GR Monsters was a popular archetype during RTR/Theros Standard, and it has had modest success since rotation.
The defining card of this archetype is Polukranos, World Eater with its "monstrous" ability allowing it to clear away blockers and attack for considerable damage. Stormbreath Dragon is another "monstrous" creature typically found in the deck. By playing mana creatures such as Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid, these powerful creatures can be accelerated out early, when they easily outclass opposing threats.
Vs jeskai. -2 nylea, god of the hunt -2 xenagos, god of revels -3 polukranos, world eater -1 hornet queen +4 mistcutter hydra +4nylea's disciple.......I take out the gods because in a burn match up, they are jut too slow and can be a dead draw a lot of time by not being a dedicated body and hornet queen's CMC is just too high for a deck that can burn out dorks.... Bringing in mistcutter hydra because they cant counter or charm them and haste can put a lot of pressure on them if youre able to hit one for a higher cost. Nylea's disciple provides the life gain you will need to stay alive and still provides 2G devotion!
My board seems over tweaked for some match ups. I believe setessan tactics deserves 2 spots in the 75, maybe in place of relcamation sage and back to nature. My list could also be overhauled for a lower CMC, somtimes 12 dorks and 4 courser leaves a lot to be desired... I dont run sarkhan because I believe that in GR monsters, Stormbreath is strictly better, and Nissa Doesnt have a home outside of a mono green deck in my own terrible opinions.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION I had the sideboard typed up and my power went out so my elaboration got a bit lazy:(
DANIEL SCHEID just won grand Prix LA with G/R Monsters !!! Here is his list:
Creatures (25)
(4x Elvish Mystic 4x Sylvan Caryatid 2x Rattleclaw Mystic 4x Courser of Kruphix 3x Polukranos, World Eater 1x Ashcloud Phoenix 4x Stormbreath Dragon 2x Genesis Hydra 1x Hornet Queen)
(Planeswalker (5) 3x Xenagos, the Reveler 2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker)
It should be noted that Brian Kibler played a RUG list at the GP this weekend. It's not a monsters list, but more of an aggro build. He went 9-0 on day one, and just rolled through folks all day. I am not sure about what happened to him on day two though
I am at a bit of an impasse in terms of which sort of monsters build to go with. I'm looking to support Sarkhan and Stormbreath, which we're equipped to do. I am just not sure whether to go pure RG, or go Temur for Savage Knuckleblade and the Temples. This is my current Temur Monsters build. One thing I also like about Temur is access to Temur Charm and Stubborn Denial. Charm seems like a good piece of removal, while Denial can be brought in as a source of defense vs the Mardus.
Rattleclaw replaces Mystic, since I am using 8 comes into play tapped lands. Seems like RG might be quicker, and you'd lose Temur Charm for Stoke the Flames, or something similar.
Honestly if you are finding yourself wanting to play Temur Monsters, you should search up Jeff Hoogland's Indiana States winning list. He calls it tempo,but at it's heart it's just a Monsters deck. I played it to a 9-2 record over the weekend. Losing in the finals of game day to mana screw both games, while prior to the finals I flooded more often than not and that is with 23 land.
I tried Kibler's version. I think I prefer Hoogland's build, but I don't have enough Rabbles or dragons to play it as listed.
The difference is the above list is more tempo and the one below is more aggro.
Like Kibler's list better as I don't really like Rabblemaster too much in a monster's deck over Ashcloud.
Windstorm? This card worth SB slot? It clears out Hornet Queen and her tokens, and also kills Mantis Rider and Hushwing Gryff will keeping our Dragon alive. It kills our Ashcloud but we just get it back so it seems decent.
Destructive Revelry is a must in the SB I feel going forward. So many Sidisi Whip or Reanimator decks flying around we need an answer to Whip, also stops Banishing Light and Suspension Field.
