I think Kiora has too much synergy with the Den Protector/Deathmist Raptor combo to leave them out. When you -2 with Kiora if you find Deathmist with another value creature and a land you're ok sending the Deathmist to the Grave since you can recur him and when he's on the field you can use him to protect our 'Walkers. Radiant Flames, in testing, seems very versatile since, situationally, you can decide how much damage you want to deal on a scale of 1 to 3. Sometimes you hold back a point because your Raptors can survive it but you wipe away the small threats on the other side. Rolling Thunder is my favorite type of card in a ramp deck because you have control over how much you want to spread out amongst opposing threats and how much you want to dish straight to the face. It's why I'd take it over other options like Crater's Claws, Roast or Ravaging Blaze. Atarka and Ulamog are just the best threats to ramp into IMO, Omnath needs more of a landfall theme deck while the other two are just good on their own. Without needing Landfall triggers I can leave out cards like Explosive Vegetation and Animists Awakening in favor of creature ramp like Rattleclaw and the Shaman, which have better synergy with Kiora. Speaking of Kiora, she and Sarkhan also play a bit of harmony in the Ramp area while serving as card advantage and sometimes threat producers on their own. Reality Shift is for anything we can't handle on our own but it's also a good answer to Hangarback and opposing Ulamogs. One From Beyond in the MD because it can a) Ramp, b) Tutor our single Eldrazi and c) run away with the game on it's own if left alone. Windswept Heath is the unsung hero of the deck being our best fixing. BattleLands are Bonkers I don't care what anyone says.
Rolling Thunder will be between 3-4 in the 75. Amended by removal from current build. 9/20/15
Sarkhan Unbroken interacts better in a Temur Dragons list. How does the board look at the time Sarkhan Unbroken comes into play?
Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector make up one of the most resilient creature packages in standard. Does this type of deck want to start playing aggressively by turn 3-4, or is ramp going to be the primary objective? If so, how do we last long enough so that cards like Dragonlord Atarka and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger come down and take the game?
Rhaderis is absolutely correct here. G/r ramp and Temur ramp differ too much to be under one sub. G/r ramp will have more consistency due to the inclusion of cards like Explosive Vegetation and Nissa's Pilgrimage. Temur ramp does not have the mana base to support these cards.
Rolling Thunder will be between 3-4 in the main, 0-1 in the side.
Makes Sense. It's a solid finisher. Not as strong as Crater's Claws but much more versatile. Right now I like the 4 but I could see moving one to sideboard.
Sarkhan Unbroken interacts better in a Temur Dragons list. How does the board look at the time Sarkhan Unbroken comes into play?
Typically he comes down and makes a dragon and hopefully even if they remove him you have the Dragon. If you have more than just him on the field you can opt to go straight for the card advantage and often you might even have the mana left to play a second card that turn. If you untap with him you have a bit more ramp and it's color fixed. Plus you can keep making Fliers.
Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector make up one of the most resilient creature packages in standard. Does this type of deck want to start playing aggressively by turn 3-4, or is ramp going to be the primary objective? If so, how do we last long enough so that cards like Dragonlord Atarka and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger come down and take the game?
You're hoping to use the package to outlast the midrange and have better coverage against the aggro decks like Mono-Red since we lose Caryatid and Courser. It doesn't take us that long to get to 7+ mana. We try to establish a board early since removal is at more of a lull and our planeswalkers can help draw us into more fixing and card advantage. Kiora interacts real well with the package and has just been the all-star to warrant adding blue at all. You trade aggressively and keep up enough of a defense to last until you have the mana to cast your Dragonlord or Eldrazi who promptly clean up the other side of the field and can just win you the game. Late Den Protectors can also add recursion to your big threats.
They do seem very good and I think I might be too light on threats. I think I'm going to cut 2 Shaman of Forgotten Ways. Another card on my new shortlist is the very recent Woodland Wanderer. I'm already running 3 colors so at worst he's a 4 mana 4/4 with Vigilance and Trample and with Islands and even Prairie Stream he's a potential 5/5 or 6/6. Value.
