After seeing a post on reddit about a deck that uses Assault Formation as a win condition I got inspired to create a list of my own. The deck is for the most part a control list that looks to slow down attacks with huge defenders and removal while you wait to draw/play Ass Formation. With the Jace/Dig synergy we can hope to find the pieces we need to put the beatdown on our opponents quickly. Monastery Siege is in there as a way to find Ass Formation since it is just about the only way we win. Languish has really good synergy in this deck as it pretty much kills nothing in our deck, resulting in a one sided board wipe a lot of the time.
The biggest issue I see with this deck is you need to protect Assault Formation once it hits table, and ideally be able to win without dropping Assault Formation.
With 0 Mainboard counterspells, a 4 of Dromoka's command in an Azban build is going to run you over.
Sadly Bring to Light does not fetch us enchantments so I cant run that. I think the way I designed the deck is that I will draw into a copy of assault formation every game, usually 2-3 so protecting it is not a huge issue since one card is this decks weakness. From the sideboard I will bring in cards like Duress and Negate.
In the end it might just be better to run cards that can win the game without the formation but until I see how the meta shapes up I think playing defensive and controlling the board until DF comes down works out most of the time. And if not I have Silumgar and Lumbering Falls as a back up plan.
Yeah I really think there could be a fun version of this deck that is more aggro orientated and it runs cards like Kin-tree invocation and Shape the Sands.
Some interesting starts/interactions I have found so far include turn 1 Sidisi's Faithful into turn 2 Kin-Tree Invocation. Taigam's Scheming does a good job of feeding Graveblade Marauder and fueling Murderous Cut.
Have you done much testing with that list? it looks fun for sure but I just dont see how you win if you dont have a Formation out. With all the Dromoka's Commands running around my original thought was to play defensive with solid removal as I filter through the deck.
I guess with Kin-Tree Invocation you can have a 4/4 or 6/6 swinging in if you cant draw the formation.
I've just been goldfishing it online at the moment. I'll take it to FNM next Friday because I expect the cards won't make it to me before this Friday. I see the win conditions from best to worst as being Assault Formation, Kin-Tree Invocation, Graveblade Marauder.
I think the most important metacall for this deck, at least in the sideboard, is to have a way to deal with dromokas command; your main win con revolves around an enchantment so this can blow you out pretty easily if you're not careful. Id say there's 2 different ways in these colors to go about it:
1) counterspells. Cheap ones like negate and dispel should be fine
2) play other enchantments you can throw away if you get hit by a dcommand. sphinx's tutelage is an interesting option as an alt win condition so you don't totally rely on formation. "Removal" enchantments are also a great idea like singing bell strike that can help you stall till you start dropping win cons. mirror mockery might also be sweet too since it has dual applications; you can equip it to an opponents dude to stall or you can also equip it to your own dudes that have useful etb effects. sidisi, undead vizier is a personal favorite. Free tutors every turn!
I was thinking of trying to create a primer about a deck like this. Originally I was making G/B Aggro deck and I noticed the insane play of Disowned Ancestor into Kin-Tree Invocation. Then I realized an Assault Formation deck would be pretty fun to play. I've been making notes about various options in each color:
Blue
Sidisi's Faithful - Good defensive opener, bounce spell or a 4/4 for 1 late game.
Updraft Elemental - I like this card over Monastery Flock because it doesn't have defender. The main flyers in standard right now are Thopter Tokens, and Mantis Rider so the 1 loss in toughness isn't a dealbreaker.
Profaner of the Dead - Fits perfect in this deck. My only issue with this card is that in this format, bouncing the opponent's creatures could be a liability for instance if you are bouncing a Den Protector. It's main use would be to clear the way after you already have a board state, and want to go in for the alpha swing.
The main reason for blue though is that it is the only color that allows efficient searching for Assault Formation itself. Anticipate, and Monastery Siege. The other reason is the best protection through Dispel and Negate.
Kin-Tree Invocation - IMO the main reason to go Black. Turn 2 4/4. Turn 3 6/6. Good beginning and late game with a low cost. Doesn't require Assault Formation.
Grim Contest - I only don't like this card a lot because it requires you to have a creature out. Instant speed is the key here.
Duress/Despise - Sideboard cards against control. Could maybe have a few main deck but I think going the route of Counters or Multiple Enchantments is more efficient.
Foul Renewal - Expensive and requires a creature in the graveyard. Getting a creature back and removal at instant speed is pretty nice though.
