though a successfully ultimated Narset certainly helps with that.
This is what the list looks like right now, but it could be changing come tomorrow, especially the sidedeck.
I would be playing 2 copies of narset transcendent somewhere in the 75, if my lgs had it.
Trying to decide if I like myth realized or mastery of the unseen more. Leaning towards myth, but not sure.
Blight herders are 100% a flex spot right now, sometimes he's great, sometimes he's not. Trying to decide if processors are even worth it right now.
I'm gonna be heading to my lgs today when I get time to see if they have any citadel sieges, the card is good and I wanna see if I an fit in at least 2.
Decided to go with end hostilities instead of planar outburst, because I really don't want to have a dead sweeper against an awaken deck, and we're already pretty threat dense as it is.
Oh, and pacifism goes in as a way to deal with hexproof targets like the drifting death that give this deck problems. When you recur it back with starfield, you get to attach it to whatever since it's an aura and get around the hexproof, which is pretty nice.
Negates come in for clash of wills often enough to where I'm seriously considering just mainboarding the negates to begin with. Still not sure though.
But yeah, that's the deck, and what I'm gonna be playing tomorrow at WNM and maaayyyybe friday if I have the time. I'm sure you guys will have some pointers for me before then though lol
I really like Narset as a 2 of. Though I do feel like your list has too many 2 ofs in the sb. Id lean towards Myth Realized because its good no matter what you get/play but Mastery could be eating cards you need. Citadel Siege is great against midrange. Id also take negates over clash for the reasons you listed a few posts up. Just like tacticalcelebrant plays, I like disdainful stroke for those few decks with creatures that have hexproof. I prefer those over clash.
I don't think anyone here has been bashing myth realized, it's a great card. I regularly side it in vs control matchups all the time. It coming down t1 means the control guy has to always be aware of the potential 8/8 that could come swinging in out of nowhere. The fact that both myth realized and sigi of the empty throne trigger off our spells being cast means we get value even if everything is countered.
Yep, I can confirm that. I play it as a 4-of and getting one in there early is essential against control.
Slightly off topic, but I'm really starting to think negate should be mainboarded as our go to "counterspell of choice". It stops everything that could be problematic to our deck, and our deck naturally already deals with everything negate doesn't stop.
I'm in agreement with you there, I've slowly been removing the Clash of Wills and been adding in the Negate and haven't noticed any negative difference.
I know I haven't messed around with tutelage too much but I know a couple guys on here have as an alt win con. Have you tested it at all? Seems a tad bit unnecessary, but I could be wrong!
Speaking of which, due to me realizing that I had 6 Deltas and only 2 Strands, I'm going to have to force an Esper deck for Game Day instead of the Bant deck I originally had planned to go with.
However, I think that going Esper gives us a ton of spells that counteract our weaknesses.
So far in games I've played, I've seen that my particular deck's weaknesses were:
-Too many 1 for 1's, very little card advantage until I hit the 5 mana slot
-No defense against incremental life loss (i.e. from Siege Rhino, flame slash, etc)
For green, there's always Feed the Clan but I don't think it's enough. In black though we get access to Shambling Vent and Languish, both of which are ideal for my weaknesses.
Demonic Pact is sweet too, that right there is a huge advantage engine as long as we can close out the game.
For this, I'm thinking something along the following:
Basically, Languish takes place of End Hostilities and Demonic Pact takes place of From Beyond , which I've felt is too slow anyway. Dropped a single Myth Realized for two Treasure Cruise. And Shambling Vent is there to help with lifegain. Hopefully that should be enough, we will see!
I don't think anyone here has been bashing myth realized, it's a great card. I regularly side it in vs control matchups all the time. It coming down t1 means the control guy has to always be aware of the potential 8/8 that could come swinging in out of nowhere. The fact that both myth realized and sigi of the empty throne trigger off our spells being cast means we get value even if everything is countered.
Yep, I can confirm that. I play it as a 4-of and getting one in there early is essential against control.
Slightly off topic, but I'm really starting to think negate should be mainboarded as our go to "counterspell of choice". It stops everything that could be problematic to our deck, and our deck naturally already deals with everything negate doesn't stop.
