I posted my list in a different thread on UG Eldrazi but I'll repeat the ideas here. Use fewer ramp creatures and instead focus on landfall and lifegain. Given the strength of threats in this format until turn 5 and 6 it's much easier to just outheal whatever the opponent is doing than to try and block it. For example Retreat to Kazandu is 2 life per landfall, the 1 cmc guy is 1 life per, Retreat to Hagra is 1 life per, and Guardian of Tazeem is a sleep effect. With an Alhmarett's Archive and 3 life in each landfall trigger a Nissa's Renewal ramps you from 6 mana to 9 while generating 3 3 life landfall triggers and the 7 life on the spell for 16 life. With an archive that's 32 life with a great setup to cast Ulamog on the following turn. Even playing and cracking a fetch under that scenario nets you +11 life (or 5 if you just crack) and playing a Thornwood Falls is worth 8 life. That adds up to making you very hard to kill.
All those triggers can also get you some rather large Undergrowth Champions to block.
Life gain means nothing if you can't get your win con out, and only ulamog won't assist you there. There's no need to gain that much life per landfall anyway. Simply the retreat is enough to thwart aggro.
you bring a good point though and that retreat would make good sideboard tech.
I was play testing something more in line with GR Devo last format and it has been working very well. Obviously still rough, but Kiora has been fantastic. I could see shaving a Beastcaller or a Shaman of Forgotten Ways for a fourth Kiora, a Sarkhan Unbroken, or perhaps Crater's Claws. Also, could have more one ofs to fetch with Woodland Bellower, perhaps Savage Knuckleblades or Catacomb Sifter. No SB yet as it still is a work in progress with the maindeck, though there are many great options in this topic.
My only bad matchup so far as has been the "Gruul/Atarka Deck Wins"... lifegain definitely seems like a necessity for the eldrazi model at the very least because with monastery swiftspear it is definitely possible to have lost to damage by turn four, with turn three even being possible with a totally bonkers hand. The power of become immense with monastery swiftspears against a deck that doesn't want to block early on can't be understated.
Example: I actually had a game that went
Opponent: T1 Mountain, Swiftspear, swing for 1
Me: T1 Forest, Pass
Opp: T2 Mountain, second Swiftspear, titan's strength, swing for 7
Me: T2 Mountain, Rattleclaw (didn't have anything better), pass
Opp: T3, Forest, Wild Slash Rattleclaw, Atarka's Command, dealing 3 and pumping, swing for 6
After that, without drawing into any life gain it was easy enough for him to close out the game. I feel like this alone is enough to make the straight out ramp to Eldrazi plan bad since there's a lot of aggressive decks like that being played. (Especially since in an ideal draw with fetches, titan's strength, swiftspear, and become immense 20 damage is possible on turn 3 for R/x Aggro)
In short, I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like the plan against aggro has to be more than just a SB plan for a deck like ours.
lifegain nothing to do with the success. Pros dont do it/run it. Atarka's command can hose your life gain in any event and its a main deck card in Red and landfall aggro decks.
Like Ali did, play good blockcers turns 2 & 3: Hangarback, Catacomb sifter, blisterpod (a favorite of mine), shaman of forgotten ways, deathmist raptor.
Or play removal:roast, wildslash, draconic roar, radiant flames
lets not get distracted by lifegain discussions.
Life gain sometimes is quite essential, maybe like Dragonlord Dromoka as huge roadblock and a life gainer.
I was thinking of Naya version featuring Dragonlord Dromoka, Dragonlord Atarka and maybe top end Emeria Shepherd as reanimator. I would avoid using mana dorks too much as ramp because very much vulnerable to early sweepers like Radiant Flames. I've seen few playtests and it did not go well. Maybe land ramp as we have quite a number of them, and at instant speed too but that makes the deck vulnerable to aggro decks, no early blockers.
I agree, I plan on using the 5 color build from scg indy as a base. I think that it is the right way to go, use weepers, maybe a languish and two utter ends in the mb to deal with bigger fast threats that flames doesnt kill. My olny though is besides hangarback or endless one, is there a better earlier guy we can use other than catacomb sifter ? Maybe an ingest guy to help the impact of oblivion sower , which i believe is a mandatory 2 of if not more, especially without creature ramp.