Rhaderis is absolutely correct here. G/r ramp and Temur ramp differ too much to be under one sub. G/r ramp will have more consistency due to the inclusion of cards like Explosive Vegetation and Nissa's Pilgrimage. Temur ramp does not have the mana base to support these cards.
Maybe so, and I do seem to be more of a Midrange/Ramp deck than pure ramp but I don't think I'm any less consistent. Wait until the new set drops and I think people will start to see how good the mana in this set. Rattleclaw looks like our new Mana Dork and with creative deckbuilding it's not hard to hit your colors. Kiora was that last card that just pushed me towards blue and with her came the DP/DR package. I think Ramp will probably be a faster win but I argue I could have the most consistency since a big problem for Ramp is, if you don't have one of your pieces you can just fall apart. I can outlast and draw into my pieces more easily. At least, that's the plan.
Not much. We're running 10 blue sources in the land alone with Rattleclaw adding another 4. Getting to at least one blue mana, which is all the deck usually needs, is often easy.
I highly recommend Frontier Siege for any deck trying to ramp to really big stuff.
This card comes down on the turns this deck would need the ramp, so I moved Animist's Awakening to "Other Options". Thanks for pointing this out. Turn 3 really needs to be huge, or deny pressure. My only worry is I wouldn't hit U or M and throw the game. I'm having a hard time with coming up with good answers by turn 3.
Should Nissa, Vastwood Seer be a 2 or 3? She's really bad in multiples, though I want at least 1 every game.
I think I like UG/x ramp the most. Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Rattleclaw Mystic, Retreat to Coralhelm, and Kiora are all you really need to power out giants. Before you doubt the Retreat, consider curving Shaman into Coralhelm and dropping a fetch. How much mana will you have? 7, 10 if you wait a turn. Similarly Kiora gets you pretty easily to Ulamog mana turn 5. I also like the combo of Crumble to Dust and Oblivion Sower, giving you a really strong mana denial plan (since Ulamog will usually hit lands if he comes down early).
I think for a mana base I'd want 8-12 fetches, 5 basics, and 7-12 other lands (tango or spell).
The only thing troubling here is the lack of removal game 1.
Yep, I'm thinking of a heavy GW base with something to resist Atarka Red (which is a bye G1 so far) and something to get rid of big finishers like dragons and eldrazis. Hidden Dragonslayer seems to fit perfectly. As Den Protector feels out of place, I made the switch. The Prairie Stream is very useful so I put it over the 8th forest.
The SB is very tough to anticipate, but I'm gonna share a bunch of cards that follows my idea of what MUs I need to improve (fast aggro, ramp mirror, control) :
Rattleclaw is an obvious inclusion, but Whisperer is a bit less so. Honestly, I like it a bit more than either Beastcaller or Shaman, as its mana is unrestricted (which is important to ramp out something like From Beyond on turn 3) and can add multiple in a turn.
As for medium range threats, I've been really liking Conduit. He replaces himself, which is big. Getting something out that can tussle with Rhino and then potentially ramp out something even bigger next turn is fantastic. Oblivion Sower is straight value for a lot of the same reasons. He stonewalls stuff on the ground and, if your opponent is even close to your colors and will most likely ramp you when you cast him (even more if they're Delving). Whisperwood is also in this inclusion and is just powerful, though sometimes a nonbo with some of your Eldrazi.
Bane seems like a strange inclusion, but seeing as how he essentially has Annihilator 2 (which exiles! This feeds any processors you might choose to play and your Oblivion Sowers) and can fight with most things in the format, he's very likely to survive any fight he gets into and can wreck your opponents board state extremely quickly.
Void Winnower is weird and tbh I need to play with it more before I can really figure out how good it is. I'm leaning towards it being good, seeing as how it turns off a lot of your opponent's spells and lets your dorks, Conduits, Sowers and Ulamogs get in there without fear.