I'm in agreement with you there, I've slowly been removing the Clash of Wills and been adding in the Negate and haven't noticed any negative difference.
I know I haven't messed around with tutelage too much but I know a couple guys on here have as an alt win con. Have you tested it at all? Seems a tad bit unnecessary, but I could be wrong!
Speaking of which, due to me realizing that I had 6 Deltas and only 2 Strands, I'm going to have to force an Esper deck for Game Day instead of the Bant deck I originally had planned to go with.
However, I think that going Esper gives us a ton of spells that counteract our weaknesses.
So far in games I've played, I've seen that my particular deck's weaknesses were:
-Too many 1 for 1's, very little card advantage until I hit the 5 mana slot
-No defense against incremental life loss (i.e. from Siege Rhino, flame slash, etc)
For green, there's always Feed the Clan but I don't think it's enough. In black though we get access to Shambling Vent and Languish, both of which are ideal for my weaknesses.
Demonic Pact is sweet too, that right there is a huge advantage engine as long as we can close out the game.
For this, I'm thinking something along the following:
Basically, Languish takes place of End Hostilities and Demonic Pact takes place of From Beyond , which I've felt is too slow anyway. Dropped a single Myth Realized for two Treasure Cruise. And Shambling Vent is there to help with lifegain. Hopefully that should be enough, we will see!
Esper has some sweet toys to it but why only 2 starfield? Is it cuz you're also running demonic pact? It seems like you'd want to see starfield asap so you have a reliable way of blowing pact up before it's too late.
To be fair this deck doesn't really start playing until t5 onward but I know what you mean, a way to protect yourself early game is important. Usually the exile enchantments are enough for me but I can see why it might be difficult. Languish could be good but the fact you can't cast it till t4 kinda makes me nervous against aggro. Displacement wave is just better against token strategies and serviceable against other wide decks till you can stabilize and start going off. If you were playing jeskai then radiant flames would be the best out of all of them of course but idk
There's always ojutais command if you're worried about lifegain but idk. Shambling vent I agree is just amazing and reason enough to go esper.
I've thought about including wasteland strangler if I ever made an esper list in paper but idk, sometimes he's good sometimes he's just eh, don't know if he's worth it.
Man do I wish blink effects were in standard right now...
I agree that the deck needs lifegain to make it into the late game, especially if that lifegain comes from a flexible source that has multiple uses. As of right now Shambling Vent seems to be the best main deck option.
I did try out Seeker of the Way with the idea that it can gain me 3 life just about every turn in this deck, but it turned on too much of my opponent's removal to be useful.
I tried Jeskai Charm, thinking that it can double as removal (especially if it is used on an opponent's creature in response to them cracking a fetchland) and it could allow me to freely attack with all of my enchantments a little earlier because I'd gain a life buffer, but this deck really wants to be able to attack the turn Starfield hits the field and I never had the mana to cast the charm the same turn.
Lightform seemed the most useful in my tests outside of the vent. It helped shore up my defenses by blocking fliers (and usally died doing so), but more importantly kept Ojutai and other dragons from connecting if I had no immediate answer and acted as a one creature fog for the round. The nice thing about lightform is that opposing exile effects can't remove the enchantment (unless they target the aura rather than the creature and doing so still leaves you with a 2/2) and it goes to the yard where starfield can bring it back. It also gives the deck a creature starfield can bring back from the yard which is great if I need a blocker and won't be able to get to five enchantments to turn them into creatures.
I also tried Helm of the gods to increase shambling vent's power, but I found that it usually resulted in my opponent targeting the vent with a removal spell in response to the equip ablilty entering the stack. I feel like making the vent hit for more damage made it more of a relevant threat and more likely to die to removal.
The deck is a bit more skewed towards a token theme and can usually just win fromm overrunning an opponent with a bunch of tokens and a gideon emblem/Retreat to Emeria pump.
Blight Herder is fetchable with from beyond and will process the exiled creatures. and Secure the Wastes is a surprise win con that can close out a lot of games out of nowhere.
