Friend of my played that deck for a few weeks. It has some play, but was just wildly inconsistent. If you didn't get out Phenax, you just couldn't win (Even if you were running Ashiok, your deck is loaded with so much non-action that you just can't keep the board under control). It's essentially a very draw dependent deck that doesn't necessarily mean you'll win even if you get all the right pieces in play. Tried to get him to run Returned Phalanx, but he never would listen to me. It's a generally lethal blocker that can give you some sort of plan B if things don't go well.
That said, if you want to run it at an FNM, go for it. I'd say it'd do decently enough. Just don't expect it to crush people all night long.
If you wouldn't mind, I would like to see the list actually. It would help greatly in providing assistance and answering questions about the efficacy of the deck.
If you wouldn't mind, I would like to see the list actually. It would help greatly in providing assistance and answering questions about the efficacy of the deck.
Get rid of Countermand. Put in Dissolve or Dissipate or some similar cheaper counterspell. Nullify is really good right now.
The allstar in a deck like this is Hour of Need. Generally, if your walls are doing their job and the game is going late, Hour of Need can blow the opponent out harder than they can imagine.
I played Esper walls at the beginning of Rotation running some very similar cards and it blew a lot of people out of the water. The only deck I couldn't really keep up with was Temur Monsters or G/R monsters, and that was mostly because they could swing past my walls. However, there are better spells now, and honestly I could see this being a decent deck for FNM.
Detailed answer: There isn't enough of a control element for the deck to survive long enough to win. U/B control works because it plays Perilous Vault, which you do not want to play in a deck with Wall of Frost and Phenax, God of Deception. Jeskai decks will burn you out before you can stabilize. Abzan, Sultai, and Mardu decks will have a huge board presence that you can't deal with effectively without Perilous Vault.
You could still play it, and you will probably win a few games. It just isn't a competitive deck.
So I've got some experience with this deck as I've been running it in various forms since Phenax dropped. I've split most FNM 2-2 with the occasional flop (0-4) and the rare win (4-0). I started with a Doorkeeper, Wall of Frost, Defender style mill but had to change it up a bit with rotation. I've currently been running an enchantment heavy, "Constellation"-type Control/Mill in ESPER Colors.
So I've got some experience with this deck as I've been running it in various forms since Phenax dropped. I've split most FNM 2-2 with the occasional flop (0-4) and the rare win (4-0). I started with a Doorkeeper, Wall of Frost, Defender style mill but had to change it up a bit with rotation. I've currently been running an enchantment heavy, "Constellation"-type Control/Mill in ESPER Colors.
How's this specific list working out for you? If you get to deploy your board, it actually looks pretty cool. However, there are a ton of 3-drops and no card draw which seems unreliable.
So, the glaring issue with this deck seems to be the lack of win cons. I understand that it is a mill deck, but, looking at your list on tapped out, there are almost no actual mill cards. Phenax is an interesting card, but you have to understand that the major turn 5 cards currently affecting standard are boardwipes (end hostilities and crux of fate), which means that your walls will most likely be in the graveyard by the time you can afford to cast him.
Ashiok is currently your best option and should absolutely be at least a 3 of if you're planning on success. Liliana is a very dead card in this deck. The discard is completely ineffective by T5 and the search function will not win you games or even protect you because you're running too little removal to effect the board in any major way. If you're playing her for the discard function I would recommend any cheaper discard spell (mind rot, rakshasa's secret), brain maggot (which triggers constellation) or despise. If you're choosing her for the search function, you're almost better off running a read the bones or two to effectively filter your deck early to find the card you need when you need it.
Unfortunately in a Standard where the meta is dominated by removal and big hitting creatures, you will more-than-likely be forced to sac a wall early making the "rely on Phenax to mill" plan pretty ineffective.
Honestly, if you're looking for a fun deck that would be cheap and win much more often I would recommend either UW Heroic, Boss Sligh or RW Aggro/Heroic. They have much better successes and cost effectively nothing compared to decks like Abzan.
Grindclock and Altar of the Brood can speed up the mill to an extent. Even Stain the Mind can be helpful in some match ups. You'll never win the GP but milling can be thrilling.
One of the key issues with Phenax is that you're playing a ton of substandard cards that don't do half of what you wish of them unless you have your 5 drop. Not only must you survive but you must draw phenax, have it resolve, and have it live along with the rest of the field. Taking the list in question, we see 4 counters, 3 kill spells, and 12-14 wallish creatures, the last 2 being the omenspeakers which are probably ironically the most important part of your defense but questionably wallish. That's because the other 12 have 0 power.
Aggro - Very little defense. They can't kill your stuff... but you can't kill their army either which deploys faster than yours and will stay numerous. Barring a miracle... you die.
Midrange - Slightly better than aggro. Depends heavily on what kind of midrange you're talking about. If its a temur or mardu type, you're probably very, very sad because you don't stop them very well at all. Abzan is slightly better since they don't push through the bigger walls quite as quickly. Etc, etc.
Control - Now is that time where you are going to bang your head against the table trying to resolve Phenax. Meanwhile, you chunk walls out and they board wipe if they feel like it. They stick perilous vault out and you sigh. Etc, etc. Realistically, your best chance is just sticking Ashiok but they're used to fighting that too and do the same thing but better than you. I wouldn't be surprised to see UB control actually land Ashiok and mill you out instead more often than you them.
