The Abzan problem is a problem for a lot of other decks as well.
Perhaps the sideboard could be designed around beating Abzan with cards like Transgress the Mind and Infinite Obliteration.
This does make our spells more controlling and less aggro, but it may disrupt Abzan enough to give us the edge.
Sorry, but I would rather cast something that immediately impacts the board than something that either a) needs the help of another card to function or b) needs me to take a turn off to level. Don't get me wrong, those cards are brilliant in limited, but in standard, you just don't have the time to take a turn off to level up those creatures or hope to draw Drana. TBH, this deck build in general is a bit too slow as is, and throwing in a leveler to boot is not going to help it. The saving grace of this deck, and what still draws me to it, is the synergy in casting these highly synergistic lowdrops and getting value from both bringing them back and losing them.
I started out with a Rally the Ancestors + Allies deck, but quickly realized the ally tribe wasn't powerful enough. Zulaport Cutthroat is awesome, though. This is the latest iteration (by memory):
I have found I need to play a number of sacrifice/exploit dudes to trigger the Cutthroat and to prevent the creatures from being exiled by Rally. Ruthless Ripper and Qarsi Sadist were added to buy time against aggro decks.
The deck fares well in the "just for fun" room on MTGO. With all the triggers this deck is probably a nightmare to play in paper format. I was considering adding Siege Rhino, but figured the mana base would need a major (expensive) upgrade which I'm not interested in at the moment. I'd probably replace 4 rhinos for knight, 2 Read the bones and 1x Aven.
Its a straight out flood the board and use your creatures interaction to suck the life of the opponent. Altar's reap is a good way to refill your hand if you need the gas late game and while having gideon in there would be great as the tokens he creates triggers your allies, sorin does a half decent job. Though I'd really jam gideon there instead.
The emissary is there to consistently trigger your steward, while some use 4, I personally like having 2 in as it gives me options on other creatures.
Side board is mostly self explanatory, especially with tainted remedy whose job is to stop various life gain strategies (wingmate roc, lantern scout, kalastria healer, etc...)
Does Gideon, Ally of Zendikar's +1 ability trigger "Ally entering the battlefield" effects? That is, would +1ing Gideon trigger Kalastria Healer's life drain effect?
Edit: My apologies. Answered this on my own through some simple research. (He does not trigger Rally effects, as he does not "enter" the battlefield considering he was already on the battlefield.)
However, I do have another question regarding Gideon's +1: He gains Indesructible and has all damage prevented during the turn. Is the only way to remove him an instant that would either exile him or cause the owner to sacrifice him?
Does Gideon, Ally of Zendikar's +1 ability trigger "Ally entering the battlefield" effects? That is, would +1ing Gideon trigger Kalastria Healer's life drain effect?
Edit: My apologies. Answered this on my own through some simple research. (He does not trigger Rally effects, as he does not "enter" the battlefield considering he was already on the battlefield.)
However, I do have another question regarding Gideon's +1: He gains Indesructible and has all damage prevented during the turn. Is the only way to remove him an instant that would either exile him or cause the owner to sacrifice him?
This is correct. Until end of turn, you could only exile him, or sacrifice him. He essentially becomes a 5/5 that can't die, and the point of preventing combat damage is because that damage would be dealt to Gideon in the form of loyalty counters.
I built this deck without much testing, i took a leap of faith taking it to a PPTQ (around 70 people) and ended up with 4 wins, 2 loses and 1 draw which was more than I expected with my lack of practice with the deck.
I've never really liked Zulaport cutthroats in the deck, I kept siding them out as most of the decks are exiling our creatures rather than destroying them, also brutal hordechief feels a bit odd in the deck I'm probably switching it por another gideon when I get anotherone. I would have really liked one more self inflicted wound and surge of righteousness in the side as well. Kalastria healer is the MVP of the deck along drana.
When you get to play March from the tomb for real value it is awesome, the thing is it doesn't always work out as you plan it. Sometimes you get your guys removed with silkwrap, abzan charm, stasis snare or complete disregard or you just have better options for your turn like activating shambling vent and leave mana up for removal, casting one of the planeswalkers, use serene steward's ability + any other thing.