Life gain sometimes is quite essential, maybe like Dragonlord Dromoka as huge roadblock and a life gainer.
I was thinking of Naya version featuring Dragonlord Dromoka, Dragonlord Atarka and maybe top end Emeria Shepherd as reanimator. I would avoid using mana dorks too much as ramp because very much vulnerable to early sweepers like Radiant Flames. I've seen few playtests and it did not go well. Maybe land ramp as we have quite a number of them, and at instant speed too but that makes the deck vulnerable to aggro decks, no early blockers.
Anger of the gods was a better sweeper than radiant flames and yet GR devotion still ran wild.
I am not buying that theory of not playing dorks because of sweepers.
once you have 2 dorks in play you do not need to play anymore unless you are missing land drops.
Your opponent is also forced to have it and they have only around 3 turns to obtain it before it no longer matters.
As I see it the current issue is there are no turn 1 dorks or T2 spells like rampant growth to accelerate you.
I think this breaks the 'ramp camp' into 2, dorks and 'dirdles'. Ali Aintrazi said during his deck tech that because there were no turn 2 spells he was not going to play dorks and instead run maindeck radiant flames and other good blockers like catacomb sifter and hangarback walker then start accelerating on turn 4 http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_fivecolor_eldrazi_wi.html
I kind of like the idea of not playing with any dorks and instead focusing on early board control until you can start ramping. It plays almost like a midrange deck that goes big at a moment's notice.
Life gain sometimes is quite essential, maybe like Dragonlord Dromoka as huge roadblock and a life gainer.
I was thinking of Naya version featuring Dragonlord Dromoka, Dragonlord Atarka and maybe top end Emeria Shepherd as reanimator. I would avoid using mana dorks too much as ramp because very much vulnerable to early sweepers like Radiant Flames. I've seen few playtests and it did not go well. Maybe land ramp as we have quite a number of them, and at instant speed too but that makes the deck vulnerable to aggro decks, no early blockers.
Anger of the gods was a better sweeper than radiant flames and yet GR devotion still ran wild.
I am not buying that theory of not playing dorks because of sweepers.
once you have 2 dorks in play you do not need to play anymore unless you are missing land drops.
Your opponent is also forced to have it and they have only around 3 turns to obtain it before it no longer matters.
As I see it the current issue is there are no turn 1 dorks or T2 spells like rampant growth to accelerate you.
I think this breaks the 'ramp camp' into 2, dorks and 'dirdles'. Ali Aintrazi said during his deck tech that because there were no turn 2 spells he was not going to play dorks and instead run maindeck radiant flames and other good blockers like catacomb sifter and hangarback walker then start accelerating on turn 4 http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_fivecolor_eldrazi_wi.html
In the previous season, yeah Anger of the Gods was a better sweeper than Radiant Flames but we rarely saw it in SB from less to none because most of the decks focused on defeating Abzan instead. Sylvan Caryatid has hexproof body was so good it's like Rampant Growth but that's the past.
Moving forward, most of current mana dorks vulnerable to early burn spells like Wild Slash and Fiery Impulse (if any). However, I like Ali Aintrazi's approach on having early blockers and sweepers and start ramping on turn 4. I like Explosive Vegetation to be more than Hedron Archive as it thinner the deck and not to risk of losing to 2 for 1 card like Kolaghan's Command.
Talking about 2 for 1 card, I think that the new format is moving towards this direction.
I honestly think if you're not playing 4 Ulamog's you're doing it wrong. Get in some early ramp, some radiant flames to burn early aggro, some Nissa's Renewal for rebalancing your health and getting some land out, a bit of tutelage, then just exile the hell out of everything with Ulamog's. Feels good.
Obviously the mana base is cheap but I'm out of money. Evolving wilds are my poor man's fetch lands and work well with Jaddi Offshoots, which help the game against quick aggro.
Sagu Mauler is a house against Abzan. I'm highly considering moving the 4th into the main somehow. As far as the sideboard, I'm thinking Plated Crushers come in for the offshoots against Abzan for even more difficult to remove trample threats. I do like the package of eldrazi but also non-eldrazi bigs that you can play on your way to Ulamog or Bane of Bala Ged.
