I tried the Ruin path, but between having to have a t1-2 wastes and the loss of 2 Sanctum and 2 Shrine it was really difficult to have everything in time. But yes, then you're inmune to removal. But... You get yourself into 3 colors deck, and that hurts consistency.
And yeah, ancient stirrings would have been epic
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I ended up going 3-0 last night. First two matches were nothing to write home about (new players; with basic aggro decks that I could have won turns earlier but since both were piloted by 10 to 12 year olds I just used DLA for the beat down.
Match 3 was against Abzan Aggro piloted by a pretty good player. I won 2-0
Both games I was on the draw. Game 1; I kept a hand that was all gas and no finishers (3 lands, Oath, Rattleclaw, 2 Explosive Vegetation) I figured that the Oath would help me search for the finisher. I get duressed on turn 1 and they take Oath. By turn 3 I still haven't drew anything tougher then a rattleclaw; but they also didn't play a threat (they ended up mulling to 5 at the start). So I went turn 3 explosive; turn 4 Explosive to where I finally drew a DLA on turn 5 into a World Breaker turn 6. They were still stuck on 3 lands and scooped.
Game 2 I had to mull to 6 and they kept their hand. My hand was 2 Lands, Oath, Explosive, Chandra and Ugin. I get Transgressed on turn 2 where they took Ugin. They play Sylvan Advocate on turn 3 and turn 4 and start a beat down. I get up to 6 lands in play and play Chandra and use her minus ability to take out the 2 Advocates. The other player had Gideon in play and on their turn instead of attacking Chandra they attacked me taking me down to 5 life. This enabled me on my turn to use Chandra's +1 to attack and kill Gideon and take control of the board playing back to back World Breakers. They didn't draw any removal and that sealed the match.
I feel that the deck is back to running smoothly for me and the combination of Chandra and Ugin give me lots of options for taking back control of the board. Just need to get there to do it
Redirus91 wrote:
On another note; getting real sick of this deck not doing what I want it to and I want to share some useful information I tested last night.
MANY lists have 12 threats, ranging in combinations of: 4 Worldbreaker, 3 Ugin, 2/3 Chandra, 1/2 Atarka, 1/2 Ulamog and 16-19 ramp spells. I myself was at a 12/19 spilt with 4 Oath=35 and many times I would find myself running out of gas and not drawing threats so I decided to move two conduit of Ruin from my SB (opening 2 slots for a 4th Roast and offshoot) to the main taking out 2 heron archive. That increased my threat count without reducing my ramp spells from the SB and I could not have been happier with the result, every time I saw conduit I was happier it was than an archive
I've been running 20 creatures/planewalkers; 15 ramp and 25 lands; which has worked for me. My breakdown is 4 World Breakers, 3 Ulamog, 2 DLA, 4 Rattleclaw, 2 Crawlers, 3 Ugin and 2 Chandra's. If you don't count the dorks I'm running 14 threats which for me have been working since I went back to similar numbers that I had in the deck before Oath came out.
Psy
what does your list look like?
mine is here ~ also for future reference
Note:
The sideboard is setup to work at the LCS that I'm currently playing at so it is not set in stone. The single canopy vista is there because it has been in my land base since the start and I've not changed it out for another basic forest. It was there incase I ever put Hollowed Moonlight in the sideboard and could have been searched for with Sylvan Scrying at the time.
I use to run 3 Rending Volley's and no Roasts in the SB, but I've added the Roast to help deal with some of the Eldrazi that I'm starting to see more; while the 1 Rending Volley is instant speed removal for Reflector Mage, Shambling Vent, Stormchaser Mage, and similar. The Sower's might get changed to 1 Sower and 1 Conduit.
Also, turn 2 eot make a Scion into turn 3 4 mana ramp spell makes a 4th turn Worldbreaker just as well as any mana dork.
Doesn't this only work if you don't use the Scion as mana on turn 4? Since it would be 2 lands on turn 2; turn 3 would be 3 lands in play + Scion; giving you 4 mana which means you can play Explosive or Archive giving you on turn 4 a total of 6 mana if you hit your land drops each turn. I don't see how you can get to 7 mana if you have to use the Scion for mana on turn 3.