I could probably leave it as a one of. It's a really good lategame card and I like having that as matches tend to be longer with all the lifegain shennanigans.
Towards the rally the ancestors question... I haven't tested it at all but my instinct tells me that this build, without nantuko husk and Liliana, heretical healer, is not the most suited for it. Sure it can bring back some allies and trigger Kalastria healer a couple times while chumpblocking but that's it, everything is exiled aftewards. I believe I would rather get drana's emissary, Drana, liberator of malakir or an enourmous bloodbond vampire permanently. But nonetheless it's a matter of testing the card and see if it fits.
I apologize for not posting on my own child forum recently. I have been incredibly busy.
Unfortunately, I was not able to play this deck at all in a competitive environment. Not only due to an increased schedule load, but increased financial load.
That being said, I am more than joyed that people enjoyed the deck. When I first made this primer, I was hoping people would say it was decent at least. I didn't have much experience in crafting decks at the time (especially in standard). Even though some heavy elements of the deck came from many amazing people here, it still brings me joy to see people enjoying the deck that I was able to start.
A huge thanks to everyone who contributed to, critiqued, and especially played this deck or an inspired variant. It's a shame I won't be doing much standard at this point, but perhaps I shall return when my financial situation stabilizes.
The main strategy is to use Kalastria Healers and Zulaports to cripple the opponent's life in early game and finish them off with rally the ancestors. The other creatures provide good attacking power, especially when supported by Drana, and not to mention ample lifelink opportunities.
The sideboard is still a big work in progress. I just used mostly what I thought were the best sideboard cards I had at the time.
The Liliana from the OP's deck list seem an interesting choice though, do you think it'd fit well in my current deck?
Just curious, why do you think Serene Steward and more Drana's Emissary are necessary? While they're both good Ally creatures, I don't think they'd fit too well because Serene Steward would be too slow, and Drana's Emissary doesn't have rally triggers, which is a greater theme in this deck.
Given that no spell has CMC greater than 4 in this deck, I'm think 24 lands might be too much, and I'm thin about taking 1 out for [probably] another creature. Would Alesha who Smiles at Death be a good addition?
Mardu allies usually are more a sort of aggro combo, trying to get the rally+chasm combo and a huge amount of kalastria healer triggers, I haven't tested those builds so correct me if I'm wrong.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim may be an indicator that WotC is aware of the life-gain decks out there and are looking to give the extra life more purpose than outlasting the game. This card will ensure late-game domination, even if they manage to get out a fatty eldrazi.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet Will also be a valuable asset. It essentially is a way to get 2/2's to enter the field and trigger our other abilities. On top of that, he can buff and become a nice life-gainer.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet Will also be a valuable asset. It essentially is a way to get 2/2's to enter the field and trigger our other abilities. On top of that, he can buff and become a nice life-gainer.
It's a zombie creature, it'll not trigger our abilities?
And of course the landbase should be adjusted to splash green.
We now also can use Veteran Warleader, Dromoka's Command orAbzan Charm.
Collected company can fetch every creature because all is 3 CMC or less.
Please let me know if you guys have any other ideas suggestions ^^
I have considered splashing a third color, but ultimately am against it. The synergy of this deck is essentially about unstoppable life-drain, massive swings, etc. Do not get me wrong, splashing in a third color would be nice, but I don't believe the cards we could add justify messing up what has done well in my playtesting sessions. I will play-test the color splash, however, and get back to you.
Another thing is, I feel like there are good cards coming out that are better than the third color splash cards, and would replace them, thus removing the point of a third color splash.
Kor Bladewhirl isn't in the mainboard because it hasn't been needed against the decks I play-tested against. Granted, I haven't been playing much standard recently, so things might have changed. Essentially, first-strike is never needed, so why add it? Lantern Scout was considered, but removed, because all she does is give us life-link when we already have plenty of life-gain. I wouldn't want to get rid of the current line-up of creatures for her.
Read what I said about about splashing a third color. Maybe red will be a different story, but I am not too sure. Usually my draws have been secure, and rearranging them might not be that needed.