I'll take this to FNM tomorrow night, but full disclosure I haven't played constructed Magic for 7 years. I've been testing this for a week though so I think I've got a handle on the "complexity" here. I think the most complex choice to make is whether to play Rattleclaw Mystic or morph her.
Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Hangarback feels like a must. Early game it chumps and keeps chumping, late game it is just like.having another eldrazi. I do like the idea of blisterpod, get something for when we sweep, temporary ramp. Part of me was considering mist intruder for the evasion and potential to exile more lands
Life gain sometimes is quite essential, maybe like Dragonlord Dromoka as huge roadblock and a life gainer.
I was thinking of Naya version featuring Dragonlord Dromoka, Dragonlord Atarka and maybe top end Emeria Shepherd as reanimator. I would avoid using mana dorks too much as ramp because very much vulnerable to early sweepers like Radiant Flames. I've seen few playtests and it did not go well. Maybe land ramp as we have quite a number of them, and at instant speed too but that makes the deck vulnerable to aggro decks, no early blockers.
Anger of the gods was a better sweeper than radiant flames and yet GR devotion still ran wild.
I am not buying that theory of not playing dorks because of sweepers.
once you have 2 dorks in play you do not need to play anymore unless you are missing land drops.
Your opponent is also forced to have it and they have only around 3 turns to obtain it before it no longer matters.
As I see it the current issue is there are no turn 1 dorks or T2 spells like rampant growth to accelerate you.
I think this breaks the 'ramp camp' into 2, dorks and 'dirdles'. Ali Aintrazi said during his deck tech that because there were no turn 2 spells he was not going to play dorks and instead run maindeck radiant flames and other good blockers like catacomb sifter and hangarback walker then start accelerating on turn 4 http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_fivecolor_eldrazi_wi.html
In the previous season, yeah Anger of the Gods was a better sweeper than Radiant Flames but we rarely saw it in SB from less to none because most of the decks focused on defeating Abzan instead. Sylvan Caryatid has hexproof body was so good it's like Rampant Growth but that's the past.
Moving forward, most of current mana dorks vulnerable to early burn spells like Wild Slash and Fiery Impulse (if any). However, I like Ali Aintrazi's approach on having early blockers and sweepers and start ramping on turn 4. I like Explosive Vegetation to be more than Hedron Archive as it thinner the deck and not to risk of losing to 2 for 1 card like Kolaghan's Command.
Talking about 2 for 1 card, I think that the new format is moving towards this direction.
I used to think that Vegatation was strictly better for the reasons you mentioned until I heard Ali talk about it and watched games played online. Hedron basically costs 2 in that you might be able to cast another cast another spell if you have other mana available. Late game I would rather draw Hedron over Vegatation to draw 2 cards, which is awesome when combined with catacomb sifter prior to.
I think 2 vegatation, 2/3 hedron is a good mix, if you are playing Eldrazi 2 hedron, 2 from beyond feels right.
I've been trying just straight R/G, with a lot of burn and evasive attackers. Mana curved topped at 6 for See the Unwritten. I used Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker last standard and I want to give him a chance in this one, too. According to an article from Melissa de Tora, it's best to use his -3 first to guarantee value, then start using his +1 for flying damage if he survives. Works pretty well for me! Nails many creatures aside from Eldrazi, Siege Rhino and Tasigur, and a sideboard Roast can deal with those. His ult is just a bonus.
lifegain nothing to do with the success. Pros dont do it/run it. Atarka's command can hose your life gain in any event and its a main deck card in Red and landfall aggro decks.
Like Ali did, play good blockcers turns 2 & 3: Hangarback, Catacomb sifter, blisterpod (a favorite of mine), shaman of forgotten ways, deathmist raptor.
Or play removal:roast, wildslash, draconic roar, radiant flames
lets not get distracted by lifegain discussions.
This isn't quite accurate. Lifegain that doesn't progress your board is bad, it's typically just a less effective and more expensive fog. That's not what I'm suggesting though. Getting lifegain while ramping yourself very much is progressing your board. I think you're under estimating just how much life you can gain. When I've goldfished my UG build I've been finding that I can consistently gain an average of 40 life by turn 8 (while also putting out a couple blockers), and I've had individual turns with Nissa's Renewal plus the Archive where I've been able to gain over 50 life in a turn while ramping myself, and by turn 8 gaining 80 life from time to time. Enough life keeps you alive to stabilize the board.
