Trying to figure out why people play Transgress the mind over Despise/Duress? What more than 3 mana card are you planning on losing to that isn't already a creature or a planeswalker? Duress obviously worse than despise if you're worried about creatures but yeah.
transgress exiles the card. there are a number of 3+ cards that you want to get rid of, but don't want to go into the bin. deathmist raptor, pretty much everything in BWx allies. It's also one less card in the bin for delve. Basically, against anything that can use what's in the graveyard as a resource, the exile effect is worth a little more.
Liliana, Heretical Healer: I'm still not convinced. on the first glance she seems to synergize pretty well with the rest of the deck but she's just decent til now. Maybe I should go back up to 2 and test her more. For now I'll keep her
I have gotten a lot of value out of her so far. I think that might have more to do with the evolutionary leaps in my deck, but most of the time I just minus her for cutthroat or something else until she dies.
I really like her at two, but your build is significantly different than mine
Oh, I would also suggest dutiful attendant as a one of. Fits with coco, has a useful trigger, and blocks stuff with out caring
I have made a few changes sense I last posted my list, so I will post an update as soon as I get a chance.
The sideboard is still untested because I missed fnm
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
Yes, I've been thinking RWBG Aristocrats with Abzan Ascendancy is the way to go with this. I'd love to stick on just mardu colors, but the 4 color manabase is actually better than 3 color now, and Abzan Ascendancy is what my deck needs to push it over the top IMO and works KIND OF as a replacement for lingering souls. Also gives blisterpod aka Doomed Traveler Jr. I will try to make my deck 4 color and will use your manabase for it. Will post my list up when I do!
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
Butcher *and* Husk seems like too much. Do you get clogged with them? You will certainly draw awkward hands with that many sac dudes I imagine.
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
Butcher *and* Husk seems like too much. Do you get clogged with them? You will certainly draw awkward hands with that many sac dudes I imagine.
I run both and it's great to have them. Many people are cutting husk and saying he sucks-he is one of the best creatures in the deck and an engine.
Remember, you have to respect your opponent. Things don't always work magical christmas land how you want them too. Sometimes you don't draw Butchers and all of them are at the bottom of your deck-where is your sack outlet? Sometimes you play butcher and he eats removal instantly. You can't just expect to draw butcher and cutthroat every game. The old aristocrats deck had atleast 8 free sac outlets, and it makes sense to play the same in the new version.
Nantuko Husk is great in this deck. He is a 3 drop who can win games quickly.
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
I see the deck has prairie stream, meaning you can get blue mana too. Do you think the manabase would be able to support 1-2 copies of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant?
As great as Blisterpod is, the biggest bonus of adding Green I Evolutionary Leap. There's nothing better than responding to an opponent's Abzan Charm than saccing it to the Leap allowing you to get Thopter tokens (and maybe Spirit tokens too) plus a free creature to your hand.
New to the thread, someone please give me the TL;DR version as it applies to Golgari Aristocrats?
I haven't played for about a month, and was completely clueless as to how BFZ even played, so I bought the event deck. "OMG, look at this value" So I bought a second event deck, and shoved the two together in some form of 75 cards. It did "OK" at FNM this weekend, going 2-2. Yet that was 2 wins against home brews, and two losses against well tuned decks full of money cards.
I lack a playtest group at the moment, any insight would be of course appreciated.
I'm sure I'm not the first to find this but I havnt seen it posted anywhere so I figured I'd share. I was doing some testing today and I found a pretty easy infinite combo.
Need to have a cutthroat and free sac outlet down. Husk being cheapest. Then liliana. Play second Lily to kill first and flip the other creating token. Then -3 to get other Lily back from yard. Pw version dies. Then sac token to flip Lily making another token and repeat.
May not be worded the best but you get the idea.
Have you ever actually read Lilly?
Indeed I have. Not sure why my brain didn't want to work. I was at work and it just popped in my head.
