I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
ruin + wail is the next direction I am going. I like the versatility that wail provides:countering ramp spells against the mirror or ramping faster, killing an aggro creature or countering a discard spell.
What is the best land base to go with this style?
My mana base has been rock solid. Only very rarely have issues with not getting Forest and Wastes into play by turn 2. The two red sources is fine because every Ramp spell can fetch them. I have Smoldering Marsh and canopy vista in there more to give me targets for fetch lands I steal off Oblivion Sower. I moved down to 1 Oblivion Sower and reduced my curve away from the 10 mana titans, so the Smoldering Marsh may become a Wastes.
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
Thoughts on the updated list?
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
Then if you are playing 3 hedrons then 7 lands comes later, shrine of the gods loses its explosiveness, I took mine out all together.
By the numbers to hit that T1 Oath you need at least 14 T1 green sources. My mana base looks like this:
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
I hadn't considered that. Definitely something I will try out now because that makes a lot of sense, lets us easily go from 4 to 8 with warping wail or if on the play we can counter an infinite obliteration. It does make shrine worse so I could see -1 shrine +1 forest to have more green sources.
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
Thoughts on the updated list?
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
Then if you are playing 3 hedrons then 7 lands comes later, shrine of the gods loses its explosiveness, I took mine out all together.
By the numbers to hit that T1 Oath you need at least 14 T1 green sources. My mana base looks like this:
I dont know if 4 wastes is enough to get Ruin to be used as we want it to but I am playing 4 Oaths to help out.
4 Wastes isn't even close to enough to reliably get Ruin full value by T2 over 70% of the time (I believe I read you need 8 wastes, 4 evolving), but I'm willing to make that consession since going up to 8 Wastes kills the consistency in the much more important part to me - getting basic forests. Almost any opener where you don't have a forest or cannot get a forest is likely a mulligan.
At 4 Wastes and 4 Evolving Wilds you hit a little over 70% of the time. I am okay with that percentage given that Sylvan Scrying isn't an UNPLAYABlE card and sometimes you will still be able to cash this in on Turn 4+ as a Rampant Growth. Plus, with Oath of Nissa making more of an appearance, you are only helping the percentages.
Considering how well I've done the last two weeks winning a total of 3 games out of 11 played and changing the sleeves to Dragon Shields from the Ultra-Pro's and I've also decided to go back to how the deck was setup before Oath arrived and make changes from there.
This means going back to using manadorks instead of trying to get Ruin in their Wake to work as Rampant Growth on a consistent basis. My deck before Oath came out was:
Before the changes I was winning 72% of the games that I played. Quite a few of the games I lost were due to misplays with me learning the deck and getting back into playing after not playing for 5 years. I would also run into games to where I just flooded out with mana and never drew a threat.
Since Oath I have tried to put together a list that runs Ruin's and I've also used a list similar to Voltage's with about 8 cards different since I don't own the fetches changed 4 other cards. As I said earlier I've won 3 out of 11 games the past two weeks using those lists. It is either the way I shuffle; it could be the sleeves which are causing the cards to bunch or it just could be that I have very terrible luck.
In those 11 games I've had Ruin work as Rampant Growth in 2 of them. In the others I either didn't have a Forest; Evolving Wilds or Waste in hand on turn 1; and either didn't draw the waste on turn 2 or I would then draw an Evolving Wilds on turn 2 which would ended up slowing me down on later turns. I tip my hat off to everyone else who seems to pull this off with no issues each game. I just can't seem to do it consistently enough for me to trust it.
So with that in mind I'm going to sleeve up this for this weekend:
The 1 Kozilek's Return in the main will more than likely get moved to the sideboard. I know that it doesn't play well with the Rattleclaw's but normally against fast agro I side the Rattleclaws out and side in Offshoots in their place. This could very well end up being another copy of Chandra in the main or a single Conduit or Sower. I'll have to decide between now and this weekend.
Even though they rotate out in a few months I'm going to just bit the bullet and pick up a set of Wooded Foothills which will allow me to cut down the number of basic's in the list by 1 or 2.
I've got 3 Ugin in the main and plan on having my 4th in the sideboard. While Ugin doesn't do much against Eldrazi; except act as a fireball, he is good against just about all the other decks and very hard for some decks to deal with and can turn on the Sanctums to search for a Ulamog or a World Breaker.
I'm going to run 3 Ulamog's in the main; along with the 4 World Breakers I feel it should give me plenty of end game.
The Matter Reshapers are there as early game road blocks if needed or early pressure that can replace themselves or can end up as ramp or card draw when they are killed; if they are not exiled. This is replacing Hangarbacks that I had in the deck previously. I had good luck with the Hangarbacks due to people not wanting to attack into them or they ended up eating removal that would get used against my larger threats. They were also a good late game mana dump that could also turn on a Sanctum.