4 Knight of the White Orchid
Enchantments (21):
4 Silkwrap
4 Monastery Siege
4 Stasis Snare
3 Quarantine Field
3 Starfield of Nyx
3 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Instants (9):
3 Negate
2 Jeskai Charm
2 End Hositilities
2 Dig Through Time
2 Narset Transcendent
Lands (24):
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
1 Cinder Glade
1 Smoldering Marsh
2 Prairie Stream
1 Sunken Hollow
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Shambling Vent
2 Island
3 Plains
2 Helm of the Gods
1 Negate
1 Dig Through Time
3 Radiant Flames
3 Seeker of the Way
2 Lightform
1 Quarantine Field
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Match 1: 2-1 Vs. Weenie Devoid
The first game he was able to outvalue me with creatures like Eldrazi Skyspawner and then pumping them with Ruination guide while I didn't see one Knight of the white orchid. Just as I cast Starfield and would have stabilized my next upkeep, he pumped all of his creatures with Swarm surge and had me.
The second game I sided in all of my Radiant Flames and the deck worked perfectly, I kept his board clear and swung with all of my enchantments after starfield turned them to creatures.
The third game was a lot like the second. Radiant flames is great against aggro.
Match 2: 1-2 Vs Jeskai Black
I was a bit apprehensive going into this match, my opponent was one of the night's judges and I knew him to be a player that has played and placed in the top 100 in past Grand Prix tournaments.
I won the first game, keeping his mantis riders and monestery mentors away with silkwrap and won by swinging in with my enchantments.
The second and third games were really close, but I frustratingly couldn't find any answer to Ojutai in both the 2nd and third games. I drew all of my silkwraps both games and had nothing to target them with.
He complimented me on the deck after the match saying he never expected to see anything like it after theros rotated.
Match 3: 2-1 Vs. Abzan Harden the scales.
His deck was built around value creatures such as siege rhino and hangarback walker. I won the first game because he couldn't find any white mana sources.
He won the second game because I got stuck on four lands (even with a Monastery Siege out on my third turn) and my removal couldn't keep up.
The third game was closer, but he got a bit flooded while I kept drawing gas and thinning my deck thanks to three knight of the white orchids in a row. I got Narset Transcendent out on my fourth turn. I suspected he had a languish in his hand and I stalled playing a starfield until I could leave two mana untapped for negate. Instead of drawing lands I eventually got Narset's loyalty to nine and then got her emblem which allowed me to tap out and cast Starfield happy in the knowlege that he couldn't boardwipe and get his creatures back.
Match 4: 1-1-1 Vs. BW warriors
The first game my opponent curved out perfectly mardu woe-reaper, Blood-Chin Rager, Chief of the Edge, Sorin Solumn Visitor and Brutal Hordechief. I get the feeling I could have stablized if it wasn't for the hordechief draining me the rest of the way when he played it.
In the second match radiant flames was an all-star, but I was tired and misplayed which made the game go long even though I won it in the end.
I would have won the third game, as I had stablized and was beginning to bury my opponent in card advantage, but ran out of time and didn't have enough echantments on board to activate starfield and swing for the win.
Overall I'm happy with the way things went tonight with my list, I need to make a few changes and maybe narrow the deck's focus a bit more as it felt like my build was stuck in between control and midrange and I feel like I can gain a lot by choosing one of those strategies and sticking to it.
More than anything I've been wondering if Esper may be the way to go. The main reason I chose Jeskai was for Radiant Flames in the sideboard, and while it proved to be awesome in every match I sided it in, I usually found myself holding off from casting it on turn three, opting to let my opponent commit more creatures to his side of the board before casting radiant flames, because of this I feel Languish may be just as effective and it hits all the most commonly played dragons besides atarka and silgumar the drifting death.