Red
Crater Elemental - The best 0/6 outside of Dragon's Eye Savants. Easy to cast, and has built in removal. We'd likely never get to use the Formidable ability. I mainly liked it as an option to use Fruit of the First Tree as easy card draw. 6 Cards and 6 Life for 3GR.
Radiant Flames - One of the better reasons to go red. This is the cheapest mass removal right now, and it goes right under our creatures. Great way to clear out an overwhelming board state even with all of our defenders.
Break Through The Line - Janky, but if we go the multiple enchantment route, it could be a way to lock up the game. The way Assault Formation works this card reads: R: Target creature has haste and Unblockable. It turns all of our 1 and 2 drop creatures into quick hasty beats. Downside is it only really works well with Assault Formation out.
White
Orator of Ojutai - Mainly just like it as a quick flying blocker outside of Monastery Flock or Updraft Elemental. If you're into White then synergy with Dragonlord Ojutai and Dragonlord Dromoka is there for card draw.
Brave the Sands - Really a win more versus Atarka and Weenie Strategies.
Silkwrap/Stasis Snare/Quarantine Field/Citadel Siege - The main reason for white would be either as a very light splash or for a mass enchantment removal package. White doesn't seem to give us too much outside of this.
Become Immense - We could go the Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage tricks way of recent Atarka as a backup to Assault Formation.
Shape the Sands - Better than Become Immense but only if we have Assault Formation out. Our weakness when Formation isn't out is already there, I don't want to make it worse.
Fruit of the First Tree - Another janky idea, but the possible life gain and draw we could get from this card is huge.
Abzan Beastmaster - I'm not the biggest fan but it is card advantage outside of blue that would basically be free to us. It'd be a major target for removal, but doesn't do much other than that. Overall I think Monastery Siege is a better option.
I apologize for kind of hijacking the thread but it isn't often other people show interest in an Assault Formation deck.
Nice to know there is a thread for this idea, Torrysan and i have been brewing on a similar Idea, for the last couple Days, including a combo shell wich combines exploit critters with Mirror Mockery.
Yup! Fun to play, viability remains to be assessed. Our lists relied a little more on Exploit and less on Ass Formation though, and it feels nearly there... may need another good finisher. My list:
mirror mockery might also be sweet too since it has dual applications; you can equip it to an opponents dude to stall or you can also equip it to your own dudes that have useful etb effects. sidisi, undead vizier is a personal favorite. Free tutors every turn!
Sadly copying Sidisi, Undead Vizier won't be that valuable, as either the original or the copyed version has to be destroyed by state based action, due to the legendary rule, that happens even before, the EtB trigger goes on the stack, so if you destroy the copy, the EtB ability won't resolve successfully as the creature who has the ability to sacrifice itself or another creature is not on the field anymore. You can choose to destroy the original if you want, but then you would loose both the original and Mirror Mockery for a single tutor.
However that least could be a welcome option sometimes, and both Mirror Mockery and Sidisi, Undead Vizier are really worth running in multiples.
Considering the Exploit strategy, there is another reason to play Mizzium Meddler, as Exploit becomes a bit fragile, if your opponent decides to kill the creature you want to sacrifice, then you can use it to redirect the removal or ability, used to do so. This is especially important if he wants to exile your Hangarback Walker or Blisterpod that you wanted to sacrifice.
Yeah, you're right, I actually went and looked it up right after I posted it to see how wrong I was lol, oh well. Like you said though there's still a lot of interesting things you can do here with both of those cards so it's probably still worth giving both of them a look. Attaching it onto a rakshasa gravecaller for instance gives you two free zombies every turn when you swing!
Took out the gimmicky cards that didn't really belong in the strat (Smothering Abomination, Blisterpod) and replaced them with a more solid defense plan. This list still needs to be tested, and the manabase is a mess that needs help
I think the colors are set on Sultai. Blue and Black have great toughness creatures and synergies between them, grant access to 2 good defensive dragons and an awesome control toolbox.
As discussed before, deck's main weakness is Dromoka's Command. To offset this, I've pushed Kin-Tree Invocation to a 4-of to provide additional midgame contenders, and the control combos with the bouncers + Mirror Mockery + their good toughness should take care of the early game. Also added Dispel and Disdainful Stroke/Negate in the sideboard for Abzan.
Considering the Exploit strategy, there is another reason to play Mizzium Meddler, as Exploit becomes a bit fragile, if your opponent decides to kill the creature you want to sacrifice, then you can use it to redirect the removal or ability, used to do so. This is especially important if he wants to exile your Hangarback Walker or Blisterpod that you wanted to sacrifice.