Psy
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Yes, but I've found after cutting down to 2 Ugin and 1 Ulamog, in favor of Chandra and Dragonlord Atarka, Shrine isn't even that good. When Shrine only helps 3 cards in my deck and only sometimes does it help Ugin, I'm tempted to just switch in Sea Gate Wreckage. There's too many colorless creatures for Ugin and even turn 5 Ulamog sometimes isn't fast enough. I've found Warping Wail to be great, but there are times where it doesn't do much. Spatial Contortion is interchangeable with Draconic Roar, but Thought-Knot Seer is great in quite a few matchups. The Wastes let you play those cards.
What is our plan against Reflector Mage? As a deck that likes to ramp into the biggest threat on the board Reflector Mage really feels like it slows us down. Do we just play more planeswalkers?
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Yes, but I've found after cutting down to 2 Ugin and 1 Ulamog, in favor of Chandra and Dragonlord Atarka, Shrine isn't even that good. When Shrine only helps 3 cards in my deck and only sometimes does it help Ugin, I'm tempted to just switch in Sea Gate Wreckage. There's too many colorless creatures for Ugin and even turn 5 Ulamog sometimes isn't fast enough. I've found Warping Wail to be great, but there are times where it doesn't do much. Spatial Contortion is interchangeable with Draconic Roar, but Thought-Knot Seer is great in quite a few matchups. The Wastes let you play those cards.
Actually it also works on World Breaker, maybe Hedron Crawler and Warping Wail if it's in your decklist. I mean, it doesn't help cast World breaker earlier if you curved perfectly, but it can catch and opponent off-guard if you, for example, have 6 lands (with 2 shrines), cast Pilgrimage - so now you have 1 mana more than before casting Pilgrimage. I know this sounds like it never happens... but it happened to me quite a few times.
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Yeah, I've had the exact opposite experience with Ruin in their Wake and Warping Wail as Redreius says he's had. Also, turn 2 eot make a Scion into turn 3 4 mana ramp spell makes a 4th turn Worldbreaker just as well as any mana dork. If Ancient Stirrings were reprinted instead of Oath of Nissa, this deck would have been insanely consistent. For me at least, with the meta being so focused around dealing with turn 2 Jace, I will never go the mana dork route.
Yes, but I've found after cutting down to 2 Ugin and 1 Ulamog, in favor of Chandra and Dragonlord Atarka, Shrine isn't even that good. When Shrine only helps 3 cards in my deck and only sometimes does it help Ugin, I'm tempted to just switch in Sea Gate Wreckage. There's too many colorless creatures for Ugin and even turn 5 Ulamog sometimes isn't fast enough. I've found Warping Wail to be great, but there are times where it doesn't do much. Spatial Contortion is interchangeable with Draconic Roar, but Thought-Knot Seer is great in quite a few matchups. The Wastes let you play those cards.
Actually it also works on World Breaker, maybe Hedron Crawler and Warping Wail if it's in your decklist. I mean, it doesn't help cast World breaker earlier if you curved perfectly, but it can catch and opponent off-guard if you, for example, have 6 lands (with 2 shrines), cast Pilgrimage - so now you have 1 mana more than before casting Pilgrimage. I know this sounds like it never happens... but it happened to me quite a few times.
Yep I've done the same quite a few times; have 6 lands in play 2 of them Shrines, cast Pilgrimage getting me to 7 lands; and then use the 2 Shrines to cast a Archive + 2/2 Hangarback when I was running them or a cast for a 4/4 Hangarback just using the shrines.
In my deck they can work like Sol Ring for 15 cards MD (4 World Breakers; 2 Crawlers, 3 Ugin, 3 Archives, 3 Ulamog); plus another 8 cards in my sideboard.
Psy
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Yes, but I've found after cutting down to 2 Ugin and 1 Ulamog, in favor of Chandra and Dragonlord Atarka, Shrine isn't even that good. When Shrine only helps 3 cards in my deck and only sometimes does it help Ugin, I'm tempted to just switch in Sea Gate Wreckage. There's too many colorless creatures for Ugin and even turn 5 Ulamog sometimes isn't fast enough. I've found Warping Wail to be great, but there are times where it doesn't do much. Spatial Contortion is interchangeable with Draconic Roar, but Thought-Knot Seer is great in quite a few matchups. The Wastes let you play those cards.
