Hi, i been stalking this thread lately and i must ask: what do you think about the impact of PTDTK results on the metagame, and particularly against our deck (i play this too clearly).
i'll have to dig through this thread, i gave up on assendancy combo two weeks ago lol, but i was playing the same old clunky mill deck screwed myself.
Im "new" back into magic since urzas block and need to understand this lastest loop you are talking about in the decklist above. i'll keep reading, intersting thoughts though, thanks for sharing.
Hi, i been stalking this thread lately and i must ask: what do you think about the impact of PTDTK results on the metagame, and particularly against our deck (i play this too clearly).
UB and RDW are awful matchups for us.
I expect the metagame to be dominated by (evenly split) UB control, Red aggro, and Green Ramp decks after the pro tour with Abzan and Jeskai variants taking a lesser role in the format, at least for the next few weeks. As for the UB matchup, I have found it to be very favorable, but I am hearing that a lot of people have trouble with it. It might just be that I play against bad control players, that I get lucky a lot, or that I am doing something right that nobody else thinks to do... Either way I view it as a favorable matchup. The green ramp decks are basically byes, especially since most don't have any early pressure other than boon satyr and maybe 2-3 sideboard enchantment answers. The mono red matchup has felt more play/draw dependent than anything else, and the matchup does feel favorable if we are on the play. I like my sideboard plan against it and we even gain Surge of Righteousness from DTK to help with the race. Again, I feel like my sideboard plan with seeker of the way gives me an edge in the matchup that most combo players don't get. Overall I think that this metagame is far more favorable than the pre-DTK meta for us. I will get a chance to test my theories at SCG providence in a week so we will see how it goes. I am also testing putting some dragons in my build, 1 mainboard and 1 side Dragonlord Ojutai (for the favorable interaction with ascendancy's untap trigger) and 2 sideboard Icefall Regent. They are mainly for the midrange/control matchup to stress their answers, mainly their counterspells. I don't know how well they will work yet, but I have had good results from ojutai last FNM. Free Anticipates on a practically hexproof body are nice
One good thing to come out of Pro Tour Dragons is the dearth of Crackling Doom among the top decks. Mardu midrange was one of our worst matchups, but it seems to have fallen out of favor. UB is tough but beatable, RDW is a bit tougher since we have a lot of ETB lands and painlands. Plan ahead for a specific sideboard plan against those decks and stick to it.
Shafft, the latest loop involves Den Protector and Twinflame. Assuming you know the loops to draw your deck with Dragon Mantle and to generate infinite mana with Briber's Purse, the new loop involves having a Twinflame in the graveyard with Ascendancy and mana dorks out with one of them having Helix power. So what you do is use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it. When it flips face up, you can use the trigger to return Twinflame. Cast Twinflame on Den Protector to make a copy of it. Then use the Helix'd dork to return Den Protector your hand, then use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it to return Twinflame. When you cast Twinflame this time around you can untap your Helix dork and loop everything as much as you want. You end up with a million hasty Den Protectors and attack for the win.
Narex, I love the idea of Dragonlord Ojutai. I might have to try that out to spring a surprise on the LGS. If there ends up being a prevalence of mono red strategies I may have to switch over to your game plan. Good luck at Providence!
I did a search for Retraction Helix on the Standard decklists that were posted and the only thing that came up was Piotr Glogowski's 18-20 point list. His list maindecked Nyx-Fleece Ram and relied on only Sylvan Caryatid as its sole mana dork and cut Dragon Mantle, instead opting for Treasure Cruise to power draws. He actually went for 4 Briber's Purse and 2 Altar of the Brood, no Den Protector. Of note is the Reviving Melody in the sideboard, which seems like a good way to fight discard. He also maindecked 2 Swan Song.
Dragons gave us Anticipate, which is the biggest change I think. We have an instant speed spell that lets us dig deeper into our deck at a good price. I have run into the situation where I wish I could keep two cards instead of one, which can be a little aggravating at times. But the good outweighs the bad for Anticipate.