Bestowing either Fanatic or Rabble tends to be quite fun. Perhaps I should just stick with GR monsters if I'm interested in running Sarkhan and Xenagos alongside Stormbreath, Phoenix and Polly. Finding a competitive deck that supports those two (Sarkhan and Stormy) is my main goal for the format, and it seems like some form of Monsters would be best.
As an introduction, I've done a lot of the curating for both the RTR-THS Jund Monsters thread and the INN-RTR Gruul Midrange threads; these aggressive midrange decks from the past 2-2.5 years should inform a lot of where some of us want to be right now. In a heavy midrange metagame, I like being one of the most aggressive midrange decks that is asking questions instead of hoping to have the answers - especially on the play!
For reference, the beard was lost with this variation of the deck a couple weeks before rotation:
I tested several games against Abzan Midrange and Monored Aggro before registering the following 75 at a local SCG IQ this weekend. I figured to see several people on these archetypes and wanted something that was okay against both of these and able to capitalize on other midrange decks who are trying to over-indulge in brand new Khans cards. I went undefeated in 5 rounds of Swiss (1 intentional draw) but lost in the first round of the top 8 to arguably one of the best players here in central Kentucky.
Round 1: 2-0 over Mardu Midrange Crackling Doom is a pretty good new card to go with some of the Theros block cards in these colors. Bow of Nylea and Chandra, Pyromaster really helped me outgrind in game 2 to keep this from going to game 3.
Round 2: 2-1 over Sultai
Game 1 I don't see much from them except Master of Feasts (seems good in a world where a lot of players are drawn to two different 4/4 hasty red flyers that cost five to cast) and some removal. I assume it's some sort of control shell. Get smashed in game 2 as they show they are actually an aggro/tempo deck with bonus graveyard shenanigans. I revisit my sideboard and am able to keep them on the back foot for the entirety of game 3.
Round 3: 2-0 over Golgari Rock
Did not expect to have to navigate Reaper of the Wilds mirrors but get there with only some difficulty (Game 1 was closer than Game 2). The other pair of undefeated players draw.
Round 4: 2-1 over Abzan Midrange
I am the only undefeated player remaining - I offer the "intentional draw that you probably can't take?". The 2-0-1 opponent agrees they should decline. They win game 1 with a very aggressive creature-based start (making me wonder if they are actually an aggro deck). Game 2 is quickly over as a turn 2 Goblin Rabblemaster quickly takes over the board while they hit my hand with pinpoint discard - is okay when you are fast enough that you can't cast all your cards anyway. I re-offer the draw and he again declines - I win an extremely grindy game 3.
Round 5: Intentional Draw against Temur Monsters
Top 8
I lose 0-2 against another of the Abzan Midrange decks. I greedy mulligan to 6 in both games on the play looking for faster hands. He repeatedly has the answers and eventually stabilizes with Sorin, Solemn Visitor (much better than I originally thought!) gaining him lots of life then finishing me off in both games.
Specific Card Discussions Lightning Strike over Magma Jet because of the respect for the potential of Mantis Rider (Jeskai tempo just won SCG NJ). This card is supposed to partially fill the Ghor-Clan Rampager reach role against other midrange and control decks and help us not die quickly against R/x Aggro. I miss saving creatures in combat with pump and granting trample of course! The fourth strike might need to be another Crater's Claws though.
I had been planning to get super frisky and include a pair of Sagu Mauler as it seems good in a world ruled by green midrange and Hero's Downfall, but they were an easy cut when I did manage to get my hands on Sarkhan a couple hours before the tournament.
The most successful decks on the bigger stage feature much more than a splash of black and are still topping the curve with spells that cost 3RR - yet I was hesitant to run even the pair of Hero's Downfall.
I asked rujasu about moving it into here and possibly writing the GRx Aggressive Midrange primer. If none of the other regulars are already working on it, I'll try to write up something soon - I've done it before as you'll see under the spoiler.