Actually it also works on World Breaker, maybe Hedron Crawler and Warping Wail if it's in your decklist. I mean, it doesn't help cast World breaker earlier if you curved perfectly, but it can catch and opponent off-guard if you, for example, have 6 lands (with 2 shrines), cast Pilgrimage - so now you have 1 mana more than before casting Pilgrimage. I know this sounds like it never happens... but it happened to me quite a few times.
Yep I've done the same quite a few times; have 6 lands in play 2 of them Shrines, cast Pilgrimage getting me to 7 lands; and then use the 2 Shrines to cast a Archive + 2/2 Hangarback when I was running them or a cast for a 4/4 Hangarback just using the shrines.
In my deck they can work like Sol Ring for 15 cards MD (4 World Breakers; 2 Crawlers, 3 Ugin, 3 Archives, 3 Ulamog); plus another 8 cards in my sideboard.
Psy
Works for Kozilek's return. Might be able to trick opponent with one red and one shrine open.
It doesn't ramp us which could keep it out of our deck BUT it does protect itself, maybe helps a little against aggro and if you plan it right the +2/+2 gives vigilance and haste could be handy while casting a World Breaker, Ulamog, DLA...
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She's great in a more aggressive RG shell, I don't like her in a ramp shell like this. I like Nissa Vastwood over her in this shell even, and she's fallen out of favor by most people (though I have been trying to squeeze her in) - she comes into play to draw us another land, and on flip can give card advantage or ramp, as well as defend herself. I also like Chandra, Flamecaller over Arlinn - every mode of Chandra is what we want to do in this deck.
What do people think are the problems/struggles with this deck? I feel like I can get to 7+ mana pretty easily. My issues are reliably getting 4 mana on turn 3 (so, playing a dork on 2 or a successful RitW if you go that route) I feel like getting to 4 mana on turn 3 is one of our highest percent chance of a win, that usually means we have explosive veg on turn 3 which gives us World Break/DLA/Chandra turn 4 which is pretty strong. The other issue I seem to be having is reliably getting to my threats. I am trying to decide if I need/want a 4th Hedron Archive. That gives me 8 ways to ramp on turn 3/4 that get us to our big stuff. Having additional copies also helps me draw cards. One of the reasons I was thinking about going to a 4th Chandra. Reflector Mage seems to be able to really slow us down, I think more Chandra is the answer to that. I am putting Koz Return back in the deck. Before I felt like it was more match up specific BUT I think having 3 of main board is probably what we want. I can't decide on Sylvan Advocate, on one hand on turn 2 I want to be ramping not playing a creature AND silkwrap really makes the advocate sad. On the other hand it seems like the decks that are placing high are playing Advocate which has to mean something... Anyway, I know this is a lot, just looking for thoughts.
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What do people think are the problems/struggles with this deck? I feel like I can get to 7+ mana pretty easily. My issues are reliably getting 4 mana on turn 3 (so, playing a dork on 2 or a successful RitW if you go that route) I feel like getting to 4 mana on turn 3 is one of our highest percent chance of a win, that usually means we have explosive veg on turn 3 which gives us World Break/DLA/Chandra turn 4 which is pretty strong. The other issue I seem to be having is reliably getting to my threats. I am trying to decide if I need/want a 4th Hedron Archive. That gives me 8 ways to ramp on turn 3/4 that get us to our big stuff. Having additional copies also helps me draw cards. One of the reasons I was thinking about going to a 4th Chandra. Reflector Mage seems to be able to really slow us down, I think more Chandra is the answer to that. I am putting Koz Return back in the deck. Before I felt like it was more match up specific BUT I think having 3 of main board is probably what we want. I can't decide on Sylvan Advocate, on one hand on turn 2 I want to be ramping not playing a creature AND silkwrap really makes the advocate sad. On the other hand it seems like the decks that are placing high are playing Advocate which has to mean something... Anyway, I know this is a lot, just looking for thoughts.
Its true, when playing dorks they can get killed, when you are playing Ruin it might not be as consistent but thats where rattleclaw and Nisss's pilgrimage keep you going next turn.
Hedron or vegatation without a land drop get you to 6, rattleclaw with a land drop does the same thing so consider that.
Its just one of the aspects of the deck you have to navigate every game.
