Monday Night Magic is a small 3 round tournament at my LGS, so not too many games to report on here.
Round 1: vs Abzan Aggro (1-2)
Played vs a friend of mine at the store. The past few weeks we both have gone 2-0 and then faced each other in the final round. I feel like this still is a bad matchup for Ramp decks - especially vs Abzan Aggro ones that mainboard some amount of Duress and Transgress.
Game 1
He duresses away a ramp spell early on but doesn't have enough pressure behind it. World Breaker at 7 mana exiling his Shambling Vents, sacced the Sanctum to get Oblivion Sower and played that out next turn to bridge the gap to 10 (had Ulamog in hand) while still getting another threat on the table. After landing Ulamog to exile the Rhino and Anafenza, he didn't draw into an answer and conceded on the Ulamog swing.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in 2 Roasts and cut 2 Hangarback (probably wrong as the cut, but I just don't like the feel of Hangarbacks)
Game 2
He duresses and transgresses my ramp spells early on and I just waddle around doing nothing other than play 2 Sylvan Advocates that both get killed by Abzan Charm and Murderous Cut. He ends up with a board of Warden, Sylvan Advocate, Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate + token. I lose shortly after.
Game 3
Plays out similarly to game 2. Not much to say.
THOUGHTS: Early disruption + pressure is how you beat ramp and we do not have good answers for Abzan Aggro's threats. At least most of them rotate out this April (Warden, Anafenza, Rhino, and Wingmate Roc). I also never drew the roasts I brought in though I don't think they would have helped enough.
------------ Round 2: vs Boros Allies (2-0)
My opponent was a newer player with his own brew so I didn't expect much here.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground and is followed up Chandra wiping the board and then chaining World Breakers to close it out.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in all 4 K-returns and took out 2 Ulamogs, 1 Kozilek, and 1 Oblivion Sower.
Game 2
Kozilek's Return wrecks his board as a 3 for 1 and then World Breaker chaining gets there again.
THOUGHTS: Decks full of 2 or less toughness creatures are when Kozilek's Return really shines for obvious reasons. It's also especially good vs decks that want to first main-phase their threats like Allies so you can get even more value before taking damage from combat.
----------- Round 3: vs Abzan Blue (2-0)
This was an unusual mash up between Abzan Aggro cards and grinding out with Sidisi Tyrant, Deathmist Raptor, Den Protector, and Eldrazi Displacer.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground while I ramp up uninterrupted and land an early Chandra to clear his board. Then the World Breaker chaining begins and he scoops.
SIDEBOARDING: Bring in 2 Roasts and a Conduit and take out 3 Hangarbacks.
Game 2
I get double Ruin in the Wake for full value early on and accelerate into Chandra again which clears the board. He gets stuck on 3 lands while I World Breaker chain to eat them alive and he scoops with 1 land remaining.
THOUGHTS: My opponent's deck was less aggressively focused than most Abzan Aggro variants and that combined with him not disrupting me made these games trivially easy to win.
----- Overall thoughts
So 1-2, 2-0, 2-0 for the night - was happy enough with the results. Oath of Nissa is my pet card in this deck - I just love the help with consistency and its versatility in this deck. However, I never liked Hangarback in any of the games, so he now is definitely being cut. I'll test Matter Reshaper first in his spot. I'm still not sure on Warping Wail being worth the slots in the 75. I am so looking forward to Anafenza, Rhino and Wingmate rotating out (as well as Temur Battlerage, Become Immense, and all delve spells for that matter)! Hoping SOI brings us some new toys!
Monday Night Magic is a small 3 round tournament at my LGS, so not too many games to report on here.
Round 1: vs Abzan Aggro (1-2)
Played vs a friend of mine at the store. The past few weeks we both have gone 2-0 and then faced each other in the final round. I feel like this still is a bad matchup for Ramp decks - especially vs Abzan Aggro ones that mainboard some amount of Duress and Transgress.
Game 1
He duresses away a ramp spell early on but doesn't have enough pressure behind it. World Breaker at 7 mana exiling his Shambling Vents, sacced the Sanctum to get Oblivion Sower and played that out next turn to bridge the gap to 10 (had Ulamog in hand) while still getting another threat on the table. After landing Ulamog to exile the Rhino and Anafenza, he didn't draw into an answer and conceded on the Ulamog swing.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in 2 Roasts and cut 2 Hangarback (probably wrong as the cut, but I just don't like the feel of Hangarbacks)
Game 2
He duresses and transgresses my ramp spells early on and I just waddle around doing nothing other than play 2 Sylvan Advocates that both get killed by Abzan Charm and Murderous Cut. He ends up with a board of Warden, Sylvan Advocate, Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate + token. I lose shortly after.
Game 3
Plays out similarly to game 2. Not much to say.
THOUGHTS: Early disruption + pressure is how you beat ramp and we do not have good answers for Abzan Aggro's threats. At least most of them rotate out this April (Warden, Anafenza, Rhino, and Wingmate Roc). I also never drew the roasts I brought in though I don't think they would have helped enough.
------------ Round 2: vs Boros Allies (2-0)
My opponent was a newer player with his own brew so I didn't expect much here.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground and is followed up Chandra wiping the board and then chaining World Breakers to close it out.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in all 4 K-returns and took out 2 Ulamogs, 1 Kozilek, and 1 Oblivion Sower.
Game 2
Kozilek's Return wrecks his board as a 3 for 1 and then World Breaker chaining gets there again.
THOUGHTS: Decks full of 2 or less toughness creatures are when Kozilek's Return really shines for obvious reasons. It's also especially good vs decks that want to first main-phase their threats like Allies so you can get even more value before taking damage from combat.
----------- Round 3: vs Abzan Blue (2-0)
This was an unusual mash up between Abzan Aggro cards and grinding out with Sidisi Tyrant, Deathmist Raptor, Den Protector, and Eldrazi Displacer.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground while I ramp up uninterrupted and land an early Chandra to clear his board. Then the World Breaker chaining begins and he scoops.
SIDEBOARDING: Bring in 2 Roasts and a Conduit and take out 3 Hangarbacks.
Game 2
I get double Ruin in the Wake for full value early on and accelerate into Chandra again which clears the board. He gets stuck on 3 lands while I World Breaker chain to eat them alive and he scoops with 1 land remaining.
THOUGHTS: My opponent's deck was less aggressively focused than most Abzan Aggro variants and that combined with him not disrupting me made these games trivially easy to win.