Ulamog is just straight value if you get to cast it. His cast trigger will very likely end the game in a deck like this and him attacking will also likely end the game. He is, however, 10 mana, so you can't really run more than 1-2. He does get searched up by Conduit, however.
Notable cards that I haven't included: Desolation Twin and Dragonlord Atarka. The former is likely to be in the board against control decks (forcing them to have multiple removal spells) and the latter doesn't quite match up with what this deck is trying to do. She's a nonbo with Conduit, From Beyond and Titan's Presence.
From Beyond is a sweet card. Even though it's a bit slower than Frontier Siege, it provides blockers early, mana in the midgame and a way to tutor up your big stuff later.
As for removal, Radiant Flames is for the early game (though you have to be careful with how you cast it when you have dorks on the field) and Titan's Presence to get rid of larger problem cards. With how many Eldrazi this deck runs (11, all with power 5 or greater, and ways to find them like From Beyond) you're likely to have at least one.
But anyways, that's what I've been playing around with. I've run a few games with it so far and it's been seeming fine, though I haven't yet set up a true gauntlet for it.
I've been using dragons as my finishers. The advantage of this approach is you get Haven of the Spirit Dragon, so you don't need as many finishers, which means you get more ramp/defense, and you get to play Scaleguard Sentinels to give you a chance against sligh.
Beastcaller Savant seems ok. Do you ever feel like you just have too much ramp? Is there anything with a bit more utility that can fall in this slot?
I guess it's part of a ramp deck. Sometimes you draw only lands and acceleration. That's why the threats have to be over the top. One thought I've got is to replace the 2 Ojutais for 2 extra Dromokas, but it's definitely a meta call. The meta doesn't exist yet though.
About replacing mana accelerants, eer it's tough. You can cut one 3-drop, but definitiely not any of the eight 2-drops, which are the earliest action you get and need in the deck. One Shaman of Forgotten Ways could be cut, or the Nissa, but what for ? Maybe a card in the full spoiler I haven't checked out yet...
If your question is whether Savant is fine as a 2-drop, well he fits perfectly with the list, more than Leaf Gilder or Whisperer of the Wilds.
@MrM0nd4y: your list falls straight to aggro decks. Either 2 Radiant Flames isn't enough, or you need early action, like the Raptor Package, and/or something else.
About the finishers, I would play 4 Bane of Bala Ged before I add any million-mana-drop. Bane is a must-be-answered threat, it is slow but very playable with the ambushing Whisperwood Elemental. In this scenario, Conduit looks bad and Sower looks great, because he probably gives you the 7th mana source for Bane to be cast (and Nissa to flip), even if he's countered or killed, while Conduit has a worse body, and gives QA but no CA. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon would be a nice addition in your list, this card ends games.
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Yeah, I do think I'll up the Conduit to 4 at some point, potentially by going -1 Ulamog. You're right in that with 4 Conduits and the 4 From Beyond you essentially would have 9 copies, which is often more than enough. And even if he gets ingested, you still have Void Winnower and Bane of Bala Ged to finish them off.
Canopy Vista is purely there to push Radiant Flames up to 3 damage to try and combat any new forms of aggro that have been running around.
In this scenario, Conduit looks bad and Sower looks great, because he probably gives you the 7th mana source for Bane to be cast (and Nissa to flip), even if he's countered or killed, while Conduit has a worse body, and gives QA but no CA.
Conduit is easily one of the better cards in the deck. He blocks everything you need him to, he tutors up big stuff to play and he pseudo ramps you if needed.
your list falls straight to aggro decks. Either 2 Radiant Flames isn't enough, or you need early action, like the Raptor Package, and/or something else.
It's possible that Radiant Flames would need to be pushed up to 4, though so far I haven't had the biggest problems with the aggro deck I was playing against (though that isn't saying too much until I can get a real gauntlet going). Getting out From Beyond can stymie their attack and getting out something like Whisperwood is often game over. The aggro decks have gotten slower now that M15 and Theros are rotating out (thank god).