Yes you can be shut down by Atarka's Command but an Utter End also shuts down your Ulamog. You know the great thing about ramp right now though? Your mana growth essentially goes 1-2-4-7-11 if you can go Embodiment of Spring, activate, Explosive Vegetation, Renewal while making land drops. The particular thing about those numbers is that at the 7 and 11 slots the cards you want to cast cost 6 and 10 (Renewal/Ulamog) which leaves you 1 mana left over, the perfect number to protect your plays with Dispel. For that reason I most favor the blue splash though mono green has some appeal as well.
The only real issues are that there isn't enough blue mana for a consistent T1 Embodiment of Spring and that I can't find the room for the Dispels even though I am 100% certain I want 4.
The Eldrazi numbers also probably seem weird but it's because I'm respecting Infinite Obliteration, if you go all in on Ulamog you will lose to that card if they have it.
I started a thread, but it looks like this might fit in here. Please let me know if this doesn't work with what's going on here.
Suggestions/feedback wanted!
The plan is to first beat the stuffing out of them with midrange beef. If they are still alive, See the Unwritten for even bigger stuff. Hardcast the big stuff if necessary.
A preliminary version went 4-1 for second at an 18-person LGS standard event, going 1-1 against Atarka Red and beating Abzan Control, Abzan Rally and Abzan Megamorph.
Bring to Light? It can be played one turn sooner than See. But what for? Tragic Arrogance and Languish are not good for me. See does so much more than "Bring"ing in a Rhino.
Edit 1: +2 Whisperer, -1 Knuckleblade, -1 Island; If the ramp is good, then ramp
Edit 2: tweaked manabase
I too like Bane of Bala Ged but it's unplayable. If they want to red decks can play Processor Assault and Roast giving them potentially 8 ways to deal 5 damage to a creature. I'm pretty sure any ramp target with 5 or less toughness is unplayable for this reason and 4 or less can't block or attack through Rhino so is also useless. Thus the minimum for anything is 6 and preferably 7 on the back end (red has a 6 damage spell too potentially).
I've been thinking about Bant ramp with the ability to throw in black and get your rhino value while keeping the eldrazi and ojutai aspect of the deck intact.
I too like Bane of Bala Ged but it's unplayable. If they want to red decks can play Processor Assault and Roast giving them potentially 8 ways to deal 5 damage to a creature. I'm pretty sure any ramp target with 5 or less toughness is unplayable for this reason and 4 or less can't block or attack through Rhino so is also useless. Thus the minimum for anything is 6 and preferably 7 on the back end (red has a 6 damage spell too potentially).
I was hesitant to run Void Winnower because Abzan Charm exists. Not to mention a T4/T5 untap with Bane of Bala Ged is good game, it dies to both red and black removal. The more I think about it though, Void Winnower avoids every other spot removal Abzan runs and also makes like all of their win conditions dead draws (except Nissa). I think what I'm going to do is cut a Whisperer of the Wilds or a land to get the 4th Sagu Mauler back in the main and replace Bane of Bala Ged with Void Winnower. Is 23 lands too few?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
I was hesitant to run Void Winnower because Abzan Charm exists. Not to mention a T4/T5 untap with Bane of Bala Ged is good game, it dies to both red and black removal. The more I think about it though, Void Winnower avoids every other spot removal Abzan runs and also makes like all of their win conditions dead draws (except Nissa). I think what I'm going to do is cut a Whisperer of the Wilds or a land to get the 4th Sagu Mauler back in the main and replace Bane of Bala Ged with Void Winnower. Is 23 lands too few?
There's still a few answers for Winnower but there's fewer answers for it than for Ulamog. Case in point, Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm deal with both of them, but Utter End only kills one of them. What all of this means to me is that a counter either Dispel or Negate is something you want which is a big part of why I'm running G/U. Bane of Bala Ged also dies to every card mentioned except it also does to Roast and the new better Roast, and it probably can't even attack into an Ojutai or Silumgar (of course, it also gets stolen by Silumgar, unlike Winnower).