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
I see the deck has prairie stream, meaning you can get blue mana too. Do you think the manabase would be able to support 1-2 copies of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant?
I was running the Prairie Stream mainly because I didn't have a second Canopy Vista, but I acquired one today. I suppose it's worth testing with Sidisi, but I don't know if she adds enough value herself. I'm just afraid she will mill a Cutthroat or sac outlet and leave me high and dry. If I were to run a Sidisi it would probably be Undead Vizier because it sacrifices and tutors.
I am fully willing to admit I could be wrong, though.
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
Butcher *and* Husk seems like too much. Do you get clogged with them? You will certainly draw awkward hands with that many sac dudes I imagine.
I run both and it's great to have them. Many people are cutting husk and saying he sucks-he is one of the best creatures in the deck and an engine.
Remember, you have to respect your opponent. Things don't always work magical christmas land how you want them too. Sometimes you don't draw Butchers and all of them are at the bottom of your deck-where is your sack outlet? Sometimes you play butcher and he eats removal instantly. You can't just expect to draw butcher and cutthroat every game. The old aristocrats deck had atleast 8 free sac outlets, and it makes sense to play the same in the new version.
Nantuko Husk is great in this deck. He is a 3 drop who can win games quickly.
Nailed it. Husk seems to eat removal immediately in my meta, so it eating a Murderous Cut makes it easier for a Butcher to stick around.
It seems that my main sac outlet has trended toward Evolutionary Leap since there's much less Enchantment removal (outside of Dromoka's Command) than creature removal.
The Abzan version was just missing the 1-2 punch of Abzan Ascendancy and Butcher of the Horde so now we have the best of both worlds, being able to grind out a long game, or burst them down with a Butcher and Nantuko.
The Abzan version was just missing the 1-2 punch of Abzan Ascendancy and Butcher of the Horde so now we have the best of both worlds, being able to grind out a long game, or burst them down with a Butcher and Nantuko.
How has Smothering Abomination worked for you? In my testing the BB in its mana cost was sometimes harder to hit than straight four colors.
The Abzan version was just missing the 1-2 punch of Abzan Ascendancy and Butcher of the Horde so now we have the best of both worlds, being able to grind out a long game, or burst them down with a Butcher and Nantuko.
How has Smothering Abomination worked for you? In my testing the BB in its mana cost was sometimes harder to hit than straight four colors.
With twelve sources of black I usually find myself with double black by turn 4, about 75% of the time I would say. Smothering is also a card that does not need to be played on curve and sometimes is a card you just want to hold on to until you have 3-4 sac fodder on the field.
The Abzan version was just missing the 1-2 punch of Abzan Ascendancy and Butcher of the Horde so now we have the best of both worlds, being able to grind out a long game, or burst them down with a Butcher and Nantuko.
How has Smothering Abomination worked for you? In my testing the BB in its mana cost was sometimes harder to hit than straight four colors.
With twelve sources of black I usually find myself with double black by turn 4, about 75% of the time I would say. Smothering is also a card that does not need to be played on curve and sometimes is a card you just want to hold on to until you have 3-4 sac fodder on the field.
I think it may be worth trying in my build, though I'd be hard pressed to choose what to cut. Maybe a Husk.
Thoughts? Seems pretty basic to me. Maybe that's where we should be, or at least start from?
I haven't been a fan of Fleshbag Marauder or Liliana in my testing. I'm interested in seeing other builds as they come in. I truly think that this deck needs to me at least three colors for Abzan Ascendancy.
The deck can be very explosive, a single Zulaport Cutthroat can turn a clogged board into 20+ damage. Nantuko Husk can also get large enough to kill an unaware opponent from most reasonable life totals (i killed an opponent from 17 I believe on turn 4 or 5 last fnm), though anyone who's played against this deck before knows to throw a blocker in front of it or threaten removal to avoid said situation. Most of the time the deck wins by generating enough critical mass to kill the opponent with Zulaport Cutthroat triggers.