I'm thinking of Atarka Red in the first place. From Beyond is far too slow to stop aggro, you want a creature in this slot, somewhere in the list. If you want to ramp at 4, you can play a stabilizer like Eyeless Watcher, which I believe is actually better than many ramp cards that have been discussed so far. Otherwise, Woodland Wanderer and Surrak, the Hunt Caller are good options to begin with. Believe me, I wish we could just ramp while the opponent doesn't do anything in the meantime. But we need ways to stop the fastest as the heaviest aggros (Abzan, just to quote one).
Whisperwood Elemental is good but doesn't reset the game when you just took 11 damage via an Atarka's Command on goblin tokens the previous turn and that was turn 4. They often just finish us with Exquisite Firecraft into a suicidal attack the next turn.
Conduit is easily one of the better cards in the deck. He blocks everything you need him to, he tutors up big stuff to play and he pseudo ramps you if needed.
On the paper. In real games, I can't say if I prefer Sower, but you definitely don't want too many Vanilla 6-drops. Before you get to 6 mana for a dumb ramp guy, your opponent may have Thunderbreak Regent, Dragonlord Ojutai, Deathmist Raptor, pumpable Savage Knuckleblade, an abzan charm-able Siege Rhino or Anafenza, the Foremost, or Wingmate Roc and his friendly bird, all ready to attack through those eldrazis.
At this spot, I would prefer Oblivion Sower because he trades favorably with some of them and get you a land. Conduit of Ruin doesn't give you the 7th mana to cast the card you're about to draw, which appears to be pretty awkward from time to time (aka when it dies before your next main phase).
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You do have a point, and I think I'm going to take a look at playing Surrak to stall out the board. Wanderer also looks sweet, but it all depends on how many duals you're running (and at this point I'm considering running one of each off color dual to fetch with Sower).
but you definitely don't want too many Vanilla 6-drops.
He isn't vanilla though. Yes he lacks a keyword, but he is both a tutor and pseudo ramp (and there will be times where your opponent has absolutely no answer to it). I do agree that Oblivion Sower is generally better as a six drop, which is why I'm running it as a 4of. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to imply here.
I'm implying that playing more than four 6-drops starts to overwhelm the curve in that slot, which will give you more mulligans and tough early games. They're vanillas because they can be chumped by goblin tokens forever and are not super impactful when they touch the board. You want 5+ drops to be 2-for-1's or wincons and Sower - at least - passes the test.
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Notes: I'm not sure about Blighted Woodlands with only 7 basics, so I may change one of them to a Mage-Ring Network. The one of each off color battleland is for Oblivion Sower potentially nabbing me an off color fetchland. They also help cast Radiant Flames, which has been moved up to four (as I came to the realization that things I wanted to kill with Titan's Presence often could be blocked for days with whatever I would reveal or die to Radiant Flames anyways). It's a bit of a nonbo with your mana dorks, but if you know your opponent is aggressive you can play around it. Besides, once you're able to get out From Beyond your mana dorks start becoming a bit less relevant.
I've taken out one Ulamog and all the Conduits for a playset of Surraks for some more early game. He holds off most stuff and tangles with Rhino, though he does dies to Abzan Charm and Exquisite Firecraft, which is annoying (though it looks like the aggressive decks aren't running a full 4 Firecraft, which is cool). He can also give your Eldrazi haste, which is essentially game over if it gets to happen.
afosz> your lists are really bad, sorry to tell. I don't even know where to start, you just dropped ideas without testing or real thought process behind them.
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The Sultai version you've presented seems more thought out. Both versions have too many threats, and not enough of a way to get to those threats. Where's Languish and Crux of Fate?