4 Silkwrap
4 Stasis Snare
2 Monastery Siege
3 Quarantine Field
2 Starfield of Nyx
3 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Instants & Sorceries (15):
3 Anticipate
3 Scatter to the Winds
2 Ojutai's Command
2 Secure the Wastes
2 End Hostilities
1 Treasure Cruise
2 Dig Through Time
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands (25):
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Prairie Stream
3 Tranquil Cove
1 Blighted Cataract
1 Spawning Bed
5 Island
8 Plains
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Surge of Righteousness
2 Negate
2 Horribly Awry
1 Radiant Purge
3 Valorous Stance
2 Dispel
1 Planar Outburst
My local shop is pretty heavy in Abzan and R/G midrange decks, so I tuned the deck to be a little more Control oriented, cutting back on some of the enchantments for more counterspells and draw (Though I only ended up playing 1 Abzan match!).
I played:
Round 1: U/G Ramp (Early counterspells ramping to Eldrazi; Pilot was quite young and not a super experienced player, so I don't know how this match might have gone otherwise) - Won 2-0
Round 2: Mardu Dragons (Mainly a R/B dragon deck (Kolagan and Thunderbreak) with some white for Mardu charm and Silkwrap) - Won 2-0
Round 3: Abzan Midrange (Had a 1-of Tragic Arrogance in the Sideboard that destroyed me game two; and I was able to predict and counter game 3, though it was still quite close. Definitely one of the hardest cards for this deck to beat) - Won 2-1
Round 4: Jeskai Black (First game I got triple Mantis Rider-ed (was able to take out 1, but was overall waaaay to quick); game two I ended up Mana screwed )
Round 5: R/G Ramp/Midrange (These kind of decks I think are almost an auto win for us, as the enchantment removal is so solid, and they have to tap out to play their big threats, leaving them very susceptible to counter magic) - Won 2-0
I love the deck, and the consistency is great; I do feel a little nervous against aggro, still, and even with the Clerics and Ojutai's Commands, but there is probably not much to do about it.
I included the 1 copy of Spawning Bed on recommendation from my friend. It actually is incredible: it can create instant speed blockers, if they threaten lethal, Can provide 3 for a Quarantine Field with some extra reach, and even give a couple of attackers if we have the game on lockdown and need to start a clock. I highly recommend a 1-of.
Overall I think this turned out well, but I will be trying a couple more enchantments next week, probably adding in another copy of Monastery Siege, as I was always happy to have one of these on board, and maybe a Citadel Siege to see how it fares. I also found Narset to be just a "sometimes" card advantage engine, and not really all that spectacular. I included her thinking I could utilize her second ability a bit more with some more draw spells, but in general I found Gideon to be just more of a threat at 4 mana. I think I will try a second copy of him if I can get one, and otherwise maybe try an Ugin?
Also: Quarantine Field is AMAZING.
Standard - UW Enchantment Control
Narset's value also goes down a little because the fetchlands do thin the lands in your library making her slightly more likely to draw a card, and if you +1 her and see a land you can always crack a fetchland to shuffle your library to hopefully draw something on your next turn other than that land.
4x Quarantine Field
4x Sigil of the Empty Throne
4x Silkwrap
3x Starfield of Nyx
4x Stasis Snare
4x Suspension Field
Planeswalker
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4x Blessed Spirits
1x Emeria Shepherd
4x Knight of the White Orchid
2x Oblivion Sower
3x Pilgrim's Eye
Sorcery
2x Planar Outburst
Land
20x Plains
2x Gideon's Phalanx
3x Lantern Scout
1x Oblivion Sower
2x Resupply
3x Secure the Wastes
4x Seeker of the Way
I'd also put in one or two Canopy Vistas and one or two Prairie Streams so that you can have something to fetch if Oblivion Sower lets you play your Opponents' exiled fetchlands. If you do put them in then the only fetchland that will be "dead" to you is Bloodstained Mire.
Murder Investigation could also be worth trying if you decide to increase the amount of Wrath effects you mainboard. You can play it on an opponent's fatty before casting a wrath and then get a bunch of 1/1s out of it (It would be a hilarious thing to play on a Pacifismed Managorger Hydra the turn before you cast a board wipe.)
Sadly, murder investigation can only be put on a creature YOU control, not the opponents. I've been trying to break that card for a while but I don't think this is the deck to do it unfortunately. He could always put it on a sower or a pumped up blessed spirits, but eh.