----- Overall thoughts
So 1-2, 2-0, 2-0 for the night - was happy enough with the results. Oath of Nissa is my pet card in this deck - I just love the help with consistency and its versatility in this deck. However, I never liked Hangarback in any of the games, so he now is definitely being cut. I'll test Matter Reshaper first in his spot. I'm still not sure on Warping Wail being worth the slots in the 75. I am so looking forward to Anafenza, Rhino and Wingmate rotating out (as well as Temur Battlerage, Become Immense, and all delve spells for that matter)! Hoping SOI brings us some new toys!
I know you are playing post rotation which is still far away , but losing Ugin makes the deck really bad against current abzan aggro.
I agree, Ugin definitely makes the matchup significantly better. I don't think we'll be getting a planeswalker on that power level this upcoming set.
A big reason I'm playing this weird build is because I am simultaneously selling off my Tron deck. Ugin is not so hot in modern anymore (vs Affinity, Burn, Infect, Colorless Eldrazi, Zoo, etc he's either worthless or too slow and that's the meta as of late), so after rotation I don't see him as a highly desired commodity and so I sold him recently before rotation comes. Haven't been playing standard in a long time primarily because of the rotations, but just started up standard again this past month. Eldrazi Ramp was similar enough to my BW Eldrazi and RG Tron builds and contained some of the same pieces that it was easy enough to build into and learn to play as well so it naturally fit the bill. Also liking that not much of the deck other than Ugin rotates out.
Something I've been thinking about - vs the decks where the average toughness of creatures is 3 or more, like Rally and Eldrazi aggro variants, do you keep K-return in just for the return clause? Those are the types of matchups where I'm never sure on K-return being good enough. We still want a way to clear the board, but having a card where even if I draw it, I need to both pitch it to the grave and then cast a 7+ colorless to enable an actual clear is a tough sell.
Hey all, sleeving this deck up again for a PPTQ this weekend but I have not played standard much over the past few months. I see this thread doesn't have a match-up guide, is there anywhere I can get a crash course on playing this deck in the current general meta?...or at least some general things to look out for during certain m/u's? I played this deck for an SCG Open a few months back before Oath came out so I'm not completely new to it. I don't have a list yet but it will look a lot like Effort9's post rotation build with Ugin's added to the main, probably a 2/2 split with Ugin and Chandra, and also taking out Hangarback Walkers for K.Return or Matter Reshaper.
Yes, or going first, I've cast 3rd turn hedron and countered their spell off of the hedron. I have seen people start playing a lot more Kloghan's Command lately which may make me cut a hedron for the 4th Vegetation.
ACK! Wizards is making this hard! Hedron or vegetation. I myself am thinking about a 4 of Warping wail and didnt think about being able top have 2 up for wail, sick!
Hey all, sleeving this deck up again for a PPTQ this weekend but I have not played standard much over the past few months. I see this thread doesn't have a match-up guide, is there anywhere I can get a crash course on playing this deck in the current general meta?...or at least some general things to look out for during certain m/u's? I played this deck for an SCG Open a few months back before Oath came out so I'm not completely new to it. I don't have a list yet but it will look a lot like Effort9's post rotation build with Ugin's added to the main, probably a 2/2 split with Ugin and Chandra, and also taking out Hangarback Walkers for K.Return or Matter Reshaper.
Hooray someone likes my weird monstrosity!
As for a quick guide to this deck - barring foreseeable death, you stick with your game plan of maximizing the amount of mana you can have on each turn in the game and then playing out the fatties. Against decks that can threaten lethal quickly like the Prowess and Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage decks, bar on the side of throwing down some defense and removing their creatures. Like if you have T3 and can play K-return or Pilgrimmage against them, if they have Prowess guys main-phase your K-return, if they don't, pass and wait for them to go to combat (unless you suspect they are playing Stubborn Denial and the likes). You can pilgrimmage later when it's safer. #1 priority of course is make sure you do not die. #2 priority is to get as much mana as possible. In most games you will be not be under enough pressure to stray from your main game plan.
As for some matchup advice: vs Rally: You want to destroy their white sources to slow them down from being able to play Rally. Even though they'll sac Nantuko in response, if you have an opportunity to target him and there aren't white lands out to hit instead, do it just to force them to get Nantuko off the board at least. A common line I like to take is World Breaker hitting a white source, sac Sanctum to get Oblivion Sower. Then run out the Sower and hope to hit some good ones (Rally, Nantuko, Reflector Mage, more white sources or white enablers are the best). Sower often will help bridge the gap to get to Ulamog as well. Same idea with Ulamog - prioritize hitting white sources and Nantuko if there isn't 2 white sources to hit.
vs Prowess: Don't hold off on killing their creatures for too long. They don't play that many creatures, so if your K-return or Chandra is just a 1-for-1 still do it. I've taken 16-18 in a single turn from Prowess ridiculous lines (Slip draw, Titan's Strength scry to top, Expedite draw the card, Become Immense / Temur Battle Rage). If you're familiar with the matchup against Infect in modern, that's how you play it here. Play the kill spells on your turn in almost every case. They at least will have to waste a prowess trigger to save it if they even can. Spatial Contortions and Titan's Presences do well here so you have some instant speed interaction just in case. With Titan's Presence you can wait for them to attack, don't block, and see if they churn out some spells then blow the prowess critter out. However, it's risky due to Stubborn Denial often being in their MB or at least SB.
vs Atarka Red / small Aggro critters: Here you can hold off on killing their creatures in many cases as long as they don't have a Swiftspear. Let them in for a few points a turn, then 3 for 1 them. Otherwise play it similarly as you do vs Prowess.
vs Control: Here is where playing 4x Sylvan Advocate in the main pays off a lot. Getting under them to force them to waste kill spells on the Advocate while they also need to hold up counters for your ramps is tough for them. Ruin in the Wake package also is very good here for similar reasons - Explosive Vegetation is noticeably weaker since paying 4 just to get it Negated is awful. Hedron Archives tend to not get countered as much, and have better late game presence from being able to cash them in which is great for grindier matches. I like landing Kozilek over Ulamog better in this matchup many times - their counters and kill spells often are 2-4 CMC so excess Ruins, Advocates, Pilgrimmages, Vegetations, and Archives are great Kozilek fodder for discarding to counter their spells. World Breaker chaining as usual is excellent in not letting them play as many spells per turn - prioritize hitting the charge lands like Mage-Ring, otherwise try to get them off double blue whenever possible.
vs Midrange: Just do your usual gameplan and you'll win more often than not. This deck preys on midrange decks.