Not sure what you mean in the last question. March from the Tomb has a secure mana cost, and what it allows us to do is take a massive swing that they are forced to block or else they die, then just put them all back onto the battlefield to trigger massive ally effects (which may very well kill them.)
It's important to note that some of these great vampires were unintentionally allies.
More-so importantly, and unfortunately, the deck really "needs" Kalastria healer. Having just *one* of him allows us to drain life when we have creatures enter, or when we use march from the tomb.
Getting rid of kalastria healer in favor of adding a splash of another color isn't a bad idea, but it is a different deck when you do that. It's a matter of questioning which is more effectiive/efficient. To that, we would need to pit the two decks against each other or against same opponents and compare.
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Perhaps the sideboard could be designed around beating Abzan with cards like Transgress the Mind and Infinite Obliteration.
This does make our spells more controlling and less aggro, but it may disrupt Abzan enough to give us the edge.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Foul-tongue Shriek really improved my mono black aggro decks.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4x despise - removes Den Protector and planeswalkers
4x Transgress the mind - exile what ever is the most threatening card that they reveal. Such as Siege Rhino Anafenza, the Foremost Dragonlord Dromoka Wingmate Roc Languish Utter End and Abzan charm
4x Self-inflicted Wound - my favorite. It shocks them and hits just about every creature they have
3x Infinite Obliteration - Exile all of their Rhinos while also getting to see their entire deck. Drawing a second one just means exiling another one of their threats.
You could literally bring in your entire side board.
I dont know if it gets any better than this.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Merciless Executioner
2x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Grim Haruspex
2x Ruthless Ripper
2x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2x Qarsi Sadist
2x Vulturous Aven
1x Knight of the White Orchid
1x Murderous Cut
2x Read the Bones
1x Crux of Fate
1x Planar Outburst
4x Scoured Barrens
4x Caves of Koilos
1x Mortuary Mire
7x Plains
9x Swamp
I have found I need to play a number of sacrifice/exploit dudes to trigger the Cutthroat and to prevent the creatures from being exiled by Rally. Ruthless Ripper and Qarsi Sadist were added to buy time against aggro decks.
The deck fares well in the "just for fun" room on MTGO. With all the triggers this deck is probably a nightmare to play in paper format. I was considering adding Siege Rhino, but figured the mana base would need a major (expensive) upgrade which I'm not interested in at the moment. I'd probably replace 4 rhinos for knight, 2 Read the bones and 1x Aven.
3x Bloodsoaked Champion
3x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Serene Steward
2x Wingmate Roc
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
Sorcery
2x Bone Splinters
2x March from the Tomb
4x Caves of Koilos
5x Plains
2x Scoured Barrens
3x Shambling Vent
8x Swamp
Instant
3x Ultimate Price
3x Valorous Stance
Planeswalker
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Aligned Hedron Network
2x Celestial Flare
2x Erase
2x Hallowed Moonlight
2x Infinite Obliteration
2x Ruinous Path
2x Stasis Snare
2x Surge of Righteousness
4 bloodsoaked champion
4 kalastria healer
4 zulaport cutthroat
2 drana's emissary
2 drana, liberator of malakir
2 brutal hordechief
2 serene steward
2 lantern scout
Other Spells
2 sorin solemn visitor
2 stasis snare
2 altar's reap
1 march from the tomb
1 murderous cut
1 ruinous path
1 complete disregard
4 caves of coilos
3 shambling vents
4 scoured barrens
7 swamp
6 plains
2 self inflicted wound
2 duress
2 transgress the mind
2 erase
1 march the tomb
1 tainted remedy
1 stasis snare
2 surge of righteousness
1 ruinous path
Its a straight out flood the board and use your creatures interaction to suck the life of the opponent. Altar's reap is a good way to refill your hand if you need the gas late game and while having gideon in there would be great as the tokens he creates triggers your allies, sorin does a half decent job. Though I'd really jam gideon there instead.
The emissary is there to consistently trigger your steward, while some use 4, I personally like having 2 in as it gives me options on other creatures.