I don't think that's a good idea. What you're basically doing is redirecting a spell that would kill a toughness 3 or less creature to this guy so he could survive it, right? The lists usually don't run -3 toughness creatures, so anything that was going to kill our creatures to begin with, will kill this guy as well. Counterspells are more efficient and versatile in my opinion, not to mention if we want to cast on curve having 3 floating mana will be tough.
Attaching it onto a rakshasa gravecaller for instance gives you two free zombies every turn when you swing!
I did consider that! problem is, he can't swing reliably in my opinion, so the most you'll get out of 4B and 1U is 4 zombies (while wasting 3 cards), since he'll only swing once if you get lucky. Of course if you're steamrolling and can have the board setup by then it's "cool", but I wouldn't call him viable. Both enchanted Sidisi's Faithful and Profaner of the Dead can attack more safely because they're removing blockers out of the equation.
I just think Sidisi, Undead Vizier is a much better 5 mana option. It gives you a wall with deathtouch and fishes a finisher for the next turn.
Would really appreciate comments on the Exploit variant. Also considering splashing for Siege Rhino, since it wouldd have great synergy with Mirror Mockery.
Well Sultai is a nice option, but between Mockery and Formation there are tons of options and strategies on a UGx basement.
Maybe rename it to U/G/X Assault Formation?
I will start a new Primer this week, to discuss all options Including Simic, Sultai, Temur, Bant, Unred (wubg), Unwhite and Unblack.
Yeah, how would we go about doing that? if it's as easy as just starting a new thread, I can take care of it as well. I already have a template written.
I don´t see Dromokas Command being that big of a problem, as you could easily include a playlet of both Formation and Mockery, and once you have both on the field, you can choose wich one to sacrifice, but yea having some Counterspells in the Sideboard should be a good option.
Yeah, counterspells are there for control matchups mainly. Decks with additional enchantments should be ok vs Dromoka's, but we have some lists here that rely on it as a sole wincon.
No he's not ment to survive at any means, redirecting a silkwrap is just fine, if its original target was your combo-creature (the one enchanted with mockery).
Consider him as a counter spell for anything that targets your important creatures, but instead of a counter spell, he con also make huge board impact, by being a flash 4/4 with Formation, or sucking positive effects from your opponent like the ones by Retreat to Kazandu or Stealing any support spell your opponent wanted to use on his own creature.
But even playing him as a flash 1/4 is fine sometimes, as you can always replay him later by bouncing him with Sidisi's Faithfull if you need high redirecting capabilities in mid to late game.
He also plays in a perfect Curve with both Sidisi's Faithful Combos:
Turn 1: Sidisi's Faithful
Turn 2: Mirror Mockery/Assault Formation
Turn 3: Mizzium Meddler
Yeah, I'd have to test him to be sold on it... I prefer Benthic Infiltrator personally, but playing T3 reactively could throw your opponent off guard.
After Siege Rhino Exploit is indeed the most powerful effect you can get out of Mirror Mockery, but i think the only viable Targets are the ones we already use wich are Faithful and Profaner.
Well, I got Minister of Pain in the sideboard, I think she could be good for swarming strats. I'll try to splash for Siege Rhino and see if it doesn't screw up the mana too much.
Yea actually its just a thread, where introduce people to a strategic archetype you keep the First Post updated with card choices, strategic options and descriptions.
I´ve already listed major options for the Color combinations and made a list of all Cards that have good synergy with either Mockery or Formation in each colour.
So if you want to start and handle the Primer, i can send you those lists and update them with descriptions.
And wanted to make an Illustration for the Header and aswell.
That sounds sweet! I'll be doing more testing tomorrow, so tomorrow night is probably when it'll be posted. I don't want to post a primer for something that hasn't been tested vs at least 3 decks.
But concerning sultai, i can really recommend Foul Renewal, as that thing not only returns the best creature in your graveyard but also kills indestructible stuff like Gideon (played in 6 of 8 pro tour top8-lists) or Sarkhan (played in the other 2 Top8 lists :D).
Looks good, but I might have problems putting it in... I wouldn't know what to cut.
And Sultai charm did well for me, as its a nice option against Enchantment centric lists.
Could try it as a sideboard option.
Other cards that might be worth testing are Kheru Bloodsucker and Graveblade Marauder maybe forming a small sac-theme with Evolutionary Leap.
I don't think the Bloodsucker is fast enough, and we have no way of protecting him... I'd go for more Kin-Tree Invocation instead. Marauder looks solid tho, torn between Benthic Infiltrator and him.
Got dominated, as predicted. Problems are mostly number adjusting, but the deck has some glaring weaknesses that should be discussed.