As far as ensuring to draw creatures/threats, make sure you have enough. I think 14 should be the minimum, I came across that issue all the time then I took out 2 main deck archives for 2 sideboarded conduit of ruin and I was NEVER said to myself "I wish this was an archive".
The bonus is that Conduit ramps as well and it also freed 2 spots in my SB, it was a great move, consider it.
So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
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So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
post your entire 75
11 threats IMO is too few, Are you not playing Ugin? If not I would say that alone is the reason for your lack of success, its our BEST threat by far, I play 3
I think a playset of conduit is too much because the deck wants to go 2-4-7 into a T4 Worldbreaker and from there we are going to Ugin then Ulamog. The other cards are there to keep us alive until we get there so IMO 3 chandra is solid and I think at least one DLA is good so you can go with a 7 drop that can kill creatures.
The only reason I added conduit is because I asked myself "what can I add as a threat but still maintain the amount of ramp spells?" Thats when I noticed Conduit jumping up and down raising its hand from my sideboard.
Conduit is also form of ramp that Oath can get, unlike spells, another point of consistently for the dork version.
So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
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So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
Against decks with transgress the mind, having it go to the top of your library secures it, it aint all bad.
So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
Against decks with transgress the mind, having it go to the top of your library secures it, it aint all bad.
Which is why I made the comment of "against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard" I can see it being a sideboard card. I just don't see it being impactful game 1 since we want to play stuff that impacts/changes the board state in our favor.
Psy
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Of course I would rather play DLA or WB or Chandra on turn 4 and I know that it can only tutor for 2 things we normally have in main board (Ulamog and WB). I just don't always have those threats in hand this allows me to find them. I've had enough games where I think if only I had my Ulamog... This gives me 2-4 more chances to find it. Not to mention having multiple WB in hand is great, unless they have reflector mage, then they bounce one and you are wishing you had another threat you could play instead of having to wait a turn. (Yes, I realize if they bounce WB you get to destroy another land when you re play it but taking that threat off the board sometimes is all it takes for them to win). I guess I feel like we have some very good and very real 6/7 drop threats but we still REALLY want to play Ulamog. We can pretty reliably get to 7 mana by turn 4/5 and with a conduit out it only takes one more to get to 8 needed for the Ulamog.
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So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
Against decks with transgress the mind, having it go to the top of your library secures it, it aint all bad.
Which is why I made the comment of "against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard" I can see it being a sideboard card. I just don't see it being impactful game 1 since we want to play stuff that impacts/changes the board state in our favor.
Psy
Thats right!
In my specific case the conduits are replacing 2 hedron archives. Thus far I have yet to wish they were archives. With 8 dorks, 3 pilgrimage, 4 veg and 2 archives I have enough to get to 6 and beyond.
I was annoyed with drawing and casting too many ramps spells that do nothing to the board. play conduit, get WB or Ula for next turn, give yourself a blocker and if they use removal on it then they wont have it for the creature you got and casting that creature will hopefully trigger your chain of dudes.
So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
I am trying 2 conduit in my sb for the mono g ramp m/up. tutoring for void winnower, world breaker or ulamog situation dependant. Have been finding the mono g m/up really tough - the version that runs TKS.
I have moved k.returns to my sb. running 3 chandra and 2 ugin main as sweeper(being able to be found off oath is helpful)
So, I have 2 DLA, 3 Chandra (might go to 4 post rotation but we will talk about that when we get there) 4 World Breakers 2 Ulamog as far as big threats are concerned. Currently I have 3 hedron archives just debating if 4 is the answer. I feel like our goal (being ramp and all) is how fast can we get an Ulamog on the board. With WB that changed a bit since that is another big threat. I have considered Conduit and I am still not fully sure why it isn't played more. Why not a playset? I know that a downside to it is that it does not trigger Ugin's Sanctum and other than tutoring its just a 5/5 for 6 but it DOES ramp as you say, the first critter is 2 less. (I'm getting a little crazy here but hear me out) with 4 Counduits we could almost go toolboxy in that we can add Void Winnower to our main or maybe Kozilek and then tutor for what we need next turn. Sure, it will still get bounced by reflector mage but I would rather reflector mage bounce that then the World Breaker I tutored or whatever. IDK, what do you think?
