This actually seems kind of poor in most matchups. Against the Ensoul decks specifically it is probably fine but everywhere else it's just going to do the same thing as Whelming Wave, for more mana, while bouncing your own Jace and Tutelage.
This. Since it also doesn't kill Ensouls unless you play it with X<2.
Great article by Majors post Grand Prix finish and a great primer on the deck.
I generally agree with about 99% of the topics and paradigms discussed here--the major one being is that you can really occupy the same headspace as something like Temur RUG Delver in Legacy, or if you have no experience with the Legacy's Delver lineage, Lantern Control in Modern (my own evaluation of the deck from play both this and Lantern) For the most part, this deck does not operate at all in the same way that all the other standard decks do. As noted by LSV and other coverage commentators during the GP, the deck has no way of dealing any sort of damage to the opponent, and all the other spells that deal damage actually just do it to creatures.
His sideboard MVPs were Negate, Fiery Impulse, and Annul. And in testing, they have been all starts as well. I will probably up my count of Impulses back to 4 and take out Keranos, who has been okay in testing...but not great. I plan on playing in an event Friday, and I'm torn between 4 Impulses and 3 Impulses/1 Keranos. I think given how fast the deck can just mill them out I don't feel like Keranos will have anytime to shine. But in the games were you can't find a Tutelage he would be awesome.
The 1% that I don't agree with is Majors evaluation of Whelming Wave. That card has saved my sorry ass so many times it's not even funny, but I truly feel like Send to Sleep is just better. Maybe I'll replace the one in the sideboard with more Encase in Ice or make that my slot for Keranos.
Some other videos for you: GPSD coverage of Majors playing the deck.
The deck best operates when you can blank all of their removal and playing a gimmicky 4 CMC creature is, surprisingly too much for the deck. We really only need 3-4 lands anyways, and we can just use all the other ones as discard fodder to Insight and Voice. Why would I want to exile a Cruise when I can just flash it back with Jace late game and kill them with it. Durdling around with Living Lore is not what this deck wants to do, sadly
Plus, it guarantees that Dromoka's Command will always be turned on, allowing them to always 2-for-1 us by killing Lore (which they can do) and getting a Tutelage.
Living Lore's last ability triggers on a combat damage trigger, which means you could cast the card "imprinted" onto it if you block with it. I think it could be a fun sideboard card, but I feel by including it with tutelage and opening up the deck to Dromoka's Command almost mandates adding a third color to the deck for some graveyard recursion for enchantments. Either by going Temur for Reclaim (and Unravel the Æther) or Jeskai for Starfield of Nyx. I'm inclined to say temur looks more promising since reclaim is a one mana instant Jace can flashback.
More people need to be talking about Disperse especially post-board when you have more Negates in to counter whatever you are bouncing that got through the first time. Disperse to save your own Tutelage is also a real thing to blank removal. Like I mentioned earlier, I was very happy main-decking x1 Disperse in my Game Day win. The question is how many in side... I'm thinking x2.
I agree was also surprised Majors disdain for Whelming Wave. Two feels perfect for the deck. Majors first article on Channelfireball didn't say anything bad about Wave, I believe.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
The 1% that I don't agree with is Majors evaluation of Whelming Wave. That card has saved my sorry ass so many times it's not even funny, but I truly feel like Send to Sleep is just better. Maybe I'll replace the one in the sideboard with more Encase in Ice or make that my slot for Keranos.
I dont run jace in the deck even though I have a playset. The presence of searing blood in my meta makes it a lightning rod. I run no creatures main and the only 'creature' in the board is a single Keranos. Also cut the dictates. Gaea's revenge is handled by aetherspouts if they get that far as a playset of angers should clear out the mana dorks before they can ramp into it. Also talent of the telepath can nab an abzan/sultai charm, crux/end hostilities, or thoughtseize to deal with it. I run 1-2 copies of burn away. Kills siege rhino and tasigur AND exiles the yard? Sign me up. Encase in ice handles stormbreath nicely. Reality shift is a fantastic removal spell for big dumb beatsticks. The one deck I see problems with could be u/w/x heroic as their creature gets out of range of anger and removal often gets blanked by protection spells and they can kill with temur battle rage before whelming wave or aetherspouts becomes an option. Im also running 3 swan song in the board. With those and the negates I can force a tutelage through counters or protect my win con. Against orbs of warding, back to nature, counterspells, stain the mind, etc its pure gold.