I'm not sure on the land count since we're using different ramp builds. Rather than using creature based ramp, I'm using spells that put more lands on the field, so I can have a less interactive method of ramping while enabling a lot of landfall triggers. 25 has been working well for me.
Note that Nissa doesn't fare well against Winnower, if they plus her it dies when you swing and if they make a token the token can't block so Nissa still dies.
I'm not really sold on counterspells because I'm almost always tapped out the turn I play a big creature. If they don't have an answer for it that turn I've probably won. Ulamog is nice because he can protect himself with his double terminate to get them off of a color possibly. I'm going to try running both. It's good having multiple targets for Conduit of Ruin in case the first one doesn't work out. Sagu Mauler is definitely going back to 4-of main. Ramping into that joker is fun. It's only lame if they've got like a Siege Rhino AND an untapped Hangarback Walker on the board....I'm very much considering finding a place for Become Immense in this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
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All those triggers can also get you some rather large Undergrowth Champions to block.
you bring a good point though and that retreat would make good sideboard tech.
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
4 Beastcaller Savant
4 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
3 Deathmist Raptor
3 Woodland Wanderer
4 Whisperwood Elemental
3 Woodland Bellower
4 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Kiora, Master of the Depths
Lands
5 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Lumbering Falls
3 Cinder Glade
1 Prairie Stream
4 Frontier Bivouac
Example: I actually had a game that went
Opponent: T1 Mountain, Swiftspear, swing for 1
Me: T1 Forest, Pass
Opp: T2 Mountain, second Swiftspear, titan's strength, swing for 7
Me: T2 Mountain, Rattleclaw (didn't have anything better), pass
Opp: T3, Forest, Wild Slash Rattleclaw, Atarka's Command, dealing 3 and pumping, swing for 6
After that, without drawing into any life gain it was easy enough for him to close out the game. I feel like this alone is enough to make the straight out ramp to Eldrazi plan bad since there's a lot of aggressive decks like that being played. (Especially since in an ideal draw with fetches, titan's strength, swiftspear, and become immense 20 damage is possible on turn 3 for R/x Aggro)
In short, I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like the plan against aggro has to be more than just a SB plan for a deck like ours.
Like Ali did, play good blockcers turns 2 & 3: Hangarback, Catacomb sifter, blisterpod (a favorite of mine), shaman of forgotten ways, deathmist raptor.
Or play removal:roast, wildslash, draconic roar, radiant flames
lets not get distracted by lifegain discussions.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I was thinking of Naya version featuring Dragonlord Dromoka, Dragonlord Atarka and maybe top end Emeria Shepherd as reanimator. I would avoid using mana dorks too much as ramp because very much vulnerable to early sweepers like Radiant Flames. I've seen few playtests and it did not go well. Maybe land ramp as we have quite a number of them, and at instant speed too but that makes the deck vulnerable to aggro decks, no early blockers.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Anger of the gods was a better sweeper than radiant flames and yet GR devotion still ran wild.
I am not buying that theory of not playing dorks because of sweepers.
once you have 2 dorks in play you do not need to play anymore unless you are missing land drops.
Your opponent is also forced to have it and they have only around 3 turns to obtain it before it no longer matters.
As I see it the current issue is there are no turn 1 dorks or T2 spells like rampant growth to accelerate you.
I think this breaks the 'ramp camp' into 2, dorks and 'dirdles'. Ali Aintrazi said during his deck tech that because there were no turn 2 spells he was not going to play dorks and instead run maindeck radiant flames and other good blockers like catacomb sifter and hangarback walker then start accelerating on turn 4
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_fivecolor_eldrazi_wi.html
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cinder Glade
5x Forest
2x Mountain
3x Smoldering Marsh
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Swamp
2x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Bane of Bala Ged
4x Catacomb Sifter
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Ruin Processor
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Void Winnower
4x Woodland Wanderer
3x Explosive Vegetation
2x Nissa's Pilgrimage
4x Radiant Flames
2x Complete Disregard
4x From Beyond
4x Hedron Archive
I kind of like the idea of not playing with any dorks and instead focusing on early board control until you can start ramping. It plays almost like a midrange deck that goes big at a moment's notice.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
In the previous season, yeah Anger of the Gods was a better sweeper than Radiant Flames but we rarely saw it in SB from less to none because most of the decks focused on defeating Abzan instead. Sylvan Caryatid has hexproof body was so good it's like Rampant Growth but that's the past.