Dragonlord Atarka is a 2 of in the main. The deck can get them out turn 4 or 5 pretty consistently and they can act as creature removal as needed and normally something that the other person has to answer or it puts them on a 3 turn clock. I might go down to 1 in the main and put the other in the sideboard and put a Conduit or Sower in it's place.
I look at the rattleclaws as ramp and if the other player wants to waste their removal on them so be it. Yes if they do that it slows me down a turn; but as long as I hit my 1st three land drops then I normally end up still being able to ramp up to a threat faster then they can react.
I'm of the mindset that I'll give up some explosiveness to having a more consistent game plan so for me that means no running Ruin's going back to a manabase that wasn't in my case butchered to work with Ruins. I think that has been my problem the last few weeks. I've worked to try and get the new cards from Oath into the deck and in the process I ended up creating a deck that just didn't work for me.
Psy
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Currently Playing:
Jeskai Control:42-23-5 Elves: 44-31-3 Red-Aggro: 18-9-0 B/G Energy 21-6-0
Changes from my initial list:
-Added the 4th Advocate. Card is bonkers. Basically Tarmogoyf in this deck.
-Cut Kozilek. Didn't want three 10 drops in the deck and Ula is better.
-Cut 2 Return. Too many X/3's in the format, plus I got some new board wipes in...
-Added 2 Chandra. I don't have much experience with her yet but having a six mana card to ramp into is nice and she provides nice pressure, filtering, and the stabilization.
And then in the SB
-Cut Desolation Twin because he was only in there for his devilish good looks.
-Added the 2 Kozi Return for Atarka Red and other weenie decks
-Cut some other chaff like Winds.
-Added a Warping Wail because idk it is less chaffy then Winds? It's still the uncertain spot in the SB.
At 4 Wastes and 4 Evolving Wilds you hit a little over 70% of the time. I am okay with that percentage given that Sylvan Scrying isn't an UNPLAYABlE card and sometimes you will still be able to cash this in on Turn 4+ as a Rampant Growth. Plus, with Oath of Nissa making more of an appearance, you are only helping the percentages.
Glad you found the actual source. I thought what I heard was you wanted 8 wastes and 4 evolving wilds. This article specifically even states 4 Evolving + 4 Wastes will allow it by turn 2 around 70% of the time. Evolving Wilds drawback of tapped land can affect the probability slightly, but not by much.
And you're right, Oath of Nissa does help. I know I've done it a few games with an early Oath in hopes of hitting a wastes. It helps slightly - sometimes have to settle with Evolving Wilds to grab from Oath to play on T2 otherwise and delay the ramp slightly. But after then Ruin is always on as another +1 ramper. 2 CMC helps a lot with getting under the counterspells and casting multiple spells a turn as well.
I'm only confused what to play for sideboard, the 3 Bane of Bala Ged is merely placeholders at the time being. Eldrazi Obligator and Void Winnower are my Mirror Tech. So far I've yet to have a chance to playtest against mirror decks thus I'm not really sure how far this can go.
Main Deck Planar Outburst and Quarantine Field has manage to pull off well before. Immolating Glare is to replace Stasis Snare as it's harder to cast.
I'm only confused what to play for sideboard, the 3 Bane of Bala Ged is merely placeholders at the time being. Eldrazi Obligator and Void Winnower are my Mirror Tech. So far I've yet to have a chance to playtest against mirror decks thus I'm not really sure how far this can go.
Main Deck Planar Outburst and Quarantine Field has manage to pull off well before. Immolating Glare is to replace Stasis Snare as it's harder to cast.
I find in GW versions with Immolating Glare wanting to be able to be cast T2-T3 and Planar Outbursts needing double white, the Ruin in the Wake versions are tough to support consistently. Hell I moved to a version of 6 fetches and 2 Canopy Vistas to help with it.
I think if you're playing GW it's a crime not to run Dragonlord Dromoka. Uncounterable, lifelink, and forces opponents to play at sorcery speed against us is awesome.
As to the sideboard, for the aggro decks I highly recommend 3-4 Arashin Cleric and getting up to 3 Planar Outbursts in the 75 as well as 2-3 Ugins in the 75. With Arashin Cleric though you again have to consider your manabase - getting him out turn 2 reliably can be rough with the Ruin in Wake versions. Maybe another Immolating Glare as well in the SB. Thought-Knot Seers are great vs the Midrange and Control decks. Not a fan of the Obligator tech since it's so narrow and requires taking up 4 sideboard slots with two of them being lands. Against the mirror the best cards I like are Conduits, Sowers, Void Winnower, and Warping Wail. You already have 2 sowers in the main, so that's more than enough - I don't like more than 1 of them personally.