Mirror Match: Mana denial is excellent of course, so Warping Wail definitely comes in. World Breaker chaining and Oblivion Sowers are excellent as well. Anything to help ramp or discount your spells more is fantastic, so bring in the Conduits. Sylvan Advocate still is great for a little beater to apply pressure and force their hand. Once he gets to a 4/5 (usually by T3 or 4) he presents a very fast clock. He's like a little Siege Rhino in the mirror. I have conflicting thoughts on how to play out Ulamog in the mirror. When they get to 10+ mana exiling lands doesn't really matter and their creatures often do not matter that much either - you'll have a staring contest between all your ground beaters. The best play with Ulamog is to wait for the opponent to drop their Ulamog first. The only way this deck deals with Ulamog is by exiling it themselves - with your own Ulamog! The 2nd to play Ulamog can often win it. Kozilek again is fantastic in this grindy mirror match. Oh and Void Winnower. Get that out as soon as possible (another reason I love Conduit - fetches Void and makes it only cost 7 mana to cast the next turn.
vs Bigger Aggro decks - Abzan Aggro, Eldrazi Aggro: This is tough. Your K-returns are inefficient as you need to spend mana to pitch one to the grave early, and then need to get to 7 mana and Worldbreaker to be able to clear their board. Chandra is great vs both, Ugin is best vs Abzan Aggro and near worthless vs Eldrazi Aggro (colorless hooray, I'll bolt your 4/4...). Bring in the Roasties here and additional Ugins if you're packing them.
played tested this weekend, and while having bad results testing different builds, I crushed rally. That match up felt easy when you curve out to world breaker and eat their W sources early enough. Thought-Knot Seer is actually great in this match up, getting rid of a company or even a key part of their engine helps the ramp deck keep it's goal intact.
So, after much testing I think Ruin in their Wake is worth it. It's too good and when it does work and manage to so Ruin into Explosive Veggies you are so far ahead that opponents literally start dumping their hand to get you to 0 asap. If you pop off a Return during these turns they'll try and reserve a threat in hand but World Breaker is hard to deal with. The must have a removal spell for him and then rebuild. I tried advocate, jaddi, hangarback and every deck I went up against was so low to the ground it didn't matter. Plus I view ramp as a combo deck, you do your thing and go over the top with an incredible late game. My deck is all in on ramp and have set it up to have great game against the established meta (currently there is a ton of brewing still going on due to the PT, most pros haven't had enough time to solve both formats, so it's up to us to do the best we can).
I'm going to test more this week and get the numbers right. The SB is updated to include spot removal for aggressive decks and it might be right to cut the 3rd Ugin for the 4th return. I still think Ugin is a house and despite coloress decks starting to pop up, my version tries to take some themes from Tron, go all in and rely on your heavy hitters to due the work. Most decks cannot beat Ugin unless they are coloress.
I'll post more this week but this version of my deck had decent game against mirror, Esper dragons, Dark Jeskai, Abzan (even abzan blue), Abzan Company, U/R Promess (stomped it), and rally.
What it's meh against Mono red is still about having Kozilek's Return when it matters. If you have and can trigger both end of it you win. Seriously, I haven't lost when I've done that. I've lost because I bricked on drawing it. Any midrange/Aggro Devoid is rough, I haven't had enough test matches with my finalized version but ingest and or smasher into thought-knot decks that curve out with disruption is this decks Achilles heel. It's not impossible to win if you get to Breaker and wipe the board but it's why I added in Titan's Presence to my SB.
Lastly, Abzan is still a dominant and huge chunk of the meta. Chandra doesn't do anything to Siege Rhino and friends. Don't skimp on Ugin, it's the reason why Abzan "had" to include U. Their match up was horrendous.
I am running 3 ugin main 1 in board, and 2 chandra main 1 in board. Being able to sweep has been the difference between stabilizing and not.I think the 1st chandra is better than the 4th kozileks return.
The lack of a tonne of devoid decks at least in my local meta means being firstly a ramp ugin deck like last season is good place to start.
I am still on the crumble to dust plan which has been working well against a majority of the field, so many greedy mana based.
To make room for chandras I have cut down to 2 oblivion sowers I have not been running conduit of ruin but am going to try 1 and just 1 sower
How have you been finding Kozilek? I have found him to be pretty average in the main, not enough control around at the moment.
Yea, never wanted Kozilek, always wanted another card.
I used to not like Kozilek, but my build back then just was not tuned well for him - the ramp was nowhere near as explosive as my later iterations of the build. I really like him a lot now. I just have to always remember his Discard ability and not waste unnecessary 2-4 CMC spells so we can counter most of the "answers" to our big threats. It's also very useful against control decks packing Infinite Obliterations - casting a Kozilek when you don't have Ulamogs or World Breakers any more is a massive swing in your favor. With that said, he definitely is best against grindier decks, so I can see him being moved to the SB at the least.
Noteable differences in the MB: 1 Endless One, 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 4 Spatial Contortion.
Noteable differences in the SB: 2 Cranial Archives (awful graveyard tech, but I guess it's the best we have right now - should get better in SOI with Madness mechanic coming back)
The mana base looks very greedy though. It forgoes trying to fit Chandra in there for good reason. No Oaths, and only 1 mountain. Still pretty low on basic Forests - which is always an issue with the Ruin in the Wakes versions and why I decided to make cuts to a couple Shrines for that. I've been considering a 3/3 split of Sanctum and Shrine instead of the 4/2 split I have now (Sanctum too good). Shrine hasn't been as relevant lately when World Breaker is what I want to do the most often so getting to 8+ mana isn't as relevant. I think I'll stick with the 4/2 split to help with mana consistency issues.
Regarding the Spatial Contortions, that reminds me, I've been looking for cards to fill the gap with cutting the Hangarbacks. Matter Reshaper I only did a little testing with and though I often would net a card from it (unless it gets exiled), I didn't like it that much. I've been trying 3x Spatial Contortion instead and liking that a lot more. So my build right now is the same as listed before just -3 Hangarback +3 Spatial Contortion.
Just played a first matchup against Devoid Aggro. I think that MU might be even worse than Atarka Red. I think the only saving grace in that MU is Chandra, and sometimes the instant speed or recurring Kozilek's Return.
For those who play this deck with a splash of white (if there are those still out there) I was wondering if Wall of Resurgence wouldn't be worth a look for the aggro matchups. Two blocks, and one with a toughness of 6 seems pretty good in most aggro MU.
Hey guys, I am new to the thread but I love green ramp. I will post my deck with my thoughts and questions later for you guys to critique/help make better. I do have a couple of questions though.
First, I see a lot of you using 2 of Hedron Archive. I was going to put those in my deck but I opted for From Beyond instead since I felt like one of the issues I was having was getting my Eldrazi when I wanted/needed them and From Beyond helps tutor. I do run the 4 of Sanctum of Ugin and 2 Conduit of Ruin for tutor purposes. What do you guys think, why Hedron over From Beyond? Is the constant 2 mana that much better?