Side board is mostly self explanatory, especially with tainted remedy whose job is to stop various life gain strategies (wingmate roc, lantern scout, kalastria healer, etc...)
Edit: My apologies. Answered this on my own through some simple research. (He does not trigger Rally effects, as he does not "enter" the battlefield considering he was already on the battlefield.)
However, I do have another question regarding Gideon's +1: He gains Indesructible and has all damage prevented during the turn. Is the only way to remove him an instant that would either exile him or cause the owner to sacrifice him?
This is correct. Until end of turn, you could only exile him, or sacrifice him. He essentially becomes a 5/5 that can't die, and the point of preventing combat damage is because that damage would be dealt to Gideon in the form of loyalty counters.
This is my decklist
3x Ally Encampment
4x Caves of Koilos
6x Plains
2x Scoured Barrens
2x Shambling Vent
6x Swamp
Creatures (25)
1x Bloodbond Vampire
1x Brutal Hordechief
3x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Kalastria Healer
3x Kor Bladewhirl
3x Lantern Scout
4x Serene Steward
2x Zulaport Cutthroat
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Ultimate Price
3x Valorous Stance
2x March from the Tomb
2x Silkwrap
1x Stasis Snare
3x Duress
1x Felidar Cub
2x Infinite Obliteration
1x Ultimate price
2x Self-Inflicted Wound
2x Surge of Righteousness
3x Transgress the Mind
1x Utter End
There were 7 rounds and this were my matchups, I can't exactly rember them so no reports just results:
Round 1 - Abzan aggro, lost 1-2
Round 2 - BR Aggro, lost 1-2
Round 3 - GR Eldrazi ramp, win 2-0
Round 4 - GW scales, Draw 1-1
Round 5 - BR Aggro, win 2-0
Round 6 - GB Elves, win 2-0
Round 7 - Atarka Red, win 2-1
I've never really liked Zulaport cutthroats in the deck, I kept siding them out as most of the decks are exiling our creatures rather than destroying them, also brutal hordechief feels a bit odd in the deck I'm probably switching it por another gideon when I get anotherone. I would have really liked one more self inflicted wound and surge of righteousness in the side as well. Kalastria healer is the MVP of the deck along drana.
Anyway... any comments are welcomed
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I could probably leave it as a one of. It's a really good lategame card and I like having that as matches tend to be longer with all the lifegain shennanigans.
Towards the rally the ancestors question... I haven't tested it at all but my instinct tells me that this build, without nantuko husk and Liliana, heretical healer, is not the most suited for it. Sure it can bring back some allies and trigger Kalastria healer a couple times while chumpblocking but that's it, everything is exiled aftewards. I believe I would rather get drana's emissary, Drana, liberator of malakir or an enourmous bloodbond vampire permanently. But nonetheless it's a matter of testing the card and see if it fits.
Unfortunately, I was not able to play this deck at all in a competitive environment. Not only due to an increased schedule load, but increased financial load.
That being said, I am more than joyed that people enjoyed the deck. When I first made this primer, I was hoping people would say it was decent at least. I didn't have much experience in crafting decks at the time (especially in standard). Even though some heavy elements of the deck came from many amazing people here, it still brings me joy to see people enjoying the deck that I was able to start.
A huge thanks to everyone who contributed to, critiqued, and especially played this deck or an inspired variant. It's a shame I won't be doing much standard at this point, but perhaps I shall return when my financial situation stabilizes.
Good luck with your personal life.
Come back when you can!
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
2x Lantern Scout
3x Firemantle Mage
2x Nantuko Husk
2x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Chasm Guide
2x Expedition Envoy
1x Drana's Emissary
Spells (10):
2x Crackling Doom
2x End Hostilities
4x Rally the Ancestors
2x Read the Bones
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands (24):
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
3x Plains
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Nomad Outpost
3x Shambling Vent
3x Smoldering Marsh
2x Ally Encampment
2x Cave of Koilos
2x Battlefield Forge
1x Windswept Heath
4x Surge of Righteousness
4x Infinite Obliteration
2x Stasis Snare
2x Felidar Cub
1x Encircling Fissure
2x Duress
The main strategy is to use Kalastria Healers and Zulaports to cripple the opponent's life in early game and finish them off with rally the ancestors. The other creatures provide good attacking power, especially when supported by Drana, and not to mention ample lifelink opportunities.