Moving forward, most of current mana dorks vulnerable to early burn spells like Wild Slash and Fiery Impulse (if any). However, I like Ali Aintrazi's approach on having early blockers and sweepers and start ramping on turn 4. I like Explosive Vegetation to be more than Hedron Archive as it thinner the deck and not to risk of losing to 2 for 1 card like Kolaghan's Command.
Talking about 2 for 1 card, I think that the new format is moving towards this direction.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Edit: Apostrophes.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
4x Evolving Wilds
8x Forest
4x Island
3x Lumbering Falls
1x Mountain
4x Yavimaya Coast
Creatures (30)
1x Bane of Bala Ged
2x Conduit of Ruin
3x Hangarback Walker
4x Jaddi Offshoot
1x Oblivion Sower
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
3x Sagu Mauler
3x Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Whisperer of the Wilds
4x Woodland Wanderer
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
Enchantment (3)
3x From Beyond
4x Naturalize
4x Plated Crusher
4x Retreat to Kazandu
1x Sagu Mauler
2x Surrak Dragonclaw
Obviously the mana base is cheap but I'm out of money. Evolving wilds are my poor man's fetch lands and work well with Jaddi Offshoots, which help the game against quick aggro.
Sagu Mauler is a house against Abzan. I'm highly considering moving the 4th into the main somehow. As far as the sideboard, I'm thinking Plated Crushers come in for the offshoots against Abzan for even more difficult to remove trample threats. I do like the package of eldrazi but also non-eldrazi bigs that you can play on your way to Ulamog or Bane of Bala Ged.
I'll take this to FNM tomorrow night, but full disclosure I haven't played constructed Magic for 7 years. I've been testing this for a week though so I think I've got a handle on the "complexity" here. I think the most complex choice to make is whether to play Rattleclaw Mystic or morph her.
One of my favorite first 4 turns went:
T1: Land
T2: Land, Hangarback Walker
T3: Land, Shaman of Forgotten Ways
T4: Land, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Tap Shaman for WB, Activate Kiora's + 1, Untap Shaman and a Land, Tap Shaman for RG, Woodland Wanderer, 1 land still untapped to pump Hangarback Walker
T4 with a 2/2 hangarback, shaman, 6/6 trample vigilance, and an active Kiora.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Blister pod?
hangarback
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I used to think that Vegatation was strictly better for the reasons you mentioned until I heard Ali talk about it and watched games played online. Hedron basically costs 2 in that you might be able to cast another cast another spell if you have other mana available. Late game I would rather draw Hedron over Vegatation to draw 2 cards, which is awesome when combined with catacomb sifter prior to.
I think 2 vegatation, 2/3 hedron is a good mix, if you are playing Eldrazi 2 hedron, 2 from beyond feels right.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
This decklist helped me go 4-0 at my last FNM:
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Whisperwood Elemental
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Wild Slash
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 See the Unwritten
3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Crater's Claws
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Cinder Glade
3 Rugged Highlands
8 Mountain
8 Forest
Sideboard includes Roast, two more Wild Slash, and Blisterpod, plus Rending Volley for Ojutai and Rhino and Hedron Arrows against Eldrazi.
...Unless anyone thinks that Sarkhan Unbroken generates even more value than the mono-red one? I was curious about how people compare the Sarkhans
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
This isn't quite accurate. Lifegain that doesn't progress your board is bad, it's typically just a less effective and more expensive fog. That's not what I'm suggesting though. Getting lifegain while ramping yourself very much is progressing your board. I think you're under estimating just how much life you can gain. When I've goldfished my UG build I've been finding that I can consistently gain an average of 40 life by turn 8 (while also putting out a couple blockers), and I've had individual turns with Nissa's Renewal plus the Archive where I've been able to gain over 50 life in a turn while ramping myself, and by turn 8 gaining 80 life from time to time. Enough life keeps you alive to stabilize the board.