- Fliers
- Swarms of midgame creatures
G1 Was lost to a combination of thopters and Wingmate Roc spam with Gideon emblem out. Without reach or mass removal, and losing the Formation to Dromoka's, I just took it in the face.
G2 Was a hand with all the right creatures, but no Assault Formation or Kin-Tree Invocation. Was hoping I'd draw into one and got greedy, which lost me the game again.
Abzan is a tough match in and of itself, but I still think with the correct numbers (increasing my Ass Formation count to 4, including 2 Languish) I would've had a better shot.
- I was very cocky thinking I could pull off the deck with only 2 Formations. putting a full set in as I don't think the others are dead draws, since they offer an additional layer of protection vs cards like Dromoka's Command. 4 Kin-Tree Invocation and 2 Assault Formation are not reliable enough.
- Deck needs more removal in one way or another. I got unlucky in my matches not drawing a single Mirror Mockery, but I think 1-2 more removal spells could help. Any thoughts on Grim Contest? Looks synergistic, but if it blows I could just go for the safe choice of Ruinous Path.
- I think deck benefits a lot from Languish and it should be included in the main. I'm personally going for a 2-of.
- Benthic Infiltrator Was the first card to go out in sideboards. Everytime I cast one down, I felt like I could be doing something better with my mana. Catacomb Sifter gives 2 blockers and mana accel, I lost many games locked on 5 mana and 6 mana finishers in hand.
- Main looks good vs aggro (continues to stomp landfall, would love to test vs Atarka Red), so I think I'll be cutting the Jaddi Offshoot. Maybe adding 2 more Aligned Hedron Network for a full set or something.
I think you can cut Lilly, as she has only 8 Creatures who can Flip her in your List.
Yeah, it started as a way to get recurring ETB effects, but you're right, there's no reliable way to flip her.
I would play Sultai Charm over Ultimate Price
Will do and see how it goes, scared about it being too many colors but love the flexibility.
and Foul Renewal over Reality Shift.
Hmmm... looks good on paper, I'll give it a shot.
I would also cut Oblivion Sower and ad something like Languish/Minister of Pain as swarming/token-builds seem to shape up as a big part of the coming meta (at least when taking the pro tour as a reference).
Talking about MB or SB?
My Current brew is Bant with a black splash, to ad Rhino, Silumgar and some removal:
Mirror Assault Formation
Basically, Kin-Tree Invocation and Mirror Mockery both go out. I liked the interactions the bounce cards provided, but once my opponent knew what I was going for they became lightning rods, and I would lose 2 for 1. Kin-Tree was too dependent on creatures, and with my low count (and we all know there aren't good enough high toughness creatures) it became a dead card most of the time.
My decision: to drop the gimmicks, and go full out on the Ass Formation plan, ending up with a list very similar to the first ones in the thread. I smoothed out the curve and straightened out the manabase, addding a bunch of library manipulation to fish for Ass. I slowed down the attack plan 1 turn (Faithful into Savants into Ass Formation, hit for 10 turn 3) in favor of having more mana diversity with taplands, more Ass protection with Duress/Dispel/Reclaim and generally a stronger midgame. The dream combo was nice, but how often were you going to line up the cards in your opening hand to deal the T3 10 damage?
Added Monastery Flock, since they fit nice into the curve and flyers were a BIG problem in testing.
So the golden question.
What happens when Assault Formation doesn't get drawn/is controlled?
You have different options:
- Draw another. The amount of card filtering in the deck can support it.
- Protect it, setup and play passive with your walls, and never play it without looking at their hand. You have 6 ways to look at their hand.
- Play a defensive game until either Silumgar shows up, and go for a late game clock. In this shell tho, Dragonlord Silumgar is particularly fragile, so I'm thinking of taking him out.
I saw a spanish/mexican deck builder used Phenax, God of Deception as an alternate wincon prerotation... it's a shame it got rotated out, and until we get more cards to support the strat or an alternate wincon via toughness, it's a difficult one to judge.
Regardless, I LOVE the deck. When it ticks, it ticks great. When it doesn't, my card draw availability and solid defense usually holds until Ass is drawn. I'll keep testing with it and report my success. Thing is, I don't like any of the top 8s that have come around (maybe Dark Jeskai?) so I'm stuck on fun brews for the moment.
Ok guys totally forget what i said about going four colors, its fine to play four colors, but you have to max out on Fetchlands and play a bigger Land Pool.