I'm only confused what to play for sideboard, the 3 Bane of Bala Ged is merely placeholders at the time being. Eldrazi Obligator and Void Winnower are my Mirror Tech. So far I've yet to have a chance to playtest against mirror decks thus I'm not really sure how far this can go.
Main Deck Planar Outburst and Quarantine Field has manage to pull off well before. Immolating Glare is to replace Stasis Snare as it's harder to cast.
I find in GW versions with Immolating Glare wanting to be able to be cast T2-T3 and Planar Outbursts needing double white, the Ruin in the Wake versions are tough to support consistently. Hell I moved to a version of 6 fetches and 2 Canopy Vistas to help with it.
I think if you're playing GW it's a crime not to run Dragonlord Dromoka. Uncounterable, lifelink, and forces opponents to play at sorcery speed against us is awesome.
As to the sideboard, for the aggro decks I highly recommend 3-4 Arashin Cleric and getting up to 3 Planar Outbursts in the 75 as well as 2-3 Ugins in the 75. With Arashin Cleric though you again have to consider your manabase - getting him out turn 2 reliably can be rough with the Ruin in Wake versions. Maybe another Immolating Glare as well in the SB. Thought-Knot Seers are great vs the Midrange and Control decks. Not a fan of the Obligator tech since it's so narrow and requires taking up 4 sideboard slots with two of them being lands. Against the mirror the best cards I like are Conduits, Sowers, Void Winnower, and Warping Wail. You already have 2 sowers in the main, so that's more than enough - I don't like more than 1 of them personally.
You're right on the Obligator, I've tested it again today and to be honest, it's really pointless. I'll swap it out for other stuff. I only have 1 Ugin, 1 Ulamog and 1 Kozilek, looking to aquire 1 more Ulamog but not any more ugin. For now I'll be looking to add in another Immolating Glare in the Sideboard. Thou how many T-K Seer should I play? A full playset?
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
Thoughts on the updated list?
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
Then if you are playing 3 hedrons then 7 lands comes later, shrine of the gods loses its explosiveness, I took mine out all together.
By the numbers to hit that T1 Oath you need at least 14 T1 green sources. My mana base looks like this:
I dont know if 4 wastes is enough to get Ruin to be used as we want it to but I am playing 4 Oaths to help out.
4 Wastes isn't even close to enough to reliably get Ruin full value by T2 over 70% of the time (I believe I read you need 8 wastes, 4 evolving), but I'm willing to make that consession since going up to 8 Wastes kills the consistency in the much more important part to me - getting basic forests. Almost any opener where you don't have a forest or cannot get a forest is likely a mulligan.
So, I am currently mono green but I am debating about splashing a color. What do we think is the best color to splash (or maybe a better question would be what does splashing each color do for us). Ive seen the red splash (I think this is the most common?) with Chandra and Kozilek's Return. There is the white splash with Dragonlord Dromoka and some removal. What about blue splash for Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Skyspawner? I am not sure what Black would splash for specifically, wasteland stranglers and other such things? Anyway, what do we think?
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
So, I am currently mono green but I am debating about splashing a color. What do we think is the best color to splash (or maybe a better question would be what does splashing each color do for us). Ive seen the red splash (I think this is the most common?) with Chandra and Kozilek's Return. There is the white splash with Dragonlord Dromoka and some removal. What about blue splash for Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Skyspawner? I am not sure what Black would splash for specifically, wasteland stranglers and other such things? Anyway, what do we think?
Splashes: White - better removal, sweepers, and life gain options. Red - Chandra is a scary threat. K-return is great against Atarka Red and comes down early at instant speed there (K-return has been underwhelming vs many other decks of 3+ toughness creatures) Blue - Not too familiar with how this one plays out. Looking at recent 5-0 finishes like http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/368774 I think it can be tuned better. With access to Lumbering Falls, you should certainly be playing 4x Sylvan Advocate. With that list I would start with replacing 4x Hangarback with 4x Advocate. GU typically runs 3-4 Whisperwood Elemental as well as 4 Drowner of Hope. It looks like it would do well in the mirror with the SB having Disdainful Strokes and Negates (also great vs the hate against ramp). Black - Never heard of this for a controlling ramp shell. Bx Eldrazi Aggro is a real thing though.
At 4 Wastes and 4 Evolving Wilds you hit a little over 70% of the time. I am okay with that percentage given that Sylvan Scrying isn't an UNPLAYABlE card and sometimes you will still be able to cash this in on Turn 4+ as a Rampant Growth. Plus, with Oath of Nissa making more of an appearance, you are only helping the percentages.