As for weaknesses: multiple flyers, especially Mantis Riders, can be a problem if you cant cobble together some combination of sac outlet + Hangarback Walker or Abzan Ascendancy. Lifegain and low cost sweepers (Radiant Flames) can sometimes be problematic but can usually be fought through (especially if your opponent doesn't have a fast clock on you as well). Really, the decks only glaring weakness is to Anafenza, the Foremost, who shuts down all of your death triggers and generally turns the deck into a pile of trash. If my meta was heavy Abzan aggro I would likely consider putting some Abzan Charms or Bone Splinters mainboard. Virulent Plague and Hallowed Moonlight could also be problematic if people choose to include them in their sideboards (though notably plague doesnt stop tokens from generating Zulaport triggers).
The Sideboard is very thrown together. I havent yet figured out what cards are worth justifying cutting my mainboard synergies for to deal with opposing decks (plus the meta hasnt fully materialized yet). Most rounds I didn't bother sideboarding much, and even when I did it didnt really feel like the cards were pulling more weight than what i was cutting for them mainboard. Sorin, Solemn Visitor was the only card that I felt really pulled its weight (enough that i have considered adding them mainboard).
Anyhow, if you have any questions, comments or suggestions feel free to post them and ill respond.
The deck can be very explosive, a single Zulaport Cutthroat can turn a clogged board into 20+ damage. Nantuko Husk can also get large enough to kill an unaware opponent from most reasonable life totals (i killed an opponent from 17 I believe on turn 4 or 5 last fnm), though anyone who's played against this deck before knows to throw a blocker in front of it or threaten removal to avoid said situation. Most of the time the deck wins by generating enough critical mass to kill the opponent with Zulaport Cutthroat triggers.
As for weaknesses: multiple flyers, especially Mantis Riders, can be a problem if you cant cobble together some combination of sac outlet + Hangarback Walker or Abzan Ascendancy. Lifegain and low cost sweepers (Radiant Flames) can sometimes be problematic but can usually be fought through (especially if your opponent doesn't have a fast clock on you as well). Really, the decks only glaring weakness is to Anafenza, the Foremost, who shuts down all of your death triggers and generally turns the deck into a pile of trash. If my meta was heavy Abzan aggro I would likely consider putting some Abzan Charms or Bone Splinters mainboard. Virulent Plague and Hallowed Moonlight could also be problematic if people choose to include them in their sideboards (though notably plague doesnt stop tokens from generating Zulaport triggers).
The Sideboard is very thrown together. I havent yet figured out what cards are worth justifying cutting my mainboard synergies for to deal with opposing decks (plus the meta hasnt fully materialized yet). Most rounds I didn't bother sideboarding much, and even when I did it didnt really feel like the cards were pulling more weight than what i was cutting for them mainboard. Sorin, Solemn Visitor was the only card that I felt really pulled its weight (enough that i have considered adding them mainboard).
Anyhow, if you have any questions, comments or suggestions feel free to post them and ill respond.
seems a bit weak to a t3 anafenza. Abzan aggro is big in my meta so much so that I now run 4 abzan charms main deck.
Thoughts? Seems pretty basic to me. Maybe that's where we should be, or at least start from?
A a proponent of the BG build, I'm happy that there is at least a small showing of the deck.
Here's a question, why not use something like Titanic Growth or Become Immense to speed things up? Either one of those greatly increases the relevance of the scions.
Thoughts? Seems pretty basic to me. Maybe that's where we should be, or at least start from?
Seems like a simple-but-effective list; no Deathmist/Den Protector shenanigans, no Rally, just a straightforward Aristocrats list. Even if the 4-color lists are better now (not necessarily saying they are, though), this list survives rotation very well as there will most likely be a G/B manland in Oath at worst and potentially a fetch in the post-BFZ block at best, losing only Grim Haruspex and Jungle Hollows.