I think it's a bit tricky to group the GRx Monsters decks right now because the game plan is considerably different for a lot of the lists. As I see it there are 3 archetypes currently with some blend between them:
1. Temur Tempo: This is Kibler/Hoogland Tempo builds. They approach it a bit differently but I think while Kibler could learn something from Hoogland's attention to the metagame his list and threat choices are ultimately better. Defining Cards: Savage Knuckleblade, Ashcloud Pheonix
2. GR Ramp: This is like the list that took down the GP a couple weeks back. Basically mini green devotion stopping at 2 Genesis Hydra + Hornet Queen. We've seen some recent adaptions to include blue. This is basically where I've been. Defining Cards: Xenagos, the Reveler, Genesis Hydra
3. GRx Grindy: Basically a try to continue on where monsters was last season by towing the line and just trying to push through with efficient removal and threats. I think this deck is very similar in how it plays to Abzan Aggro. Defining Cards: Stormbreath Dragon, Sarkhan Dragonspeaker
Now one could argue that the Temur and the Grindy lists are actually sort of similar, but the timing is so different the way they play out for all 3 lists. Boon Satyr is very strong in the Temur list but I doubt it is in a Jund list. Some people are building their Temur list like a Jund list too which is a consideration and I would place them under grindy. Naya lists are there too. One could argue what I'm calling Grindy is Monsters, and the first 2 are different categories. The reason I bring this up though is like Boon Satyr the card evaluation is completely different. Like I'm a gigantic fan of Gather Courage right now but it's a lot better in a list that cares about just building the tempo from protecting it's threats or fight out on board. I would never suggest it in a build that would like Thoughtseize. In fact I would imagine the matchups are different for a lot these lists. Like considerably from purely an archetypical standpoint.. Is Jeskai one of the worst matchups for all the decks? Is Abzan almost a bye? Control? I think there is a lot of room around here, but I wonder if we can reach a consensus of what we want to be doing and why? Otherwise I think this will be just a pit for a bunch of different decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
I think it's a bit tricky to group the GRx Monsters decks right now because the game plan is considerably different for a lot of the lists. As I see it there are 3 archetypes currently with some blend between them
....
Is Jeskai one of the worst matchups for all the decks? Is Abzan almost a bye? Control? I think there is a lot of room around here, but I wonder if we can reach a consensus of what we want to be doing and why? Otherwise I think this will be just a pit for a bunch of different decks.
I think Jeskai and Abzan are equally varied decks. Does Jeskai emphasize countermagic, burn, aggro creatures or flyers? It could key off of Dig Through Time or try to win as fast as possible. It could play Rabblemaster or Brimaz or Phoenix or Stormbreath or Roc. The matchups vary tremendously depending on the choices, and you can't answer for any specific GRx deck what its Jeskai match is like because it depends which Jeskai.
Does Abzan run Anafenza? Elf, Caryatid and Courser? Herald of Torment? Roc? Ajani and Elspeth? How much removal does it play? All these differences can make an aggro or midrange deck with different match advantages or disadvantages.
For what it's worth, playing a G/U/R deck I feel I can pick up ideas from B/G/U and U/R/W just as much as from GR monsters, though the Ferocious mechanic drives me a certain way.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Perhaps... I agree there is still a lot of bleed between them, but when I look at those I see there are basically 2 archetypes for Abzan and not counting Ascendancy combo one for Jeskai. I have seen a 2nd Jeskai approach (a control list) but I don't think it's an actual deck atleast yet. It isn't so much about cards as much about what the lists are trying to do. Like to me Kibler and Hoogland have been doing the same sort of thing even though they play different threats. The Jeskai list with Dig and the one with say Brimaz do have to play a bit different because of the cards but still doing the same sort of thing. It's more like the difference between the different variants of Caw Blade than the differences between White Weenie splash Green and GW Midrange. I expect most of this to resolve into cleaner divisions as time goes on mind you.