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 From Beyond
4 Atarka's Command
Planeswalkers
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures
4 Leaf Gilder
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Den Protector
3 Deathmist Raptor
3 Whisperwood elemental
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
5 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Cinder Glade
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Lumbering Falls
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Gaea's Revenge
4 Radiant Flames
4 Roast
2 Dispel
2 Orbs of Warding
Presumed G/x Shell
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cinder Glade
4 Canopy Vista
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Canopy Vista
4 Prairie Stream
-Options-
Colorless:
- Oblivion Sower
- Hangarback Walker
- Clash of Wills
- Stubborn Denial
- Scatter to the Winds
- Silumgar's Scorn
- Dig Through Time
- Spell Shrivel
- Dampening Pulse
- Embodiment of Spring
- Wild Slash
- Crater's Claws
- Draconic Roar
- Exquisite Firecraft
- Crumble to Dust
- Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
- Dragonmaster Outcast
- Rolling Thunder
- Twin Bolt
- Arc Lightning
- Greenwarden of Murasa
- Natural Connection
- Swell of Growth
- See the Unwritten
- Animist's Awakening
- Honored Hierarch
- Whisperer of the Wilds
- Call the Scions
- Eyeless Watcher
- Frontier Siege
- Nissa's Pilgrimage
- Surrak, the Hunt Caller
- Woodland Wanderer
- Jaddi Offshoot
- Omnath, Locus of Rage
- Brutal Expulsion
- Savage Knuckleblade
- Dragonlord Ojutai
- Dragonlord Dromoka
- Sarkhan Unbroken
Island:
Mountain:
Forest:
Gold:
Synergies:
- Honored Hierarch and Swell of Growth
- Greenwarden of Murasa and See the Unwritten
- Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, Rattleclaw Mystic, and Whisperwood Elemental
- Crumble to Dust and Oblivion Sower
- Dampening Pulse and Orbs of Warding
4 Den Protector
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
3 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Sarkhan Unbroken
1 From Beyond
4 Reality Shift
4 Rolling Thunder
2 Radiant Flames
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cinder Glade
2 Prairie Stream
2 Lumbering Falls
5 Forest
2 Island
1 Mountain
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Rolling Thunder will be between 3-4 in the 75. Amended by removal from current build. 9/20/15
Sarkhan Unbroken interacts better in a Temur Dragons list. How does the board look at the time Sarkhan Unbroken comes into play?
Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector make up one of the most resilient creature packages in standard. Does this type of deck want to start playing aggressively by turn 3-4, or is ramp going to be the primary objective? If so, how do we last long enough so that cards like Dragonlord Atarka and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger come down and take the game?
See the Unwritten and Greenwarden of Murasa make an efficient engine. 6 mana is easily reachable in G/x ramp by turn 4.
Rhaderis is absolutely correct here. G/r ramp and Temur ramp differ too much to be under one sub. G/r ramp will have more consistency due to the inclusion of cards like Explosive Vegetation and Nissa's Pilgrimage. Temur ramp does not have the mana base to support these cards.
How much consistency is lost on Kiora, Master of the Depths when keeping red?
Could the mana base be changed to incorporate Kiora, Master of the Depths, Radiant Flames, Explosive Vegetation, and Nissa's Pilgrimage?
Typically he comes down and makes a dragon and hopefully even if they remove him you have the Dragon. If you have more than just him on the field you can opt to go straight for the card advantage and often you might even have the mana left to play a second card that turn. If you untap with him you have a bit more ramp and it's color fixed. Plus you can keep making Fliers.
You're hoping to use the package to outlast the midrange and have better coverage against the aggro decks like Mono-Red since we lose Caryatid and Courser. It doesn't take us that long to get to 7+ mana. We try to establish a board early since removal is at more of a lull and our planeswalkers can help draw us into more fixing and card advantage. Kiora interacts real well with the package and has just been the all-star to warrant adding blue at all. You trade aggressively and keep up enough of a defense to last until you have the mana to cast your Dragonlord or Eldrazi who promptly clean up the other side of the field and can just win you the game. Late Den Protectors can also add recursion to your big threats.
They do seem very good and I think I might be too light on threats. I think I'm going to cut 2 Shaman of Forgotten Ways. Another card on my new shortlist is the very recent Woodland Wanderer. I'm already running 3 colors so at worst he's a 4 mana 4/4 with Vigilance and Trample and with Islands and even Prairie Stream he's a potential 5/5 or 6/6. Value.
