Should I run Tormenting Voice as I believe running out of cards would be a problem for this deck?
Thank you!
Tormenting Voice doens't net you any cards. You play TV, discard a card, (-2 cards) and then draw two cards (+2 cards).
In an aggro deck, I would avoid taking a turn off to play this card.
It's probably fine in Rx Delve strategies (there aren't any Delve cards in R so you need to splash).
If you want to brew with this card, the SDC forum would be glad to look at a 60 card standard deck built around Tormenting Voice and it's interactions in standard.
Flamewake Phoenix might help its playability a little but it would actually be in a larger red mid range deck. I think it might be playable in Mardu mid range with Butcher of the hoard and murderous cut and the phoenix but I"d have to test it.
If you are playing aggro, the idea is that your deck is basically creatures that turn sideways it doesn't really matter which one you draw so you don't really need card selection it is better to just have another creature that turns sideways.
I do play TV in a U/R Tempo Burn deck. It's only so-so on its on, to be honest. It's the sort of card where you want to craft specific things happening on specific turns and don't mind ditching a card that is currently either uncastable (Stoke the Flames with only 2 lands out), overly redundant (4x Lightning Strike does not get you there), or land heavy. That said, the major reason to run it at all is to enable very potent delve cards, particularly Treasure Cruise. If you know what you are doing with the card, you can make TV act as a pseudo-Divination for 2 much of the time (And I've noticed much of the time it's almost indistinguishable from Divination in the deck).
Of course, you're on the beatdown aggro path and Divination is not at all what you would want to do anyway. As others have said, Chandra is much better as it is vastly more versatile. I've often found that card drawers in more "pure" beatdown decks are not particularly good. Usually at best, Tormenting Voice nets you an extra-ish card that you will likely only be able to use the next turn(Or the turn after). At worst, it nets you couple lands. Woo. Lands you didn't have to naturally draw through, but you took a good chunk of your turn off to do so. You would likely have been better play a threat instead.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
Tormenting Voice is great but currently there is no great Shell for it. If you wanna go nuts with delve synergies, play a deck with 4 x Monastery Siege and 3 x Tormenting Voice and play a bunch of delve spells and Flamewake Phoenix. It's definitely a card that makes me wanna brew.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
and you stil used probably a whole turn to get only card quality.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
and you stil used probably a whole turn to get only card quality.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
and you stil used probably a whole turn to get only card quality.
You don't win the game by just having more cards. You win the game because you do have are relevant.
People harp on card advantage being important in the game without actually knowing *why* it's important. Simply having more cards than an opponent does not mean that you will, or should, be winning. Rather it is because those cards should represent relevant and meaningful options. Card advantage represents that you have more chances to find your relevant options and because it represents card quality.
You see this flaw in thinking that more cards=winning in mulliganing. A hand of spells and lands is not always keepable, regardless of the deck you are playing. It is often correctly to lose out on a card in your opener if the cards you have aren't going to get you there for a number of reasons. I play U/B control very often, and a hand of 3 lands, Downfalls, Dissolve, and Dig was often the most mull worthy hand I had even though it appeared good to casual observers. But for certain reasons, that sort of hand was not going to win me the game. It was far better to mull and get into a better hand for the match-up.
To liken it to other formats, look at Brainstorm. The card is card neutral in the "rawest" terms. It doesn't net you an extra card at all, it simply replaces itself in terms of card count. The reason why it is so potent, however, is that it represent a marked increase in card quality. Getting rid of 2 cards that aren't relevant (Or less relevant) at the moment from your hand is worth the price. Braintstorm function far more similar to Ancestral Recall than it does to Preordain(Pre-ordain is a fine card, obviously) in the hands of good players, because what Recall represents is an increase in options more than an increase in cards (It's not a perfect comparison for Recall, obviously; only that it functions similarly to it in general).