It's basically a GRx list like the GP list but brings in Boon Satyr from Kibler's list and a bit of permission and Nykthos (a card that is pretty easy in the 2 color lists). In so it plays like a hybrid of Green devotion and GRx Monsters except it has easy access to permission and Ascendancy so the control matchup is insanely good. I'm 11-2-0 against control so far and out of those I think I've only ever lost 5 games and (winning the other 22). I've been trouncing the green mirror and Abzan as well. Although I'd take any results there with a grain of salt because I tend to have an abnormally high win % in green mirrors (I've noted over the past 6 years). I have found Jeskai/Red aggro the most difficult matchup and chose my spells main to reflect making that better. The key is it plays a lot like Temur tempo in the first couple turns but then it doesn't run out of gas. It trades burn spells for more bodies and the ability to protect the ones you have. It hopes to open the tempo window longer slightly instead of getting down and then trying to Temur Charm Elspeth. That means it has to have the tools to beat Elspeth or Hornet Queen itself. Hence the green devotion angle.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
Boon gives you another piece of Ferocious...might Heir of the Wilds work well in place of your Rattleclaw Mystic? I might try Ashcloud over Polukranos, or split them to favor Ashcloud, since the ramp makes it really easy to Morph. Also, is Nissa, Worldwaker our best means of dealing with End Hostilities if we're in GR Devotion?
I play the Temur version of this deck. It's pretty close to Kibler's latest list.
Some questions:
1. Fanatic of Xenagos or no? It seems to smooth out draws that you might otherwise have to mulligan.
2. Arbor Colossus. He shores up both the Jeskai and Abzan matchups. Has anyone used him? I'm considered 2-3 in my sideboard to go big when needed.
3. Polukranos and Ashcloud Phoenix. Should both of these be 4? I feel like 3 each is better.
I'd say no fanatic. Smart opponents will not let you benefit from its effect. Yes, I like Arbor in the SB. No more than three Polukranos, maybe a 2-2 split of Polukranos/Ashcloud. Here is my current build:
I'd say no fanatic. Smart opponents will not let you benefit from its effect. Yes, I like Arbor in the SB. No more than three Polukranos, maybe a 2-2 split of Polukranos/Ashcloud. Here is my current build:
I know you're not on the Temur version, but what are your (or anyone's) thoughts about Temur Charm? I've seen it at 1-2 in some lists recently, and completely absent in others.
I feel like there are about 8-10 slots for noncreature spells in my list. Right now I'm 4 Crater's Claws, 3 Lightning Strike, and 2 Temur Charm. However, I'm thinking of going to 4 Lightning Strike and 4 Crater's Claws. I'm so not sure about the charm!
I dont like Charm myself. Too expensive for each effect, and having to use it slows us down. Pump+fight costs G normally, mana leak compares to Disdainful Stroke and Stubborn Denial, and "cant be blocked by weenies" compares to Barrage of Boulders, Roar of Challenge, and Icy Blast as a decidedly inferior effect.
So it's mediocre game 1 (though always relevant), and always sided out. I say take its main spot and give it to your best sideboard card, so you have stronger siding options. I choose 2 Icy Blast, 4 Stubborn, and 4 Craters for my main spells.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Charm is a three mana removal spell. Crackling Doom is a three mana removal spell. You play Temur Charm, Lightning Strike and Crater's Claws are your mainboard spells in Temur. Charm is a counter in a pinch. Then, Charm has the push effect you describe, lajube.
I wanna know one thing right now? Why all the Craters Claws? Fireballs have generally never been that good in constructed, and the extra 2 damage doesnt seem to be much of a difference. I mean if you have ferocious you get a sorcery speed Shock? So what? I see no reason for any list to play less than 4 Sarkhan/Stormbreath while playing the full 4 copies of Crater's Claws. I understand the presence of Xenagos in your main would make the card slightly better, but in many more scenarios, an un-answered Stormbreath is going to deal WAY more dmg than an un-answered Crater's Claws. Can anyone explain why we are supposed to be playing 4 copies?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current standard decks:
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
Charm is a three mana removal spell. Crackling Doom is a three mana removal spell. You play Temur Charm, Lightning Strike and Crater's Claws are your mainboard spells in Temur. Charm is a counter in a pinch. Then, Charm has the push effect you describe, lajube.