But if you do, you will get access to hilariously powerful Stuff:
Besides the known Combo-Shell with Mirror Mockery and Assault Formation this Deck goes simply all in on Siege Rhino playing virtually 8 Copys with Bring to Light.
With 8 Cards to bounce Rhino (Fauíthful and Baricade) and 4 more to Copy it, you can simply win just on Rhino Triggers alone, but if thats not enough, then you still have the Assault Formation Plan or Wingmate Roc with Mirror Mockery.
And then there is the possibilty to shift the Deck Completely into an Assault Version of Esper Dragons, with the Best Dragons, and Dragon-Spels Available to control the Game.
I love the ideas behind it, but I think you're trying to go on several directions. Why not commit to a 5-color Bring to Light deck that maximizes on Siege Rhino and copying it (not bouncing it, I think it loses you too much tempo) and has other interesting ETB creatures to go along with it? Cards like Clever Impersonator, Flamerush Rider (holy Jesus, dash copies), Flameshadow Conjuring, Supplant Form.
Legion of Rhinos.
And yes, I just searched all cards with the keyword "copy"
I played this deck for a few months off and on and I did not do well. Profaner underperformed and mirror mockery over performed. Profaner seems to me to be sideboard for tokens.Commune with the Gods rotating hurt the deck. Updraft elemental or plummet in the sideboard seems to be needed. Torrent elemental and the Silumgars do well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4x Tide Drifter
4x Monastery Flock
4x Dragon's Eye Savants
2x Profaner of the Dead
1x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
Spells: 15
2x Reality Shift
3x Ruinous Path
1x Dispel
2x Murderous Cut
3x Languish
4x Dig Through Time
4x Assault Formation
2x Sultai Ascendancy
Lands: 24
3x Lumbering Falls
3x Sunken Hollow
4x Polluted Delta
3x Opulent Palace
2x Yavimaya Coast
4x Island
2x Swamp
3x Forest
2x Glint
3x Jaddi Offshoot
3x Duress
2x Negate
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Orbs of Warding
1x Languish
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths
If you have any questions about the deck or card suggestions just leave a comment.
With 0 Mainboard counterspells, a 4 of Dromoka's command in an Azban build is going to run you over.
In the end it might just be better to run cards that can win the game without the formation but until I see how the meta shapes up I think playing defensive and controlling the board until DF comes down works out most of the time. And if not I have Silumgar and Lumbering Falls as a back up plan.
4 Jaddi Offshoot
4 Sidisi's Faithful
4 Dragon's Eye Savants
4 Graveblade Marauder
4 Monastery Flock
Spells:19
2 Shape the Sands
3 Anticipate
4 Assault Formation
4 Kin-Tree Invocation
4 Taigam's Scheming
2 Murderous Cut
2 Forest
3 Island
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Opulent Palace
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Dispel
4 Duress
2 Shape the Sands
2 Negate
2 Sultai Charm
3 Mizzium Meddler
Some interesting starts/interactions I have found so far include turn 1 Sidisi's Faithful into turn 2 Kin-Tree Invocation. Taigam's Scheming does a good job of feeding Graveblade Marauder and fueling Murderous Cut.
I guess with Kin-Tree Invocation you can have a 4/4 or 6/6 swinging in if you cant draw the formation.
1) counterspells. Cheap ones like negate and dispel should be fine
2) play other enchantments you can throw away if you get hit by a dcommand. sphinx's tutelage is an interesting option as an alt win condition so you don't totally rely on formation. "Removal" enchantments are also a great idea like singing bell strike that can help you stall till you start dropping win cons. mirror mockery might also be sweet too since it has dual applications; you can equip it to an opponents dude to stall or you can also equip it to your own dudes that have useful etb effects. sidisi, undead vizier is a personal favorite. Free tutors every turn!
Blue
Sidisi's Faithful - Good defensive opener, bounce spell or a 4/4 for 1 late game.
Dragon's Eye Savants - 0/6 for 2. Gotta love it.
Updraft Elemental - I like this card over Monastery Flock because it doesn't have defender. The main flyers in standard right now are Thopter Tokens, and Mantis Rider so the 1 loss in toughness isn't a dealbreaker.
Silumgar, Drifting Death - Late Game Finisher
Benthic Infiltrator - 4/4 Unblockable, yes please.
Monastery Siege - Pretty self explanatory.
Profaner of the Dead - Fits perfect in this deck. My only issue with this card is that in this format, bouncing the opponent's creatures could be a liability for instance if you are bouncing a Den Protector. It's main use would be to clear the way after you already have a board state, and want to go in for the alpha swing.