The sideboard is still a big work in progress. I just used mostly what I thought were the best sideboard cards I had at the time.
The Liliana from the OP's deck list seem an interesting choice though, do you think it'd fit well in my current deck?
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
1x Munda, Ambush Leader
3x Lantern Scout
3x Firemantle Mage
3x Nantuko Husk
1x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
2x Chasm Guide
2x Expedition Envoy
1x Drana's Emissary
Spells (10):
3x Crackling Doom
1x Ruinous Path
4x Rally the Ancestors
2x Read the Bones
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands (24):
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
3x Plains
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Nomad Outpost
3x Shambling Vent
3x Smoldering Marsh
2x Ally Encampment
2x Cave of Koilos
2x Battlefield Forge
1x Windswept Heath
4x Surge of Righteousness
4x Infinite Obliteration
2x Stasis Snare
2x Felidar Cub
1x End Hostilities
2x Duress
Just curious, why do you think Serene Steward and more Drana's Emissary are necessary? While they're both good Ally creatures, I don't think they'd fit too well because Serene Steward would be too slow, and Drana's Emissary doesn't have rally triggers, which is a greater theme in this deck.
Given that no spell has CMC greater than 4 in this deck, I'm think 24 lands might be too much, and I'm thin about taking 1 out for [probably] another creature. Would Alesha who Smiles at Death be a good addition?
The BW build is a more midrange kind of deck which revolves around draining life with kalastria healer and finishing off with flyers such as drana's emissary and drana, liberator of malakir.
Mardu allies usually are more a sort of aggro combo, trying to get the rally+chasm combo and a huge amount of kalastria healer triggers, I haven't tested those builds so correct me if I'm wrong.
If splash with green we have access to :
Beastcaller Savant
Veteran Warleader
Collected Company
If splash with red we have access to :
Resolute Blademaster
Firemantle Mage
Chasm Guide
Munda, Ambush Leader (The effect works like CoCo)
Ondu Champion
Angelic Captain
Another question is , best scenario would be to use Rally the Ancestors and March from the Tomb or only one of this cards
You are forgetting about Zulaport Cutthroat.
I have considered splashing a third color, but ultimately am against it. The synergy of this deck is essentially about unstoppable life-drain, massive swings, etc. Do not get me wrong, splashing in a third color would be nice, but I don't believe the cards we could add justify messing up what has done well in my playtesting sessions. I will play-test the color splash, however, and get back to you.
Another thing is, I feel like there are good cards coming out that are better than the third color splash cards, and would replace them, thus removing the point of a third color splash.
Kor Bladewhirl isn't in the mainboard because it hasn't been needed against the decks I play-tested against. Granted, I haven't been playing much standard recently, so things might have changed. Essentially, first-strike is never needed, so why add it? Lantern Scout was considered, but removed, because all she does is give us life-link when we already have plenty of life-gain. I wouldn't want to get rid of the current line-up of creatures for her.
Read what I said about about splashing a third color. Maybe red will be a different story, but I am not too sure. Usually my draws have been secure, and rearranging them might not be that needed.
Not sure what you mean in the last question. March from the Tomb has a secure mana cost, and what it allows us to do is take a massive swing that they are forced to block or else they die, then just put them all back onto the battlefield to trigger massive ally effects (which may very well kill them.)
As for the cards, I shall get back to you on that, as new spoilers were released.
More-so importantly, and unfortunately, the deck really "needs" Kalastria healer. Having just *one* of him allows us to drain life when we have creatures enter, or when we use march from the tomb.
Getting rid of kalastria healer in favor of adding a splash of another color isn't a bad idea, but it is a different deck when you do that. It's a matter of questioning which is more effectiive/efficient. To that, we would need to pit the two decks against each other or against same opponents and compare.