My meta is usually almost all abzan and mono red. Last FNM was 2 sultai walkers, 2 bg elves, i was playing rhino/merchant rally, 2 abzan/gw constellation, 4 mono red, 4 abzan control/midrange, 1 gw hardened thopters, a simic homebrew, 2 ur mill, 1 bant heroic, 1 mono red devotion,
1 America heroic, and a gw aggro deck. I went 4-0 for first with rally and one of the ur mill went 3-1 and took second. The only card i was missing was the archive to play ur mill and the first pack opened that i won for 1st was archive. Sleeved up and ready to go.
I've seen that to and to be honest I'm not a fan. Majors went on an one about how expensive Archive and Wave are but gives Goggles the thumbs up. To me, if I wanted to tap out for anything, it would be Wave and/or Archive over Goggles.
Instead of adding another color for graveyard recursion, why not just run cranial archive and shuffle your yard back in. With the way this deck draws cards it shouldn't be a problem to hit your blown up tutelage again. I like the idea of pyromancer's goggles, but think archive is better for the cost as it turns radiant fountains into 4 life and doubles the draw off tutelage's second ability and cruise. I'm running lightning strike over fiery impulse at the moment as I cant find my impulses, but main deck roast has been amazing for me. I like swan song over annul as it gives us another cheap way to win counter wars or protect our mill baby. I've thought about playing an orbs of warding in the side, but not sure what to take out for it. Possibly the single keranos or ugin.
Not running any creatures besides jace 9 times out of ten means he eats a removal spell game one before getting to tap. In my meta anyways. I've replaced him with more spot removal which makes my turn two play usually lightning strike the: eidolon of the great revel/fleecemane lion/dash creature/ etc. Or I can play a draw spell. I think anticipate wouldn't be a bad two drop for this deck either. I may end up running jace in the board with my swan songs and playing him as a three drop, as my opponent who doesnt see any creatures may board out enough removal to let him be effective with countermagic back up.
Anticipate doesn't draw cards to trigger Tutelage. Dig Through Time is playable, because it reaches deep enough into the deck that the not-a-draw isn't awful. Anticipate does not.
Its not removal really, but acts like a fog against aggro decks while also getting you closer to the cards you need. It can even cycle against control decks.
csanders I know anticipate doesn't draw cards. I was saying that anticipate could be used in early turns, as another two drop maybe, to dig yourself deeper into the deck to find your tutelage/answers.
Hi. I have tested the deck and it is really fun and efficient.
How do you feel around the fact that the winco solely lies on one card ? Has anyone thought of an alternative winco (eg win with disruptive creatures while clearing the board) ?
Also, any thought on a black splash for dark deal ?
I wonder if BFZ mana and cards would allow this deck to go Grixis. You can keep the core (insight, voice, cruise, jace and tutelage) plus you get removal that draws cards (fathom feeder, Ob Nixilis Reignited), you get access to hard sweepers (radiant flames for 3, languish and crux of fate). Grixis tutelage might be the real thing, at least the first weeks of BFZ if everyoen is doing really slow things trying to ramp into the big Eldrazi fatties.
Grixis is what this deck will turn into now that we lose Anger and Whelming Wave.
We need to turn to cards like Languish and Dark Deal. The mana base is fantastic.
Grixis is what this deck will turn into now that we lose Anger and Whelming Wave.
We need to turn to cards like Languish and Dark Deal. The mana base is fantastic.
Going forward, I will optimize mana base, replace anger with radiant flames, and replace downfall with the new downfall (forget the name right now). Since this deck plays very much like an aggro deck, loosing the instant speed is not that big of a deal for us, and the awakened land lategame can help us defend vs late creatures. I end many games at 1 or 2 life currently, so having a late game blocker should not be underestimated (incidentaly, this is why i do not play thoughtseize... i think the life loss is relevant, but maybe not). Also, might test 1 ob Nixilis (seems draw + remove is exactly what we need) but 5 mana is alot. Not sure what to take out, because neither archive nor cruise is something that i want to take out, and the alterntive is rising the mana curve (not ideal). Samae goes for hedron archive: tutelage -> archive seems a good curve, but 4 mana sorcery speed i might play dark deal instead. Finally, I might add some kolaghan's command and fathom feeder in the board. Currently, Command with only 4 creatures maindeck seems like it looses a mode, but with feeders the creature count increases to 6-8 and then the creature recursion becomes a real thing. did not start testing, but these are the ideas i am having.
The manabase gives you 18 B, 11 U and 11 R. Given all the cheap early draw (magmatic insight, voice and jace), this feels closer to 21, 14, 14. Should be enough. Also, the mortuary mire helps recur a Jace (or a post board fathom feeder). The blighted cataract is obviously there for the extra draw triggers. Also, if you fetch early for basics, you have 11+ 6 = 17 basics, which should be more than enough to turn on the dual lands turn 3. Maybe this is too many basics, in which case we can remove some basics and add life-gain dual lands.