The main reason for blue though is that it is the only color that allows efficient searching for Assault Formation itself. Anticipate, and Monastery Siege. The other reason is the best protection through Dispel and Negate.
Black
Disowned Ancestor
Kin-Tree Invocation - IMO the main reason to go Black. Turn 2 4/4. Turn 3 6/6. Good beginning and late game with a low cost. Doesn't require Assault Formation.
Grim Contest - I only don't like this card a lot because it requires you to have a creature out. Instant speed is the key here.
Duress/Despise - Sideboard cards against control. Could maybe have a few main deck but I think going the route of Counters or Multiple Enchantments is more efficient.
Foul Renewal - Expensive and requires a creature in the graveyard. Getting a creature back and removal at instant speed is pretty nice though.
Red
Crater Elemental - The best 0/6 outside of Dragon's Eye Savants. Easy to cast, and has built in removal. We'd likely never get to use the Formidable ability. I mainly liked it as an option to use Fruit of the First Tree as easy card draw. 6 Cards and 6 Life for 3GR.
Radiant Flames - One of the better reasons to go red. This is the cheapest mass removal right now, and it goes right under our creatures. Great way to clear out an overwhelming board state even with all of our defenders.
Break Through The Line - Janky, but if we go the multiple enchantment route, it could be a way to lock up the game. The way Assault Formation works this card reads: R: Target creature has haste and Unblockable. It turns all of our 1 and 2 drop creatures into quick hasty beats. Downside is it only really works well with Assault Formation out.
White
Orator of Ojutai - Mainly just like it as a quick flying blocker outside of Monastery Flock or Updraft Elemental. If you're into White then synergy with Dragonlord Ojutai and Dragonlord Dromoka is there for card draw.
Brave the Sands - Really a win more versus Atarka and Weenie Strategies.
Silkwrap/Stasis Snare/Quarantine Field/Citadel Siege - The main reason for white would be either as a very light splash or for a mass enchantment removal package. White doesn't seem to give us too much outside of this.
Honorable mentions to Jeskai Barricade, and Dragon's Eye Sentry
More Green
Become Immense - We could go the Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage tricks way of recent Atarka as a backup to Assault Formation.
Shape the Sands - Better than Become Immense but only if we have Assault Formation out. Our weakness when Formation isn't out is already there, I don't want to make it worse.
Herald of the Pantheon - If we go the Multiple Enchantment Route.
Fruit of the First Tree - Another janky idea, but the possible life gain and draw we could get from this card is huge.
Abzan Beastmaster - I'm not the biggest fan but it is card advantage outside of blue that would basically be free to us. It'd be a major target for removal, but doesn't do much other than that. Overall I think Monastery Siege is a better option.
I apologize for kind of hijacking the thread but it isn't often other people show interest in an Assault Formation deck.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Yup! Fun to play, viability remains to be assessed. Our lists relied a little more on Exploit and less on Ass Formation though, and it feels nearly there... may need another good finisher. My list:
2x Benthic Infiltrator
4x Blisterpod
3x Catacomb Sifter
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
2x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2x Oblivion Sower
2x Profaner of the Dead
2x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4x Sidisi's Faithful
1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
2x Smothering Abomination
Sorcery (2)
2x Bone Splinters
2x Forest
2x Island
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Lumbering Falls
2x Opulent Palace
4x Polluted Delta
1x Rogue's Passage
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Assault Formation
4x Mirror Mockery
Instant (4)
2x Dispel
2x Reality Shift
2x Aligned Hedron Network
4x Ghostfire Blade
3x Infinite Obliteration
2x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Minister of Pain
2x Wasteland Strangler
Deck did well vs R/G Landfall, but as the rest of you stated... main problem is Abzan. Hence the last minute dispels.
Yeah, you're right, I actually went and looked it up right after I posted it to see how wrong I was lol, oh well. Like you said though there's still a lot of interesting things you can do here with both of those cards so it's probably still worth giving both of them a look. Attaching it onto a rakshasa gravecaller for instance gives you two free zombies every turn when you swing!
4x Sidisi's Faithful
4x Dragon's Eye Savants
3x Benthic Infiltrator
2x Profaner of the Dead
2x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2x Oblivion Sower
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Liliana, Heretical Healer
Sorcery (4)
4x Kin-Tree Invocation
Instant (6)
2x Reality Shift
2x Ultimate Price
2x Murderous Cut
Enchantment (6)
2x Assault Formation
4x Mirror Mockery
2x Opulent Palace
4x Llanowar Wastes
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Lumbering Falls
2x Sunken Hollow
1x Rogue's Passage
4x Polluted Delta
3x Swamp
3x Island
3x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Dispel
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Minister of Pain
3x Infinite Obliteration
2x Aligned Hedron Network
1x Gaea's Revenge
1x Hangarback Walker
1x Qarsi Sadist
1x Tide Drifter
1x Negate
I think the colors are set on Sultai. Blue and Black have great toughness creatures and synergies between them, grant access to 2 good defensive dragons and an awesome control toolbox.