Glad you found the actual source. I thought what I heard was you wanted 8 wastes and 4 evolving wilds. This article specifically even states 4 Evolving + 4 Wastes will allow it by turn 2 around 70% of the time. Evolving Wilds drawback of tapped land can affect the probability slightly, but not by much.
And you're right, Oath of Nissa does help. I know I've done it a few games with an early Oath in hopes of hitting a wastes. It helps slightly - sometimes have to settle with Evolving Wilds to grab from Oath to play on T2 otherwise and delay the ramp slightly. But after then Ruin is always on as another +1 ramper. 2 CMC helps a lot with getting under the counterspells and casting multiple spells a turn as well.
The mana base I put together seems good on paper.
14 T1 green sources to enable Oath on T1, 10 forest, 4 foothills (to get red later for return and chandra)
4 evolving wilds and at least 5 wastes (6 for 26 lands)
2 mtns
I mean the whole reason to run this version is to enable ruin, if you dont get it then its not superior so I am not interested in shrines and sanctums.
Playing in a PPTQ this weekend and it's been hard to find a day to grind this deck out and get a feel. Last night I finally played a list that I had with oaths in the MB and offshoots in the SB and lost both of my matches to red Aggro decks, I did win both of my mirror matches though. So I decided to take oath out and put the offshoots MB and with the three slots open added a fourth offshoot and ulamog in the 75 and to try something new because of the amount of ramp mirrors and void winnower basically winning the game when it hits the table, Eldrazi Obligator
So here's what I'm going to try out tomorrow night at the local FNM
Only 2 Worldbreakers? Only 3 Wastes and 3 Evolving for Ruins? If you're playing Haven, why not add Dragonlord Atarka in there as well? Not sold on Sea Gate wreckage in this shell - I rarely am out of cards, and if I am I have Oath, Hedron Archive, or Chandra to help me get what I need. Sea Gate Wreckage requiring 4 mana to draw a single card is not where I want to be in this deck I don't think.
And the obligatory I've had lousy experiences with Hangarbacks - Sylvan Advocates have performed much better in my testing (and others).
I'm testing 4 Oath of Nissa and so far it's been great. i may even slot Chandra in, in but she doesn't stop Rhino and friends. Ugin is still my go to walker until rotation. Last night, I went 2-2 with my original build, and one of those losses was in the mirror to my own deck! I gave a friend my list and while he tweaked it for his liking the shell and ramp suite was the same. I lost to Conduit of Ruin ramping out to Ulamog and Kozilek dropping shortly after. Game 1 I lost due to not finding more than 1 threat, I ramp all the way to a T5 Ulamog and bricked after that. Game 2 I ran over him, I got to T4 and started casting Oblivion Sower's x3.
I was paired against 2 Atarka decks and while I beat 1 lost to the other. My other win was a bye
Observations:
Chandra may be the extra sweeper the deck needs, and can offer a form of card draw. The atarka match up doesn't seem as bad anymore, Kozilek's return helps a ton here, both games were close 2-1 W and a 1-2 Loss (stablize at 1 life in one game and have 20 power on the table and he rips a burn spell off the top!
Not finding enough threats, here's where Oath of Nissa helped after testing. Not only did the card smooth out the curve, it also gave the deck much, and I mean much needed card selection. (all this after the standard event)
I didn't have any problems turning on Ruin in their Wake last night, I guess in that regard I drew well had an excellent percentage with the card taking me to 3 mana on T3. With Nissa's I saw some iffy hands become keepable after testing and late game it just finds you something to trigger your sanctums with.
Note on Thought-Knot Seer, great in matches where you want to pressure your opponent, but not great in when behind. Still the 4 of in m SB did a lot of work, even against atarka red.
Titan's Presence works, yes it's like really good. it's a 4 of in my Sb and helped in every match. I would say I want it mb but I view the deck as a combo deck, hence G1 I just go all in.
Conduit of Ruin breaks the mirror, I see why some lists run 3x of it.
Only 2 Worldbreakers? Only 3 Wastes and 3 Evolving for Ruins? If you're playing Haven, why not add Dragonlord Atarka in there as well? Not sold on Sea Gate wreckage in this shell - I rarely am out of cards, and if I am I have Oath, Hedron Archive, or Chandra to help me get what I need. Sea Gate Wreckage requiring 4 mana to draw a single card is not where I want to be in this deck I don't think.
And the obligatory I've had lousy experiences with Hangarbacks - Sylvan Advocates have performed much better in my testing (and others).