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
I am trying 2 conduit in my sb for the mono g ramp m/up. tutoring for void winnower, world breaker or ulamog situation dependant. Have been finding the mono g m/up really tough - the version that runs TKS.
I have moved k.returns to my sb. running 3 chandra and 2 ugin main as sweeper(being able to be found off oath is helpful)
That match up can be tough since they can ramp up more consistent then us; since they are running 8 to 10 mana dorks; compared to our 0 to 6 and it all comes down to who can get their threats in play the fastest. In this matchup I can see having Conduits in the SB as a good call since they will then help you get your threats out quicker. Where I've been playing lately; there is one person running Mono-G Ramp which started out as a budget version and he has slowly added in the threats needed to make it more competitive. There is also one person us is running a more budget G/R Ramp list that doesn't have Ugin due to cost. So I've not had to face the mirror but twice in the last 3 months.
I've also moved the K Returns to he SB. There were too many matches that I was siding them out; due to facing an opponent that was running 3+ toughness creatures that K Return wasn't killing; unless I was playing it from the graveyard for the 5 damage off the cast of WB or Ulamog.
Psy
Private Mod Note
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
And yeah, ancient stirrings would have been epic
Modern: White Weenie Knights!
EDH: Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR| Daretti, Scrap Savant R
Mine currently looks like this:
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
11 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Cinder Glade
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Canopy Vista
Creatures - 15
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 World Breaker
2 Hedron Crawler
2 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
Ramp - 15
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Hedron Archive
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Void Winnower
3 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Kozilek's Return
1 Orbs of Warding
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Roast
1 Rending Volley
Note:
The sideboard is setup to work at the LCS that I'm currently playing at so it is not set in stone. The single canopy vista is there because it has been in my land base since the start and I've not changed it out for another basic forest. It was there incase I ever put Hollowed Moonlight in the sideboard and could have been searched for with Sylvan Scrying at the time.
I use to run 3 Rending Volley's and no Roasts in the SB, but I've added the Roast to help deal with some of the Eldrazi that I'm starting to see more; while the 1 Rending Volley is instant speed removal for Reflector Mage, Shambling Vent, Stormchaser Mage, and similar. The Sower's might get changed to 1 Sower and 1 Conduit.
Doesn't this only work if you don't use the Scion as mana on turn 4? Since it would be 2 lands on turn 2; turn 3 would be 3 lands in play + Scion; giving you 4 mana which means you can play Explosive or Archive giving you on turn 4 a total of 6 mana if you hit your land drops each turn. I don't see how you can get to 7 mana if you have to use the Scion for mana on turn 3.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Modern: UW Spirits
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Modern: White Weenie Knights!
EDH: Zedruu, the Greathearted WUR| Daretti, Scrap Savant R
whats your list looking like these days?
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Yep I've done the same quite a few times; have 6 lands in play 2 of them Shrines, cast Pilgrimage getting me to 7 lands; and then use the 2 Shrines to cast a Archive + 2/2 Hangarback when I was running them or a cast for a 4/4 Hangarback just using the shrines.
In my deck they can work like Sol Ring for 15 cards MD (4 World Breakers; 2 Crawlers, 3 Ugin, 3 Archives, 3 Ulamog); plus another 8 cards in my sideboard.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Works for Kozilek's return. Might be able to trick opponent with one red and one shrine open.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
http://www.mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/arlinnkord.html
It doesn't ramp us which could keep it out of our deck BUT it does protect itself, maybe helps a little against aggro and if you plan it right the +2/+2 gives vigilance and haste could be handy while casting a World Breaker, Ulamog, DLA...
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
4 Ruin in their Wake
4 Warping Wail
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Explosive Vegetation
4 Hedron Archive
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 World Breaker
3 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Sanctum of Ugin
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
6 Forest
2 Mountain
6 Wastes
4 Spatial Contortion
1 Roast
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Burn Away
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceasless Hunger
Modern: UW Spirits
What match-ups would a White splash improve and which ones would it do worse?
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Its true, when playing dorks they can get killed, when you are playing Ruin it might not be as consistent but thats where rattleclaw and Nisss's pilgrimage keep you going next turn.
Hedron or vegatation without a land drop get you to 6, rattleclaw with a land drop does the same thing so consider that.
Its just one of the aspects of the deck you have to navigate every game.
