Alright so anybody that plays legacy knows about lands, and while the standard stock of lands to choose from isn't exactly spectacular I started brewing as soon as I saw animist's awakening. If any of you read tcgplayer.com material you'll notice Conneley Woods came up with a similar list. The basic premise of both our decks is the same but it's been streamlined a little more.
4 Forest
4 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Mage-Ring Network
4 Mountain
2 Radiant Fountain
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
1 Thornwood Falls
4 Wooded Foothills
So you're looking at 38 and going wth is going on here right? Basic premise of the deck is as follows: kill them with molten vortex, a t4 nissa (which is very do-able) or hangarback walker for an obscene amount. Hit land drops 1-4, while playing your durdle spells in courser/nissa/siege, land a vortex somewhere in there as well. Once you're at 4 lands its safe to cast animists awakening for 3 (usually 2 lands, sometimes 3 and a nissa flip). From here on out you don't need to play lands, you simply use them to shock relevant creatures aka piledriver or random heroic things or the opponent. Aggressive mining turns all the non red source lands on board into lands in hand. Monastery siege digs repeatedly for more lands/win cons while getting rid of dead cards late game like extra vortexes. I've toyed with the idea of having more cruises, but 2 has played 100% reliable to always have 7 in the bin. The SB is a work in progress but definitely includes 4 copies of Anger of the Gods, the rest I haven't sorted out yet.
You aren't using the lands to kill large threats. You are using lands to kill small relevant things. For the most part the majority of lands are going to the opponent.
So I ran a similar list last week in fnm splitting for 1st and 2nd. My inspiration came from Conley as well.
Main differences compared to your list and Conley's is that I settled on 38 lands, 3 nissa, 4 magnetic insight, and 1 bow of nylea. I like this list as RGu.Animist's awakening and aggressive mining is a very real engine and had me contemplate going up to a third mining. I didn't run cruise or siege so I can't comment on their efficiency but I feel like I'd prefer magnetic insight and another draw effect over the bow I had.
Sb for this deck is very open but difficult as your match up against aggro is very solid especially when you sb 4 angers. This leaves 11 slots for midrange/control but I know my current struggle is what these spots should be.
I like Day's Undoinghowever many games go to top decks/late games and don't like the idea of giving an opponent a full grip---especially an aggro deck. It might have a spot in the sb or as a one of mb that's cast at a point that it's resolution ends a game on opp. upkeep.
Thoughts on Embermaw Hellion in the board for GR and abzan match ups? It blocks many of their threats and allows our vortex to handle their higher toughness threats a bit better.
Everybody insists on magmatic insight, but why not tormenting voice? Discarding a land in hopes you get 2 lands (although the possibility of 1 land and a could be dead card is real) seems medicore. Tormenting voice lets you pitch that extra vortex or courser or still the land if you need something else. It's not like 2 CC vs 1 cc in this deck mean all that much, you don't have much to do on turns 1 and 2 anyway.
I like going tap land into turn two magnetic insight after a scry or gain life land. Its very powerful. Late game I could see tormenting voice but I have really liked a one mana draw 2.
Hellion might be worth trying a copy or two, it'd make Molten Vortex hit harder and require you to have to discard 7 lands instead of 10 for a lethal shot.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Yeah, I was thinking as a sb card it would work as it might be less expected based on our mb---a good chance they side out removal. I really like my mb. I've been able to beat aggro and midrange---haven't played control. I just know the games I felt like I had the greatest trouble with were if they were casting cards like atarka, ugin, thunderbreak regent, and rhino.
I've been playing a Temur control list that basically is a lands deck. For control cards I run Ugin, Displacement Wave, Roast, and Clash of Wills. Clash of Wills is really good in this deck; its a 1U counterspell turn 2 to stymie aggro and it still works in the late game because we have oodles of mana. Ugin is nice because he is a boardwipe and I can play him many times with Haven of the Spirit Dragon, the only really strong utility land outside of Foundry of the Consuls.
I use Days Undoing not just for the draw 7 but also for the graveyard shuffle. With Haven, it ensures that I will be playing Ugin a crazy number of times against a control matchup. I also play Jace because he fulfills the same role as Magmatic Insight (card selection), but is simply a stronger card. He sees up to 5 cards instead of 2 and can be crucial for stabilizing. Counter double Rhino turn 5 with double roast is just one of his plays. Dislacement Wave is interesting because it wins the game with Nissa's ultimate, bounces your own Aggressive Mining, and is decent against aggro or Elpseth.
I haven't tuned the list much, but I think it has promise. Day's Undoing plus Animist's Awakening and Aggressive Mining give you a decent shot of digging for a win condition, either multiple Ugins or a large Molten Vortex. They work reasonably well together as an engine, because you can undo any damage to your manabase with a single Animist's Awakening. And with the Coursers you can gain a ton of life each turn. Foundry of the Consul and a bunch of shocks deal decently with aggro while the ability to play your deck again and again beats control. I think it won't do super well against G/R Devotion though, because it can easily go bigger than Roast can kill on the ground and Atarka is virtually impossible to deal with without a counter; Gaea's Revenge is also a factor.