Hipster mike as far as your deck goes, mono white COULD work, but you need to figure out a way to reliably get enchantments in the graveyard for starfield, since you now don't have access to monastery siege. In white colors, the best way to really do that is gonna be mastery of the unseen. I'd also recomment hedron archive to go along with it to to help with mastery's mana costs. Archive also has some synergy with emeria shepard as well; it helps you ramp up to it, and it's yet another thing the shepard can reanimate from the yard, like right after you sacrificed it to itself for card draw for example.
You could also convert it to a sage's reverie deck if you wanted like darklingscribe said. The reverie deck is a lot of fun to play from experience but you also need to be careful. silkwrap and stasis snare are 9/10 just better removal compared to pacifism and singing bell strike. I also have found sigil of the empty throne a tad bit better than starfield of nyx surprisingly in that deck mainly because of all the lowcost enchantments you run.
1x Blighted Cataract
2x Canopy Vista
4x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
6x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
3x Windswept Heath
Enchantments
4x Monastery Siege
3x Quarantine Field
3x Retreat to Kazandu
3x Sigil of the Empty Throne
4x Silkwrap
3x Starfield of Nyx
4x Stasis Snare
4x Narset Transcendent
Sorcery
3x End Hostilities
3x Swift Reckoning
Creatures
2x Emeria Shepherd
4x Dispel
2x Erase
3x Monastery Mentor
4x Myth Realized
2x Surge of Righteousness
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW
GWR Mayael the Anima RWG
RWB Edgar Markov BWR
WG Gaddok Teeg GW
W Oketra the True W
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My Decklist Folder
Thanks for pointing that out, I completely overlooked that piece of text.
It used to be W/G last standard (I personally see this deck as the natural successor to the constellation deck from last standard but they are of course 2 different decks) but yeah W/U is pretty much the accepted base colors. You don't HAVE to play blue, the primary color is white obviously, but you miss out on the monastery siege/starfield "combo" which wins games on its own. Plus it gives you the entire suite of counterspells at your fingertips to help protect your permanents (Ugin hurts mayne)
You're not shoehorned into only the 2 main colors though. This deck can very esily go into bant, esper, or even jeskai thanks to the manabase we have, and there's actual reasons to consider all these combinations too. That's one of the reasons why I like this deck, there's a pretty established base to it but also has tons of room for experimentation.
I've been experimenting with the shep too but imo you really need a way to ramp into it. knight of the white orchid, pilgrim's eye, and hedron archive are the first things that come to mind. You could try building it as "the standard version of the Sun Titan Deck" from modern. I actually might try something like that out myself, sounds pretty interesting.
It is easy to splash a third (and even fourth/fifth) color, and there are cards in other colors that would be good in this deck. But. I choose to play UW because there are simply no other cards in any other color that would work better for my strategy than a white or blue card.
My strategy is to play enchantment based removal, enchantment based finishers, and support cards that help me survive to get what I need.
Black red and green do not have enchantment based removal cards that are better than the 15 that I play, nor is there room for more.
Black red and green do not have enchantment based finishers that are better than the 8 that I play, nor is there room for more.
Black red and green do not appear to have support cards that are better at supporting my strategy than the 13 that I play. At least none that I am willing to make room for.
Black and green do have some lands that would be better for my strategy than what I play, but I am not willing to adjust my mana base just for lumbering falls, shambling vent, and blighted fen.
Thus, I play UW.
Using the nomenclature of these forums, these are our targets.
Proven:
Jeskai(x)
R/x Aggro
GW/x Megamorph Midrange
Established:
Abzan Aggro/Midrange
Esper Dragons
Esper Control
Mardu Dragons/Midrange
Bring to Light
I think of these, our hardest matchups are R/x Aggro and Esper Control. Each of them are on the far ends of the Aggro-Control spectrum, and our deck appears to be the most comfortable dealing with the middle of that spectrum (I.E. anything that says midrange.) I don't have much data on Jeskai, but it appears to rely on creatures and creature removal, and has few ways to deal with enchantments. I think we may do alright against it.