Yeah I'm trying to figure that out and I think you're right about the advocates. I'm gonna cut the sea gate wreckage too(I just like the card a lot but you're right Chandra and Hedron get me out of those spots for easier mana) but keep the haven in without playing Atarka. I like to be able to get an Ugin back if I need to have that out. There are 4 world breakers total. Just decided to break up the way I play them because I wanted radiant flames to deal with what I think will be an Aggro field this coming weekend.
So, I am currently mono green but I am debating about splashing a color. What do we think is the best color to splash (or maybe a better question would be what does splashing each color do for us). Ive seen the red splash (I think this is the most common?) with Chandra and Kozilek's Return. There is the white splash with Dragonlord Dromoka and some removal. What about blue splash for Drowner of Hope and Eldrazi Skyspawner? I am not sure what Black would splash for specifically, wasteland stranglers and other such things? Anyway, what do we think?
I am not sure how I feel about it yet, it feels like it ramps kinda slow (obviously I am ramp lite) I feel like I am normally just one turn ahead on mana and I am not sure if that is enough. Mind you, I am used to my mono green deck which had to have more ramp. I feel like I can make it to mid/late game now with the board wipe I have available. Obviously I want the 4th World Breaker and I would get rid of the conduits and one sower for a playset of Thought-Knot Seers if I could. The only other issues I feel is that I am having a hard time getting to my Ulamog It probably isn't an issue since I get my other threats like World Breaker and my planes walkers. Again, I am just used to turn 6/7 Ulamog from my mono green because I had more tutor and more ramp. What do you think?
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
I've tuned my RG Ramp deck quite a bit and found a solid place now (though if you have Ugins still, run those in place of a Chandra or maybe 2 Ugins in the 75 somehow): http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rg-ramp-post-rotation-3/
Try that as a base if you're having issues with ramping. Runs 4 Ruin in Their Wake, 3 Pilgrimmage, 3 Vegetation, 2 Hedron, 1 Renewal.
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Modern: Bant Eldrazi EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
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4 Evolving Wilds
9 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
5 Wastes
Ramp Spells
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
4 Ruin in Their Wake
4 Warping Wail
3 Oath of Nissa
Finishers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 World Breaker
Midgame
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Sylvan Advocate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Roast
3 Spatial Contortion
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
Thoughts on the updated list?
I had posted it previously
6x Wastes
2x Mountain
4x Evolving Wilds
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Canopy Vista
3x Sanctum of Ugin
2x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
Then if you are playing 3 hedrons then 7 lands comes later, shrine of the gods loses its explosiveness, I took mine out all together.
By the numbers to hit that T1 Oath you need at least 14 T1 green sources. My mana base looks like this:
4 wastes
2 Mountain
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Wooded Foothill
2 Sanctum of Ugin
I dont know if 4 wastes is enough to get Ruin to be used as we want it to but I am playing 4 Oaths to help out.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I hadn't considered that. Definitely something I will try out now because that makes a lot of sense, lets us easily go from 4 to 8 with warping wail or if on the play we can counter an infinite obliteration. It does make shrine worse so I could see -1 shrine +1 forest to have more green sources.
4 Wastes isn't even close to enough to reliably get Ruin full value by T2 over 70% of the time (I believe I read you need 8 wastes, 4 evolving), but I'm willing to make that consession since going up to 8 Wastes kills the consistency in the much more important part to me - getting basic forests. Almost any opener where you don't have a forest or cannot get a forest is likely a mulligan.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
This means going back to using manadorks instead of trying to get Ruin in their Wake to work as Rampant Growth on a consistent basis. My deck before Oath came out was:
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Dragonlord Atarka
4 Explosive Vegetation
3 Hedron Archive
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Sylvan Scrying
1 Nissa's Renewal
Lands 25
2 Blighted Woodland
11 Forest
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Mountain
1 Cinder Glade
1 Canopy Vista
Before the changes I was winning 72% of the games that I played. Quite a few of the games I lost were due to misplays with me learning the deck and getting back into playing after not playing for 5 years. I would also run into games to where I just flooded out with mana and never drew a threat.
Since Oath I have tried to put together a list that runs Ruin's and I've also used a list similar to Voltage's with about 8 cards different since I don't own the fetches changed 4 other cards. As I said earlier I've won 3 out of 11 games the past two weeks using those lists. It is either the way I shuffle; it could be the sleeves which are causing the cards to bunch or it just could be that I have very terrible luck.
In those 11 games I've had Ruin work as Rampant Growth in 2 of them. In the others I either didn't have a Forest; Evolving Wilds or Waste in hand on turn 1; and either didn't draw the waste on turn 2 or I would then draw an Evolving Wilds on turn 2 which would ended up slowing me down on later turns. I tip my hat off to everyone else who seems to pull this off with no issues each game. I just can't seem to do it consistently enough for me to trust it.