Second Question. Oath of Nissa. I love this card, I main deck it in my Modern GWave/Green Devotion deck. I am torn on putting it in this deck though, I am afraid that I have so many ramp spells that I will, at least on occasion, miss with it. Is that accurate or are you guys finding that it works pretty smooth?
Private Mod Note
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
If we go back to splashing White, I think we have to reconfigure our mana bases and ramp spells. For instance, I think we would need to go back to fetches and drop the Ruin in the Wakes package to make sure we can support our essentially 4 color deck (we need <> producing as well for Kozi / Thought-Knot Seer / Matter Reshaper). If we go back to white, we also have access to Hallowed Moonlight again which is an all star vs Rally and Co-Co decks.
I don't think the wall would be what we want for a few reasons. 1) White is our splash - we would want white by turn 3 against the aggro decks and with only 1 plains in the deck, that will be nowhere near consistent. 2) The Wall isn't much better than a Jaddi Offshoot, it doesn't deter them from attacking at all. 3) The additional creature is a land-creature which leaves us very prone to going down a land, and if we are going 4-colors we can easily get mana screwed with this.
First, I see a lot of you using 2 of Hedron Archive. I was going to put those in my deck but I opted for From Beyond instead since I felt like one of the issues I was having was getting my Eldrazi when I wanted/needed them and From Beyond helps tutor. I do run the 4 of Sanctum of Ugin and 2 Conduit of Ruin for tutor purposes. What do you guys think, why Hedron over From Beyond? Is the constant 2 mana that much better?
Second Question. Oath of Nissa. I love this card, I main deck it in my Modern GWave/Green Devotion deck. I am torn on putting it in this deck though, I am afraid that I have so many ramp spells that I will, at least on occasion, miss with it. Is that accurate or are you guys finding that it works pretty smooth?
Hedron ramps you faster than from beyond by at least 2 turns.
I think please who run oaths also run Chandra, makes things a lot easier.
There is only so much space.
There are many different types of build: land based ramp, creature based ramp (Oath is more attractive here), wastes with ruin in their wake (that also might run warping wail and hedrons) and builds with thought knot and matter reshapers without as much ramp.
Hey guys, I am new to the thread but I love green ramp. I will post my deck with my thoughts and questions later for you guys to critique/help make better. I do have a couple of questions though.
First, I see a lot of you using 2 of Hedron Archive. I was going to put those in my deck but I opted for From Beyond instead since I felt like one of the issues I was having was getting my Eldrazi when I wanted/needed them and From Beyond helps tutor. I do run the 4 of Sanctum of Ugin and 2 Conduit of Ruin for tutor purposes. What do you guys think, why Hedron over From Beyond? Is the constant 2 mana that much better?
Second Question. Oath of Nissa. I love this card, I main deck it in my Modern GWave/Green Devotion deck. I am torn on putting it in this deck though, I am afraid that I have so many ramp spells that I will, at least on occasion, miss with it. Is that accurate or are you guys finding that it works pretty smooth?
About Oath of Nissa, I started off playing the card very poorly. It's one that you should not just cast when you have open mana to do so. Common situations to cast it:
1) You mulliganed and/or are light on land drops early on. You Oath of Nissa in the first couple of turns to make sure you hit a land drop so you can cast your ramp spells.
2) You've ramped to 6+ mana and are ready to just be dropping World Breakers, Chandras, and Ugins and don't care as much about ramping - Oath for the threats.
3) You have plenty of mana but need a specific threat in your hand - this digs a few deep to try to get it quicker.
Yes, sometimes you will completely blank on it. I would say it's about the same likelihood as blanking on a CoCo cast in a deck meant to support CoCo. It happens sometimes, but it'll work out in your favor the vast majority of the time.
Always think about what you need and why before you cast it. If you really need threats, also increase the likelihood of finding them by proper sequencing - play your ramp spells first and Oath last if you're not going to have the mana to cast the threat yet anyways - this will reduce the likelihood of hitting some lands that you've now taken out of the deck.
If we go back to splashing White, I think we have to reconfigure our mana bases and ramp spells. For instance, I think we would need to go back to fetches and drop the Ruin in the Wakes package to make sure we can support our essentially 4 color deck (we need <> producing as well for Kozi / Thought-Knot Seer / Matter Reshaper). If we go back to white, we also have access to Hallowed Moonlight again which is an all star vs Rally and Co-Co decks.
I don't think the wall would be what we want for a few reasons. 1) White is our splash - we would want white by turn 3 against the aggro decks and with only 1 plains in the deck, that will be nowhere near consistent. 2) The Wall isn't much better than a Jaddi Offshoot, it doesn't deter them from attacking at all. 3) The additional creature is a land-creature which leaves us very prone to going down a land, and if we are going 4-colors we can easily get mana screwed with this.
Actually, just thought of something. Might be too cute, but might actually be good. Here's how Wall of Resurgence can work out favorably in the deck: make the deck GW instead of GR. Use Planar Outburst for the sweeper - which will not kill your animated lands from the Wall. Additionally, Sylvan Advocate will buff your animated lands, making the Wall of Resurgence animated land a 5/5 instead of a 3/3. Still has the same risks of going down a land, but at least far less likely since it avoids more removal spells with 5 toughness. Could also present a faster clock against slower decks. Might be worth testing a GW shell to see how it fares - I'm sure what Red can provide White can as well.
Thoughts on this deck? Been working on it for a while and decided to move away from MB Kozilek's Return to give me some more punch in game 1. Cut down a bit on the ramp package as well but im not sure if thats correct.
Sideboard is almost certainly incorrect, im pretty poor at building sideboards. Mostly trying to shore up the aggro match while adding a couple cards against midrange and control (Roast, Ugin + Warping Wail)
Thoughts on this deck? Been working on it for a while and decided to move away from MB Kozilek's Return to give me some more punch in game 1. Cut down a bit on the ramp package as well but im not sure if thats correct.
Sideboard is almost certainly incorrect, im pretty poor at building sideboards. Mostly trying to shore up the aggro match while adding a couple cards against midrange and control (Roast, Ugin + Warping Wail)
Yeah, I would cut back on the Sowers to 1-2 at most and put in at least 3 Pilgrimmage. Maybe cut a single Thought-Knot or Ulamog to free up the slot as well. Your sideboard should have more On Cast creatures to deal with control.
WG actually sounds like it has some merit. Wall of Resurgence + Sylvan Advocate should be fun. Planar Outburst sweeping hits everything we want. Dragonlord Dromoka cannot be countered and gives us Lifelink and forces decks to act sorcery speed against us.
Is the 3 mana ramp that important? Or is it just to make sure we hit critical mass?
if you dont draw a ruin then you arent ramping until t4 that is not where you want to be. I run 4 ruin 4 pilgrimage 3 explosive.