The board includes cheaper removal options to the MB removal, so that we can better adapt to what the opponent is playing. I did not test dark deal (i'm always skeptical of drawing my opponent into what he needs), but vs control decks it can work. But in this situation maybe Talent of the telepath is better. Finally, the command is useful not only to recur feeders, but also to deal with orbs of warding if they bring it in.
The manabase gives you 18 B, 11 U and 11 R. Given all the cheap early draw (magmatic insight, voice and jace), this feels closer to 21, 14, 14. Should be enough. Also, the mortuary mire helps recur a Jace (or a post board fathom feeder). The blighted cataract is obviously there for the extra draw triggers. Also, if you fetch early for basics, you have 11+ 6 = 17 basics, which should be more than enough to turn on the dual lands turn 3. Maybe this is too many basics, in which case we can remove some basics and add life-gain dual lands.
The board includes cheaper removal options to the MB removal, so that we can better adapt to what the opponent is playing. I did not test dark deal (i'm always skeptical of drawing my opponent into what he needs), but vs control decks it can work. But in this situation maybe Talent of the telepath is better. Finally, the command is useful not only to recur feeders, but also to deal with orbs of warding if they bring it in.
This makes 18 blue, 16 red and 14 black for 24 lands.
On the land count, I know magmatic insight requires a lot of land but could we not cut one or two to favour the control side of the deck ?
I have tested dark deal and it is very efficient. Just imagine: your hand is loaded, you cast it, your opponent starts to thin his deck by drawing, then the triggers come; you then only need to hit a treasure cruise with dark deal to get the machine going
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This. Since it also doesn't kill Ensouls unless you play it with X<2.
Great article by Majors post Grand Prix finish and a great primer on the deck.
I generally agree with about 99% of the topics and paradigms discussed here--the major one being is that you can really occupy the same headspace as something like
TemurRUG Delver in Legacy, or if you have no experience with the Legacy's Delver lineage, Lantern Control in Modern (my own evaluation of the deck from play both this and Lantern) For the most part, this deck does not operate at all in the same way that all the other standard decks do. As noted by LSV and other coverage commentators during the GP, the deck has no way of dealing any sort of damage to the opponent, and all the other spells that deal damage actually just do it to creatures.His sideboard MVPs were Negate, Fiery Impulse, and Annul. And in testing, they have been all starts as well. I will probably up my count of Impulses back to 4 and take out Keranos, who has been okay in testing...but not great. I plan on playing in an event Friday, and I'm torn between 4 Impulses and 3 Impulses/1 Keranos. I think given how fast the deck can just mill them out I don't feel like Keranos will have anytime to shine. But in the games were you can't find a Tutelage he would be awesome.
The 1% that I don't agree with is Majors evaluation of Whelming Wave. That card has saved my sorry ass so many times it's not even funny, but I truly feel like Send to Sleep is just better. Maybe I'll replace the one in the sideboard with more Encase in Ice or make that my slot for Keranos.
Some other videos for you: GPSD coverage of Majors playing the deck.
Vs Shenhar (GW Megamorph) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2KcJESmZI
Vs Burkhart (Abzan Aggro) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx5FTeJ1A9s
Vs Villela (Abzan Starfield) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QgJ3Eulczc
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
The deck best operates when you can blank all of their removal and playing a gimmicky 4 CMC creature is, surprisingly too much for the deck. We really only need 3-4 lands anyways, and we can just use all the other ones as discard fodder to Insight and Voice. Why would I want to exile a Cruise when I can just flash it back with Jace late game and kill them with it. Durdling around with Living Lore is not what this deck wants to do, sadly
Plus, it guarantees that Dromoka's Command will always be turned on, allowing them to always 2-for-1 us by killing Lore (which they can do) and getting a Tutelage.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I agree was also surprised Majors disdain for Whelming Wave. Two feels perfect for the deck. Majors first article on Channelfireball didn't say anything bad about Wave, I believe.
I did notice people removing 1 Whelming Wave for 1 Pyromancer's Goggles in many of the London builds.
My meta is usually almost all abzan and mono red. Last FNM was 2 sultai walkers, 2 bg elves, i was playing rhino/merchant rally, 2 abzan/gw constellation, 4 mono red, 4 abzan control/midrange, 1 gw hardened thopters, a simic homebrew, 2 ur mill, 1 bant heroic, 1 mono red devotion,
1 America heroic, and a gw aggro deck. I went 4-0 for first with rally and one of the ur mill went 3-1 and took second. The only card i was missing was the archive to play ur mill and the first pack opened that i won for 1st was archive. Sleeved up and ready to go.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Its not removal really, but acts like a fog against aggro decks while also getting you closer to the cards you need. It can even cycle against control decks.