Phenax is pretty darn needy. If you like to play it, by all means do. Just don't expect amazing results. The strategy is needy, not one shottish, and not half as defensive as it wishes it could be. When I was in mess around mode, I did 4 color phenax last standard using gates, prophet of kruphix, gatecreeper vine, and hold the gates. That allowed me to play more digging/real defense cards and much fewer defenders. But that too is about as cumbersome as it sounds.
Mill was more effective last season. I had a pretty fun UB mill deck but Phenax wasn't a big part of it although I tried my best with him. Consuming Aberration and Jace were much better...
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thoughts?
That said, if you want to run it at an FNM, go for it. I'd say it'd do decently enough. Just don't expect it to crush people all night long.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-01-15-standard-mill/
im new to the forums and dont know how to add deck's here
edit: i recently found out that reality shift is a really good control card and might increase it to x4
The allstar in a deck like this is Hour of Need. Generally, if your walls are doing their job and the game is going late, Hour of Need can blow the opponent out harder than they can imagine.
I played Esper walls at the beginning of Rotation running some very similar cards and it blew a lot of people out of the water. The only deck I couldn't really keep up with was Temur Monsters or G/R monsters, and that was mostly because they could swing past my walls. However, there are better spells now, and honestly I could see this being a decent deck for FNM.
At the end of my opponents turn I could mill them one last time then use hour of need before my turn so I could attack him right?
Ashiok is exceedingly important in grindy matches where you aren't under much pressure and a large amount of removal is in play.
Short answer: It doesn't.
Detailed answer: There isn't enough of a control element for the deck to survive long enough to win. U/B control works because it plays Perilous Vault, which you do not want to play in a deck with Wall of Frost and Phenax, God of Deception. Jeskai decks will burn you out before you can stabilize. Abzan, Sultai, and Mardu decks will have a huge board presence that you can't deal with effectively without Perilous Vault.
You could still play it, and you will probably win a few games. It just isn't a competitive deck.
Cards I would consider playing: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Disowned Ancestor, Jorubai Murk Lurker, Wall of Frost, Dragon's Eye Savants, Grim Guardian, Monastery Flock, Omenspeaker, Returned Reveler, Sigiled Starfish, Master of the Feast, Dictate of Kruphix, Dissolve, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight, Drown in Sorrow, Disdainful Stroke, Aetherspouts, Liliana Vess, Erebos, god of the Dead, Dig Through Time, Thoughtseize, Despise, Brain Maggot, Murderous Cut, Nullify, and Silumgar, the Drifting Death (alt win condition). Obviously you'll need sets of Polluted Delta, Temple of Deceit, and Dismal Backwater.
Critters: 19
3x Phenax, God of Deception
4x Thassa's Devourer
4x Nyx-Fleece Ram
4x Grim Guardian
2x Riptide Chimera
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
Control
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Liliana Vess
3x Hero's Downfall
4x Banishing Light
3x Singing Bell Strike
1x Thassa's Ire
2x Extinguish All Hope
Lands: 24
How's this specific list working out for you? If you get to deploy your board, it actually looks pretty cool. However, there are a ton of 3-drops and no card draw which seems unreliable.
Ashiok is currently your best option and should absolutely be at least a 3 of if you're planning on success. Liliana is a very dead card in this deck. The discard is completely ineffective by T5 and the search function will not win you games or even protect you because you're running too little removal to effect the board in any major way. If you're playing her for the discard function I would recommend any cheaper discard spell (mind rot, rakshasa's secret), brain maggot (which triggers constellation) or despise. If you're choosing her for the search function, you're almost better off running a read the bones or two to effectively filter your deck early to find the card you need when you need it.
Unfortunately in a Standard where the meta is dominated by removal and big hitting creatures, you will more-than-likely be forced to sac a wall early making the "rely on Phenax to mill" plan pretty ineffective.
Honestly, if you're looking for a fun deck that would be cheap and win much more often I would recommend either UW Heroic, Boss Sligh or RW Aggro/Heroic. They have much better successes and cost effectively nothing compared to decks like Abzan.
I hope this helps!
Aggro - Very little defense. They can't kill your stuff... but you can't kill their army either which deploys faster than yours and will stay numerous. Barring a miracle... you die.
Midrange - Slightly better than aggro. Depends heavily on what kind of midrange you're talking about. If its a temur or mardu type, you're probably very, very sad because you don't stop them very well at all. Abzan is slightly better since they don't push through the bigger walls quite as quickly. Etc, etc.
Control - Now is that time where you are going to bang your head against the table trying to resolve Phenax. Meanwhile, you chunk walls out and they board wipe if they feel like it. They stick perilous vault out and you sigh. Etc, etc. Realistically, your best chance is just sticking Ashiok but they're used to fighting that too and do the same thing but better than you. I wouldn't be surprised to see UB control actually land Ashiok and mill you out instead more often than you them.
Phenax is pretty darn needy. If you like to play it, by all means do. Just don't expect amazing results. The strategy is needy, not one shottish, and not half as defensive as it wishes it could be. When I was in mess around mode, I did 4 color phenax last standard using gates, prophet of kruphix, gatecreeper vine, and hold the gates. That allowed me to play more digging/real defense cards and much fewer defenders. But that too is about as cumbersome as it sounds.