Pity there apparently wasn't a feature match with this list.
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transgress exiles the card. there are a number of 3+ cards that you want to get rid of, but don't want to go into the bin. deathmist raptor, pretty much everything in BWx allies. It's also one less card in the bin for delve. Basically, against anything that can use what's in the graveyard as a resource, the exile effect is worth a little more.
I have gotten a lot of value out of her so far. I think that might have more to do with the evolutionary leaps in my deck, but most of the time I just minus her for cutthroat or something else until she dies.
I really like her at two, but your build is significantly different than mine
Oh, I would also suggest dutiful attendant as a one of. Fits with coco, has a useful trigger, and blocks stuff with out caring
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
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The sideboard is still untested because I missed fnm
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
Pm me for details
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Prairie Stream
1 Smoldering Marsh
4 Swamp
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Blisterpod
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Butcher of the Horde
4 Carrier Thrall
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Nantuko Husk
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
Instants
2 Abzan Charm
Sorceries
2 Bone Splinters
Enchantments
4 Abzan Ascendency
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Arashin Cleric
2 Felidar Cub
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Mardu Charm
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Surge of Righteousness
2 Ultimate Price
First and foremost, the mana in this deck is INCREDIBLE. I never found myself wanting for a missing color of mana. I also must encourage running a full four Abzan Ascendancy. The value created by this card is bonkers. If you have multiple copies out it's even better.
Butcher *and* Husk seems like too much. Do you get clogged with them? You will certainly draw awkward hands with that many sac dudes I imagine.
I run both and it's great to have them. Many people are cutting husk and saying he sucks-he is one of the best creatures in the deck and an engine.
Remember, you have to respect your opponent. Things don't always work magical christmas land how you want them too. Sometimes you don't draw Butchers and all of them are at the bottom of your deck-where is your sack outlet? Sometimes you play butcher and he eats removal instantly. You can't just expect to draw butcher and cutthroat every game. The old aristocrats deck had atleast 8 free sac outlets, and it makes sense to play the same in the new version.
Nantuko Husk is great in this deck. He is a 3 drop who can win games quickly.
I see the deck has prairie stream, meaning you can get blue mana too. Do you think the manabase would be able to support 1-2 copies of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant?
I haven't played for about a month, and was completely clueless as to how BFZ even played, so I bought the event deck. "OMG, look at this value" So I bought a second event deck, and shoved the two together in some form of 75 cards. It did "OK" at FNM this weekend, going 2-2. Yet that was 2 wins against home brews, and two losses against well tuned decks full of money cards.
I lack a playtest group at the moment, any insight would be of course appreciated.
Indeed I have. Not sure why my brain didn't want to work. I was at work and it just popped in my head.
I was running the Prairie Stream mainly because I didn't have a second Canopy Vista, but I acquired one today. I suppose it's worth testing with Sidisi, but I don't know if she adds enough value herself. I'm just afraid she will mill a Cutthroat or sac outlet and leave me high and dry. If I were to run a Sidisi it would probably be Undead Vizier because it sacrifices and tutors.
I am fully willing to admit I could be wrong, though.
Nailed it. Husk seems to eat removal immediately in my meta, so it eating a Murderous Cut makes it easier for a Butcher to stick around.
It seems that my main sac outlet has trended toward Evolutionary Leap since there's much less Enchantment removal (outside of Dromoka's Command) than creature removal.
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
Pm me for details
4 Blisterpod
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Sultai Emissary
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Grim Haruspex
3 Catacomb Sifter
2 Nantuko Husk
4 Butcher of the Horde
2 Smothering Abomination
Instants:5
2 Murderous Cut
3 Abzan Charm
Enchantments:5
1 Evolutionary Leap
4 Abzan Ascendancy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Canopy Vista
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Cinder Glade
2 Llanowar Wastes
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Surge of Righteousness
2 Outpost Siege
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Evolutionary Leap
2 Infinite Obliteration
3 Crackling Doom
The Abzan version was just missing the 1-2 punch of Abzan Ascendancy and Butcher of the Horde so now we have the best of both worlds, being able to grind out a long game, or burst them down with a Butcher and Nantuko.