Kibler was never that impressed with Temur Charm either, and I think he is right. Thats probably the next card on the cutting board, right up there with Boon Satyr in Temur Monsters lists. Stubborn Denial has been testing way better in the main, especially in a mostly mid range format, where even the aggro decks are running healthy amounts of non creatures to get by Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix. It's just been absolutely incredible each time I've cast it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current standard decks:
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Link to GRx Monsters Primer!
G/R/x Monsters
GR Monsters was a popular archetype during RTR/Theros Standard, and it has had modest success since rotation.
The defining card of this archetype is Polukranos, World Eater with its "monstrous" ability allowing it to clear away blockers and attack for considerable damage. Stormbreath Dragon is another "monstrous" creature typically found in the deck. By playing mana creatures such as Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid, these powerful creatures can be accelerated out early, when they easily outclass opposing threats.
4 sylvan caryatid
4 voyaging satyr
4 courser of kruphix
3 polukranos, world eater
4 genesis hydra
1 hornet queen
2 nylea, god of the hunt
3 stormbreath dragon
2 xenagos, god of revels
3 arbor colossus
3 xenagos, the reveler
4 mountain
3 nykthos, shrine to nyx
4 temple of abandon
4 wooded foothills
4 mistcutter hydra
4 nylea's disciple
1 reclamation sage
2 scuttling doom engine
1 back to nature
3 arc lightning
Sideboard tech
Vs jeskai. -2 nylea, god of the hunt -2 xenagos, god of revels -3 polukranos, world eater -1 hornet queen +4 mistcutter hydra +4nylea's disciple.......I take out the gods because in a burn match up, they are jut too slow and can be a dead draw a lot of time by not being a dedicated body and hornet queen's CMC is just too high for a deck that can burn out dorks.... Bringing in mistcutter hydra because they cant counter or charm them and haste can put a lot of pressure on them if youre able to hit one for a higher cost. Nylea's disciple provides the life gain you will need to stay alive and still provides 2G devotion!
VS Abzan Some times I wont sideboard because I dont have a lot for them, In some match ups Ill side out 2 polukranos, world eater and in scuttling doomengine because of them possibly bringing in end hostillities
VS Mardu -2 xenagos, god of revels -1 hornet queen +3 arc lightning and some matches, -2 polukranos +2 scuttling doomengine
VS aggro -2 xenagos, god of revels -1 nylea, god of the hunt -1 hornet queen -3 arbor colossus +4 nylea's disciple +3 arc lightning
VS control -3 polukranos, world eater -1 hornet queen -2 arbor colossus +2 scuttling doomengine +4 mistcutter hydra
My board seems over tweaked for some match ups. I believe setessan tactics deserves 2 spots in the 75, maybe in place of relcamation sage and back to nature. My list could also be overhauled for a lower CMC, somtimes 12 dorks and 4 courser leaves a lot to be desired... I dont run sarkhan because I believe that in GR monsters, Stormbreath is strictly better, and Nissa Doesnt have a home outside of a mono green deck in my own terrible opinions.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION I had the sideboard typed up and my power went out so my elaboration got a bit lazy:(
Creatures (25)
(4x Elvish Mystic 4x Sylvan Caryatid 2x Rattleclaw Mystic 4x Courser of Kruphix 3x Polukranos, World Eater 1x Ashcloud Phoenix 4x Stormbreath Dragon 2x Genesis Hydra 1x Hornet Queen)
(Planeswalker (5) 3x Xenagos, the Reveler 2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker)
(Sorcerys and Instants (7) 3x Crater's Claws Instant 4x Lightning Strike)
Lands (23)
(4x Temple of Abandon 4x Wooded Foothills 1x Windswept Heath 1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx 7x Forest 6x Mountain)
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mmlmC6ZM9M
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
UBR Sedris
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage
UB The Scarab God
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer
WU Dragonlord Ojutai
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Boon Satyr
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm
4 Crater's Claws
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Magma Spray
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Stormbreath Dragon
EDIT: It looks like he placed 9th-16th. Congrats to Kibler for the top16 finish!