Pilgrimage always feels horrible though. If I am not on turn 3 explosive into turn 4 threat, I just feel like the deck's gameplan has failed.
The more I test, the more I feel like 4 Ruin in their Wake and 3/4 Warping Wail is correct. Warping Wail also has the upside of being able to be held back on turn 2 so that you can protect against a possible turn 2 Duress or Transgress the Mind. Then, if they don't cast that, you can get the Scion and cast a turn 3 Explosive(or a turn 3 Thought-Knot Seer if you don't get Explosive)
That allows you to either put a threat down that they need to deal with, or it allows you to threaten a turn 4 Chandra/World Breaker/Ugin.
Jaddi Offshoot is there for life gain and to hedge against the smaller aggro decks. It does a surprising amount of work in a lot of matchups simply for the life gain. Thought-Knot Seer gives this deck a threat that disrupts the opponent's gameplan somewhat, while also taking them off the plan of either killing us or disrupting us long enough World Breaker goes from huge bomb to just a strong creature that can be dealt with. In the games where you don't draw your ramp, or you do draw the ramp but don't draw your threats, this is at least able to do something that you care about. Reality Smasher. Fills a similar role as Thought-Knot, but in a slightly different way. Can end the game by itself in the right circumstances, and has to be dealt with. Also, can block almost anything if you need it to. Oblivion Sower. Following up a World Breaker with an Oblivion Sower is really strong, and will get you to 10 mana in most cases, which them opens you to Ulamog/Kozilek. World Breaker. The reason to play the deck to begin with. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Not sure why I see a bunch of lists running 3 or 4 of this guy. 1 should end the game. I don't really want to draw it until I am ready to cast it, which takes time. Even if they deal with it, it does so much on cast that the game should basically be over at that point. Kozilek, the Great Distortion. Same as Ulamog, but in a slightly different way. Drawing back up to 7 is insane.
Chandra, Flamecaller. Anyone not running this card in multiples is wrong. Casting it on turn 4, sometimes you can just win the game before they get an answer to it. Other times, you just want to draw gas, and man does she draw you into gas in a hurry. Oh, and she is a board wipe. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. I'm less hot on him than a lot of other people. Great as a board wipe, great as a terrifying threat, but does less to win the game than I really want him to a lot of the time. His biggest asset is that people basically drop everything else to kill him immediately.
Ruin in their Wake. 100% what I want to be casting on turn 2(with a Wastes in play, naturally). Warping Wail. A good alternative to Ruin in their Wake. Plus, can help to protect the gameplan if I don't get a strong draw. Explosive Vegetation. Best turn 3 play in the deck. Getting to 6 mana by turn 4 is insane. Getting to 7 or 8 mana by turn 4 is basically unbeatable if you have anything to do with the mana.
Oath of Nissa. Smooths a lot of draws, isn't a terrible late game draw and make a muligan feel less miserable. Given how much this deck wants to make sure it hits the right lands at the start of the game, and how much it wants to get past that stuff into threats at the end of the game, this card does everything you want. Again, people not running 4 of this card are probably wrong.
Now, about the things I'm not playing: Kozilek's Return. Man, it hurt to cut this card from the mainboard. Unfortunately, my game 1 plan is not to be casting this card, if there is literally any options whereby I can avoid it. Ruin > Explosive > Threat is where I want to be. Kozilek's Return just doesn't fit my curve. And the cases where I am not able to get my ideal curve, Return is actually just a lot weaker than I wanted it to be. There are too many things that survive it. Getting the trigger when I can World Breaker is great and all, but it probably doesn't even matter half the time. It is great out of the side board, and actually probably comes in most of the time(simply because my opponent probably brings in a bunch of disruption which means my ideal gameplay becomes weaker and anything to pump up the power of my bombs becomes that much more important.
Nissa's Pilgrimage. As stated before, I hated casting this card most of the time. It also fails to help me find mountains to cast the Chandra. Just literally not where I want to be, ever. Did the job sometimes, but doesn't make it the right card.
Hangarback Walker. This card is miserable right now. Anafenz and now Kalitas, plus a bunch of kills spells that exile. Yeah... Pass.
Sylvan Advocate. I like this in the board. Against slower decks, it is some good early pressure to make them deal with it instead of casting disruption. Blocks like a champion. Main board, it feels awkward on the curve.
My favorite part about Pilgrimmage is ensuring I will have another land in my hand to make a land drop the following turn as well. Making land drops for the first 5-6 turns is really important in this deck. When you get stuck at 3-4 lands for a few turns it's just awful.
My favorite part about Pilgrimmage is ensuring I will have another land in my hand to make a land drop the following turn as well. Making land drops for the first 5-6 turns is really important in this deck. When you get stuck at 3-4 lands for a few turns it's just awful.
That is fair. But at the end of the day, Pilgrimage is basically a concession to only really play 1 turn ahead of the curve. Unfortunately, against most of the field that isn't going to win. We have limited slots, and we need to be making an impact on the board by turn 4 most games. Turn 5 is the absolute latest that I want to be doing anything Ramp related. After that, I don't want any more Ramp spells. That is why my list is tuned around the 6/7/8 mana threats. The 10 mana Titans are nails in a coffin, not the knife that is putting my opponent down.
WG actually sounds like it has some merit. Wall of Resurgence + Sylvan Advocate should be fun. Planar Outburst sweeping hits everything we want. Dragonlord Dromoka cannot be countered and gives us Lifelink and forces decks to act sorcery speed against us.
4 Ruin in Their Wake
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
1 Nissa's Renewal
"SPECIAL" RAMP
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Hedron Archive
LANDS
4 Evolving Wilds
9 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Wastes
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Sylvan Advocate
1 Oblivion Sower
3 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 World Breaker
4 Kozilek's Return
1 Void Winnower
1 Desolation Twin
3 Conduit of Ruin
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Warping Wail
2 Roast
Monday Night Magic is a small 3 round tournament at my LGS, so not too many games to report on here.
Round 1: vs Abzan Aggro (1-2)
Played vs a friend of mine at the store. The past few weeks we both have gone 2-0 and then faced each other in the final round. I feel like this still is a bad matchup for Ramp decks - especially vs Abzan Aggro ones that mainboard some amount of Duress and Transgress.