I think that the most important change in Glogowski's list is 4 main Taigam's Scheming which digs deep for caryatid and ascendancy pre combo and helix/purse during. It also works great with 6 delve spells.
Shafft, the latest loop involves Den Protector and Twinflame. Assuming you know the loops to draw your deck with Dragon Mantle and to generate infinite mana with Briber's Purse, the new loop involves having a Twinflame in the graveyard with Ascendancy and mana dorks out with one of them having Helix power. So what you do is use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it. When it flips face up, you can use the trigger to return Twinflame. Cast Twinflame on Den Protector to make a copy of it. Then use the Helix'd dork to return Den Protector your hand, then use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it to return Twinflame. When you cast Twinflame this time around you can untap your Helix dork and loop everything as much as you want. You end up with a million hasty Den Protectors and attack for the win.
Narex, I love the idea of Dragonlord Ojutai. I might have to try that out to spring a surprise on the LGS. If there ends up being a prevalence of mono red strategies I may have to switch over to your game plan. Good luck at Providence!
Thanks Grey, that makes sense now. I did know about infinite mana, i just never really did anything with it, i always just milled or pumped up and swung with something if my mill combo went away. What got me looking into this site was recently, i screwed up during sideboard, long story short, i literally didnt have a win con left in my deck after turn two commune with the gods and chucking two altars in the trash... got me to realize, i really need to learn the standard card list better and learn what other ways to play the deck are.
Glogowski's list seems interesting, it is similar to what I was running before I added twinflames. Out of curiosity what seems to be the problem that everybody has with the UB matchup. I usually find it pretty simple to assemble ~2 swansongs by turn 6 and go for the combo before they have triple counterspell mana up, or I can just wait until they tap lower than 6 for a threat or a perilous vault. Overall our counterspells are more efficient in mana cost and we have more ways of digging to make sure that we get them. Also with the mono-caryatid version a lot of their deck is full of blank spells. Game one usually relies on luck and making sure that you hit multiple ascendancy's but otherwise the matchup has always felt favorable to me. I'm really just wondering what the difference is between everyone else's UB matchup and mine.
I've found Jeskai Ascendancy Combo to be interesting in the fact that while there is a core to the deck (4 Jeskai Ascendancy, 4 Retraction Helix, 4 Sylvan Caryatid, Dragon Mantle and/or Briber's Purse), there is room for a lot of customization based on your personal preferences. Past combo decks like Dragonstorm and Heartbeat Combo were very tight in their decklists and manabases, while this combo has several options which can make it hard.
In my experience against UB control, Game 1 is a coinflip on assembling enough copies of Ascendancy to fight through counters. They do tend to have a lot of dead spells like Hero's Downfall and Bile Blight stranded in their hand. But after sideboarding I've been hit with Negate, Silumgar's Scorn and Nullify even. I've also lost when they get 2+ discard spells early and land an early Ashiok which forces me to combo earlier than I would like and I get ultimate'd out of the game. But maybe I've just played the combo so much that the control players in my area know how to play the matchup.
When i first came back to it after throwing the game away, that night i came home and went to a red stratagey and it seemed to work out ok in play testing against friends, never tried it at FNM though, i have thought about putting it together again and trying it out... Im probably an idiot though... so... ha
I've decided to join several of us in cutting mana dorks from the deck, I'm dropping down to just a set of Caryatid and a set of Rattleclaw Mystic for this week and we'll see how it goes. I'm also conflicted over land numbers, I've been running 22 but I think 20 looks good on paper.
I have been running happily with 20 lands in my version. As for the 0 mana artifacts, I have actually moved to a 2 Briber's Purse 1 Spidersilk Net split. The net is to block dragons with caryatids and protection from anger of the gods if that ever comes up. Overall, the matchups that I felt crypt helped with were already favorable and it seemed better to have the option to stall, especially against a deck like UW Heroic where you can easily shut them down with a simple Briber's Purse.
As for my version of the deck, I have been thinking a lot about it and have come to the following list given what I expect to be the meta for the first week or two after the pro tour.