DCI Level 1 Judge
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Spells
3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm
2 Crater's Claws
Lands
4 Frontier Bivouac
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Mountain
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Shivan Reef
Rattleclaw replaces Mystic, since I am using 8 comes into play tapped lands. Seems like RG might be quicker, and you'd lose Temur Charm for Stoke the Flames, or something similar.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
SPELLS (10)
1 Stoke the Flames
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Temur Charm
2 Void Snare
2 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
3 Shivan Reef
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Hornet Nest
3 Disdainful Stroke
3 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Spray
1 Stoke the Flames
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Void Snare
If you play this, cut Kiora.
I tried Kibler's version. I think I prefer Hoogland's build, but I don't have enough Rabbles or dragons to play it as listed.
The difference is the above list is more tempo and the one below is more aggro.
Creature (26)
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heir of the Wilds
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Boon Satyr
3 Polukranos, World Eater
Sorcery (4)
4 Crater's Claws
Instant (6)
3 Lightning Strike
3 Temur Charm
3 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Yavimaya Coast
60 Cards
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Magma Spray
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
3 Hunt the Hunter
2 Stormbreath Dragon
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Windstorm? This card worth SB slot? It clears out Hornet Queen and her tokens, and also kills Mantis Rider and Hushwing Gryff will keeping our Dragon alive. It kills our Ashcloud but we just get it back so it seems decent.
Destructive Revelry is a must in the SB I feel going forward. So many Sidisi Whip or Reanimator decks flying around we need an answer to Whip, also stops Banishing Light and Suspension Field.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/248948#online
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/248564#online
Trample on Fanatic seems good with bestowed Boon Satyr, Chandra also seems very good to get attackers through.
I asked rujasu about moving it into here and possibly writing the GRx Aggressive Midrange primer. If none of the other regulars are already working on it, I'll try to write up something soon - I've done it before as you'll see under the spoiler.
1. Temur Tempo: This is Kibler/Hoogland Tempo builds. They approach it a bit differently but I think while Kibler could learn something from Hoogland's attention to the metagame his list and threat choices are ultimately better. Defining Cards: Savage Knuckleblade, Ashcloud Pheonix
2. GR Ramp: This is like the list that took down the GP a couple weeks back. Basically mini green devotion stopping at 2 Genesis Hydra + Hornet Queen. We've seen some recent adaptions to include blue. This is basically where I've been. Defining Cards: Xenagos, the Reveler, Genesis Hydra
3. GRx Grindy: Basically a try to continue on where monsters was last season by towing the line and just trying to push through with efficient removal and threats. I think this deck is very similar in how it plays to Abzan Aggro. Defining Cards: Stormbreath Dragon, Sarkhan Dragonspeaker
Now one could argue that the Temur and the Grindy lists are actually sort of similar, but the timing is so different the way they play out for all 3 lists. Boon Satyr is very strong in the Temur list but I doubt it is in a Jund list. Some people are building their Temur list like a Jund list too which is a consideration and I would place them under grindy. Naya lists are there too. One could argue what I'm calling Grindy is Monsters, and the first 2 are different categories. The reason I bring this up though is like Boon Satyr the card evaluation is completely different. Like I'm a gigantic fan of Gather Courage right now but it's a lot better in a list that cares about just building the tempo from protecting it's threats or fight out on board. I would never suggest it in a build that would like Thoughtseize. In fact I would imagine the matchups are different for a lot these lists. Like considerably from purely an archetypical standpoint.. Is Jeskai one of the worst matchups for all the decks? Is Abzan almost a bye? Control? I think there is a lot of room around here, but I wonder if we can reach a consensus of what we want to be doing and why? Otherwise I think this will be just a pit for a bunch of different decks.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
I think Jeskai and Abzan are equally varied decks. Does Jeskai emphasize countermagic, burn, aggro creatures or flyers? It could key off of Dig Through Time or try to win as fast as possible. It could play Rabblemaster or Brimaz or Phoenix or Stormbreath or Roc. The matchups vary tremendously depending on the choices, and you can't answer for any specific GRx deck what its Jeskai match is like because it depends which Jeskai.