Equally, Voice when used correctly is more akin to a 2-mana Divination than it is to Wild Guess. Card Quality is vastly more important than Card Quantity. I would rather have pure card quality in every respect than have pure card quantity. Card quality wins games, card quantity on its own does not.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
This card is insanely good. I run 4 tormenting voice, 4 dig through time, 2 treasure cruise and a bunch of fetches, and I never, ever run out of cards. Any opening hand with castable tormenting voice is never a mulligan. I think this is literally the most underrated card in standard.
I think for alesha to be playable, the ability would have to have been free. It seems like too huge of an investment for a very small, very conditional payout. 2 turns and 5 mana to maayyyyyyyyybe reanimate a weenie? I don't get it really.
At the same casting cost, goblin rabblemaster just gives you the dudes for free, and synergises with them, and does it the turn it comes into play.
I've been brewing up a deck that seems someone similar to your idea, though I'm basically centering the deck around 1-drop, t2 akroan crusader, t3 goblin rabblemaster/monastery mentor, t4 brutal hordecheif and supplement everything with burn spells and soulfire grand master.
I also really like the idea of integrating some number of bloodsoaked champion and alesha, who smiles at death but I don't want to overfill the 3 drop slot.
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At 1 mana this is legacy playable as a sorcery but busted at instant. At 2 mana and instant or sorcery it doesn't remotely matter because in comparison to preordain, ponder, brainstorm, sensei's divining top, and all those other 1 mana blue cantrips it is bad. The worst part is that no matter the mana cost force of will trades at a 2 for 2 ratio with tormenting voice but force is free outside the 1 life paid at that point. If force of will could counter brainstorm in legacy and make them pitch a card but only on brainstorm it makes brainstorm far less good.
In an aggro deck I wouldn't run tormenting voice it costs too much mana and you're playing it over another spell. Sure it can hypothetically turn land flood into more business but it can just draw more lands or bricks whereas if you just have a solid card in its place said card should almost always be good.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I really like tormenting voice. It gives you a good way to filter through cards that isn't negative CA. Think of it as a Careful Study, but better. So, it's playable in Anny shell that would have wanted study. It could also be relevant for modern in the fact that you pitch before you draw (good for dredging), but that's not really relevant for standard. It does help build delve though, and let's you see more cards. So there should be a few different shells that would like this.
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I really like tormenting voice. It gives you a good way to filter through cards that isn't negative CA. Think of it as a Careful Study, but better. So, it's playable in Anny shell that would have wanted study. It could also be relevant for modern in the fact that you pitch before you draw (good for dredging), but that's not really relevant for standard. It does help build delve though, and let's you see more cards. So there should be a few different shells that would like this.
I wouldn't go that far with Careful Study; Study is used primarily to enable graveyard shenanigans, and it's difficult to beat out 2 cards to the yard at 1 mana (And in blue no less). Tormenting voice, however, may find some Modern Dredge home. Or not. I honestly have no idea if the deck even exists conceptually in Modern, even with GGT unbanned.
People are so dumb. I'm really getting tired of clueless players who tell me I shouldn't play this "bad card". They say I should play Sign in Blood or Read the Bones instead.. But their mind is too feeble to understand that Tormenting Voice is a discard outlet for reanimation and a delve enabler for Murderous Cut.
People are so dumb. I'm really getting tired of clueless players who tell me I shouldn't play this "bad card". They say I should play Sign in Blood or Read the Bones instead.. But their mind is too feeble to understand that Tormenting Voice is a discard outlet for reanimation and a delve enabler for Murderous Cut.
I'd play this card if it fit the deck. So judging it too hard may just show that they won't use it. I'd like it as a good pump for a Spellheart Chimera for example.
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In the middle of making a mardu tokens deck but I was wondering if Tormenting Voicewas a card I should put in the deck.
The point of the deck is to run cards such as Monastery Swiftspear and monastery mentor and a bunch of tokens to synergize with brutal hordechief.
Should I run Tormenting Voice as I believe running out of cards would be a problem for this deck?
Thank you!
Tormenting Voice doens't net you any cards. You play TV, discard a card, (-2 cards) and then draw two cards (+2 cards).
In an aggro deck, I would avoid taking a turn off to play this card.