I added token generators again as a response to Foul-Tongue Invocation and Secure the Wastes seemed like the best one for the deck, compared to the other instant speed alternative being Raise the Alarm which would cost the same to counter an edict effect but is considerably . I figured I would take everyone's word for how bad the UB control and Red Aggro matchups were so I adjusted my sideboard to answer those decks better. Hooded Hydra and the two Negates seemed better than the 2 Icefall Regents and the extra Ojutai's command that I had there and the Hornet Nests almost never did anything. I will consider other things like Kiora, the Crashing Wave in the Hydra slot but overall this seems well positioned for the current meta of UB, RDW, and RG dragons. I like the idea of devoting half of my sideboard to control and half to aggro because almost all cards for the extreme control/aggro decks are still fairly well positioned against the sort-of-controlling/sort-of-aggro decks so we are not particularly soft to the rest of the meta by doing this. Also, please tell me if you think that I am overlooking a significant part of the meta in this analysis and how you would change the deck if you think I am, as I would really like to optimize the list by SCG Providence. Thank you all for the help!
oskar, Tormod's Crypt is a possibility, the problem is that if you crack it you lose a combo piece. Briber's Purse buys you some time and stays on the field as a combo piece for later so that's why it's the favored 0 mana artifact at the moment. But if delve decks become very popular then it may be correct to slot in some Crypts. The announcer did say Nam Song Wook and Lee Shi Tian are teammates so they probably played a similar if not the same list.
gxmiter, the manabase and deck numbers still confuse me. It's like we don't have enough and too many slots all at once. Let me know if you figure it out, ha ha.
I'm so glad that this thread got a lot of new faces (or avatars )
Since the Gxx matchups are quite easy (GW Devotion, Abzan and maybe Temur or RG Monsters), I think that the SB should be geared to fight Rxx decks (Sligh, Jeskai, Boros?) and UB Control. This deck can play any nonblack card, so I ask myself:
-What cards or strategies beat Rxx decks and UB Control?
-What cards from those decks beat Jeskai Ascendancy?
This deck needs 11-12 SB cards (besides 4-3 Swan Song, a must if you ask me) to improve the bad matchups. Ojutai's Command still gives me hope: it may provide some air against aggressive decks and being an instant 2x1 is good vs Control.
@tw0as: If you are looking forward to the GP Buenos Aires, the meta is usually aggro and midrange (day 1). I wouldn't expect UB Control to be popular.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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I know the meta in Bs.As. i live here after all n__n
About the SB strategy i'm looking (besides the 3/4 swan songs) to use 60% slots in UB and the others in agro matchups, after all we just need to slow them a little to combo off . Still working in the idea of a transformational sideboard , but i cant find somthing that convices me
Those are the basic ideas behind my latest list that I posted here. I devoted 8 slots to aggro (though I would board less on the play) and 7 slots to control. As for transformation, between the Secure the Wastes and Dragonlord Ojutais, and the sideboard Hooded Hydra, I think that we can reasonably run against them without sticking the combo, but we still have the option to if we see the chance. I don't think that it is the most efficient board plan possible for transforming, but it seems very potent with a lot of difficult to answer threats. It is worthy to note that many of those cards will overlap with other matchups. For example, the Seismic Ruptures and Surge of Righteousness seem good against some green devotion variants while the transformative sideboard creatures overlap with our Abzan control plan. I like having more cards for aggro because we need to see them earlier, even if we only need to see 1-2.
So that's like 7 cards for Control, 4/5 vs Aggro, and 4/3 Swan Song. These are the cards I like right now for the SB:
-Ojutai's Command, as mentioned before: 4 life and returning a burned dude vs Rxx, or return+draw vs UB Control.
-Nyx-Fleeced Ram: can buy some time, gain some life, and still combo off with Helix+Purse.
-Arashin Cleric: immediate lifegain and can kill a creature in combat, but smaller butt.
-Seismic Rupture/Arc Lightning: to sweep the board, maybe Rupture is the better one.
-Surrak Dragonclaw: Flash + can't be countered against Control, and can be a decent clock.
-Pearl Lake Ancient: similar to Surrak, but also has pseudo-hexproof. I don't like it that much...