Maybe so, and I do seem to be more of a Midrange/Ramp deck than pure ramp but I don't think I'm any less consistent. Wait until the new set drops and I think people will start to see how good the mana in this set. Rattleclaw looks like our new Mana Dork and with creative deckbuilding it's not hard to hit your colors. Kiora was that last card that just pushed me towards blue and with her came the DP/DR package. I think Ramp will probably be a faster win but I argue I could have the most consistency since a big problem for Ramp is, if you don't have one of your pieces you can just fall apart. I can outlast and draw into my pieces more easily. At least, that's the plan.
Not much. We're running 10 blue sources in the land alone with Rattleclaw adding another 4. Getting to at least one blue mana, which is all the deck usually needs, is often easy.
The mana base as is will probably support those cards, just make your own cuts.
Current List
4 Den Protector
4 Deathmist Raptor
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Woodland Wanderer
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
3 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 Sarkhan Unbroken
1 From Beyond
3 Rolling Thunder
2 Radiant Flames
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cinder Glade
2 Prairie Stream
2 Lumbering Falls
5 Forest
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
3 Brutal Expulsion
2 Horribly Awry
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Roast
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Rolling Thunder
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
This card comes down on the turns this deck would need the ramp, so I moved Animist's Awakening to "Other Options". Thanks for pointing this out. Turn 3 really needs to be huge, or deny pressure. My only worry is I wouldn't hit U or M and throw the game. I'm having a hard time with coming up with good answers by turn 3.
Should Nissa, Vastwood Seer be a 2 or 3? She's really bad in multiples, though I want at least 1 every game.
4 Beastcaller Expert
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
4 Deathmist Raptor
3 Den Protector
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Woodland Wanderer
4 Whisperwood Elemental
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
4 Dragonlord Atarka
8 Forest
4 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
1 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
Mountain being here for SB purposes (Radiant Flames, Roast,etc...).
4 Beastcaller Savant
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
4 Woodland Wanderer
2 Icefall Regent
2 Greenwarden of Murasa
3 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 Sarkhan Unbroken
Otherspell (7)
1 From Beyond
3 Reality Shift
3 Rolling Thunder
Land (24)
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cinder Glade
1 Prairie Stream
2 Lumbering Falls
5 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Frontier Bivouac
I think for a mana base I'd want 8-12 fetches, 5 basics, and 7-12 other lands (tango or spell).
Radiant Flames seems more important than Rolling Thunder game one.
The only thing troubling here is the lack of removal game 1.
If the meta is going to be slower, then Honored Hierarch is definitely useful as T1 drop and T3 ramp.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Yep, I'm thinking of a heavy GW base with something to resist Atarka Red (which is a bye G1 so far) and something to get rid of big finishers like dragons and eldrazis. Hidden Dragonslayer seems to fit perfectly. As Den Protector feels out of place, I made the switch. The Prairie Stream is very useful so I put it over the 8th forest.
The SB is very tough to anticipate, but I'm gonna share a bunch of cards that follows my idea of what MUs I need to improve (fast aggro, ramp mirror, control) :
4 Beastcaller Savant
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
4 Deathmist Raptor
3 Hidden Dragonslayer
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Woodland Wanderer
4 Whisperwood Elemental
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
4 Dragonlord Atarka
7 Forest
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
1 Prairie Stream
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Blossoming Sands
3 Arashin Cleric
3 Feed the Clan
3 Arc Lightning
1 Burn Away
2 Den protector
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Cinder Glade
2 Canopy Vista
2 Blighted Woodland
10 Forest
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
2 Den Protector
4 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Oblivion Sower
3 Conduit of Ruin
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
1 Bane of Bala Ged
2 Radiant Flames
2 Titan's Presence
4 From Beyond
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
Rattleclaw is an obvious inclusion, but Whisperer is a bit less so. Honestly, I like it a bit more than either Beastcaller or Shaman, as its mana is unrestricted (which is important to ramp out something like From Beyond on turn 3) and can add multiple in a turn.