Game 1
He duresses away a ramp spell early on but doesn't have enough pressure behind it. World Breaker at 7 mana exiling his Shambling Vents, sacced the Sanctum to get Oblivion Sower and played that out next turn to bridge the gap to 10 (had Ulamog in hand) while still getting another threat on the table. After landing Ulamog to exile the Rhino and Anafenza, he didn't draw into an answer and conceded on the Ulamog swing.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in 2 Roasts and cut 2 Hangarback (probably wrong as the cut, but I just don't like the feel of Hangarbacks)
Game 2
He duresses and transgresses my ramp spells early on and I just waddle around doing nothing other than play 2 Sylvan Advocates that both get killed by Abzan Charm and Murderous Cut. He ends up with a board of Warden, Sylvan Advocate, Anafenza, Rhino, Wingmate + token. I lose shortly after.
Game 3
Plays out similarly to game 2. Not much to say.
THOUGHTS: Early disruption + pressure is how you beat ramp and we do not have good answers for Abzan Aggro's threats. At least most of them rotate out this April (Warden, Anafenza, Rhino, and Wingmate Roc). I also never drew the roasts I brought in though I don't think they would have helped enough.
------------
Round 2: vs Boros Allies (2-0)
My opponent was a newer player with his own brew so I didn't expect much here.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground and is followed up Chandra wiping the board and then chaining World Breakers to close it out.
SIDEBOARDING: Brought in all 4 K-returns and took out 2 Ulamogs, 1 Kozilek, and 1 Oblivion Sower.
Game 2
Kozilek's Return wrecks his board as a 3 for 1 and then World Breaker chaining gets there again.
THOUGHTS: Decks full of 2 or less toughness creatures are when Kozilek's Return really shines for obvious reasons. It's also especially good vs decks that want to first main-phase their threats like Allies so you can get even more value before taking damage from combat.
-----------
Round 3: vs Abzan Blue (2-0)
This was an unusual mash up between Abzan Aggro cards and grinding out with Sidisi Tyrant, Deathmist Raptor, Den Protector, and Eldrazi Displacer.
Game 1
An early Sylvan Advocate holds down the ground while I ramp up uninterrupted and land an early Chandra to clear his board. Then the World Breaker chaining begins and he scoops.
SIDEBOARDING: Bring in 2 Roasts and a Conduit and take out 3 Hangarbacks.
Game 2
I get double Ruin in the Wake for full value early on and accelerate into Chandra again which clears the board. He gets stuck on 3 lands while I World Breaker chain to eat them alive and he scoops with 1 land remaining.
THOUGHTS: My opponent's deck was less aggressively focused than most Abzan Aggro variants and that combined with him not disrupting me made these games trivially easy to win.
-----
Overall thoughts
So 1-2, 2-0, 2-0 for the night - was happy enough with the results. Oath of Nissa is my pet card in this deck - I just love the help with consistency and its versatility in this deck. However, I never liked Hangarback in any of the games, so he now is definitely being cut. I'll test Matter Reshaper first in his spot. I'm still not sure on Warping Wail being worth the slots in the 75. I am so looking forward to Anafenza, Rhino and Wingmate rotating out (as well as Temur Battlerage, Become Immense, and all delve spells for that matter)! Hoping SOI brings us some new toys!
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I know you are playing post rotation which is still far away , but losing Ugin makes the deck really bad against current abzan aggro.
A big reason I'm playing this weird build is because I am simultaneously selling off my Tron deck. Ugin is not so hot in modern anymore (vs Affinity, Burn, Infect, Colorless Eldrazi, Zoo, etc he's either worthless or too slow and that's the meta as of late), so after rotation I don't see him as a highly desired commodity and so I sold him recently before rotation comes. Haven't been playing standard in a long time primarily because of the rotations, but just started up standard again this past month. Eldrazi Ramp was similar enough to my BW Eldrazi and RG Tron builds and contained some of the same pieces that it was easy enough to build into and learn to play as well so it naturally fit the bill. Also liking that not much of the deck other than Ugin rotates out.
Something I've been thinking about - vs the decks where the average toughness of creatures is 3 or more, like Rally and Eldrazi aggro variants, do you keep K-return in just for the return clause? Those are the types of matchups where I'm never sure on K-return being good enough. We still want a way to clear the board, but having a card where even if I draw it, I need to both pitch it to the grave and then cast a 7+ colorless to enable an actual clear is a tough sell.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
ACK! Wizards is making this hard! Hedron or vegetation. I myself am thinking about a 4 of Warping wail and didnt think about being able top have 2 up for wail, sick!
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Hooray someone likes my weird monstrosity!
As for a quick guide to this deck - barring foreseeable death, you stick with your game plan of maximizing the amount of mana you can have on each turn in the game and then playing out the fatties. Against decks that can threaten lethal quickly like the Prowess and Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage decks, bar on the side of throwing down some defense and removing their creatures. Like if you have T3 and can play K-return or Pilgrimmage against them, if they have Prowess guys main-phase your K-return, if they don't, pass and wait for them to go to combat (unless you suspect they are playing Stubborn Denial and the likes). You can pilgrimmage later when it's safer. #1 priority of course is make sure you do not die. #2 priority is to get as much mana as possible. In most games you will be not be under enough pressure to stray from your main game plan.
As for some matchup advice:
vs Rally: You want to destroy their white sources to slow them down from being able to play Rally. Even though they'll sac Nantuko in response, if you have an opportunity to target him and there aren't white lands out to hit instead, do it just to force them to get Nantuko off the board at least. A common line I like to take is World Breaker hitting a white source, sac Sanctum to get Oblivion Sower. Then run out the Sower and hope to hit some good ones (Rally, Nantuko, Reflector Mage, more white sources or white enablers are the best). Sower often will help bridge the gap to get to Ulamog as well. Same idea with Ulamog - prioritize hitting white sources and Nantuko if there isn't 2 white sources to hit.
vs Prowess: Don't hold off on killing their creatures for too long. They don't play that many creatures, so if your K-return or Chandra is just a 1-for-1 still do it. I've taken 16-18 in a single turn from Prowess ridiculous lines (Slip draw, Titan's Strength scry to top, Expedite draw the card, Become Immense / Temur Battle Rage). If you're familiar with the matchup against Infect in modern, that's how you play it here. Play the kill spells on your turn in almost every case. They at least will have to waste a prowess trigger to save it if they even can. Spatial Contortions and Titan's Presences do well here so you have some instant speed interaction just in case. With Titan's Presence you can wait for them to attack, don't block, and see if they churn out some spells then blow the prowess critter out. However, it's risky due to Stubborn Denial often being in their MB or at least SB.
vs Atarka Red / small Aggro critters: Here you can hold off on killing their creatures in many cases as long as they don't have a Swiftspear. Let them in for a few points a turn, then 3 for 1 them. Otherwise play it similarly as you do vs Prowess.
vs Control: Here is where playing 4x Sylvan Advocate in the main pays off a lot. Getting under them to force them to waste kill spells on the Advocate while they also need to hold up counters for your ramps is tough for them. Ruin in the Wake package also is very good here for similar reasons - Explosive Vegetation is noticeably weaker since paying 4 just to get it Negated is awful. Hedron Archives tend to not get countered as much, and have better late game presence from being able to cash them in which is great for grindier matches. I like landing Kozilek over Ulamog better in this matchup many times - their counters and kill spells often are 2-4 CMC so excess Ruins, Advocates, Pilgrimmages, Vegetations, and Archives are great Kozilek fodder for discarding to counter their spells. World Breaker chaining as usual is excellent in not letting them play as many spells per turn - prioritize hitting the charge lands like Mage-Ring, otherwise try to get them off double blue whenever possible.
vs Midrange: Just do your usual gameplan and you'll win more often than not. This deck preys on midrange decks.