-Prognostic Sphinx: Hard to kill and block, and the scry is really nice.
-Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Narset Transcendent: against control, they are "cheap" PWs that can generate some CA and even ult in 3 turns.
-Xenagos, the Reveler: Satyr Bitterblossom that can be Downfalled, an aggressive aproach.
-Dragonlord Ojutai: nice protection, and the free Anticipate is better than scry 3 most of the times. Maybe an upgrade to Sphinx.
Regarding the Control matchup, I think that the idea is having things they can't answer/don't have the right answer in hand. Against aggro, surviving is key.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
I fear UB far more than Mono-Red. The new Pyroclasm effect out of the board beats the stuffing out of them, and they don't pack a ton of disruption (though, sadly, Roast can kill Nyx-Fleece Ram). Their Dash creatures are annoying, though. UB remains as difficult a match as ever, sadly, and may be even worse now that they're adding dragons to the mix.
Narex, I took your list out for a spin at a small 16 man tourney last night, except I moved a Dig Through Time to the sideboard, taking out a Negate and putting Tormenting Voice in that slot. My reasoning is that without both Commune with the Gods and Taigam's Scheming a double Dig Through Time is bit clunky. Against control I want a 4th Dig, however.
I didn't take a whole lot of notes but here's some quick thoughts:
-I liked your manabase. It was consistent and I even won a game because I had the white mana off a Monastery to put a Caryatid into my graveyard off a Taigam's Scheming then I used Ojutai's Command to counter my opponent's Siege Rhino and bring back Caryatid, combo off next turn.
-Dragonlord Ojutai shocked one of my opponents. He even tried to Hero's Downfall the Ojutai when I had Ascendancy out and plenty of mana untapped. I played a Secure the Wastes for one and he was like, "Oh......."
-Kinda random but I actually lost to a budget mono white Heroic deck. Turns out T2 Akroan Skyguard, T3 Artful Maneuver, T4 Rebound + another Artful Maneuver kills pretty fast.
-I played against the Rg aggro deck splashing for Atarka's Command. That makes the matchup a lot tougher, we can't block any 2 power guys with Caryatid for fear of the Command and Ojutai's Command lifegain can be neutralized. I even had Seismic Rupture for two Eidolons but taking 4 points to do so let him burn me despite the fact that I had a Swan Swong for one of three Stokes.
-Seeker of the Way won me a game against Jeskai Tokens. I gained 4 life which was the exact breathing room against a third Stoke the Flames.
I agree with everyone that we should slant our SB against UB control and red aggro. We have fairly good matchups against Sultai and Abzan matchups. As far as what to sideboard, it comes down to personal preference. I am becoming a believer in Dragonlord Ojutai at this point, as it definitely provides an opportunity to switch to a more of a control role with a strong finisher.
I'm glad that you liked my build of the deck. About the RDW match that you had, I do generally feel like we have trouble with an aggressive eidolon draw, but with an abundance of removal in the board, I feel like we can usually beet one pretty consistently. This is especially true if we can setup an early game that involved a Seeker of the Way with constant lifelink. Are there any changes that you would make to the deck after playing it, other than the one Dig Through Time moving to the board?
kanister, great job on the Pro Tour! I don't think you are missing anything. One reason to play Twinflame with Dragon Mantle is that you can Twinflame Caryatid and proceed to go off and draw out your deck (we should be able to cast anything with two Caryatids out). I'm not a fan of Lee Shi Tian's version with Rattleclaw Mystic and Voyaging Satyr since it does rely on sticking a mana dork. I think they upside of it, however, is the ability to use Tormenting Voice to get rid of duplicate pieces.
I don't think there's anything wrong with cutting Dragon Mantles and going with Nyx Fleece Ram. It makes the deck more consistent and you know what you have to dig for. At GP Memphis I won a couple of games with just Nyx Fleece Ram.
If you don't mind me asking, how would you change your list after the Pro Tour? And what's your sideboarding plan against mono-red and UB control, since those tend to be our toughest matchups?