So with that in mind I'm going to sleeve up this for this weekend:
11 Forest
2 Cinder Glade
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
2 Mountain
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Canopy Vista
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Matter Reshaper
4 World Breaker
4 Explosive Vegetation
3 Hedron Archive
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Sylvan Scrying
Utility 1
1 Kozilek's Return
Notes:
My sideboard is in flux so I didn't add it above.
The 1 Kozilek's Return in the main will more than likely get moved to the sideboard. I know that it doesn't play well with the Rattleclaw's but normally against fast agro I side the Rattleclaws out and side in Offshoots in their place. This could very well end up being another copy of Chandra in the main or a single Conduit or Sower. I'll have to decide between now and this weekend.
Even though they rotate out in a few months I'm going to just bit the bullet and pick up a set of Wooded Foothills which will allow me to cut down the number of basic's in the list by 1 or 2.
I've got 3 Ugin in the main and plan on having my 4th in the sideboard. While Ugin doesn't do much against Eldrazi; except act as a fireball, he is good against just about all the other decks and very hard for some decks to deal with and can turn on the Sanctums to search for a Ulamog or a World Breaker.
I'm going to run 3 Ulamog's in the main; along with the 4 World Breakers I feel it should give me plenty of end game.
The Matter Reshapers are there as early game road blocks if needed or early pressure that can replace themselves or can end up as ramp or card draw when they are killed; if they are not exiled. This is replacing Hangarbacks that I had in the deck previously. I had good luck with the Hangarbacks due to people not wanting to attack into them or they ended up eating removal that would get used against my larger threats. They were also a good late game mana dump that could also turn on a Sanctum.
Dragonlord Atarka is a 2 of in the main. The deck can get them out turn 4 or 5 pretty consistently and they can act as creature removal as needed and normally something that the other person has to answer or it puts them on a 3 turn clock. I might go down to 1 in the main and put the other in the sideboard and put a Conduit or Sower in it's place.
I look at the rattleclaws as ramp and if the other player wants to waste their removal on them so be it. Yes if they do that it slows me down a turn; but as long as I hit my 1st three land drops then I normally end up still being able to ramp up to a threat faster then they can react.
I'm of the mindset that I'll give up some explosiveness to having a more consistent game plan so for me that means no running Ruin's going back to a manabase that wasn't in my case butchered to work with Ruins. I think that has been my problem the last few weeks. I've worked to try and get the new cards from Oath into the deck and in the process I ended up creating a deck that just didn't work for me.
Psy
Jeskai Control:42-23-5
Elves: 44-31-3
Red-Aggro: 18-9-0
B/G Energy 21-6-0
Previous Played:
G/r Ramp:125-72-3 - Bant CoCo:64-24-2 - Jeskai Saheeli: 62-25-4 - Mono Green Eldrazi: 22-11-2
Bant Aggro: 51-27-6 - U/W/g Midrange: 47-24-1 - Bant: 4-3-0
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x World Breaker
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells(20)
4x Explosive Vegetation
4x Nissa's Pilgrimage
4x Ruin in their Wake
2x Chandra, Flamecaller
2x Kozilek's Return
2x Oath of Nissa
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
9x Forest
4x Evolving Wilds
4x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4x Wastes
3x Sanctum of Ugin
2x Mountain
4x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Crumble to Dust
2x From Beyond
2x Kozilek's Return
2x Roast
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Void Winnower
1x Warping Wail
Changes from my initial list:
-Added the 4th Advocate. Card is bonkers. Basically Tarmogoyf in this deck.
-Cut Kozilek. Didn't want three 10 drops in the deck and Ula is better.
-Cut 2 Return. Too many X/3's in the format, plus I got some new board wipes in...
-Added 2 Chandra. I don't have much experience with her yet but having a six mana card to ramp into is nice and she provides nice pressure, filtering, and the stabilization.
And then in the SB
-Cut Desolation Twin because he was only in there for his devilish good looks.
-Added the 2 Kozi Return for Atarka Red and other weenie decks
-Cut some other chaff like Winds.
-Added a Warping Wail because idk it is less chaffy then Winds? It's still the uncertain spot in the SB.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Glad you found the actual source. I thought what I heard was you wanted 8 wastes and 4 evolving wilds. This article specifically even states 4 Evolving + 4 Wastes will allow it by turn 2 around 70% of the time. Evolving Wilds drawback of tapped land can affect the probability slightly, but not by much.