As for medium range threats, I've been really liking Conduit. He replaces himself, which is big. Getting something out that can tussle with Rhino and then potentially ramp out something even bigger next turn is fantastic. Oblivion Sower is straight value for a lot of the same reasons. He stonewalls stuff on the ground and, if your opponent is even close to your colors and will most likely ramp you when you cast him (even more if they're Delving). Whisperwood is also in this inclusion and is just powerful, though sometimes a nonbo with some of your Eldrazi.
Bane seems like a strange inclusion, but seeing as how he essentially has Annihilator 2 (which exiles! This feeds any processors you might choose to play and your Oblivion Sowers) and can fight with most things in the format, he's very likely to survive any fight he gets into and can wreck your opponents board state extremely quickly.
Void Winnower is weird and tbh I need to play with it more before I can really figure out how good it is. I'm leaning towards it being good, seeing as how it turns off a lot of your opponent's spells and lets your dorks, Conduits, Sowers and Ulamogs get in there without fear.
Ulamog is just straight value if you get to cast it. His cast trigger will very likely end the game in a deck like this and him attacking will also likely end the game. He is, however, 10 mana, so you can't really run more than 1-2. He does get searched up by Conduit, however.
Notable cards that I haven't included: Desolation Twin and Dragonlord Atarka. The former is likely to be in the board against control decks (forcing them to have multiple removal spells) and the latter doesn't quite match up with what this deck is trying to do. She's a nonbo with Conduit, From Beyond and Titan's Presence.
From Beyond is a sweet card. Even though it's a bit slower than Frontier Siege, it provides blockers early, mana in the midgame and a way to tutor up your big stuff later.
As for removal, Radiant Flames is for the early game (though you have to be careful with how you cast it when you have dorks on the field) and Titan's Presence to get rid of larger problem cards. With how many Eldrazi this deck runs (11, all with power 5 or greater, and ways to find them like From Beyond) you're likely to have at least one.
But anyways, that's what I've been playing around with. I've run a few games with it so far and it's been seeming fine, though I haven't yet set up a true gauntlet for it.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
3 Windswept Heath
3 GW Tango
3 GR Tango
4 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
13 Forest
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
1 Whisperer of the Wilds
4 Scaleguard Sentinels
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Frontier Siege
3 Hedron Archive
1 Explosive Vegetation
4 Dragonlord Dromoka
4 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
No interaction whatsoever. Gross.
Sagu Mauler has trample where Gaea's Revenge has haste. I don't know if the trample is defeated where it would be applicable by the burn from Dragonlord Atarka.
Hidden Dragonslayer is exactly the type of card I'd want to have in this kind of build.
Beastcaller Savant seems ok. Do you ever feel like you just have too much ramp? Is there anything with a bit more utility that can fall in this slot?
I guess it's part of a ramp deck. Sometimes you draw only lands and acceleration. That's why the threats have to be over the top. One thought I've got is to replace the 2 Ojutais for 2 extra Dromokas, but it's definitely a meta call. The meta doesn't exist yet though.
About replacing mana accelerants, eer it's tough. You can cut one 3-drop, but definitiely not any of the eight 2-drops, which are the earliest action you get and need in the deck. One Shaman of Forgotten Ways could be cut, or the Nissa, but what for ? Maybe a card in the full spoiler I haven't checked out yet...
If your question is whether Savant is fine as a 2-drop, well he fits perfectly with the list, more than Leaf Gilder or Whisperer of the Wilds.
@MrM0nd4y: your list falls straight to aggro decks. Either 2 Radiant Flames isn't enough, or you need early action, like the Raptor Package, and/or something else.