I was watching Caleb Durward play Jeskai last night, and he was relying on 2 Erase and 2 Ojutai's Command to recur a Felidar Cub. Basically he was using them as tempo plays to get rid of Silkwrap so that he could get back Mantis Rider. Jace was also key, of course.
id appreciate any input i receive before tomorrow night.
Displacement wave is probably the best option we have against control strategies I agree. Depending on your meta, I'd put probably about 2 in the sideboard to deal with any decks that like to play secure the wastes as a win con. JeskI is the first that comes to mind
I don't think anyone here has been bashing myth realized, it's a great card. I regularly side it in vs control matchups all the time. It coming down t1 means the control guy has to always be aware of the potential 8/8 that could come swinging in out of nowhere. The fact that both myth realized and sigi of the empty throne trigger off our spells being cast means we get value even if everything is countered.
Slightly off topic, but I'm really starting to think negate should be mainboarded as our go to "counterspell of choice". It stops everything that could be problematic to our deck, and our deck naturally already deals with everything negate doesn't stop.
I know I haven't messed around with tutelage too much but I know a couple guys on here have as an alt win con. Have you tested it at all? Seems a tad bit unnecessary, but I could be wrong!
Good luck tomorrow, and if you can, post your results here and talk about your matchups!
On another note, Ive played around with tutelage and it works great with monastery siege (even better with two of either card). I played it in place of sigil, and it did okay. I was thinking about trying it in place of starfield but never did. Which i know seems weird for a starfield deck, but the way i see it starfield makes you exceptionally vulnerable unless youre swinging for the win the turn that your enchants become creatures. All their creature removal that was dead suddenly becomes relevant the very next turn. Though a successfully ultimated Narset certainly helps with that.
4x knight of the white orhid
2x blight herder
Socery
2x End Hostilities
Instants
4x Clash of Wills
2x Outai's Command
Enchantments
4x silkwrap
4x stasis snare
4x monastery siege
4x starfield of nyx
4x sigil of the empty throne
2x quarantine field
4x flooded strand
2x tranquil cove
4x prairie stream
2x blighted cataract
10x plains
2x island
2x myth realized
2x disperse
2x celestial flare
2x suspension field
2x pacifism
3x negate
2x mastery of the unseen
This is what the list looks like right now, but it could be changing come tomorrow, especially the sidedeck.
I would be playing 2 copies of narset transcendent somewhere in the 75, if my lgs had it.
Trying to decide if I like myth realized or mastery of the unseen more. Leaning towards myth, but not sure.
Blight herders are 100% a flex spot right now, sometimes he's great, sometimes he's not. Trying to decide if processors are even worth it right now.
I'm gonna be heading to my lgs today when I get time to see if they have any citadel sieges, the card is good and I wanna see if I an fit in at least 2.
Decided to go with end hostilities instead of planar outburst, because I really don't want to have a dead sweeper against an awaken deck, and we're already pretty threat dense as it is.
Oh, and pacifism goes in as a way to deal with hexproof targets like the drifting death that give this deck problems. When you recur it back with starfield, you get to attach it to whatever since it's an aura and get around the hexproof, which is pretty nice.
Negates come in for clash of wills often enough to where I'm seriously considering just mainboarding the negates to begin with. Still not sure though.
But yeah, that's the deck, and what I'm gonna be playing tomorrow at WNM and maaayyyybe friday if I have the time. I'm sure you guys will have some pointers for me before then though lol
Yep, I can confirm that. I play it as a 4-of and getting one in there early is essential against control.
I'm in agreement with you there, I've slowly been removing the Clash of Wills and been adding in the Negate and haven't noticed any negative difference.
I gotta admit, I hadn't enough thought of Sphinx's Tutelage due to the high CMC when we already have Starfield of Nyx and Sigil of the Empty Throne but it's a really neat card. I think that if I did run it, I'd go the Treasure Cruise route rather than Dig Through Time .
Speaking of which, due to me realizing that I had 6 Deltas and only 2 Strands, I'm going to have to force an Esper deck for Game Day instead of the Bant deck I originally had planned to go with.