Cards I'm considering:
Hammer of Purphoros (tokens don't get bounced by Ugin, more threats and turns Jace into sorcery speed snapcaster + loot)
Dreadwaters: Alternative combo kill - Dreadwaters flashback Dreadwaters with jace after large animist's awakening
Crater's Claws/Ravaging Blaze: Removal for bigger creatures or finisher
Genesis Hydra: To find our win cons
Curse of the Swine: Works well with Displacement Wave or Molten Vortex
Various planeswalkers: More things to do with our mana early that let us mostly tap-out later on
I think the key is to redefine the deck from a lands-matter combo deck to a control deck. The lands in standard don't have enough utility to justify a 40-land deck that desperately needs Molten Vortex to have a play, but you can build a decent control deck with a grindy theme that uses landa as a resource to gain life, card selection, recursion, chump blockers, and later on card draw and shocks.
My deck definitely plays out as a grindy control deck as opposed to a combo deck which was why I was considering mainboarding ugins and such. I was curious to see your 75 so that I could compare. I completely forgot about Haven so that's one adjustment I'll be making.
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4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Aggressive Mining
4 Animist's Awakening
4 Molten Vortex
2 Monastery Siege
2 Treasure Cruise
4 Forest
4 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Mage-Ring Network
4 Mountain
2 Radiant Fountain
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
1 Thornwood Falls
4 Wooded Foothills
So you're looking at 38 and going wth is going on here right? Basic premise of the deck is as follows: kill them with molten vortex, a t4 nissa (which is very do-able) or hangarback walker for an obscene amount. Hit land drops 1-4, while playing your durdle spells in courser/nissa/siege, land a vortex somewhere in there as well. Once you're at 4 lands its safe to cast animists awakening for 3 (usually 2 lands, sometimes 3 and a nissa flip). From here on out you don't need to play lands, you simply use them to shock relevant creatures aka piledriver or random heroic things or the opponent. Aggressive mining turns all the non red source lands on board into lands in hand. Monastery siege digs repeatedly for more lands/win cons while getting rid of dead cards late game like extra vortexes. I've toyed with the idea of having more cruises, but 2 has played 100% reliable to always have 7 in the bin. The SB is a work in progress but definitely includes 4 copies of Anger of the Gods, the rest I haven't sorted out yet.
In fact, the whole premise of using 2+ cards to deal with most large threats is kind of daunting.
Main differences compared to your list and Conley's is that I settled on 38 lands, 3 nissa, 4 magnetic insight, and 1 bow of nylea. I like this list as RGu.Animist's awakening and aggressive mining is a very real engine and had me contemplate going up to a third mining. I didn't run cruise or siege so I can't comment on their efficiency but I feel like I'd prefer magnetic insight and another draw effect over the bow I had.
Sb for this deck is very open but difficult as your match up against aggro is very solid especially when you sb 4 angers. This leaves 11 slots for midrange/control but I know my current struggle is what these spots should be.
Off the top of my head this is my list:
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Aggressive Mining
4 Animist's Awakening
4 Magmatic Insight
4 Molten Vortex
1 Bow of Nylea
5 Forest
4 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Frontier Bivouac
8 Mountain
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Rugged Highlands
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Mystery
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Ugin
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Negate
2 Disdainful Stroke
I use Days Undoing not just for the draw 7 but also for the graveyard shuffle. With Haven, it ensures that I will be playing Ugin a crazy number of times against a control matchup. I also play Jace because he fulfills the same role as Magmatic Insight (card selection), but is simply a stronger card. He sees up to 5 cards instead of 2 and can be crucial for stabilizing. Counter double Rhino turn 5 with double roast is just one of his plays. Dislacement Wave is interesting because it wins the game with Nissa's ultimate, bounces your own Aggressive Mining, and is decent against aggro or Elpseth.
I haven't tuned the list much, but I think it has promise. Day's Undoing plus Animist's Awakening and Aggressive Mining give you a decent shot of digging for a win condition, either multiple Ugins or a large Molten Vortex. They work reasonably well together as an engine, because you can undo any damage to your manabase with a single Animist's Awakening. And with the Coursers you can gain a ton of life each turn. Foundry of the Consul and a bunch of shocks deal decently with aggro while the ability to play your deck again and again beats control. I think it won't do super well against G/R Devotion though, because it can easily go bigger than Roast can kill on the ground and Atarka is virtually impossible to deal with without a counter; Gaea's Revenge is also a factor.
Cards I'm considering:
Hammer of Purphoros (tokens don't get bounced by Ugin, more threats and turns Jace into sorcery speed snapcaster + loot)
Dreadwaters: Alternative combo kill - Dreadwaters flashback Dreadwaters with jace after large animist's awakening
Crater's Claws/Ravaging Blaze: Removal for bigger creatures or finisher
Genesis Hydra: To find our win cons
Curse of the Swine: Works well with Displacement Wave or Molten Vortex
Various planeswalkers: More things to do with our mana early that let us mostly tap-out later on
I think the key is to redefine the deck from a lands-matter combo deck to a control deck. The lands in standard don't have enough utility to justify a 40-land deck that desperately needs Molten Vortex to have a play, but you can build a decent control deck with a grindy theme that uses landa as a resource to gain life, card selection, recursion, chump blockers, and later on card draw and shocks.