Does Abzan run Anafenza? Elf, Caryatid and Courser? Herald of Torment? Roc? Ajani and Elspeth? How much removal does it play? All these differences can make an aggro or midrange deck with different match advantages or disadvantages.
For what it's worth, playing a G/U/R deck I feel I can pick up ideas from B/G/U and U/R/W just as much as from GR monsters, though the Ferocious mechanic drives me a certain way.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
These days I've been playing this:
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mystery
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Frontier Biovac
2 Mana Confluence
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures(28):
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Boon Satyr
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Arbor Colossus
2 Genesis Hydra
1 Hornet Queen
2 Gather Courage
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Crater's Claw
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Gather Courage
2 Hunt the Hunter
2 Scouring Sands
3 Temur Ascendancy
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Polis Crusher
3 Nylea's Disciple
It's basically a GRx list like the GP list but brings in Boon Satyr from Kibler's list and a bit of permission and Nykthos (a card that is pretty easy in the 2 color lists). In so it plays like a hybrid of Green devotion and GRx Monsters except it has easy access to permission and Ascendancy so the control matchup is insanely good. I'm 11-2-0 against control so far and out of those I think I've only ever lost 5 games and (winning the other 22). I've been trouncing the green mirror and Abzan as well. Although I'd take any results there with a grain of salt because I tend to have an abnormally high win % in green mirrors (I've noted over the past 6 years). I have found Jeskai/Red aggro the most difficult matchup and chose my spells main to reflect making that better. The key is it plays a lot like Temur tempo in the first couple turns but then it doesn't run out of gas. It trades burn spells for more bodies and the ability to protect the ones you have. It hopes to open the tempo window longer slightly instead of getting down and then trying to Temur Charm Elspeth. That means it has to have the tools to beat Elspeth or Hornet Queen itself. Hence the green devotion angle.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Some questions:
1. Fanatic of Xenagos or no? It seems to smooth out draws that you might otherwise have to mulligan.
2. Arbor Colossus. He shores up both the Jeskai and Abzan matchups. Has anyone used him? I'm considered 2-3 in my sideboard to go big when needed.
3. Polukranos and Ashcloud Phoenix. Should both of these be 4? I feel like 3 each is better.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any replies.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Genesis Hydra
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Crater's Claws
Planeswalkers
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Lands
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
8 Forest
7 Mountain
I know you're not on the Temur version, but what are your (or anyone's) thoughts about Temur Charm? I've seen it at 1-2 in some lists recently, and completely absent in others.
I feel like there are about 8-10 slots for noncreature spells in my list. Right now I'm 4 Crater's Claws, 3 Lightning Strike, and 2 Temur Charm. However, I'm thinking of going to 4 Lightning Strike and 4 Crater's Claws. I'm so not sure about the charm!
So it's mediocre game 1 (though always relevant), and always sided out. I say take its main spot and give it to your best sideboard card, so you have stronger siding options. I choose 2 Icy Blast, 4 Stubborn, and 4 Craters for my main spells.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo
Kibler was never that impressed with Temur Charm either, and I think he is right. Thats probably the next card on the cutting board, right up there with Boon Satyr in Temur Monsters lists. Stubborn Denial has been testing way better in the main, especially in a mostly mid range format, where even the aggro decks are running healthy amounts of non creatures to get by Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix. It's just been absolutely incredible each time I've cast it.
Gruul Aggro
EDH General:
Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Modern
Jeskai Control
Jeskai Midrange
Affinity
Esper Teachings
Tribal Zoo