Mirror Match: Mana denial is excellent of course, so Warping Wail definitely comes in. World Breaker chaining and Oblivion Sowers are excellent as well. Anything to help ramp or discount your spells more is fantastic, so bring in the Conduits. Sylvan Advocate still is great for a little beater to apply pressure and force their hand. Once he gets to a 4/5 (usually by T3 or 4) he presents a very fast clock. He's like a little Siege Rhino in the mirror. I have conflicting thoughts on how to play out Ulamog in the mirror. When they get to 10+ mana exiling lands doesn't really matter and their creatures often do not matter that much either - you'll have a staring contest between all your ground beaters. The best play with Ulamog is to wait for the opponent to drop their Ulamog first. The only way this deck deals with Ulamog is by exiling it themselves - with your own Ulamog! The 2nd to play Ulamog can often win it. Kozilek again is fantastic in this grindy mirror match. Oh and Void Winnower. Get that out as soon as possible (another reason I love Conduit - fetches Void and makes it only cost 7 mana to cast the next turn.
vs Bigger Aggro decks - Abzan Aggro, Eldrazi Aggro: This is tough. Your K-returns are inefficient as you need to spend mana to pitch one to the grave early, and then need to get to 7 mana and Worldbreaker to be able to clear their board. Chandra is great vs both, Ugin is best vs Abzan Aggro and near worthless vs Eldrazi Aggro (colorless hooray, I'll bolt your 4/4...). Bring in the Roasties here and additional Ugins if you're packing them.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Yea, never wanted Kozilek, always wanted another card.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/372178
Noteable differences in the MB: 1 Endless One, 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 4 Spatial Contortion.
Noteable differences in the SB: 2 Cranial Archives (awful graveyard tech, but I guess it's the best we have right now - should get better in SOI with Madness mechanic coming back)
The mana base looks very greedy though. It forgoes trying to fit Chandra in there for good reason. No Oaths, and only 1 mountain. Still pretty low on basic Forests - which is always an issue with the Ruin in the Wakes versions and why I decided to make cuts to a couple Shrines for that. I've been considering a 3/3 split of Sanctum and Shrine instead of the 4/2 split I have now (Sanctum too good). Shrine hasn't been as relevant lately when World Breaker is what I want to do the most often so getting to 8+ mana isn't as relevant. I think I'll stick with the 4/2 split to help with mana consistency issues.
Regarding the Spatial Contortions, that reminds me, I've been looking for cards to fill the gap with cutting the Hangarbacks. Matter Reshaper I only did a little testing with and though I often would net a card from it (unless it gets exiled), I didn't like it that much. I've been trying 3x Spatial Contortion instead and liking that a lot more. So my build right now is the same as listed before just -3 Hangarback +3 Spatial Contortion.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
For those who play this deck with a splash of white (if there are those still out there) I was wondering if Wall of Resurgence wouldn't be worth a look for the aggro matchups. Two blocks, and one with a toughness of 6 seems pretty good in most aggro MU.
First, I see a lot of you using 2 of Hedron Archive. I was going to put those in my deck but I opted for From Beyond instead since I felt like one of the issues I was having was getting my Eldrazi when I wanted/needed them and From Beyond helps tutor. I do run the 4 of Sanctum of Ugin and 2 Conduit of Ruin for tutor purposes. What do you guys think, why Hedron over From Beyond? Is the constant 2 mana that much better?
Second Question. Oath of Nissa. I love this card, I main deck it in my Modern GWave/Green Devotion deck. I am torn on putting it in this deck though, I am afraid that I have so many ramp spells that I will, at least on occasion, miss with it. Is that accurate or are you guys finding that it works pretty smooth?
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
I don't think the wall would be what we want for a few reasons. 1) White is our splash - we would want white by turn 3 against the aggro decks and with only 1 plains in the deck, that will be nowhere near consistent. 2) The Wall isn't much better than a Jaddi Offshoot, it doesn't deter them from attacking at all. 3) The additional creature is a land-creature which leaves us very prone to going down a land, and if we are going 4-colors we can easily get mana screwed with this.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Hedron ramps you faster than from beyond by at least 2 turns.
I think please who run oaths also run Chandra, makes things a lot easier.
There is only so much space.
There are many different types of build: land based ramp, creature based ramp (Oath is more attractive here), wastes with ruin in their wake (that also might run warping wail and hedrons) and builds with thought knot and matter reshapers without as much ramp.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
About Oath of Nissa, I started off playing the card very poorly. It's one that you should not just cast when you have open mana to do so. Common situations to cast it:
1) You mulliganed and/or are light on land drops early on. You Oath of Nissa in the first couple of turns to make sure you hit a land drop so you can cast your ramp spells.
2) You've ramped to 6+ mana and are ready to just be dropping World Breakers, Chandras, and Ugins and don't care as much about ramping - Oath for the threats.
3) You have plenty of mana but need a specific threat in your hand - this digs a few deep to try to get it quicker.
Yes, sometimes you will completely blank on it. I would say it's about the same likelihood as blanking on a CoCo cast in a deck meant to support CoCo. It happens sometimes, but it'll work out in your favor the vast majority of the time.