And you're right, Oath of Nissa does help. I know I've done it a few games with an early Oath in hopes of hitting a wastes. It helps slightly - sometimes have to settle with Evolving Wilds to grab from Oath to play on T2 otherwise and delay the ramp slightly. But after then Ruin is always on as another +1 ramper. 2 CMC helps a lot with getting under the counterspells and casting multiple spells a turn as well.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
1x Conduit of Ruin
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Oblivion Sower
3x Sylvan Advocate
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x World Breaker
Sorcery Spells(11)
4x Explosive Vegetation
4x Ruin in their Wake
2x Sylvan Scrying
1x Planar Outburst
2x Immolating Glare
3x Warping Wail
Planeswalkers (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifact (3)
3x Hedron Archive
Land (25)
3x Evolving Wilds
9x Forest
2x Plains
3x Sanctum of Ugin
2x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
6x Wastes
3x Bane of Bala Ged
1x Conduit of Ruin
2x Eldrazi Obligator
1x Gaea's Revenge
2x Hallowed Moonlight
3x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Mountain
1x Void Winnower
I'm only confused what to play for sideboard, the 3 Bane of Bala Ged is merely placeholders at the time being. Eldrazi Obligator and Void Winnower are my Mirror Tech. So far I've yet to have a chance to playtest against mirror decks thus I'm not really sure how far this can go.
Main Deck Planar Outburst and Quarantine Field has manage to pull off well before. Immolating Glare is to replace Stasis Snare as it's harder to cast.
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
I find in GW versions with Immolating Glare wanting to be able to be cast T2-T3 and Planar Outbursts needing double white, the Ruin in the Wake versions are tough to support consistently. Hell I moved to a version of 6 fetches and 2 Canopy Vistas to help with it.
I think if you're playing GW it's a crime not to run Dragonlord Dromoka. Uncounterable, lifelink, and forces opponents to play at sorcery speed against us is awesome.
As to the sideboard, for the aggro decks I highly recommend 3-4 Arashin Cleric and getting up to 3 Planar Outbursts in the 75 as well as 2-3 Ugins in the 75. With Arashin Cleric though you again have to consider your manabase - getting him out turn 2 reliably can be rough with the Ruin in Wake versions. Maybe another Immolating Glare as well in the SB. Thought-Knot Seers are great vs the Midrange and Control decks. Not a fan of the Obligator tech since it's so narrow and requires taking up 4 sideboard slots with two of them being lands. Against the mirror the best cards I like are Conduits, Sowers, Void Winnower, and Warping Wail. You already have 2 sowers in the main, so that's more than enough - I don't like more than 1 of them personally.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
You're right on the Obligator, I've tested it again today and to be honest, it's really pointless. I'll swap it out for other stuff. I only have 1 Ugin, 1 Ulamog and 1 Kozilek, looking to aquire 1 more Ulamog but not any more ugin. For now I'll be looking to add in another Immolating Glare in the Sideboard. Thou how many T-K Seer should I play? A full playset?
1x Conduit of Ruin
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Oblivion Sower
3x Sylvan Advocate
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x World Breaker
Sorcery (11)
4x Explosive Vegetation
1x Planar Outburst
4x Ruin in Their Wake
2x Sylvan Scrying
Artifact (3)
3x Hedron Archive
3x Evolving Wilds
9x Forest
2x Plains
3x Sanctum of Ugin
2x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
6x Wastes
Instant (5)
2x Immolating Glare
3x Warping Wail
Enchantment (3)
1x Quarantine Field
2x Silkwrap
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Conduit of Ruin
1x Gaea's Revenge
2x Hallowed Moonlight
1x Immolating Glare
3x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Planar Outburst
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Void Winnower
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
Many lists with 4 Ev and 4 wastes
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-gr-eldrazi-ramp-23939#online
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/magic-math-oath-of-the-gatewatch/
He specifically clarifies 4 Evolving Wilds and 4 Wastes is fine. My bad on glossing over that part.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Splashes:
White - better removal, sweepers, and life gain options.
Red - Chandra is a scary threat. K-return is great against Atarka Red and comes down early at instant speed there (K-return has been underwhelming vs many other decks of 3+ toughness creatures)
Blue - Not too familiar with how this one plays out. Looking at recent 5-0 finishes like http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/368774 I think it can be tuned better. With access to Lumbering Falls, you should certainly be playing 4x Sylvan Advocate. With that list I would start with replacing 4x Hangarback with 4x Advocate. GU typically runs 3-4 Whisperwood Elemental as well as 4 Drowner of Hope. It looks like it would do well in the mirror with the SB having Disdainful Strokes and Negates (also great vs the hate against ramp).
Black - Never heard of this for a controlling ramp shell. Bx Eldrazi Aggro is a real thing though.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
The mana base I put together seems good on paper.