^^
I'm sure there will be replacements
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
How do you feel around the fact that the winco solely lies on one card ? Has anyone thought of an alternative winco (eg win with disruptive creatures while clearing the board) ?
Also, any thought on a black splash for dark deal ?
A third colour enables a replacement of anger of the gods with this at the next rotation
And black gives access to dark deal and duress to remove enchantment hate.
UR is faster while Grisxis is also good IMO.
Modern : UR Storm / UR Delver / UR Counter Burn
I Love Izzet Color.
We need to turn to cards like Languish and Dark Deal. The mana base is fantastic.
Hooooly crap I need to start brewing.
Or just splash for Dark deal?
Modern : UR Storm / UR Delver / UR Counter Burn
I Love Izzet Color.
4 Bloodfell Caves
4 Temple of Malice
4 Shivan Reef
4 Polluted delta
4 island
4 mountain
2 swamp
1 urbrg, tomb of yawgmoth
Deck Core (23)
4 magmatic insight
4 tormenting voice
4 Jace, Vryn's prodigy
2 monastery siege
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
4 Treasure Cruise
1 Alhammarret's archive
1 Roast
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Languish
1 Murderous cut
1 Disperse
1 Encase in ice
1 Gainsay
4 Negate
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Fiery impulse
3 Roast
1 Seismic Rupture
Going forward, I will optimize mana base, replace anger with radiant flames, and replace downfall with the new downfall (forget the name right now). Since this deck plays very much like an aggro deck, loosing the instant speed is not that big of a deal for us, and the awakened land lategame can help us defend vs late creatures. I end many games at 1 or 2 life currently, so having a late game blocker should not be underestimated (incidentaly, this is why i do not play thoughtseize... i think the life loss is relevant, but maybe not). Also, might test 1 ob Nixilis (seems draw + remove is exactly what we need) but 5 mana is alot. Not sure what to take out, because neither archive nor cruise is something that i want to take out, and the alterntive is rising the mana curve (not ideal). Samae goes for hedron archive: tutelage -> archive seems a good curve, but 4 mana sorcery speed i might play dark deal instead. Finally, I might add some kolaghan's command and fathom feeder in the board. Currently, Command with only 4 creatures maindeck seems like it looses a mode, but with feeders the creature count increases to 6-8 and then the creature recursion becomes a real thing. did not start testing, but these are the ideas i am having.
3 swamp
4 island
4 mountain
3 polluted delta
3 Bloodstained mire
4 sunken hollow
4 smoldering marsh
1 mortuary mire
1 blighted cataract
Core (22)
4 magmatic insight
4 tormenting voice
4 Jace, vryn's prodigy
4 Sphinx's tutelage
4 Treasure Cruise
1 Ob nixilis reignited
1 Alhammarret's archive
4 Radian flames
2 ruinous path
2 Languish
1 murderous cut
1 crux of fate
1 Roast
4 Negate
2 roast
2 fiery impulse
2 Kolaghan's command
2 Fathom Feeder
1 seismic rupture
2 Dark Deal
The manabase gives you 18 B, 11 U and 11 R. Given all the cheap early draw (magmatic insight, voice and jace), this feels closer to 21, 14, 14. Should be enough. Also, the mortuary mire helps recur a Jace (or a post board fathom feeder). The blighted cataract is obviously there for the extra draw triggers. Also, if you fetch early for basics, you have 11+ 6 = 17 basics, which should be more than enough to turn on the dual lands turn 3. Maybe this is too many basics, in which case we can remove some basics and add life-gain dual lands.
The board includes cheaper removal options to the MB removal, so that we can better adapt to what the opponent is playing. I did not test dark deal (i'm always skeptical of drawing my opponent into what he needs), but vs control decks it can work. But in this situation maybe Talent of the telepath is better. Finally, the command is useful not only to recur feeders, but also to deal with orbs of warding if they bring it in.
On the manabase, I would try:
This makes 18 blue, 16 red and 14 black for 24 lands.
On the land count, I know magmatic insight requires a lot of land but could we not cut one or two to favour the control side of the deck ?
I have tested dark deal and it is very efficient. Just imagine: your hand is loaded, you cast it, your opponent starts to thin his deck by drawing, then the triggers come; you then only need to hit a treasure cruise with dark deal to get the machine going