It's probably fine in Rx Delve strategies (there aren't any Delve cards in R so you need to splash).
If you want to brew with this card, the SDC forum would be glad to look at a 60 card standard deck built around Tormenting Voice and it's interactions in standard.
Chandra, Pyromaster applies both pressure, triggers prowess, and will draw you cards. This is the card I'd play to draw me cards in an aggro deck.
Wild Guess has never been particularly playable in aggro decks outside of graveyard shenanigans.
If you are playing aggro, the idea is that your deck is basically creatures that turn sideways it doesn't really matter which one you draw so you don't really need card selection it is better to just have another creature that turns sideways.
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GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
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Of course, you're on the beatdown aggro path and Divination is not at all what you would want to do anyway. As others have said, Chandra is much better as it is vastly more versatile. I've often found that card drawers in more "pure" beatdown decks are not particularly good. Usually at best, Tormenting Voice nets you an extra-ish card that you will likely only be able to use the next turn(Or the turn after). At worst, it nets you couple lands. Woo. Lands you didn't have to naturally draw through, but you took a good chunk of your turn off to do so. You would likely have been better play a threat instead.
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just play read the bones if you want to draw cards^^
and you stil used probably a whole turn to get only card quality.
Card quality and 2 simian spirit guides.
You don't win the game by just having more cards. You win the game because you do have are relevant.
People harp on card advantage being important in the game without actually knowing *why* it's important. Simply having more cards than an opponent does not mean that you will, or should, be winning. Rather it is because those cards should represent relevant and meaningful options. Card advantage represents that you have more chances to find your relevant options and because it represents card quality.
You see this flaw in thinking that more cards=winning in mulliganing. A hand of spells and lands is not always keepable, regardless of the deck you are playing. It is often correctly to lose out on a card in your opener if the cards you have aren't going to get you there for a number of reasons. I play U/B control very often, and a hand of 3 lands, Downfalls, Dissolve, and Dig was often the most mull worthy hand I had even though it appeared good to casual observers. But for certain reasons, that sort of hand was not going to win me the game. It was far better to mull and get into a better hand for the match-up.
To liken it to other formats, look at Brainstorm. The card is card neutral in the "rawest" terms. It doesn't net you an extra card at all, it simply replaces itself in terms of card count. The reason why it is so potent, however, is that it represent a marked increase in card quality. Getting rid of 2 cards that aren't relevant (Or less relevant) at the moment from your hand is worth the price. Braintstorm function far more similar to Ancestral Recall than it does to Preordain(Pre-ordain is a fine card, obviously) in the hands of good players, because what Recall represents is an increase in options more than an increase in cards (It's not a perfect comparison for Recall, obviously; only that it functions similarly to it in general).
Equally, Voice when used correctly is more akin to a 2-mana Divination than it is to Wild Guess. Card Quality is vastly more important than Card Quantity. I would rather have pure card quality in every respect than have pure card quantity. Card quality wins games, card quantity on its own does not.
What's the rest of the deck do?
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At the same casting cost, goblin rabblemaster just gives you the dudes for free, and synergises with them, and does it the turn it comes into play.
I also really like the idea of integrating some number of bloodsoaked champion and alesha, who smiles at death but I don't want to overfill the 3 drop slot.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
this would be a slam dunk legacy staple at instant
In an aggro deck I wouldn't run tormenting voice it costs too much mana and you're playing it over another spell. Sure it can hypothetically turn land flood into more business but it can just draw more lands or bricks whereas if you just have a solid card in its place said card should almost always be good.
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If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I wouldn't go that far with Careful Study; Study is used primarily to enable graveyard shenanigans, and it's difficult to beat out 2 cards to the yard at 1 mana (And in blue no less). Tormenting voice, however, may find some Modern Dredge home. Or not. I honestly have no idea if the deck even exists conceptually in Modern, even with GGT unbanned.
I'd play this card if it fit the deck. So judging it too hard may just show that they won't use it. I'd like it as a good pump for a Spellheart Chimera for example.
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