While we are on the topic of Dromoka's Command, Dragon Mantle helps there too. That was my main reason for adding the 4th one. It also lets us take a combo piece with commune, not relevant in my list, but it can be in yours. As for the other differences between our lists, I really don't know which one is better. I have seen that playing a lot of digging spells can make the deck extremely consistent but I feel like commune with the gods is an extremely sub-optimal digging spell and that it would be too late to change my deck so drastically so close to a major tournament like the scg. I may consider testing your list afterward and audible to that for the upcoming grand prix in my area, but for now I will stick close to my list. Also it is worth noting that Twinflame offers another kill involving Den Protector and it can help in casting a dig through time when digging for the combo and that the Dragon Mantle combo, considering that the mantle replaces itself, costs the same amount of cards and gives a much more powerful effect.
I have had it be relevant before to, for example, kill them before they can untap to play around a burn spell or mill them and hold up swan song. It is true that it will probably not come up very often, but it does happen and it pays to have the Mantle combo in that scenario.
Against control Schemings are better than Commune of the Gods becouse Commune without Nyx-Fleece Ram will have not enough targets to hit. And Scheming can set up all4 parts of combo, Delve Spells, counters etc. Scheming is just a better card.
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UB and RDW are awful matchups for us.
Im "new" back into magic since urzas block and need to understand this lastest loop you are talking about in the decklist above. i'll keep reading, intersting thoughts though, thanks for sharing.
I expect the metagame to be dominated by (evenly split) UB control, Red aggro, and Green Ramp decks after the pro tour with Abzan and Jeskai variants taking a lesser role in the format, at least for the next few weeks. As for the UB matchup, I have found it to be very favorable, but I am hearing that a lot of people have trouble with it. It might just be that I play against bad control players, that I get lucky a lot, or that I am doing something right that nobody else thinks to do... Either way I view it as a favorable matchup. The green ramp decks are basically byes, especially since most don't have any early pressure other than boon satyr and maybe 2-3 sideboard enchantment answers. The mono red matchup has felt more play/draw dependent than anything else, and the matchup does feel favorable if we are on the play. I like my sideboard plan against it and we even gain Surge of Righteousness from DTK to help with the race. Again, I feel like my sideboard plan with seeker of the way gives me an edge in the matchup that most combo players don't get. Overall I think that this metagame is far more favorable than the pre-DTK meta for us. I will get a chance to test my theories at SCG providence in a week so we will see how it goes. I am also testing putting some dragons in my build, 1 mainboard and 1 side Dragonlord Ojutai (for the favorable interaction with ascendancy's untap trigger) and 2 sideboard Icefall Regent. They are mainly for the midrange/control matchup to stress their answers, mainly their counterspells. I don't know how well they will work yet, but I have had good results from ojutai last FNM. Free Anticipates on a practically hexproof body are nice
Shafft, the latest loop involves Den Protector and Twinflame. Assuming you know the loops to draw your deck with Dragon Mantle and to generate infinite mana with Briber's Purse, the new loop involves having a Twinflame in the graveyard with Ascendancy and mana dorks out with one of them having Helix power. So what you do is use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it. When it flips face up, you can use the trigger to return Twinflame. Cast Twinflame on Den Protector to make a copy of it. Then use the Helix'd dork to return Den Protector your hand, then use some of your infinite mana to cast Den Protector face down, then megamorph it to return Twinflame. When you cast Twinflame this time around you can untap your Helix dork and loop everything as much as you want. You end up with a million hasty Den Protectors and attack for the win.
Narex, I love the idea of Dragonlord Ojutai. I might have to try that out to spring a surprise on the LGS. If there ends up being a prevalence of mono red strategies I may have to switch over to your game plan. Good luck at Providence!
I did a search for Retraction Helix on the Standard decklists that were posted and the only thing that came up was Piotr Glogowski's 18-20 point list. His list maindecked Nyx-Fleece Ram and relied on only Sylvan Caryatid as its sole mana dork and cut Dragon Mantle, instead opting for Treasure Cruise to power draws. He actually went for 4 Briber's Purse and 2 Altar of the Brood, no Den Protector. Of note is the Reviving Melody in the sideboard, which seems like a good way to fight discard. He also maindecked 2 Swan Song.