However, I think that going Esper gives us a ton of spells that counteract our weaknesses.
So far in games I've played, I've seen that my particular deck's weaknesses were:
-Too many 1 for 1's, very little card advantage until I hit the 5 mana slot
-No defense against incremental life loss (i.e. from Siege Rhino, flame slash, etc)
For green, there's always Feed the Clan but I don't think it's enough. In black though we get access to Shambling Vent and Languish, both of which are ideal for my weaknesses.
Demonic Pact is sweet too, that right there is a huge advantage engine as long as we can close out the game.
For this, I'm thinking something along the following:
4x Monastery Siege
3x Myth Realized
3x Quarantine Field
4x Sigil of the Empty Throne
4x Silkwrap
2x Starfield of Nyx
4x Stasis Snare
2x Blighted Cataract
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Shambling Vent
10x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
2x Treasure Cruise
4x Negate
2x Languish
Basically, Languish takes place of End Hostilities and Demonic Pact takes place of From Beyond , which I've felt is too slow anyway. Dropped a single Myth Realized for two Treasure Cruise. And Shambling Vent is there to help with lifegain. Hopefully that should be enough, we will see!
Esper has some sweet toys to it but why only 2 starfield? Is it cuz you're also running demonic pact? It seems like you'd want to see starfield asap so you have a reliable way of blowing pact up before it's too late.
To be fair this deck doesn't really start playing until t5 onward but I know what you mean, a way to protect yourself early game is important. Usually the exile enchantments are enough for me but I can see why it might be difficult. Languish could be good but the fact you can't cast it till t4 kinda makes me nervous against aggro. Displacement wave is just better against token strategies and serviceable against other wide decks till you can stabilize and start going off. If you were playing jeskai then radiant flames would be the best out of all of them of course but idk
There's always ojutais command if you're worried about lifegain but idk. Shambling vent I agree is just amazing and reason enough to go esper.
I've thought about including wasteland strangler if I ever made an esper list in paper but idk, sometimes he's good sometimes he's just eh, don't know if he's worth it.
Man do I wish blink effects were in standard right now...
I did try out Seeker of the Way with the idea that it can gain me 3 life just about every turn in this deck, but it turned on too much of my opponent's removal to be useful.
I tried Jeskai Charm, thinking that it can double as removal (especially if it is used on an opponent's creature in response to them cracking a fetchland) and it could allow me to freely attack with all of my enchantments a little earlier because I'd gain a life buffer, but this deck really wants to be able to attack the turn Starfield hits the field and I never had the mana to cast the charm the same turn.
Lightform seemed the most useful in my tests outside of the vent. It helped shore up my defenses by blocking fliers (and usally died doing so), but more importantly kept Ojutai and other dragons from connecting if I had no immediate answer and acted as a one creature fog for the round. The nice thing about lightform is that opposing exile effects can't remove the enchantment (unless they target the aura rather than the creature and doing so still leaves you with a 2/2) and it goes to the yard where starfield can bring it back. It also gives the deck a creature starfield can bring back from the yard which is great if I need a blocker and won't be able to get to five enchantments to turn them into creatures.
I also tried Helm of the gods to increase shambling vent's power, but I found that it usually resulted in my opponent targeting the vent with a removal spell in response to the equip ablilty entering the stack. I feel like making the vent hit for more damage made it more of a relevant threat and more likely to die to removal.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Canopy Vista
2 Blighted Steppe
1 Blighted Woodland
7 Plains
1 Forest
4 Herald of the Pantheon
1 Blight Herder
Enchantments (26)
2 Myth Realized
2 Suspension Field
4 Silkwrap
4 Stasis Snare
3 Retreat to Emeria
3 From Beyond
4 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Quarantine Field
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spells (2)
2 Secure the Wastes
The deck is a bit more skewed towards a token theme and can usually just win fromm overrunning an opponent with a bunch of tokens and a gideon emblem/Retreat to Emeria pump.
Blight Herder is fetchable with from beyond and will process the exiled creatures. and Secure the Wastes is a surprise win con that can close out a lot of games out of nowhere.