As discussed before, deck's main weakness is Dromoka's Command. To offset this, I've pushed Kin-Tree Invocation to a 4-of to provide additional midgame contenders, and the control combos with the bouncers + Mirror Mockery + their good toughness should take care of the early game. Also added Dispel and Disdainful Stroke/Negate in the sideboard for Abzan.
I don't think that's a good idea. What you're basically doing is redirecting a spell that would kill a toughness 3 or less creature to this guy so he could survive it, right? The lists usually don't run -3 toughness creatures, so anything that was going to kill our creatures to begin with, will kill this guy as well. Counterspells are more efficient and versatile in my opinion, not to mention if we want to cast on curve having 3 floating mana will be tough.
I did consider that! problem is, he can't swing reliably in my opinion, so the most you'll get out of 4B and 1U is 4 zombies (while wasting 3 cards), since he'll only swing once if you get lucky. Of course if you're steamrolling and can have the board setup by then it's "cool", but I wouldn't call him viable. Both enchanted Sidisi's Faithful and Profaner of the Dead can attack more safely because they're removing blockers out of the equation.
I just think Sidisi, Undead Vizier is a much better 5 mana option. It gives you a wall with deathtouch and fishes a finisher for the next turn.
Would really appreciate comments on the Exploit variant. Also considering splashing for Siege Rhino, since it wouldd have great synergy with Mirror Mockery.
Maybe rename it to U/G/X Assault Formation?
Yeah, how would we go about doing that? if it's as easy as just starting a new thread, I can take care of it as well. I already have a template written.
Yeah, counterspells are there for control matchups mainly. Decks with additional enchantments should be ok vs Dromoka's, but we have some lists here that rely on it as a sole wincon.
Yeah, I'd have to test him to be sold on it... I prefer Benthic Infiltrator personally, but playing T3 reactively could throw your opponent off guard.
Well, I got Minister of Pain in the sideboard, I think she could be good for swarming strats. I'll try to splash for Siege Rhino and see if it doesn't screw up the mana too much.
That sounds sweet! I'll be doing more testing tomorrow, so tomorrow night is probably when it'll be posted. I don't want to post a primer for something that hasn't been tested vs at least 3 decks.
Looks good, but I might have problems putting it in... I wouldn't know what to cut.
Could try it as a sideboard option.
I don't think the Bloodsucker is fast enough, and we have no way of protecting him... I'd go for more Kin-Tree Invocation instead. Marauder looks solid tho, torn between Benthic Infiltrator and him.
VS Abzan Aggro (0-2):
2 Den Protector
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
3 Hangarback Walker
2 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spells (10)
4 Abzan Charm
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Ruinous Path
1 Valorous Stance
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Shambling Vent
4 Windswept Heath
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Caves of Koilos
1 Canopy Vista
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Evolving Wilds
3 Tragic Arrogance
2 Ultimate Price
1 Valorous Stance
3 Duress
1 Den Protector
2 Arashin Cleric
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Got dominated, as predicted. Problems are mostly number adjusting, but the deck has some glaring weaknesses that should be discussed.
- Fliers
- Swarms of midgame creatures
G1 Was lost to a combination of thopters and Wingmate Roc spam with Gideon emblem out. Without reach or mass removal, and losing the Formation to Dromoka's, I just took it in the face.
G2 Was a hand with all the right creatures, but no Assault Formation or Kin-Tree Invocation. Was hoping I'd draw into one and got greedy, which lost me the game again.
Abzan is a tough match in and of itself, but I still think with the correct numbers (increasing my Ass Formation count to 4, including 2 Languish) I would've had a better shot.
VS Monogreen Eldrazi (0-2)
G1 Was just sad. Got greedy with hand again (5 lands, Sidisi's Faithful Dragon's Eye Savants, Kin-Tree Invocation) and put out decent aggro. Deck flooded and it was done.
G2 Was a little bit better. 2 Dragon's Eye Savants in hand with an Assault Formation. He then drew Naturalize and the party was over, mainly because I knew that with only 2 Formations in deck there was no way I would draw it in time.