14 T1 green sources to enable Oath on T1, 10 forest, 4 foothills (to get red later for return and chandra)
4 evolving wilds and at least 5 wastes (6 for 26 lands)
2 mtns
I mean the whole reason to run this version is to enable ruin, if you dont get it then its not superior so I am not interested in shrines and sanctums.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
So here's what I'm going to try out tomorrow night at the local FNM
4 hangarback walker
3 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
3 Jaddi Offshoot
2 world breaker
Planeswalkers
3 Ugin, the spirit dragon
1 Chandra, Firecaller
Spells and Artifacts
4 explosive vegetation
4 ruin in their wake
3 radiant flames
2 Nissa's pilgrimage
2 Hedron archive
2 sylvan scrying
1 Nissa's renewal
8 Forest
3 Wastes
2 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Evolving Wilds
3 shrine of the forsaken gods
3 sanctum of ugin
1 blighted woodland
1 haven of the spirit dragon
1 sea gate wreckage
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Jaddi Offshoot
1 void winnower
1 oblivion sower
2 world breaker
2 spatial contortion
2 hallowed moonlight
2 rending volley
2 warping wail
And the obligatory I've had lousy experiences with Hangarbacks - Sylvan Advocates have performed much better in my testing (and others).
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I was paired against 2 Atarka decks and while I beat 1 lost to the other. My other win was a bye
Observations:
Chandra may be the extra sweeper the deck needs, and can offer a form of card draw. The atarka match up doesn't seem as bad anymore, Kozilek's return helps a ton here, both games were close 2-1 W and a 1-2 Loss (stablize at 1 life in one game and have 20 power on the table and he rips a burn spell off the top!
Not finding enough threats, here's where Oath of Nissa helped after testing. Not only did the card smooth out the curve, it also gave the deck much, and I mean much needed card selection. (all this after the standard event)
Ramp Curve:
CMC 1 4 Oath of Nissa
CMC 2 4 Ruin in their Wake
CMC 3 3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
CMC 4 4 Explosive Vegetation
I didn't have any problems turning on Ruin in their Wake last night, I guess in that regard I drew well had an excellent percentage with the card taking me to 3 mana on T3. With Nissa's I saw some iffy hands become keepable after testing and late game it just finds you something to trigger your sanctums with.
Note on Thought-Knot Seer, great in matches where you want to pressure your opponent, but not great in when behind. Still the 4 of in m SB did a lot of work, even against atarka red.
Titan's Presence works, yes it's like really good. it's a 4 of in my Sb and helped in every match. I would say I want it mb but I view the deck as a combo deck, hence G1 I just go all in.
Conduit of Ruin breaks the mirror, I see why some lists run 3x of it.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Yeah I'm trying to figure that out and I think you're right about the advocates. I'm gonna cut the sea gate wreckage too(I just like the card a lot but you're right Chandra and Hedron get me out of those spots for easier mana) but keep the haven in without playing Atarka. I like to be able to get an Ugin back if I need to have that out. There are 4 world breakers total. Just decided to break up the way I play them because I wanted radiant flames to deal with what I think will be an Aggro field this coming weekend.
VERY successful list prior to Oath:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/368774#online
your welcome
Gang, if you have chandra in your deck and the game goes long start thinking about saving lands/ramp spells in hand for Chandras card draw ability.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Agreed.
4 Sylvan Advocate
1 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Oblivion Sower
3 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Ruin in Their Wake
3 Kozilek's Return
2 Hedron Archive
3 Explosive Vegetation
2 Warping Wail
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
7 Forest
2 Mountains
4 Wastes
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
I am not sure how I feel about it yet, it feels like it ramps kinda slow (obviously I am ramp lite) I feel like I am normally just one turn ahead on mana and I am not sure if that is enough. Mind you, I am used to my mono green deck which had to have more ramp. I feel like I can make it to mid/late game now with the board wipe I have available. Obviously I want the 4th World Breaker and I would get rid of the conduits and one sower for a playset of Thought-Knot Seers if I could. The only other issues I feel is that I am having a hard time getting to my Ulamog It probably isn't an issue since I get my other threats like World Breaker and my planes walkers. Again, I am just used to turn 6/7 Ulamog from my mono green because I had more tutor and more ramp. What do you think?
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
I've tuned my RG Ramp deck quite a bit and found a solid place now (though if you have Ugins still, run those in place of a Chandra or maybe 2 Ugins in the 75 somehow):
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rg-ramp-post-rotation-3/
Try that as a base if you're having issues with ramping. Runs 4 Ruin in Their Wake, 3 Pilgrimmage, 3 Vegetation, 2 Hedron, 1 Renewal.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots