I hate this set but will still go to the prerelease and a few drafts in hope of getting the good lands. Everything else in the set seems pretty garbage apart from the new 3 mana vampire legend. Magic is cardboard crack and Wizards of the Coast knows it. As much as we all say we hate this set, most of us will still buy a lot of it.
Basically, going Grixis pushes a more, I wouldn't say aggro, but "faster-midrange" type deck that would interact with exile a fair bit. Meanwhile, going Sultai makes for a "slower-midrange" ramp deck that would mostly ramp into some of the bigger eldrazi. I'll playtest both and see where that gets me.
This will be remembered as the most overhyped set ever. These cards are bad, Theros bad, wizards is taking magic in a completely different direction where everything is a midrange deck and there won't be any tier 1 synergies.
Given that it's the first of a set, that may be a little hasty. It's definitely underwhelming, that's not a lie. We have Cosi's Ravager's smarter little brother, and a weak, green Steppe Lynx. There's definitely some synergies that can be created. And given that we've had 2 days to really look over an analyze the set, I'm certain things will be looked over. There's some decent viability in playing a consistent Ally deck in Mardu colors since the costs of both removal and the creatures are low as well as a combo in Kalastria Healer (saccing and doubling the effect with Zulaport Cutthroat) and March from the Tomb.
Admittedly, we don't have a Lotus Cobra or Searing Blaze for landfall, but the Allies are actually synergistic and seem viable instead of just random effects on fragile little bodies. None of the Landfall effects outside of the Enchantment cycle are specifically awful on anything that seems competitively playable.
Underwhelming, yes; Bad, no. We'll be retaining Khans for a while, and a lot of that power will remain, it also tends to be Strong set-Weak set in my experience.
This will be remembered as the most overhyped set ever. These cards are bad, Theros bad, wizards is taking magic in a completely different direction where everything is a midrange deck and there won't be any tier 1 synergies.
I don't know what you talking about man. This set makes standard a brewer's paradise. Not only do the lands push you in multiple directions (shard with fetches/battlelands, wedge with manlands, 2 color with spell/utility lands, or 4/5 color insanity). But there's like 5 different ways to build an eldrazi deck (agro, midrange, ramp, control, tempo), there's a blood artist in here which is nuts with rally the ancestors, there's 3 strong walkers, control cards that double as win-cons, and strong edh cards. There's also a few things they don't normally do like colorless colored cards that get around protection, x cost creatures that give you power equal to x, a playable flametoungue kavu-eque creature and a land that taps for 2.
This set isn't the most powerful set or anything, khans is probably a stronger set, but it's a lot better than theros. It might get out shined for awhile, but I think this set will have a huge impact during it's standard run.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
This will be remembered as the most overhyped set ever. These cards are bad, Theros bad, wizards is taking magic in a completely different direction where everything is a midrange deck and there won't be any tier 1 synergies.
Yep.
The Eldrazi and Ally decks are doomed to become tier 2 trash and goodstuff.dec is going to dominate.
I'm willing to bet GBx will be the best deck by far. Either Abzan or Sultai. Maybe even splashing a 4th color that isn't red.
Talk about nerfing red by taking away Stormbreath Dragon and giving them nothing to replace it. Dragonlord Ojutai is the best replacement and you don't need red for that.
@IronPlushy Well, to be fair it can't be "overhyped" since there is zero hype and everyone everywhere is already saying it's terrible. There's no hype to fail to live up to, haha.
@Aether7, yes, Hangarback is easily the best card in standard already, and that's only going to become more true.
I haven't scoured everything, but my favourite cards so far are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, From Beyond, Bring to Light and Kiora, Master of the Depths. I don't usually play in green so it should be fun for me to switch it up. I've already started playing with a really wonky, super fun ramp deck with flip-Nissa, Ugin and The great aurora. It's surprisingly great (though not tier 1). Turns out Hangarback tokens all become cards when you cast aurora.
For the record, I really like this set and the direction it's going. Yeah blabla low power level, but who cares. Power is relative.
I do have some critical thoughts about BFZ though:
-The new counterspell Scatter to the winds is... very very bad. Especially since there are so many amazing counterspells in Khans (scorn, d-stroke) It will obviously see play in stock UB mono-counterspell decks, as will the horrendous new version of hero's downfall, Ruinous Path. That thing stinks so bad I can smell it off my computer screen. But that brings me to my main point, which is that removal is getting a LOT worse, and I'm actually not sure I think that's a bad thing... yet. End Hostilities is going to be patently bonkers now that there kinda aren't any other efficient ways to kill creatures.
-The Awaken mechanic is lazy design and overcosted. I guess the intention is that control decks just stop playing threats and only use manlands and awaken to win. I dunno, seems poopy.
-The fetchable duals (please god tell me we're not going to keep calling them tangolands) are going to be, by FAR, the best cards in the set. 4-colour is totally going to be a thing. And though they only printed one playable landfall card, they'll print more in coming sets.
-Sorry everyone, but red is not a playable colour anymore. Just don't bother trying.
-The allys are boring. I'm sure they'll be fine and playable as a tribe or whatever, but there just aren't any that are like "wooooahhhh!!!" They really needed to print one mythic ally that does something as bonkers as what Ulamog does. Like 6 mana and when allies attack they each destroy a permanent or something. What's the big payoff? As it stands they're basically just slivers. (again, end hostilities is going to be a defining card of the new standard)
-Though it's not a good card, I really like the idea behind Halimar Tidecaller. "Land creatures you control". So lands are a tribe now, with lords and everything. Watch that space in future sets...
-I wish they wouldn't print cards like Ob Nixilis Reignited. It's just not interesting. It's the most yawn-inducing of the many derivatives of Necropotence. Like, what's next? A blue planeswalker that says +1 tap target creature, -1 draw a card, -5 draw 3 cards? A red one that says "+1 deals a damage, -1 make a goblin, -5 make a dragon? Sheeeeeeeeesh.
-Oracle of Dust is super silly. Like what's that eldrazi doing chilling by the river playing with Voodoo dolls!? These are monstrous inter-dimensional terrors coming to suck out our minds like Cthulu on meth. Do they really have to meditate and use voodoo dolls to draw cards?
-Is ingest going to be a thing? I have a realllly tough time evaluating that.
-The fetchable duals (please god tell me we're not going to keep calling them tangolands) are going to be, by FAR, the best cards in the set. 4-colour is totally going to be a thing. And though they only printed one playable landfall card, they'll print more in coming sets.
-Though it's not a good card, I really like the idea behind Halimar Tidecaller. "Land creatures you control". So lands are a tribe now, with lords and everything. Watch that space in future sets...
I also really like Halimar Tidecaller since at the worst it'll end up being recursion and at the best we actually are getting living land-lords.
I think Makindi Sliderunnerand Tunneling Geopede will see play in landfall decks.
Ingest is a good way to get rid of scry-ed cards from the top of libraries, beyond that I don't see it being incredibly effective.
I'm pretty sure Esper's optimal mana base, between the combination of allied fetches+battle lands and the presence of delve cards, involves some number of Bloodstained Mires and Windswept Heaths.
Really, my only disapointment with the set is there isn't some great Processor Edlrazi. I mean, we have the stuff to exile things, but we're missing that one Processor that will make the deck shine. Ulamog's Nullifier is a good start; I want more.
Plus, we still have Oath of the Gatewatch; we don't know the long term.
Red has the ONLY good 2 mana instant speed removal spell in standard though, with Draconic Roar. White has some really bad Journey to Nowhere imitations, black has Ultimate Price which is pretty bad, especially in an unknown and new metagame that might be full of multicolour and colourless creatures.
4 Draconic Roar, 4 Thunderbreak Regent is a good bet for deckbuilding if you want to do red.
BRx could be a thing. Or GRx, based entirely off the starting point of Draconic Roar and Thunderbreak.
@other guy, what cards specifically do we have to exile stuff. Abzanfenza sure, but other than that I think the best option is literally Touch of the Void, who's main claim to fame is that it beats a card that costs 1 mana less than it.
I remember the prevailing theory was Polukranos would hold Siege Rhino down. But I think a huge difference here is when Return to Ravnica rotated out every tier 1 deck lost its essential cards but Theros was second worst set in history, and you look at these competitive dragon, jeskai, and abzan decks and they aren't losing any cards. You have to present something better than what exists, this will be theros block all over where the same decks will remain largely unchanged for 9 months.
I do like some of the blue cards though.
BFZ is a Johnny set to the max. Sure it FEELS underwelming (we won't know until we play them), but there are so many interactions between cards to be discovered.
I think this set is awesome for speculators. People are looking for the wrong kind of synergies and interactions and miss some simple yet effective cards:
What say ye, oh sorcerers, wizards and druids?
http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/images/wallpaper/Ulamog-the-Ceaseless-Hunger_BFZ_1280x960_Wallpaper.jpg
I'm so torn whether to splash green or red for the deck, because both offer separate ways to play the game with a similar idea.
Going Grixis nets me two fetches, two tangos, Herald of Kozilek, Barrage Tyrant, Molten Nursery, Processor Assault, Brutal Expulsion, and Dust Stalker.
Going Sultai nets me a tr-land, a manland, Beastcaller Savant, Blisterpod, Call the Scions, Eyeless Watcher, From Beyond, Sylvan Scrying, Void Attendant, Brood Butcher, Catacomb Sifter, and Kiora, Master of the Depths.
Basically, going Grixis pushes a more, I wouldn't say aggro, but "faster-midrange" type deck that would interact with exile a fair bit. Meanwhile, going Sultai makes for a "slower-midrange" ramp deck that would mostly ramp into some of the bigger eldrazi. I'll playtest both and see where that gets me.
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
Which sets will be legal in standard once BFZ is released?
Admittedly, we don't have a Lotus Cobra or Searing Blaze for landfall, but the Allies are actually synergistic and seem viable instead of just random effects on fragile little bodies. None of the Landfall effects outside of the Enchantment cycle are specifically awful on anything that seems competitively playable.
Underwhelming, yes; Bad, no. We'll be retaining Khans for a while, and a lot of that power will remain, it also tends to be Strong set-Weak set in my experience.
I don't know what you talking about man. This set makes standard a brewer's paradise. Not only do the lands push you in multiple directions (shard with fetches/battlelands, wedge with manlands, 2 color with spell/utility lands, or 4/5 color insanity). But there's like 5 different ways to build an eldrazi deck (agro, midrange, ramp, control, tempo), there's a blood artist in here which is nuts with rally the ancestors, there's 3 strong walkers, control cards that double as win-cons, and strong edh cards. There's also a few things they don't normally do like colorless colored cards that get around protection, x cost creatures that give you power equal to x, a playable flametoungue kavu-eque creature and a land that taps for 2.
This set isn't the most powerful set or anything, khans is probably a stronger set, but it's a lot better than theros. It might get out shined for awhile, but I think this set will have a huge impact during it's standard run.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Yep.
The Eldrazi and Ally decks are doomed to become tier 2 trash and goodstuff.dec is going to dominate.
I'm willing to bet GBx will be the best deck by far. Either Abzan or Sultai. Maybe even splashing a 4th color that isn't red.
Talk about nerfing red by taking away Stormbreath Dragon and giving them nothing to replace it. Dragonlord Ojutai is the best replacement and you don't need red for that.
Every single deck will have 4 Hangarback Walker too.
Come on guys, help a newb out!
Cheers!
Kinak
@IronPlushy Well, to be fair it can't be "overhyped" since there is zero hype and everyone everywhere is already saying it's terrible. There's no hype to fail to live up to, haha.
@Aether7, yes, Hangarback is easily the best card in standard already, and that's only going to become more true.
I haven't scoured everything, but my favourite cards so far are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, From Beyond, Bring to Light and Kiora, Master of the Depths. I don't usually play in green so it should be fun for me to switch it up. I've already started playing with a really wonky, super fun ramp deck with flip-Nissa, Ugin and The great aurora. It's surprisingly great (though not tier 1). Turns out Hangarback tokens all become cards when you cast aurora.
For the record, I really like this set and the direction it's going. Yeah blabla low power level, but who cares. Power is relative.
I do have some critical thoughts about BFZ though:
-The new counterspell Scatter to the winds is... very very bad. Especially since there are so many amazing counterspells in Khans (scorn, d-stroke) It will obviously see play in stock UB mono-counterspell decks, as will the horrendous new version of hero's downfall, Ruinous Path. That thing stinks so bad I can smell it off my computer screen. But that brings me to my main point, which is that removal is getting a LOT worse, and I'm actually not sure I think that's a bad thing... yet. End Hostilities is going to be patently bonkers now that there kinda aren't any other efficient ways to kill creatures.
-The Awaken mechanic is lazy design and overcosted. I guess the intention is that control decks just stop playing threats and only use manlands and awaken to win. I dunno, seems poopy.
-The fetchable duals (please god tell me we're not going to keep calling them tangolands) are going to be, by FAR, the best cards in the set. 4-colour is totally going to be a thing. And though they only printed one playable landfall card, they'll print more in coming sets.
-Sorry everyone, but red is not a playable colour anymore. Just don't bother trying.
-The allys are boring. I'm sure they'll be fine and playable as a tribe or whatever, but there just aren't any that are like "wooooahhhh!!!" They really needed to print one mythic ally that does something as bonkers as what Ulamog does. Like 6 mana and when allies attack they each destroy a permanent or something. What's the big payoff? As it stands they're basically just slivers. (again, end hostilities is going to be a defining card of the new standard)
-Though it's not a good card, I really like the idea behind Halimar Tidecaller. "Land creatures you control". So lands are a tribe now, with lords and everything. Watch that space in future sets...
-I wish they wouldn't print cards like Ob Nixilis Reignited. It's just not interesting. It's the most yawn-inducing of the many derivatives of Necropotence. Like, what's next? A blue planeswalker that says +1 tap target creature, -1 draw a card, -5 draw 3 cards? A red one that says "+1 deals a damage, -1 make a goblin, -5 make a dragon? Sheeeeeeeeesh.
-Oracle of Dust is super silly. Like what's that eldrazi doing chilling by the river playing with Voodoo dolls!? These are monstrous inter-dimensional terrors coming to suck out our minds like Cthulu on meth. Do they really have to meditate and use voodoo dolls to draw cards?
-Is ingest going to be a thing? I have a realllly tough time evaluating that.
I also really like Halimar Tidecaller since at the worst it'll end up being recursion and at the best we actually are getting living land-lords.
I think Makindi Sliderunnerand Tunneling Geopede will see play in landfall decks.
Ingest is a good way to get rid of scry-ed cards from the top of libraries, beyond that I don't see it being incredibly effective.
And that really rubs me the wrong way.
Really, my only disapointment with the set is there isn't some great Processor Edlrazi. I mean, we have the stuff to exile things, but we're missing that one Processor that will make the deck shine. Ulamog's Nullifier is a good start; I want more.
Plus, we still have Oath of the Gatewatch; we don't know the long term.
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
Uhhhhh nobody, and I mean nobody, thought those were going to suck. Nobody.
You're probably right which means Jeskai Dragons could be a strong deck. Mantis Rider is already very hard to stop dodging Valorous Stance and Ultimate Price.
Thunderbreak Regent curving into Dragonlord Ojutai is sure to be a good move. Keep those Roast ready for Rhinos.
@other guy, what cards specifically do we have to exile stuff. Abzanfenza sure, but other than that I think the best option is literally Touch of the Void, who's main claim to fame is that it beats a card that costs 1 mana less than it.
I do like some of the blue cards though.
Seems like a great curve.
Exile Options include:
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
Thanks dude!
Be realistic and edit your list. Mist Intruder is not even going to be played in every blue draft deck.
You could fund dozens of comments like that, but you could also find tens of trillions of comments to the contrary.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Horribly Awry is secretly an AWESOME sideboard tool.
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