As far as ensuring to draw creatures/threats, make sure you have enough. I think 14 should be the minimum, I came across that issue all the time then I took out 2 main deck archives for 2 sideboarded conduit of ruin and I was NEVER said to myself "I wish this was an archive".
The bonus is that Conduit ramps as well and it also freed 2 spots in my SB, it was a great move, consider it.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
post your entire 75
11 threats IMO is too few, Are you not playing Ugin? If not I would say that alone is the reason for your lack of success, its our BEST threat by far, I play 3
I think a playset of conduit is too much because the deck wants to go 2-4-7 into a T4 Worldbreaker and from there we are going to Ugin then Ulamog. The other cards are there to keep us alive until we get there so IMO 3 chandra is solid and I think at least one DLA is good so you can go with a 7 drop that can kill creatures.
The only reason I added conduit is because I asked myself "what can I add as a threat but still maintain the amount of ramp spells?" Thats when I noticed Conduit jumping up and down raising its hand from my sideboard.
Conduit is also form of ramp that Oath can get, unlike spells, another point of consistently for the dork version.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I look at it this way; Conduit doesn't effect or change the board state when cast. World Breaker, DLA, Ugin, Ulamog, Chandra and Sowers all affect the board when they are cast or enter the battlefield. World Breaker, Ugin and Ulamog exile stuff; DLA and Chandra act as creature removal/board wipes; Sowers can end up ramping you further. What does Conduit do? It allows you to tutor for a colorless creature card with a converted mana cost of 7 or greater. So it can find World Breaker, Kozilek; Void Winnower and Ulamog in most decks. It can't find Ugin; DLA or Chandra. The card it does allow you to find; goes on the top of your library so you have to wait a turn to draw it in most cases. While it does help with the mana cost of the 1st creature you cast each turn; you have to wait until the next turn to use this ability.
It costs 6 mana to cast; which means you are going to play it on turn 4 at the earliest and which would you rather play? Conduit or World Breaker/DLA/Chandra? By turn 5 you want to play World Breaker/DLA/Chandra or Ugin. Turn 6 is the previous plus Ulamog.
I see it as a sideboard card that can help against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard; since I can see us wanting the ability to tutor for another threat if one got stripped from our hand. I can also see it used against the mirror; since the 1st deck to get a Void Winnower in play normally winds the mirror match.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Against decks with transgress the mind, having it go to the top of your library secures it, it aint all bad.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
4x Rattleclaw Mystic
4x World Breaker
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Hedron Crawler
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Dragonlord Atarka
Spells(19)
4x Explosive Vegetation
4x Nissa's Pilgrimage
4x Oath of Nissa
3x Chandra, Flamecaller
2x Hedron Archive
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
9x Forest
4x Sanctum of Ugin
4x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
3x Mountain
3x Wooded Foothills
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Cinder Glade
4x Jaddi Offshoot
3x Kozilek's Return
2x Conduit of Ruin
2x Plummet
2x Roast
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Void Winnower
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Which is why I made the comment of "against decks that pack a lot of removal or discard" I can see it being a sideboard card. I just don't see it being impactful game 1 since we want to play stuff that impacts/changes the board state in our favor.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I am trying 2 conduit in my sb for the mono g ramp m/up. tutoring for void winnower, world breaker or ulamog situation dependant. Have been finding the mono g m/up really tough - the version that runs TKS.
I have moved k.returns to my sb. running 3 chandra and 2 ugin main as sweeper(being able to be found off oath is helpful)
That match up can be tough since they can ramp up more consistent then us; since they are running 8 to 10 mana dorks; compared to our 0 to 6 and it all comes down to who can get their threats in play the fastest. In this matchup I can see having Conduits in the SB as a good call since they will then help you get your threats out quicker. Where I've been playing lately; there is one person running Mono-G Ramp which started out as a budget version and he has slowly added in the threats needed to make it more competitive. There is also one person us is running a more budget G/R Ramp list that doesn't have Ugin due to cost. So I've not had to face the mirror but twice in the last 3 months.
I've also moved the K Returns to he SB. There were too many matches that I was siding them out; due to facing an opponent that was running 3+ toughness creatures that K Return wasn't killing; unless I was playing it from the graveyard for the 5 damage off the cast of WB or Ulamog.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0