Yes you can be shut down by Atarka's Command but an Utter End also shuts down your Ulamog. You know the great thing about ramp right now though? Your mana growth essentially goes 1-2-4-7-11 if you can go Embodiment of Spring, activate, Explosive Vegetation, Renewal while making land drops. The particular thing about those numbers is that at the 7 and 11 slots the cards you want to cast cost 6 and 10 (Renewal/Ulamog) which leaves you 1 mana left over, the perfect number to protect your plays with Dispel. For that reason I most favor the blue splash though mono green has some appeal as well.
For your disapproval
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Embodiment of Spring
1 Desolation Twin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
1 Eldrazi Devestator
4 Explosive Vegetation
3 Nissa's Renewal
Enchantment 10
4 Retreat to Kazandu
3 From Beyond
3 Monastery Siege
Artifact 3
3 Alhammarret's Archive
Land 25
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Blighted Cataract
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Thornwood Falls
1 Prairie Stream
1 Canopy Vista
7 Forest
6 Island
The only real issues are that there isn't enough blue mana for a consistent T1 Embodiment of Spring and that I can't find the room for the Dispels even though I am 100% certain I want 4.
The Eldrazi numbers also probably seem weird but it's because I'm respecting Infinite Obliteration, if you go all in on Ulamog you will lose to that card if they have it.
Suggestions/feedback wanted!
The plan is to first beat the stuffing out of them with midrange beef. If they are still alive, See the Unwritten for even bigger stuff. Hardcast the big stuff if necessary.
A preliminary version went 4-1 for second at an 18-person LGS standard event, going 1-1 against Atarka Red and beating Abzan Control, Abzan Rally and Abzan Megamorph.
3 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
3 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Siege Rhino
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
1 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Woodland Bellower
3 Dragonlord Atarka
Other Spells
4 Abzan Charm
1 Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
4 See the Unwritten
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Canopy Vista
2 Cinder Glade
1 Prairie Stream
2 Smoldering Marsh
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Den Protector
3 Dromoka's Command
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Hidden Dragonslayer
1 Stratus Dancer
4 Radiant Flames
1 Exert Influence
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
1 Gaea's Revenge
Manabase notes: 15W11U13B13R16G without the accelerants.
Possible changes:
Edit 2: tweaked manabase
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
I too like Bane of Bala Ged but it's unplayable. If they want to red decks can play Processor Assault and Roast giving them potentially 8 ways to deal 5 damage to a creature. I'm pretty sure any ramp target with 5 or less toughness is unplayable for this reason and 4 or less can't block or attack through Rhino so is also useless. Thus the minimum for anything is 6 and preferably 7 on the back end (red has a 6 damage spell too potentially).
From what I've seen in my testing lately Void Winnower is the best Eldrazi, you gain a vulnerability to Murderous Cut and Rite of Undoing but you dodge Utter End, Reality Shift, Grip of Desolation, and Dead Drop, plus it comes out at a mana less than ulamog and if all that weren't enough a Winnower backed Titan's Presence beats an opposing Ulamog.
Edit: Oh and thopters/Hangarback can't chump it.
I was hesitant to run Void Winnower because Abzan Charm exists. Not to mention a T4/T5 untap with Bane of Bala Ged is good game, it dies to both red and black removal. The more I think about it though, Void Winnower avoids every other spot removal Abzan runs and also makes like all of their win conditions dead draws (except Nissa). I think what I'm going to do is cut a Whisperer of the Wilds or a land to get the 4th Sagu Mauler back in the main and replace Bane of Bala Ged with Void Winnower. Is 23 lands too few?
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
There's still a few answers for Winnower but there's fewer answers for it than for Ulamog. Case in point, Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm deal with both of them, but Utter End only kills one of them. What all of this means to me is that a counter either Dispel or Negate is something you want which is a big part of why I'm running G/U. Bane of Bala Ged also dies to every card mentioned except it also does to Roast and the new better Roast, and it probably can't even attack into an Ojutai or Silumgar (of course, it also gets stolen by Silumgar, unlike Winnower).
I'm not sure on the land count since we're using different ramp builds. Rather than using creature based ramp, I'm using spells that put more lands on the field, so I can have a less interactive method of ramping while enabling a lot of landfall triggers. 25 has been working well for me.
Note that Nissa doesn't fare well against Winnower, if they plus her it dies when you swing and if they make a token the token can't block so Nissa still dies.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-