Dragons gave us Anticipate, which is the biggest change I think. We have an instant speed spell that lets us dig deeper into our deck at a good price. I have run into the situation where I wish I could keep two cards instead of one, which can be a little aggravating at times. But the good outweighs the bad for Anticipate.
4 Mana Confluence
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mistery
4 Dragon Mantle
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Briber's Purse
1 Altar of the Brood
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
3 Voyaging Satyr
2 Anticipate
2 Dig Trough Time
4 Retraction Helix
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Commune With the Gods
3 Swan Song
3 Bassara Tower Archer
3 Nyx Fleece Ram
3 Seismic Rupture
2 Astral Cornucopia
1 Reviving Melody
Thanks Grey, that makes sense now. I did know about infinite mana, i just never really did anything with it, i always just milled or pumped up and swung with something if my mill combo went away. What got me looking into this site was recently, i screwed up during sideboard, long story short, i literally didnt have a win con left in my deck after turn two commune with the gods and chucking two altars in the trash... got me to realize, i really need to learn the standard card list better and learn what other ways to play the deck are.
In my experience against UB control, Game 1 is a coinflip on assembling enough copies of Ascendancy to fight through counters. They do tend to have a lot of dead spells like Hero's Downfall and Bile Blight stranded in their hand. But after sideboarding I've been hit with Negate, Silumgar's Scorn and Nullify even. I've also lost when they get 2+ discard spells early and land an early Ashiok which forces me to combo earlier than I would like and I get ultimate'd out of the game. But maybe I've just played the combo so much that the control players in my area know how to play the matchup.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
As for my version of the deck, I have been thinking a lot about it and have come to the following list given what I expect to be the meta for the first week or two after the pro tour.
3 Mystic Monastery
4 Mana Confluence
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Mystery
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Briber's Purse
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Swan Song
2 Twinflame
1 Ojutai's Command
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Secure the Wastes
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
1 Den Protector
4 Anticipate
4 Dig Through Time
4 Retraction Helix
4 Taigam's Scheming
2 Negate
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
1 Hooded Hydra
2 Seismic Rupture
1 Magma Spray
1 Surge of Righteousness
2 Seeker of the Way
2 Silkwrap
I added token generators again as a response to Foul-Tongue Invocation and Secure the Wastes seemed like the best one for the deck, compared to the other instant speed alternative being Raise the Alarm which would cost the same to counter an edict effect but is considerably . I figured I would take everyone's word for how bad the UB control and Red Aggro matchups were so I adjusted my sideboard to answer those decks better. Hooded Hydra and the two Negates seemed better than the 2 Icefall Regents and the extra Ojutai's command that I had there and the Hornet Nests almost never did anything. I will consider other things like Kiora, the Crashing Wave in the Hydra slot but overall this seems well positioned for the current meta of UB, RDW, and RG dragons. I like the idea of devoting half of my sideboard to control and half to aggro because almost all cards for the extreme control/aggro decks are still fairly well positioned against the sort-of-controlling/sort-of-aggro decks so we are not particularly soft to the rest of the meta by doing this. Also, please tell me if you think that I am overlooking a significant part of the meta in this analysis and how you would change the deck if you think I am, as I would really like to optimize the list by SCG Providence. Thank you all for the help!
gxmiter, the manabase and deck numbers still confuse me. It's like we don't have enough and too many slots all at once. Let me know if you figure it out, ha ha.
Since the Gxx matchups are quite easy (GW Devotion, Abzan and maybe Temur or RG Monsters), I think that the SB should be geared to fight Rxx decks (Sligh, Jeskai, Boros?) and UB Control. This deck can play any nonblack card, so I ask myself:
-What cards or strategies beat Rxx decks and UB Control?
-What cards from those decks beat Jeskai Ascendancy?
This deck needs 11-12 SB cards (besides 4-3 Swan Song, a must if you ask me) to improve the bad matchups. Ojutai's Command still gives me hope: it may provide some air against aggressive decks and being an instant 2x1 is good vs Control.