About the finishers, I would play 4 Bane of Bala Ged before I add any million-mana-drop. Bane is a must-be-answered threat, it is slow but very playable with the ambushing Whisperwood Elemental. In this scenario, Conduit looks bad and Sower looks great, because he probably gives you the 7th mana source for Bane to be cast (and Nissa to flip), even if he's countered or killed, while Conduit has a worse body, and gives QA but no CA.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon would be a nice addition in your list, this card ends games.
Canopy Vista is purely there to push Radiant Flames up to 3 damage to try and combat any new forms of aggro that have been running around.
Conduit is easily one of the better cards in the deck. He blocks everything you need him to, he tutors up big stuff to play and he pseudo ramps you if needed.
It's possible that Radiant Flames would need to be pushed up to 4, though so far I haven't had the biggest problems with the aggro deck I was playing against (though that isn't saying too much until I can get a real gauntlet going). Getting out From Beyond can stymie their attack and getting out something like Whisperwood is often game over. The aggro decks have gotten slower now that M15 and Theros are rotating out (thank god).
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Whisperwood Elemental is good but doesn't reset the game when you just took 11 damage via an Atarka's Command on goblin tokens the previous turn and that was turn 4. They often just finish us with Exquisite Firecraft into a suicidal attack the next turn.
On the paper. In real games, I can't say if I prefer Sower, but you definitely don't want too many Vanilla 6-drops. Before you get to 6 mana for a dumb ramp guy, your opponent may have Thunderbreak Regent, Dragonlord Ojutai, Deathmist Raptor, pumpable Savage Knuckleblade, an abzan charm-able Siege Rhino or Anafenza, the Foremost, or Wingmate Roc and his friendly bird, all ready to attack through those eldrazis.
At this spot, I would prefer Oblivion Sower because he trades favorably with some of them and get you a land. Conduit of Ruin doesn't give you the 7th mana to cast the card you're about to draw, which appears to be pretty awkward from time to time (aka when it dies before your next main phase).
He isn't vanilla though. Yes he lacks a keyword, but he is both a tutor and pseudo ramp (and there will be times where your opponent has absolutely no answer to it). I do agree that Oblivion Sower is generally better as a six drop, which is why I'm running it as a 4of. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to imply here.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Cinder Glade
2 Canopy Vista
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Smoldering Marsh
2 Blighted Woodland
7 Forest
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
2 Den Protector
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
4 Whisperwood Elemental
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Bane of Bala Ged
1 Void Winnower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Radiant Flames
4 From Beyond
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
Notes: I'm not sure about Blighted Woodlands with only 7 basics, so I may change one of them to a Mage-Ring Network. The one of each off color battleland is for Oblivion Sower potentially nabbing me an off color fetchland. They also help cast Radiant Flames, which has been moved up to four (as I came to the realization that things I wanted to kill with Titan's Presence often could be blocked for days with whatever I would reveal or die to Radiant Flames anyways). It's a bit of a nonbo with your mana dorks, but if you know your opponent is aggressive you can play around it. Besides, once you're able to get out From Beyond your mana dorks start becoming a bit less relevant.
I've taken out one Ulamog and all the Conduits for a playset of Surraks for some more early game. He holds off most stuff and tangles with Rhino, though he does dies to Abzan Charm and Exquisite Firecraft, which is annoying (though it looks like the aggressive decks aren't running a full 4 Firecraft, which is cool). He can also give your Eldrazi haste, which is essentially game over if it gets to happen.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
4 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Dragonlord Dromoka
3 Nissa, the Vastwood Seer
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells
4 Atarka's Command
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Hedron Archive
2 Swell of Growth
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
8 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Desolation Twin
4 Jaddi Offshoot
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Sire of Stagnation
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Spells
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
2 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Swell of Growth
12 Forest
1 Island
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
The Sultai version you've presented seems more thought out. Both versions have too many threats, and not enough of a way to get to those threats. Where's Languish and Crux of Fate?
-1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
-1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
-1 Desolation Twin
-2 Lands & rework manabase
+3 Languish
+2 Crux of Fate
You were onto something when you mentioned Honored Hierarch and Swell of Growth.