How has Smothering Abomination worked for you? In my testing the BB in its mana cost was sometimes harder to hit than straight four colors.
With twelve sources of black I usually find myself with double black by turn 4, about 75% of the time I would say. Smothering is also a card that does not need to be played on curve and sometimes is a card you just want to hold on to until you have 3-4 sac fodder on the field.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92651
Thoughts? Seems pretty basic to me. Maybe that's where we should be, or at least start from?
I think it may be worth trying in my build, though I'd be hard pressed to choose what to cut. Maybe a Husk.
I haven't been a fan of Fleshbag Marauder or Liliana in my testing. I'm interested in seeing other builds as they come in. I truly think that this deck needs to me at least three colors for Abzan Ascendancy.
4 Nantuko Husk
4 Catacomb Sifter
3 Grim Haruspex
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Sultai Emissary
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Blisterpod
Spells (11)
4 Abzan Ascendancy
1 Evolutionary Leap
4 Collected company
2 Rally the Ancestors
4 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
2 Forest
3 Shambling Vent
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Dromoka's Command
1 Evolutionary Leap
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Arashin Cleric
3 Abzan Charm
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
The deck can be very explosive, a single Zulaport Cutthroat can turn a clogged board into 20+ damage. Nantuko Husk can also get large enough to kill an unaware opponent from most reasonable life totals (i killed an opponent from 17 I believe on turn 4 or 5 last fnm), though anyone who's played against this deck before knows to throw a blocker in front of it or threaten removal to avoid said situation. Most of the time the deck wins by generating enough critical mass to kill the opponent with Zulaport Cutthroat triggers.
As for weaknesses: multiple flyers, especially Mantis Riders, can be a problem if you cant cobble together some combination of sac outlet + Hangarback Walker or Abzan Ascendancy. Lifegain and low cost sweepers (Radiant Flames) can sometimes be problematic but can usually be fought through (especially if your opponent doesn't have a fast clock on you as well). Really, the decks only glaring weakness is to Anafenza, the Foremost, who shuts down all of your death triggers and generally turns the deck into a pile of trash. If my meta was heavy Abzan aggro I would likely consider putting some Abzan Charms or Bone Splinters mainboard. Virulent Plague and Hallowed Moonlight could also be problematic if people choose to include them in their sideboards (though notably plague doesnt stop tokens from generating Zulaport triggers).
The Sideboard is very thrown together. I havent yet figured out what cards are worth justifying cutting my mainboard synergies for to deal with opposing decks (plus the meta hasnt fully materialized yet). Most rounds I didn't bother sideboarding much, and even when I did it didnt really feel like the cards were pulling more weight than what i was cutting for them mainboard. Sorin, Solemn Visitor was the only card that I felt really pulled its weight (enough that i have considered adding them mainboard).
Anyhow, if you have any questions, comments or suggestions feel free to post them and ill respond.
seems a bit weak to a t3 anafenza. Abzan aggro is big in my meta so much so that I now run 4 abzan charms main deck.
A a proponent of the BG build, I'm happy that there is at least a small showing of the deck.
Here's a question, why not use something like Titanic Growth or Become Immense to speed things up? Either one of those greatly increases the relevance of the scions.
Seems like a simple-but-effective list; no Deathmist/Den Protector shenanigans, no Rally, just a straightforward Aristocrats list. Even if the 4-color lists are better now (not necessarily saying they are, though), this list survives rotation very well as there will most likely be a G/B manland in Oath at worst and potentially a fetch in the post-BFZ block at best, losing only Grim Haruspex and Jungle Hollows.
Pity there apparently wasn't a feature match with this list.