@tw0as: If you are looking forward to the GP Buenos Aires, the meta is usually aggro and midrange (day 1). I wouldn't expect UB Control to be popular.
About the SB strategy i'm looking (besides the 3/4 swan songs) to use 60% slots in UB and the others in agro matchups, after all we just need to slow them a little to combo off . Still working in the idea of a transformational sideboard , but i cant find somthing that convices me
So that's like 7 cards for Control, 4/5 vs Aggro, and 4/3 Swan Song. These are the cards I like right now for the SB:
-Ojutai's Command, as mentioned before: 4 life and returning a burned dude vs Rxx, or return+draw vs UB Control.
-Nyx-Fleeced Ram: can buy some time, gain some life, and still combo off with Helix+Purse.
-Arashin Cleric: immediate lifegain and can kill a creature in combat, but smaller butt.
-Seismic Rupture/Arc Lightning: to sweep the board, maybe Rupture is the better one.
-Surrak Dragonclaw: Flash + can't be countered against Control, and can be a decent clock.
-Pearl Lake Ancient: similar to Surrak, but also has pseudo-hexproof. I don't like it that much...
-Prognostic Sphinx: Hard to kill and block, and the scry is really nice.
-Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Narset Transcendent: against control, they are "cheap" PWs that can generate some CA and even ult in 3 turns.
-Xenagos, the Reveler: Satyr Bitterblossom that can be Downfalled, an aggressive aproach.
-Dragonlord Ojutai: nice protection, and the free Anticipate is better than scry 3 most of the times. Maybe an upgrade to Sphinx.
Regarding the Control matchup, I think that the idea is having things they can't answer/don't have the right answer in hand. Against aggro, surviving is key.
I would like some suggestions or comments
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
I didn't take a whole lot of notes but here's some quick thoughts:
-I liked your manabase. It was consistent and I even won a game because I had the white mana off a Monastery to put a Caryatid into my graveyard off a Taigam's Scheming then I used Ojutai's Command to counter my opponent's Siege Rhino and bring back Caryatid, combo off next turn.
-Dragonlord Ojutai shocked one of my opponents. He even tried to Hero's Downfall the Ojutai when I had Ascendancy out and plenty of mana untapped. I played a Secure the Wastes for one and he was like, "Oh......."
-Kinda random but I actually lost to a budget mono white Heroic deck. Turns out T2 Akroan Skyguard, T3 Artful Maneuver, T4 Rebound + another Artful Maneuver kills pretty fast.
-I played against the Rg aggro deck splashing for Atarka's Command. That makes the matchup a lot tougher, we can't block any 2 power guys with Caryatid for fear of the Command and Ojutai's Command lifegain can be neutralized. I even had Seismic Rupture for two Eidolons but taking 4 points to do so let him burn me despite the fact that I had a Swan Swong for one of three Stokes.
-Seeker of the Way won me a game against Jeskai Tokens. I gained 4 life which was the exact breathing room against a third Stoke the Flames.
I agree with everyone that we should slant our SB against UB control and red aggro. We have fairly good matchups against Sultai and Abzan matchups. As far as what to sideboard, it comes down to personal preference. I am becoming a believer in Dragonlord Ojutai at this point, as it definitely provides an opportunity to switch to a more of a control role with a strong finisher.
4 Mana Confluence
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mistery
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Briber's Purse
1 Altar of the Brood
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
2 Voyaging Satyr
1 Den Protector
2 Dig Trough Time
4 Retraction Helix
2 Twinflame
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Commune With the Gods
This are the "staples" in my sideboard, still working on the remaining slots.
3 Swan Song
1 Den Protector
1 Reviving Melody
I don't think there's anything wrong with cutting Dragon Mantles and going with Nyx Fleece Ram. It makes the deck more consistent and you know what you have to dig for. At GP Memphis I won a couple of games with just Nyx Fleece Ram.
If you don't mind me asking, how would you change your list after the Pro Tour? And what's your sideboarding plan against mono-red and UB control, since those tend to be our toughest matchups?