Always think about what you need and why before you cast it. If you really need threats, also increase the likelihood of finding them by proper sequencing - play your ramp spells first and Oath last if you're not going to have the mana to cast the threat yet anyways - this will reduce the likelihood of hitting some lands that you've now taken out of the deck.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Actually, just thought of something. Might be too cute, but might actually be good. Here's how Wall of Resurgence can work out favorably in the deck: make the deck GW instead of GR. Use Planar Outburst for the sweeper - which will not kill your animated lands from the Wall. Additionally, Sylvan Advocate will buff your animated lands, making the Wall of Resurgence animated land a 5/5 instead of a 3/3. Still has the same risks of going down a land, but at least far less likely since it avoids more removal spells with 5 toughness. Could also present a faster clock against slower decks. Might be worth testing a GW shell to see how it fares - I'm sure what Red can provide White can as well.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Sideboard is almost certainly incorrect, im pretty poor at building sideboards. Mostly trying to shore up the aggro match while adding a couple cards against midrange and control (Roast, Ugin + Warping Wail)
4 Evolving Wilds
9 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
6 Wastes
Ramp/Utility
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
4 Ruin in Their Wake
2 Warping Wail
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 World Breaker
Midrange
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Oblivion Sower
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 Warping Wail
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Roast
3 Spatial Contortion
you want some number of pilgrimage in your ramp package
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
9 Forest
4 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Canopy Vista
1 Wastes
RAMP/UTILITY
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Oath of Nissa
2 Hedron Archive
2 Natural Connection
2 Sylvan Scrying
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 World Breaker
1 Oblivion Sower
4 Sylvan Advocate
3 Wall of Resurgence
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
SWEEPERS
3 Planar Outburst
1 Void Winnower
1 Desolation Twin
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Warping Wail
1 Planar Outburst
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Immolating Glare
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Haven't tested it yet but seems like it could be tuned well. I'll try it out these next few days and if it pans out I'll run it out for FNM standard.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
if you dont draw a ruin then you arent ramping until t4 that is not where you want to be. I run 4 ruin 4 pilgrimage 3 explosive.
Pilgrimage always feels horrible though. If I am not on turn 3 explosive into turn 4 threat, I just feel like the deck's gameplan has failed.
The more I test, the more I feel like 4 Ruin in their Wake and 3/4 Warping Wail is correct. Warping Wail also has the upside of being able to be held back on turn 2 so that you can protect against a possible turn 2 Duress or Transgress the Mind. Then, if they don't cast that, you can get the Scion and cast a turn 3 Explosive(or a turn 3 Thought-Knot Seer if you don't get Explosive)
That allows you to either put a threat down that they need to deal with, or it allows you to threaten a turn 4 Chandra/World Breaker/Ugin.
My list:
3x Jaddi Offshoot
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Reality Smasher
1x Oblivion Sower
4x World Breaker
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sorceries (11)
4x Ruin in their Wake
3x Warping Wail
4x Explosive Vegetation
Enchantments (4)
4x Oath of Nissa
Lands (26)
4x Evolving Wilds
7x Forest
6x Wastes
2x Mountain
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Canopy Vista
3x Sanctum of Ugin
2x Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
Some notes about cards.
Jaddi Offshoot is there for life gain and to hedge against the smaller aggro decks. It does a surprising amount of work in a lot of matchups simply for the life gain.
Thought-Knot Seer gives this deck a threat that disrupts the opponent's gameplan somewhat, while also taking them off the plan of either killing us or disrupting us long enough World Breaker goes from huge bomb to just a strong creature that can be dealt with. In the games where you don't draw your ramp, or you do draw the ramp but don't draw your threats, this is at least able to do something that you care about.
Reality Smasher. Fills a similar role as Thought-Knot, but in a slightly different way. Can end the game by itself in the right circumstances, and has to be dealt with. Also, can block almost anything if you need it to.
Oblivion Sower. Following up a World Breaker with an Oblivion Sower is really strong, and will get you to 10 mana in most cases, which them opens you to Ulamog/Kozilek.
World Breaker. The reason to play the deck to begin with.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Not sure why I see a bunch of lists running 3 or 4 of this guy. 1 should end the game. I don't really want to draw it until I am ready to cast it, which takes time. Even if they deal with it, it does so much on cast that the game should basically be over at that point.
Kozilek, the Great Distortion. Same as Ulamog, but in a slightly different way. Drawing back up to 7 is insane.
Chandra, Flamecaller. Anyone not running this card in multiples is wrong. Casting it on turn 4, sometimes you can just win the game before they get an answer to it. Other times, you just want to draw gas, and man does she draw you into gas in a hurry. Oh, and she is a board wipe.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. I'm less hot on him than a lot of other people. Great as a board wipe, great as a terrifying threat, but does less to win the game than I really want him to a lot of the time. His biggest asset is that people basically drop everything else to kill him immediately.
Ruin in their Wake. 100% what I want to be casting on turn 2(with a Wastes in play, naturally).
Warping Wail. A good alternative to Ruin in their Wake. Plus, can help to protect the gameplan if I don't get a strong draw.
Explosive Vegetation. Best turn 3 play in the deck. Getting to 6 mana by turn 4 is insane. Getting to 7 or 8 mana by turn 4 is basically unbeatable if you have anything to do with the mana.
Oath of Nissa. Smooths a lot of draws, isn't a terrible late game draw and make a muligan feel less miserable. Given how much this deck wants to make sure it hits the right lands at the start of the game, and how much it wants to get past that stuff into threats at the end of the game, this card does everything you want. Again, people not running 4 of this card are probably wrong.
Now, about the things I'm not playing:
Kozilek's Return. Man, it hurt to cut this card from the mainboard. Unfortunately, my game 1 plan is not to be casting this card, if there is literally any options whereby I can avoid it. Ruin > Explosive > Threat is where I want to be. Kozilek's Return just doesn't fit my curve. And the cases where I am not able to get my ideal curve, Return is actually just a lot weaker than I wanted it to be. There are too many things that survive it. Getting the trigger when I can World Breaker is great and all, but it probably doesn't even matter half the time. It is great out of the side board, and actually probably comes in most of the time(simply because my opponent probably brings in a bunch of disruption which means my ideal gameplay becomes weaker and anything to pump up the power of my bombs becomes that much more important.
Nissa's Pilgrimage. As stated before, I hated casting this card most of the time. It also fails to help me find mountains to cast the Chandra. Just literally not where I want to be, ever. Did the job sometimes, but doesn't make it the right card.
Hangarback Walker. This card is miserable right now. Anafenz and now Kalitas, plus a bunch of kills spells that exile. Yeah... Pass.
Sylvan Advocate. I like this in the board. Against slower decks, it is some good early pressure to make them deal with it instead of casting disruption. Blocks like a champion. Main board, it feels awkward on the curve.
Those are my thoughts.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
That is fair. But at the end of the day, Pilgrimage is basically a concession to only really play 1 turn ahead of the curve. Unfortunately, against most of the field that isn't going to win. We have limited slots, and we need to be making an impact on the board by turn 4 most games. Turn 5 is the absolute latest that I want to be doing anything Ramp related. After that, I don't want any more Ramp spells. That is why my list is tuned around the 6/7/8 mana threats. The 10 mana Titans are nails in a coffin, not the knife that is putting my opponent down.
I might have to try this out for now just because I am still waiting on my Kozilek's Returns in the mail, but I have all the cards in this list.