CONCLUSIONS:
- I was very cocky thinking I could pull off the deck with only 2 Formations. putting a full set in as I don't think the others are dead draws, since they offer an additional layer of protection vs cards like Dromoka's Command. 4 Kin-Tree Invocation and 2 Assault Formation are not reliable enough.
- Deck needs more removal in one way or another. I got unlucky in my matches not drawing a single Mirror Mockery, but I think 1-2 more removal spells could help. Any thoughts on Grim Contest? Looks synergistic, but if it blows I could just go for the safe choice of Ruinous Path.
- I think deck benefits a lot from Languish and it should be included in the main. I'm personally going for a 2-of.
- Benthic Infiltrator Was the first card to go out in sideboards. Everytime I cast one down, I felt like I could be doing something better with my mana. Catacomb Sifter gives 2 blockers and mana accel, I lost many games locked on 5 mana and 6 mana finishers in hand.
- Main looks good vs aggro (continues to stomp landfall, would love to test vs Atarka Red), so I think I'll be cutting the Jaddi Offshoot. Maybe adding 2 more Aligned Hedron Network for a full set or something.
Yeah, it started as a way to get recurring ETB effects, but you're right, there's no reliable way to flip her.
Will do and see how it goes, scared about it being too many colors but love the flexibility.
Hmmm... looks good on paper, I'll give it a shot.
Talking about MB or SB?
As for this list, why not go all out on Rhinos? only 2 seems like you're losing a lot of value. Hell, I'd even cut 2 Faithfuls for it.
1x Dragonlord Silumgar
4x Dragon's Eye Savants
2x Monastery Flock
2x Profaner of the Dead
2x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4x Sidisi's Faithful
1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
Sorcery (6)
2x Duress
2x Languish
2x Read the Bones
Instant (8)
4x Anticipate
1x Dig Through Time
3x Grim Contest
4x Assault Formation
Land (26)
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Canopy Vista
2x Cinder Glade
2x Flooded Strand
2x Island
2x Lumbering Falls
4x Opulent Palace
4x Polluted Delta
1x Rogue's Passage
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
2x Aligned Hedron Network
3x Disdainful Stroke
1x Gaea's Revenge
4x Infinite Obliteration
2x Minister of Pain
3x Shape the Sands
Basically, Kin-Tree Invocation and Mirror Mockery both go out. I liked the interactions the bounce cards provided, but once my opponent knew what I was going for they became lightning rods, and I would lose 2 for 1. Kin-Tree was too dependent on creatures, and with my low count (and we all know there aren't good enough high toughness creatures) it became a dead card most of the time.
My decision: to drop the gimmicks, and go full out on the Ass Formation plan, ending up with a list very similar to the first ones in the thread. I smoothed out the curve and straightened out the manabase, addding a bunch of library manipulation to fish for Ass. I slowed down the attack plan 1 turn (Faithful into Savants into Ass Formation, hit for 10 turn 3) in favor of having more mana diversity with taplands, more Ass protection with Duress/Dispel/Reclaim and generally a stronger midgame. The dream combo was nice, but how often were you going to line up the cards in your opening hand to deal the T3 10 damage?
Added Monastery Flock, since they fit nice into the curve and flyers were a BIG problem in testing.
So the golden question.
You have different options:
- Draw another. The amount of card filtering in the deck can support it.
- Protect it, setup and play passive with your walls, and never play it without looking at their hand. You have 6 ways to look at their hand.
- Play a defensive game until either Silumgar shows up, and go for a late game clock. In this shell tho, Dragonlord Silumgar is particularly fragile, so I'm thinking of taking him out.
I saw a spanish/mexican deck builder used Phenax, God of Deception as an alternate wincon prerotation... it's a shame it got rotated out, and until we get more cards to support the strat or an alternate wincon via toughness, it's a difficult one to judge.
Regardless, I LOVE the deck. When it ticks, it ticks great. When it doesn't, my card draw availability and solid defense usually holds until Ass is drawn. I'll keep testing with it and report my success. Thing is, I don't like any of the top 8s that have come around (maybe Dark Jeskai?) so I'm stuck on fun brews for the moment.
I love the ideas behind it, but I think you're trying to go on several directions. Why not commit to a 5-color Bring to Light deck that maximizes on Siege Rhino and copying it (not bouncing it, I think it loses you too much tempo) and has other interesting ETB creatures to go along with it? Cards like Clever Impersonator, Flamerush Rider (holy Jesus, dash copies), Flameshadow Conjuring, Supplant Form.
Legion of Rhinos.
And yes, I just searched all cards with the keyword "copy"